Midfield - who gets the job?

[Avinalaff]

Not to be confused with the main line up thread.

 

If we are to have a good season, we need the right recipe in midfield, but who do we play?

 

Do we keep doing what we have done recently, or do we make way for new blood?

 

It wasn't long ago (2 seasons ago) that we were being compared to Barcelona, such was our football, but that all seems a long time ago now.

 

Merson, who was watching from the comfort of the Sky studio, was assertive in his claims that Everton under David Moyes are building a really competent footballing side.

The former Arsenal and Villa midfielder said: ”The first 15 minutes was like watching Arsenal and Barcelona, they were absolutely outstanding”.

“They were passing and moving with Pienaar coming off the wing. Blackburn couldn’t get near them. When they’re all fit, you look at that team and it’s a decent, decent team. Some of the football they played was outstanding.”

 

We went on to win the match 3-2, and this was the team that day in April 2010:

 

Everton

• 24 Howard
  
• 02 Hibbert (Yakubu 78)
  
• 03 Baines
  
• 06 Jagielka
  
• 15 Distinyellow card
  
• 18 Neville
  
• 07 Bilyaletdinov (Anichebe 69)
  
• 10 Artetayellow card
  
• 17 Cahill
  
• 20 Pienaar
  
• 08 Saha (Yobo 90+2)
  

 

When we were beaten 2-0 by Liverpool, (Nov 2010) but played them off the pitch, our team was:

 

Everton

• 24 Howard
  
• 02 Hibbert
  
• 03 Baines
  
• 04 Yobo (Neill 86)
  
• 05 Heitingayellow card
  
• 15 Distin
  
• 07 Bilyaletdinov
  
• 17 Cahill (Yakubu 82)
  
• 20 Pienaar
  
• 25 Fellaini
  
• 11 Jo (Saha 66)
  

It was the Liverpool game which kickstarted our whole season, as we had been dire up until that point.

 

When we outclassed City 2-0, (March 2010) our team was:.

 

Everton

• 24 Howard
  
• 03 Baines
  
• 05 Heitinga
  
• 15 Distin (Coleman 70)
  
• 18 Neville
  
• 07 Bilyaletdinov
  
• 09 Donovan (Baxter 90+1)
  
• 17 Cahill
  
• 20 Pienaar
  
• 25 Fellaini
  
• 08 Saha (Vaughan 84)
  

 

 

Take a look at the Arsenal match were we dominated only to concede a lucky equalizer late in the game:

 

Everton

• 24 Howard
  
• 03 Baines
  
• 05 Heitinga
  
• 18 Neville
  
• 23 Neill
  
• 09 Donovan (Bilyaletdinov 68)
  
• 17 Cahill
  
• 20 Pienaaryellow card
  
• 21 Osman
  
• 25 Fellaini
  
• 08 Saha (Vaughan 74)
  

 

What is noticeable about these matches 2 seasons ago is that midfielders Bilyaletdinov played in all, as did Cahill, but unfortunately so did Pienaar.

 

Notice how Moyes always used a substitute in or around the 70 minute mark?

 

So now, we are about to play our first match of the season, and we do not have Pienaar, who for me, was our best player at the time, so how do we line up in order to recreate the Barcelona-esque football that we were once recognised with?

 

It's all about our midfield, so who gets in, and who sits out?

 

We need to find what Pienaar gave us, if we are to get back to playing the wonderful football again, but ......

 

Even with Pienaar in the side, our goal ratio was rubbish, so we need to make sure our players 'shoot' and don't try to walk the ball into the net, as that was what we were doing when we were being accused of playing like Barcelona.

 

There is little point in playing some of the best football in years if we can't score goals. At present though, we still can't score goals, and we are no longer playing like Barcelona.

 

Our midfield options are as follows:

 

Bilyaletdinov

Cahill

Arteta

Fellaini

Osman

Rodwell

Coleman

Barkley

Heitinga

Neville

Anichebe

Gueye

 

I appreciate Anichebe, Gueye, and Heitinga and Neville aren't necessarily midfielders, but they are options.

