Starting Again

[Dalziel Kane]

Is that you Hickson ? I thought you were a great player and club servant..

[Guest]

I think we may have to look along the lines of can we stomach two or three seasons of mid-table to end up back were we belong? I think we missed a huge trick not signing Butland for £3.5 mill who could be our first choice for the next fifteen years. To have an eighteen year old kid on the bench today was a joke. Build the team around Baines,Jags,Mirallas as the more experienced players. Intergrate Stones,Kennedy,Lundstram,Barkley,Duffy,Garbutt,McAleny more prominately. Felli will go hopefully for £25 mill plus whch would allow us to get two midfielders and a striker. Listen to offers for Osman,Jonny even if Harry wants another go at Peanuts for QPR then so be it. Id release Neville because with all the will in the world he shoild not be taking a place in the squad never mind a starting place over Barkley

[c1982]

I fully expect Moyes, Fellaini and Heitinga to leave this summer. I don't think we'll see much more of Neville in a playing role and maybe Distin will get less game time. I think there are big changes up coming at EFC and to be honest I think we're ready for a lot of these. With this season not exactly going as planned a fresh approach would be welcome in my opinion.

 

Should Moyes go, then he parts after an impressive (without the final rewards) 11years in a footballing environment where money rules of which we have lacked. So I, for one, will be praising his efforts and reflecting on an era in EFCs history that could have been so so bad under the wrong stewardship.

[Blueherts]

First off: Replace 90% of the backroom staff. The physios, the coaches, the finance and marketing teams.

 

Next: Execute MOST of the board of directors. (Y'know....the really really rich ones who never ever put their hand in their pockets)

 

Then: Excluding the following - the true blues .....bainsy/ossie/hibbo and the future coaches...howard/distin. SELL EVERYBODY in the first team.

 

Promote - Stones, Barkley, McAleny, Duffy and Kennedy.

 

Use whatever finance we have after payin g off the debt into rebuilding goodison (whatever the board says, it is far from impossible)

 

IF we go down, we go down......I'd rather have hope for the future, that continually dream about our past.

[Zoo]

With all due respect I think that's a bad way to go. I'd rather stay in the Premier League and dream about Europe once in a while than go down to the lower leagues. Staying in the top flight is any teams first priority.

[Dalziel Kane]

If Everton were relegated - and no supporter should ever wish such a thing, simply to put things in some order or start again or however they see it - it could well take a few seasons to get back to the EPL. We're all aware of how difficult it can be against lower league opposition from previous experiences so what if we were playing the same caliber of opposition week in week out ? There would be no instant first time return I'm sure of it. The championship league is damn difficult to get out of and I don't even like to think about the possibility of Everton playing second division soccer. We've come within a whisker of it in the last 20 years, but have moved on from those dark days. It's safe to assume there will be no repeat of what occured before, anytime soon. If we are to start again for the benefit of this thread, then let's do it as a top status club.

[Blueherts]

Nobody wants to go down granted, but we can't change anything without sorting out the ground. To do this we need to clear the debt. I see no other choice than to take a risk. or do we just continue on as we are until the buildings inspector condemns goodison?

[Bill]

Everton 0 - 3 Wigan, God almighty what an embarassing display, a conference team could have beaten us.

Time to introduce new blood into the team, some of the players are taking it for granted that they will get selected no matter what.

We are not going to be relegated, and we wont finish 5th so give some others a chance and hope Moyes has the bottle to go 4-4-2.

--------------- Howard -------------

Stones -- Jagielka -- Distin -- Baines

Mirallas -- Gibson -- Barkley -- Oviedo

---------- Jelavic -- Anichebe --------------

Duffy to be 1st sub and Velios should be given a go, and Kennedy.

Heitinga and Fellaini should be offloaded in the summer, then we can buy two solid replacements with the money.

Edited March 11, 2013 by Bill

[Zoo]

Why the hell is everyone kicking up a fuss about Stones?! Nobody has even seen him play yet Moyes gets bashed for not playing him. Get a grip.

 

(not aimed at you Bill).

[Sideliner]

Not quite what I was getting at, but please continue.

 

It's a debate, it was an option. At this present time we have an ever aging squad, with ever rising wages and we are forever rising up the table, right? Wrong. We are always going to be in and around the 5th/8th mark, especially with the squad we have. But we're not gaining anything from hovering underneath the perennial glass ceiling.

 

If we want to push on, or if you want EVerton to push on (which might be the more important of the two), we have to try something different.

