MC11 Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 (edited) I'm always intrigued by this. Basically every other sport seems to be rife with it... Boxing, cycling, athletics etc Just reading up on Fabio Cannavaro, he seems to have had a couple of brushes with the doping agencies through his career. Do you think that PED's are being used at the very top level? Barcelona and Madrid both linked to Fuerta labs in the past. I find it hard to believe it's not in the game tbh. Edited June 20, 2014 by MiguelCotto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikica Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 (edited) Did you decide to make this thread after reading the discussion in the Barca thread in the Everton forum? It's something which everyone knows is possible, but it seems taboo to talk about. This is a good thread. There's a video online of Cannavaro receiving an injection prior to a game. Apparently it's pretty controversial. Fuentes has said that if it all came out Spain and Barca would be stripped of their titles. Who knows how much is balls and how much is true. But Barca's pressing game has noticeably deteriorated over the last couple of years, and now with Spain...it's a conspiracy theory but I like conspiracy theories. People were claiming that Athletic Club were on EPO the season they made the EL final (back in 2012), The drugs testing in Spanish domestic football is pretty lax so these things are certainly possible but UEFA and FIFA are supposed to be more stringent I believe. Much of the talk is about blood doping or transfusions - if I recall correctly it's about boosting the number of red blood cells in blood as this apparently aids performance through increased endurance, stamina, resistance to injury etc. As I said in the other thread, it would be very beneficial for Barca and Spain's intense pressing game, and it would mean their touch wouldn't suffer as much later in games as the players wouldn't tire as quickly. I tend to think something is going on but not just in Spain, it's probably pan-European or global. I agree that it would be naive to not keep an open mind about it. Edited June 20, 2014 by Nikica Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 very interesting MC, in the states they have tons of random piss tests and are trying to weed out the doping in professional sports (football, baseball, basketball, etc.). i've often wondered what FIFA's stance on it was and if they piss test players and if they are allowed/not allowed to take different things (steroids, HGH). I"m looking forward to the comments on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted June 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 People say Ronaldo really looks after himself etc. but the images of his body prior to being at Madrid and now are very different Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikica Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 very interesting MC, in the states they have tons of random piss tests and are trying to weed out the doping in professional sports (football, baseball, basketball, etc.). i've often wondered what FIFA's stance on it was and if they piss test players and if they are allowed/not allowed to take different things (steroids, HGH). I"m looking forward to the comments on this one. There's all the stuff about Messi's growth hormone treatment, but that was intended to allow him to reach a nomral adult height and size. Let's be honest, if Ronaldo or Messi tested positive for something it would probably be covered up wouldn't it? Be it the Spanish FA, FIFA, UEFA. There is far too much money in the game and players like these are too commercially viable. Ditto Barcelona as a whole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikica Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 (edited) People say Ronaldo really looks after himself etc. but the images of his body prior to being at Madrid and now are very different I said this too (although I am referring to circa 2006). He seemed to go from scrawny to powerhouse very, very quickly - quicker than you would imagine possible through natural means. It just seems suspicious, but he's far from the only one. Also, how about Ronaldo and Messi going years without injury yet within the last year or so they've both suffered from injuries galore? Be it little niggles to something more serious. In the past they were bulletproof and never missed a game. There are a few people on here who are into fitness and bodybuilding (Newty and hafnia are two I believe). I know Newty is a pharmacist so he might well be clued up on certain drugs or prescriptions. It would be interesting to see what they think. Edited June 20, 2014 by Nikica Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 There are at least two PhDs contributing to these forums, so let's make it very clear that neither one (to my knowledge) enhanced the performance of their brains with drugs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirallas Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 There are at least two PhDs contributing to these forums, so let's make it very clear that neither one (to my knowledge) enhanced the performance of their brains with drugs! PhD's on TT? Who? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 I opened this thread expecting it to be a discussion about clever footballers . Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 PhD's on TT? Who? Well, one of them tops the prediction tournament leaderboard, and another currently leads the second round, so maybe all those years of study paid off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verreauxi Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 There are at least two PhDs contributing to these forums, so let's make it very clear that neither one (to my knowledge) enhanced the performance of their brains with drugs! Well certainly lots of late night coffee was a PED for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verreauxi Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 I was actually wondering where it would be regulated, if it was at all. For example, does FIFA have authority to order drug tests of any player in the WC, or is this the responsiblity of each country's governing football association? Each team has its own trainers/traning camp etc., and I wonder how much access, if any, FIFA "overseers" have to these camps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 Ah - context of my comments is lost now the thread has been retitled. Mind you, I did a Google search earlier because I'd never heard of drugs being referred to as PHDs before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted June 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 Ah - context of my comments is lost now the thread has been retitled. Mind you, I did a Google search earlier because I'd never heard of drugs being referred to as PHDs before. It was a mistake very late at night... I wasn't drunk but my brain was hurting at the time. Can you stop derailing the thread now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikica Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 Yeah I thought he meant PEDs as an acronym but I wasn't sure if PHD was somehow a term used for drug abuse in football as well as a term for a qualification. It felt a bit know-it-all to bring it up as it would have distracted from the conversation so I didn't bother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 Nik...I'm not a pharmacist my friend. I am a manager in that 'world' if you like (honest mistake!). I work alongside pharmacist every day. I am into going the gym though, really enjoy that, and enjoy reading about sports nutrition etc. Sooooo...Christiano Ronaldo...He was used as an example of a footballer potentially on performance drugs and/or steroids because 'he's built like a brick shit house' or what ever was said. He isn't built in any such way, believe me. What he is is very athletic, in good condition and carrying very little excess body fat and/or water. This makes his skin quite tight around his muscles. It gives an illusion of being more muscular than you actually are, or 'bigger'. His stats aren't that impressive but normal for a football player...6'1", 13 stone, 24.5" thighs, 13" biceps, chest 43" (that seems quite big but I think it's his lats, he does have big 'wings'!!!). Going to put myself out there now to show CR hasn't taken anything to improve his build...I am drug free and certainly not big...5'7" (on a good day!!!), 12st3lb, 24.5" thighs, 15" biceps, chest 42". Yes, I know it's cringe worthy to do this but it's just to prove a point. CR is just a great athlete with a great diet. It wouldn't have taken much to build him up, just a bit of strength training. It's long been thought that steroids, hgh and other enhancers are only used by bodybuilders. For a long time, these guys took a lot of flak. They generally denied it's use. Now they are more open about it. Because they see the new generation using it far too much. Enhancers are used, no doubt about it. In every sport. To what degree depends on the sport and it's money value, and it's home country. I doubt much in the way of anabolic steroids being used in football, but other methods maybe. Also, don't forget that footballers regularly get injected with cortisone for pain relief. Cortisone is a steroid. There are many types of steroids. This is a huge subject, and I'm trying to watch eastenders before going in the gym!!! Speak later!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted June 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 Nik...I'm not a pharmacist my friend. I am a manager in that 'world' if you like (honest mistake!). I work alongside pharmacist every day. I am into going the gym though, really enjoy that, and enjoy reading about sports nutrition etc. Sooooo...Christiano Ronaldo...He was used as an example of a footballer potentially on performance drugs and/or steroids because 'he's built like a brick shit house' or what ever was said. He isn't built in any such way, believe me. What he is is very athletic, in good condition and carrying very little excess body fat and/or water. This makes his skin quite tight around his muscles. It gives an illusion of being more muscular than you actually are, or 'bigger'. His stats aren't that impressive but normal for a football player...6'1", 13 stone, 24.5" thighs, 13" biceps, chest 43" (that seems quite big but I think it's his lats, he does have big 'wings'!!!). Going to put myself out there now to show CR hasn't taken anything to improve his build...I am drug free and certainly not big...5'7" (on a good day!!!), 12st3lb, 24.5" thighs, 15" biceps, chest 42". Yes, I know it's cringe worthy to do this but it's just to prove a point. CR is just a great athlete with a great diet. It wouldn't have taken much to build him up, just a bit of strength training. It's long been thought that steroids, hgh and other enhancers are only used by bodybuilders. For a long time, these guys took a lot of flak. They generally denied it's use. Now they are more open about it. Because they see the new generation using it far too much. Enhancers are used, no doubt about it. In every sport. To what degree depends on the sport and it's money value, and it's home country. I doubt much in the way of anabolic steroids being used in football, but other methods maybe. Also, don't forget that footballers regularly get injected with cortisone for pain relief. Cortisone is a steroid. There are many types of steroids. This is a huge subject, and I'm trying to watch eastenders before going in the gym!!! Speak later!!! Boots? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 Ok. A little bit more! Anabolic steroids are very unlikely to be a wise choice for a footballer due to the increase in muscle mass. This would actually go against a footballers aims. Using something to help with endurance and recovery would be more likely. WADA (world anti-doping agency) say football needs to take a closer look at EPO useage...which helps increase the amount of oxygen in the blood. Very useful for a footballer. FIFA, UEFA, the FA...They all seem reluctant to fully comply with WADA strict testing and extensive list of banned substances. Football is just about the only major sport reluctant to fully test it's players on a significant scale. I think this says it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 Boots? Boooom! You got me baby! Now that's enough about work, I rarely mention work outside of work!!! Home is for home, work for work. Going to have to behave myself now!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikica Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 Ok. A little bit more! Anabolic steroids are very unlikely to be a wise choice for a footballer due to the increase in muscle mass. This would actually go against a footballers aims. Using something to help with endurance and recovery would be more likely. WADA (world anti-doping agency) say football needs to take a closer look at EPO useage...which helps increase the amount of oxygen in the blood. Very useful for a footballer. FIFA, UEFA, the FA...They all seem reluctant to fully comply with WADA strict testing and extensive list of banned substances. Football is just about the only major sport reluctant to fully test it's players on a significant scale. I think this says it all. Hi mate...sorry for that error, as you say it is easily made. I had just forgotten exactly what you told me. Your post above is very informative and I think you for producing it. I saw another guy who's into bodybuilding say the same thing - that CR certainly isn't even that big, by male standards. If you compare him to someone like John Cena for example (same height), he's nowhere near as big. What made me wonder were certain aspects of his body shape, but you seem to know what you're talking about so I'd assume you're right that he isn't on steroids. The roids were more brought up by Cotto, when he mentioned CR had grown in size. Originally I was more interested in the performance enhancers. I totally agree that increased muscle mass can be detrimental to a footballer's game - since CR has been working out he's lost some of his agility imo in that he doesn't seem able to quickly twist and turn; this has reduced the effectiveness of his dribbling. The reason I have quoted this post and not your first is because it's more relevant to what I'm most curious about - that endurance and recovery is more what is important here. You look at Barca - they would back up the theory because none of them are large in size, but their pressing and fitness was remarkable. I admire Barca, and I'd hate to think they were on something, but as I said before I am open-minded enough to not dismiss it as a possibility. The recovery theory is also relevant to what I said about Messi and CR going so long injury-free. They were bulletproof, and given that Messi especially was injury-prone earlier in his career, it does make you wonder. I thought that was how it worked, as I say above - blood transfusions in order to increase the number of red blood cells and hence increase oxygen in blood. The benefits from that are obvious, as you say. As you say, testing in football is far less stringent than in other sports. That shows it's highly likely that it does go on. My theory above about the loss of money (money drives the game), if some of the sports star teams or players were disgraced is probably a big reason. We all know how corrupt FIFA, the FA etc are. Anyway, it is something interesting and a topic I have talked about with people before. I'm glad Cotto created the thread as it's a fascinating discussion. I think it's naive to assume it doesn't go on but, ultimately, none of us can actually prove anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 Your right Nik, for sure. I think a problem can arise now with advances in technology and testing. For example, the use of some sort of oxygen tank (I can't remember the in depth details) to increase oxygen in the blood. Not cheating at all. But if blood tested this would show similar results to using something like EPO, which could get you banned under WADA rules. I may have the exact details wrong there, I watched a programme on Netflix about some American guy and steroids and other enhancers. This oxygen tank malarkee came up. But yeah, the whole reluctance of fifa etc comes down to money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 Have to admit I would fail a drugs test in sport. But as they are keeping me alive I can 'live' with that. Sibdane 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 Have to admit I would fail a drugs test in sport. But as they are keeping me alive I can 'live' with that. Haha...nice one! (Well, kind of!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 FIFA, UEFA, the FA...They all seem reluctant to fully comply with WADA strict testing and extensive list of banned substances. Football is just about the only major sport reluctant to fully test it's players on a significant scale. I think this says it all. Actually, had a little think about this bit. WADAs banned substance isn't all about performance enhancing drugs as we know them but also recreational drugs...cannabis, cocaine, amphetamines etc. Knowing the lifestyle that a lot of footballers live, certainly those who earn a decent wage, I have no doubt that a high amount will at some point in their career, most likely in the teens to mid 20's age, dabble in recreational drug use. The governing bodies will know this. I think the biggest risk to testing footy players en mass is recreational drugs more than out and out performance enhancers. Still very bad for the game, it's sponsors (who probably have CEO'S etc who also dabble in cocaine!), and what ever else associated with the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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