Brett Angel Posted October 14, 2013 Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 Yes, but we need to keep pace with everyone else. The only way that can be done is investment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 14, 2013 Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 Yes, but we need to keep pace with everyone else. The only way that can be done is investment. Not true. Like I said, money doesnt guarantee success (see Sunderland as the latest example of a team with plenty who are looking at extinction, if they go down), nor does it guarantee keeping pace (see Norwich, Villa, Liverpool etc who have invested many millions more than we have). We have kept pace for years without major investment, and we will continue to do so. Having a solid foundation is the key thing, and we are so close to that. These foundations we have been the basis of our relative success so far; hard work, honesty, spirit. Hell, we broke the top 4 with a near Championship level team because of these attributes, finishing higher than the then European champions of multi-million sellouts. Money helps, but its not the base on which to build. If potential investors want to come in and address the 2 key, final points to set the foundations (stadium, debt clearance) and then invest in the team, great. But if they change the name of the club at the same time, we might as well have all wandered down the M62 and picked a slightly different coloured shirt on now and spare ourselves the wait because we will lose everything we stand for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Angel Posted October 14, 2013 Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 Agree to disagree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 14, 2013 Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 Agree to disagree fair enough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Angel Posted October 14, 2013 Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 The reason why your argument is flawed is because man city spurs Chelsea and even Newcastle for that matter have all had money thrown at them and have never looked back.....you say money isn't the answer whilst making an example of such teams as Norwich and sunderland. Try looking into whom they have trusted with this fortune and it may answer the question as to why success has not followed wealth.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Angel Posted October 14, 2013 Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 .....by the way, newcastle was an example based on the season they finished 5th Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoo Posted October 14, 2013 Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 I'm taking a long hiatus from this forum but pop in every now and then to see what's going on. I see Brett is still posting the same shite he always does about how the club is run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Angel Posted October 14, 2013 Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 Thanks zoo....i love a good following! :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted October 14, 2013 Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 I'm taking a long hiatus from this forum Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 14, 2013 Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 (edited) The reason why your argument is flawed is because man city spurs Chelsea and even Newcastle for that matter have all had money thrown at them and have never looked back.....you say money isn't the answer whilst making an example of such teams as Norwich and sunderland. Try looking into whom they have trusted with this fortune and it may answer the question as to why success has not followed wealth.... I said it didn't guarantee success. I said it helps .....by the way, newcastle was an example based on the season they finished 5th that the season before or after they got relegated then nearly got relegated again? If you want to be a Newcastle, City or Chelsea that's up to you. Personally I can't stand their false sense of grandeur, there unfounded belief that they're big teams and delusions and wouldn't want to have Everton seen in that way. But, each to their own. I understand the attraction of a quick win, I just think success is more meaningful if it's earned rather than bought. Like you said though, agree to disagree Edited October 14, 2013 by Matt Bailey 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted October 14, 2013 Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 Why? He's exploring his sexuality . Bailey, Matt and Sibdane 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted October 14, 2013 Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 I agree with you Matt. One of the things I love about the club is its history and traditions. The fact that (in my lifetime anyway) we have had to fight for everything we have got, we try and do the 'right' things instead of the most profitable and commercial (excluding the badge!). The club does need commercialism but it needs into be introduced properly and conscientiously. I dont have too many issues with playing at the 'Chang Goodison Park' (you get what I mean), but change the name of the club, the traditional colours or anything as established as that you we might as well support a different club because it wont be Everton anymore. Matt and Sibdane 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Angel Posted October 14, 2013 Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 It wouldnt be bought would it? If we already have the foundations.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted October 14, 2013 Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 He's exploring his sexuality . I blame the laces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted October 14, 2013 Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 OK I will say it. This article is a load of Bull Sibdane 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pearso Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 I'm quite torn on this. Whilst I hate how Manchester City and Chelsea have risen to the top purely through splashing money everywhere, the chance to see us competing for the title as a result of greater investment is something I can't deny I'd like to see. As long as there is no change to the core of the club, i.e the name and the colours, I think I'd be okay with it. The moment we're changed to 'Liverpool Red Bulls', or 'Red Bull Everton' though, I'm out. I've given far too much shit to my Manchester City-supporting best friend about his fake club's success being built on nothing but money and greedy players to have my beloved Everton