 

It's not about the quick fix (i'm pretty sure I mentioned that) so it's certainly not a 'knee jerk' reaction to "a bad run of games" as you put it. This is a reaction to something 'better' than where we are now.

 

Everton are falling slowly and surely into more debt, racking up the red, until one day the financial infrastructure of the club buckles. How will we get out of this mess. Wait to find a Genius billion playboy philanthropist (courtesy of Tony Stark) to come in and spunk a load of money on has been's and 'egotistically, tiny willys' with little or no return on his investment, before pissing off to Asia or wherever, to shack up with some Lady Boy called Krystal and settling down on the island of Koh Hae with his pug and rediculous looking beachside mansion.

 

Or....(as we'll probably find out soon enough)

 

We start selling the big earners, those who don't warrant the giant paypackets (i.e. Heiting and Fellaini), pay off some of those debts and start raising the confidence and ability of our youngsters. So instead of sitting on the kids as a 'stop gap'...start a project. Start building a team. Start buying kids or youngsters who "fit the system". Who will eventually gel together and be something better than what we had before. Only then, can we really push on. We've seen in Europe over the last couple of years, footballing teams win games. They beat the 'big clubs'. They invest wisely and start creating winning ways.

 

With the money we save, on not burning, start investing in the club again. Into a stadium project? Into regenerating the local area. I know ArabMegaBucksBollox is loaded and yes, he's pretty much got unlimited funding but he's creating a project at City and there's no reason as to why we can't do it. Look for people who are actually capable of bringing in money through different revenues, not just reliant on future TV money all the time. Bigger and better sponsorship deals! Start investing a little in the worldwide market, start trying to infiltrate some of the nations that have more recently shown an interest in our club (Australia - Tim Cahill, USA - Howard, Donovan, Belgium - Fellaini, Mirallas). We can do it, if the people behind the scenes REALLY wanted it.

 

We will have to sell off our top players soon, it'll happen. It's not a case of 'if', it's a case of 'when'...and if its sooner, rather than later, I fucking hope it's the push the club needs to implement a bigger and better plan for the future.

 

I'm not being over the top and i'm not getting ahead of myself. It's a marathon, not a sprint. If we keep sprinting financially and continue to just 'tread water', there will come a time that we'll tire and drown. It's time to slow down, build up momentum and smash through that finish line which is the league's glass ceiling. It'll take tears and tantrums. It'll be frustrating but excited. It'll make you love and loathe Everton FC all at the same time but hopefully and I'm being hopeful...we'll get our rewards.

 

Great speech there mate - wish we had more of your sort with similar long term vision -

hopefully the penny will drop before it is too late

[Bill]

Ten , not aimed at me I know, but why pay millions for players who never get selected. Stones, Kennedy, Oviedo, Plus the lads who are on the fringe Barkley, Vellios, and Duffy. Moyes needs to change things around because some players are "too Comfortable" they should be made to fight for their place.

[pete0]

Why the hell is everyone kicking up a fuss about Stones?! Nobody has even seen him play yet Moyes gets bashed for not playing him. Get a grip.

 

(not aimed at you Bill).

Not to play Stones in particular, but to play any rb at the club ahead of his jigsaw Jags option. Bad enough he doesn't give the kids enough opportunities, but to go out of his way by playing pros in the wrong position is taking the biscuit.

[Lowensda]

I agree Bill. As an example, if Baines were to get injured, DM would rather have another CB to take his place (Distin) than give an opportunity to one of the new additions or youth (Oviedo/Garbutt).

[MikeO]

I agree Bill. As an example, if Baines were to get injured, DM would rather have another CB to take his place (Distin) than give an opportunity to one of the new additions or youth (Oviedo/Garbutt).

 

As a historical example, Lescott being preferred to Baines at left back when Baines joined.

[Avinalaff]

I agree Bill. As an example, if Baines were to get injured, DM would rather have another CB to take his place (Distin) than give an opportunity to one of the new additions or youth (Oviedo/Garbutt).

Moyes buys senior players that are versatile, with their ability to fall into different positions considered.

[pete0]

Moyes buys senior players that are versatile, with their ability to fall into different positions considered.

f the players were truly picked because they are versatile Moyes should have been using them in different positions for tactical reasons, instead of only when forced by injuries.

Hypothetical, if you was a youngster at the club and Jagielka (rb) or Neville (cm) got picked over you would you want to stay at the club? Take into consideration players like Vellios proving you can't impress enough from the reserves to get a game either.