 

Who is the first name on the sheet?

Who brings us great football?

Who brings us goals?

[Hafnia]

Im going to make the controversial point that IMO for the team to progress, we need to look at leaving Cahill out of the team. So one dimensional with no threat through the middle when he plays. Balls always looking to be crossed in, we need to mix the play up so much more, we have creativity with him in the middle.

 

I'm sorry it may offend, but in my opinion he should be used for the last 20 when needing to change things. Would sooner see Barkley in a 5 man midfield playing behind striker, he for me (even though its early days) has the lot, vision, technique, coupled with the ability to break up play and be box to box.

 

Cahill has been an awesome servant, but to move on we need to evolve. He still has a part to play, just not first 11.

[Steve_E]

Im going to make the controversial point that IMO for the team to progress, we need to look at leaving Cahill out of the team. So one dimensional with no threat through the middle when he plays. Balls always looking to be crossed in, we need to mix the play up so much more, we have creativity with him in the middle.

 

I'm sorry it may offend, but in my opinion he should be used for the last 20 when needing to change things. Would sooner see Barkley in a 5 man midfield playing behind striker, he for me (even though its early days) has the lot, vision, technique, coupled with the ability to break up play and be box to box.

 

Cahill has been an awesome servant, but to move on we need to evolve. He still has a part to play, just not first 11.

 

Agree. If we go 4-5-1, I want Fellaini holding, Osman next to him, Barkley in front of him, Arteta on the right and... someone on the left.

[FairWooney]

First name on the sheet for me is Fellaini.

 

Runs the show well at the back of the midfield.

 

Ideally with him there Neville and heitinga shouldn't have to be considered for a midfield slot, I don't feel Moyes will always make that the case though.

 

Arteta will of course be on the team sheet whenever fit, I'm not that impressed by him these days as he seems to lack the desire to push forward and make the killer balls required from someone in his postion. Look at Silva, Fabregas and Nasri for players that are doing the job required as a teams creative midfielder.

 

I'm hoping to see plenty of games for Rodwell and Barkley though Barkley MUST be played in the CENTRE not as in the case of all the friendlys on the wings. I'd prefer to see Arteta play on the wing if Barkley plays.

 

Coleman I'd like ot see playing all the time though happy for him to be moved to Right Back if Moyes feels comfortable with that.

 

--

 

I don't think any of them apart from Coleman have really shown they can bring us goals recently.

 

I think Ross will show he can once he gets playing and would be nice to see Rodwell and Arteta bring us goals and good football as well.

 

--

 

Basically a bit of potential in that midfield but need to get the most out of them and try to avoid fitting them into the wrong positions just to keep playing the Moyes 4-5-1.

[Peter H]

 

Agree. If we go 4-5-1, I want Fellaini holding, Osman next to him, Barkley in front of him, Arteta on the right and... someone on the left.

 

I want to believe that Bily can be that man on the left. I havent seen much to support it yet, but lets hope he comes good.

Otherwise id say put Rodwell next to Felli and use Osman on the left.

 

Or Barkley next to Felli and Cahill infront, with Osman on the left.

[Hafnia]

 

Agree. If we go 4-5-1, I want Fellaini holding, Osman next to him, Barkley in front of him, Arteta on the right and... someone on the left.

 

 

Ive gotta say, if the future for arteta is on the flanks I would sell him. £70k a week contract was given due to his perfromances in the middle of the park, where he can use his undoubted talents to run the game. If he can't do it there then get rid. Put the £10m to work on a winger like Holtby and save on wages, the centre looks strong with Rodwell, Felli, Barkley and Ossie.

 

Ideally a fully fit arteta will be in the middle with fellaini and barkely, I think Rodders future is at centre half, doesnt seem to have the drive to play advanced as midfield. Be great to have a ball playing centre half who can dring it out of defence. Moyes needs to look at deploting him there, heis lost in the middle and doesnt dictate play enough.