go down the same road. Then I ask myself the question what would the difference be if Red Bull delivered Everton a title? Nah fuck it, I like supporting the under dog. Red Bull can stick it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 What about RB Everton? We could pretend that it stands for Royal Blue Its an interesting question though. How far should the club go to get a massive endless wad of cash, great players and success? What would be selling Evertons soul? I agree that changing the kit colour is going to far but I believe the club soul is so much deeper than the name Everton. As long as the name Everton is in there somewhere. RB Everton would be a compromise in my books. I could live with it if it ment that we never had to sell to buy. (For economic reasons) A womens club in Sweden called Malmö was bought by a skincare company and is now called LdB Malmö. Lots of fuss when it happened but they have forgotten all of that moaning after winning the title several times in the last few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 Also love a good Jaegermeister and Red Bull... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 What about RB Everton? We could pretend that it stands for Royal Blue Its an interesting question though. How far should the club go to get a massive endless wad of cash, great players and success? What would be selling Evertons soul? I agree that changing the kit colour is going to far but I believe the club soul is so much deeper than the name Everton. As long as the name Everton is in there somewhere. RB Everton would be a compromise in my books. I could live with it if it ment that we never had to sell to buy. (For economic reasons) A womens club in Sweden called Malmö was bought by a skincare company and is now called LdB Malmö. Lots of fuss when it happened but they have forgotten all of that moaning after winning the title several times in the last few years. alright then, Jeremy. Name isnt that important. Bailey 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 But we'd have to change out badge again...!? And that's a silly example Sally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 In the words of Jim Morrison when asked to change "girl we couldn't get much higher":- "Why don't you change your name to ... Sidney or Irving Manzarek?"It's just a word. right on Jim!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 (edited) But we'd have to change out badge again...!? And that's a silly example Sally. Perfectly good example, assuming youre talking to me, Agnes. But its harder to relate to the correct object/person when you change the name of something. Everything you knew about said object/person is then changed, and all the history linked is no longer relevant, since the new name represents a new entity (or not, you just dont know). A name is not just a word - its a label that defines something (whether that be a person, object or a club) and is in turn is defined by that somethings history, actions and presence. Change the label, you change the definition and with that create something new. Edited October 15, 2013 by Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 Bah Snickers :shaking fist: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 Bah Snickers :shaking fist: the ingrediants ain't changed though... and most kids won't know what a marathon was. But you know what, I didn't even like that changing. The ingrediants change every year in a football club - players come and go but the name will and should always be the same. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 the ingrediants ain't changed though... and most kids won't know what a marathon was. But you know what, I didn't even like that changing. The ingrediants change every year in a football club - players come and go but the name will and should always be the same. There have been huge brand name changes in recent times, many very successful. I'd like us to stay as we are, but if it was a choice between administration or change of name, I think I'd be willing to listen. Sibdane 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 There have been huge brand name changes in recent times, many very successful. I'd like us to stay as we are, but if it was a choice between administration or change of name, I think I'd be willing to listen. I think you probably end up with a name change after administration anyway... but to be a marketed name would not sit right with me. We would be by far the most prestigous club to sell out like that. Bayer Leverkusen (always been a club named after company), Airbus (the same), SV Austria Salzburg to Red Bull Salzburg (they had previously changed name to sponsors), the New York Red Bulls only started in 2006 from the Metrostars who were founded in 1997. Just a big NO from me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 I'm okay with the logo being on the shirt somewhere, but not changing the name one bit. I also can't stand the idea of changing to the color red. However, I think a compromise could be reached and the injection of cash would be great for our club. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 I'm okay with the logo being on the shirt somewhere, but not changing the name one bit. I also can't stand the idea of changing to the color red. However, I think a compromise could be reached and the injection of cash would be great for our club. They'd be more likely to want us to change to blue and silver quarters I'd have thought, Bristol Rovers style.... .....with the Red Bull logo in the middle. That'd be less of a jump than red.....but probably still a step too far for some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 (edited) They'd be more likely to want us to change to blue and silver quarters I'd have thought, Bristol Rovers style.... .....with the Red Bull logo in the middle. That'd be less of a jump than red.....but probably still a step too far for some. fucking too right. I dont care if it looks like one of the kits we initially had 100+ years ago, just no. We play in a solid blue shirt, white shorts. If they want to put that pattern on the socks, fine, but leave the shirt and shorts alone. Im less fussed if they changed the away kit, design dependent of course Edited October 15, 2013 by Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 The picture didn't show up, but I googled it. I don't mind that design -- prefer the all blue -- but I could live with that. Here is the RBNY Jersey. I'd be okay with the second one (or something similar to it) if it was in our color blue and the red bull logo smaller in the middle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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