[Avinalaff]

f the players were truly picked because they are versatile Moyes should have been using them in different positions for tactical reasons, instead of only when forced by injuries.

Hypothetical, if you was a youngster at the club and Jagielka (rb) or Neville (cm) got picked over you would you want to stay at the club? Take into consideration players like Vellios proving you can't impress enough from the reserves to get a game either.

 

Moyes has no money.

 

Isn't it time fans considered this before compiling their argument?

 

If Baines gets injured, we have Oviedo. Rather than leave Oviedo to rot until the day comes when Baines 'does' get injured, he occasionally gets utilised in midfield. Why ? Because we don't have money to buy cover for both, and our younger players are not ready, which is why they're on loan, so they can get all the help in the world to come to fruition.

 

The first 11 is not a place for breaking new talent in.

[pete0]

Moyes has no money.

 

Isn't it time fans considered this before compiling their argument?

 

If Baines gets injured, we have Oviedo. Rather than leave Oviedo to rot until the day comes when Baines 'does' get injured, he occasionally gets utilised in midfield. Why ? Because we don't have money to buy cover for both, and our younger players are not ready, which is why they're on loan, so they can get all the help in the world to come to fruition.

 

The first 11 is not a place for breaking new talent in.

Why do you think they're not ready?

Us not having money is exactly why we should be using the youngsters, it would not only benefit us from them getting better in the long run from them gaining experience, but also make us more attractive to other kids who want a chance. Playing a youth would also give the seniors a kick up the jacksy too win-win. From what little I have, they looked ready to me. Duffy looked competent enough and for some reason has got less game time this year, same for Vellios. McAleny had a cameo late on v Arsenal and his curling shot was one of the main highlights for us that game, disappeared since.

The first 11 is exactly where they should be blooded in, look at all the top sides bar Chelsea. The majority of their games they have a youth in or come on. Utd won the league with kids, exceptional kids, but with a chance we could have our very own golden era.

Edited March 11, 2013 by pete0

[Lowensda]

 

Ten , not aimed at me I know, but why pay millions for players who never get selected. Stones, Kennedy, Oviedo, Plus the lads who are on the fringe Barkley, Vellios, and Duffy. Moyes needs to change things around because some players are "too Comfortable" they should be made to fight for their place.

Just re-read it. You meant Zoo, not me?

[Bill]

Just re-read it. You meant Zoo, not me?

 

 

Yeah sorry ten, my bad.

[Bailey]

Just thought I would bump this thread a little based on some of the things I have read today about German football and also the way the FA are trying to implement changes.

 

The first thing to note is the way the clubs are owned with the fans owning the majority share. German clubs dont have Sheiks, Oil barons, Chinese businessmen and Indian chicken company's running their clubs as play things who either rip out the soul of the club or sack their managers every time they lose a game. German clubs are run with stability in mind and the future of every club is paramount. Wages are generally much lower, a large percentage of players are home grown and in a lot of the clubs, a core of players are from the local area and have gained an education with the club. They dont cast off those not good enough to be players and leave them qualificationless with no prospects, they school them well to get qualifications and put back into the local community. Ticket costs are less, attendances are high and the crowd also seem much noisier and supportive than you get in your average game over here.

 

The German FA have put a lot of the structure in place themselves but the clubs also put a lot of money and time into their academies, from hiring highly qualified staff and creating technical intelligent players instead of physical meat heads.

 

After reading a couple of articles about the English FA it looks like they are trying to implement something similar, although the clubs themselves arent exactly being supportive. We actually have a chance to get ahead of the game and really make the most out of our already good youth academies. It actually looks like Villa have already taken some form of interest in developing their players this way and sooner or later all clubs will spending as much money and time as the Bundesliga clubs.

 

Moyes has started our own mini version of this since he has been here and whilst a couple of players have played for the first team, I dont think any of them have really come through as many at the club would have expected them to when they were 16-18. With the foundations Moyes has put in place we are probably in as good of a shape as we have ever been to start leading the revolution of the club and in some ways the league. We dont have the finances to sustain the big spending on transfer fee's and wages and in truth I wouldnt want our club to fall into the hands of a Sheikh, Oligarch or dodgy businessman. I think we have to take a long look at sustaining ourselves and these German clubs have shown that it can be done successfully.

 

I honestly dont see it ever happening because our board members arent exactly the strongest at planning ahead but change will come eventually and it is better to be leading the charge rather than playing catch up.