[Avinalaff]

Easy formula. Just pick a different name from each list lol.

 

Who can play in the middle? Fellaini, Osman, Arteta, Barkley, Bilyaletdinov, Rodwell, Cahill

Who can play on the left? Osman, Bilyaletdinov, Anichebe, Gueye. Arteta.

Who can play on the right? Osman, Coleman, Arteta, Barkley, Anichebe, Cahill, Bilyaletdinov

Who can play off the striker? Cahill, Osman, Bilyaletdinov, Fellaini.

Who can play defensive? Fellaini, Arteta, Rodwell, Neville, Heitinga.

Edited August 16, 2011 by Avinalaff

[Lowensda]

Im going to make the controversial point that IMO for the team to progress, we need to look at leaving Cahill out of the team. So one dimensional with no threat through the middle when he plays. Balls always looking to be crossed in, we need to mix the play up so much more, we have creativity with him in the middle.

 

I'm sorry it may offend, but in my opinion he should be used for the last 20 when needing to change things. Would sooner see Barkley in a 5 man midfield playing behind striker, he for me (even though its early days) has the lot, vision, technique, coupled with the ability to break up play and be box to box.

 

Cahill has been an awesome servant, but to move on we need to evolve. He still has a part to play, just not first 11.

 

Not controversial at all. IMO, that's a given! We try to play to his strengths, but it doesn't aid the rest of the team's style at all.

 

For me fellaini is the only one who warrants a guaranteed start.

[marcopaulo]

rodwell isn't good enough at marking or tackling to be a centre half for me..shit in the air for his size too..he needs some confidence and do what he did when he scored against utd..he can do it he just needs to remember he can..as for the cahill point he's gettin on now..he's a grafter and maybe what we need in certain games but i agree the majority of his appearances should be from the bench from now on

[FairWooney]

I agree with the Cahill statement.

 

I think he still has a place, especially in the big games where he is great at picking up important goals in games where were not getting many chances.

 

But in games such as Home to QPR and other teams we expect to be beating we should be trying something different and leaving Cahill on the bench. If all else fails send him on and sling balls into the box as Plan B.

[Lowensda]

Cahill should be used in the same way as Park is used for United. Big games, lots of passion, nitty gritty, goals from set-pieces....

[Steve_E]

 

 

Ive gotta say, if the future for arteta is on the flanks I would sell him. £70k a week contract was given due to his perfromances in the middle of the park, where he can use his undoubted talents to run the game. If he can't do it there then get rid. Put the £10m to work on a winger like Holtby and save on wages, the centre looks strong with Rodwell, Felli, Barkley and Ossie.

 

Ideally a fully fit arteta will be in the middle with fellaini and barkely, I think Rodders future is at centre half, doesnt seem to have the drive to play advanced as midfield. Be great to have a ball playing centre half who can dring it out of defence. Moyes needs to look at deploting him there, heis lost in the middle and doesnt dictate play enough.

 

Arteta has never had better stats than when he played on the right. If he can play well there and get goals and assists then I don't see the problem. Though I do agree we should sell if we get a 10 mil offer.

[Romey 1878]

I've been saying Cahill shouldn't be an automatic starter for about 2 years now.

 

My midfield against QPR would be -

 

 

Arteta Osman Fellaini Barkley

 

 

A 4 man midfield because I'd have 2 strikers - Becks and Saha.

 

This is QPR, at Goodison Park, not United at Old Trafford.

 

 

Bah, didn't read the OP properly, so didn't realise it was a general question about the midfield (i.e. when they're all fit).

 

Well, I've got an idea and it may seem very out there. But, wouldn't it be nice if we tweaked our midfield to suit what opposition we are playing rather than send out the same players, in the the exact same roles, with the same "tactics" each and every week regardless of the opposition?

 

I mean, maybe sometimes a 4 man midfield is suitable and sometimes maybe 5 is more appropriate. Or in one game Barkley playing in the hole might be more suitable but in another he might be better deployed on the left.

 

You know, it'd be nice if Moyes and Round put some thought into our line-ups and tactics, because, IMO, it's no wonder we've been well and truly found out in recent seasons and teams have found it easy to shut us down. We are ridiculously predictable.

Edited August 16, 2011 by Romey 1878

[Louis]

Why have you opted to put Barkley on the right?

[Romey 1878]

Why have you opted to put Barkley on the right?

 

 

I've put him on the left, shold have made that clear and it would have been if I'd put the whole team out. Sorry about that.

[Louis]

I wasn't drawing attention to what I thought was a mistake, I was curious.

 

I think he (Barkley) played in the middle against Philadelphia, on the right hand side against D.C United and on the left against Bohemian so it's clear he's pretty versatile.

 

I agree with you regarding Cahill but I'd be tempted to use him as a partner for the front man, presumably a fit Saha.

[Romey 1878]

I wasn't drawing attention to what I thought was a mistake, I was curious.

 

I think he (Barkley) played in the middle against Philadelphia, on the right hand side against D.C United and on the left against Bohemian so it's clear he's pretty versatile.

 

I agree with you regarding Cahill but I'd be tempted to use him as a partner for the front man, presumably a fit Saha.

 

 

Barkley could play on the right as well like, depending on what you're looking for from him during the game. That's my point of changing things for games tbh.

 

I don't think Cahill and Saha work well together myself. I feel like they both do the same thing, i.e. drop deep, so there's nothing in the box.

[Steve_E]

I don't think Cahill and Saha work well together myself. I feel like they both do the same thing, i.e. drop deep, so there's nothing in the box.

 

I agree with this. If Saha plays he's always going to drop deep. We need midfielders and wingers that will make runs and exploit the space he makes up front then. Cahill isn't that sort of player. In fact, we have very little of that type of players. Beckford is the only one really. As I've said before in the line up thread I'd prefer Saha and Beckford together as strikers and a diamond in midfield. It's not my favourite formation, but I do think it's what suits the players we have right now best. If we'd sell Jagielka and be able to get two direct wingers in, the Nani type, I'd love to see 4-3-3 in the middle with one holding and two more attacking midfielders.

[Hafnia]

I would play Barkley on the left, he appears two footed enough to be comfortable to use his left foot to cross with, and most certainly has the pace, control and feet to cut inside with his right foot. Wonder how long it will take for Moyes to put the brakes on any long range pop shots he may have....

 

Not to say he does, but with Arteta and Rodwell displaying that this is in their locker why not encourage it? How many goals do united get from long range shots where keeper has parried and follow ups netted? The likes of nani need no second invite to open up from 25 yards

[marcopaulo]

problem is saha would be in our area not theirs to follow up on shots

[SimonButtle]

problem is saha would be in our area not theirs to follow up on shots

you mean he would be fit to play? let alone follow up on shots, should be him and Beckford upfront imo

[bluemist]

If fitness was'nt an issue

 

Coleman..... Felli.....Ossie.....Arteta

 

Cahill

 

But because it is

 

Barkley........Felli.....Ossie......Arteta

 

Cahill

 

Pending on the opposition swap Ossie for Arteta

[Bailey]

Be warned, I am about to write a mini essay which I apologise for but its the one area we used to dominate so well in the games mentioned above, that has recently become so uneffective its unbelievable considering the talent available.

 

Firstly I would always start 4-5-1 when we are defending. We ALWAYS play our best football in that set up, because we get people behind the ball, and we push teams back by closing down aggressively. My problem with Moyes' sides recently is that when we attack we pretty much stay as a 4-5-1, possibly with Cahill bridging the gap to make it 4-4-1-1. A lot of the best sides in the world defend as a 4-5-1 but when they attack teams like Barca, R Madrid, Arsenal, Man Utd flood players forward, like we did back in the day. So many times in the last couple of seasons we have had one and maybe 2 people getting in the box and unless the midfielders gamble more often and get further forward then we will have trouble scoring.

 

In fact to highlight my point, look at some of the goals we scored in those games. Pienaar vs Arsnenal was because he cut in from his wing, and ran in behind the defence, Donovan against City (again cut in to the box where the ball was layed off), Rodwell vs Man Utd (burst forward from the midfield), All of Osmans (late in the season) unfortunately I cant remember more than that, but bar Cahill, how many other midfielders do we have that get in the box to score goals? Very few. We seem very happy to set up shop outside their 18yard box and pop it around. I would guess that Baines probably gets in the box more than out central midfielders do.

 

With regards to Bily I would suggest that the main reason we played well in them games with him involved is because he does like to get forward. He likes to move into the spaces around or beyond the striker, either scoring screamers like he did against Man Utd, or tap ins like he did against Philly in preseason. He might let himself down in most other areas but he does get forward and get goals. With more freedom to get forward, he could end up contributing a lot more than he does. On a similar note Donovan did so well for us because he also got forward more and cut in from the flank. He always made himself available for a pass and never passed up an opportunity to get in the box.

 

For the QPR game, I would definitely play the same set up as the Villareal game. I would have Fellaini siting deep in midfield on his own as he does so well, with Barklay & Rodwell given the license to get forward. On the wings I would have Osman & Arteta. i would prefer a genuine wide player, maybe a bit like Gueye who has more pace & spark or maybe Coleman who would at least raid forward all day long if you asked him to. The wingers should look to start wide and cut inside when the opportunity arises. We dont want the box to get overcrowded but if the ball is on one flank then the other wingers comes inside and gets involved (pretty standard stuff tbh).

 

For the bigger games I would still look to use Cahill, mainly because he is an absolute pest, providing that when we have the ball, he gets forward and supports the striker. Like Romey, Im not keen on the Saha/Cahill partnership, but as long as we can get Saha looking to get in behind (like the Chelsea game) then they can work well together. If they both drop short we end up having no-one up front and the move breaks down quicker than it begun.

 

Basically I just want to see a midfield that gets behind the ball, closes down quickly and keeps it shape when we are defending, but then pours forward in attack (bar Fellaini) with the wingers initially providing with (but looking to cut in) and the two central midfielders getting up to the striker and beyond. It needs athletic, hard working players but thats exactly what we have.

[Matt]

nice piece Bailey

[toffeeblue1987]

If fit Id go for:

 

Barkley Fellaini Rodwell Arteta

Cahill

Saha

 

I dont like leavinf coleman out or Ossie but Id love to give Barkley a run. But if not then Coleman or Ossie in for him.

Edited August 16, 2011 by toffeeblue1987

[Matt]

oh, and id go with a kinda Arsenal layout:

 

Felli Rodders

Coleman Barkely/Ossie Arteta

 

Though, truthfully, 352 with the squad we have would work well

[marcopaulo]

crackin post bailey

[marcus jones]

Any body thought that it is the management who dictates how many get forward on an attack? Moyes would blow a fuse if there was more than three players in the box except for corners!

[bluehuddo]

Not having seen Barkley play in preseason. Would he work out on the left? A lot of people have been comparing him to a Gerrard type of player and the last time Gerrard played on the left with Baines behind him, Baines was left out to dry which most likely cost him the chance to go to a World Cup. With ossie or Arteta out there, we know they will get back to help Baines but can Barkley do that??

[Avinalaff]

If we could play our players, and know that they would play at their best, then my team would have the following players in the middle:

 

Bilyaletdinov

Arteta

Fellaini

Osman

Heitinga

 

Coleman eventually at Right Back, but not yet.

 

Possibly make Osman captain as he isn't scared of kicking players up the ass.

 

Not seen enough of Barkley and Gueye to include them.

 

Cahill would be rotated as a 2nd striker / impact sub as and when needed and Rodwell would eventually replace Heitinga once he is good enough, with Heitings dropping back into a flooating role between defence and defensive mid, depending on who has the ball.