Cornish Steve Posted February 12, 2020 Report Share Posted February 12, 2020 On 10/02/2020 at 17:21, MikeO said: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-51449739 No depth too low. How would the public respond if they were to blow up Arlington National Cemetery? Why is a Native American cemetery any less sacred? The answers that would be given by this administration, for sure, are (i) how dare anyone even suggest desecrating Arlington National Cemetery or burning a flag! (ii) But these are defeated non-white heathens, so what's the problem? The fact that the Apache nation was not even notified speaks volumes. MikeO, Matt and markjazzbassist 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chach Posted February 12, 2020 Report Share Posted February 12, 2020 8 hours ago, markjazzbassist said: no surprise at all, new hampshire is a very moderate state as a whole, they trend republican usually. even their democrats are more centrist than left. prime buttigieg territory. where he is going to have trouble are the big states like california and new york and so forth, these little ones don't amount to much in the end, they just get the ball rolling with the primaries. Do you think anyone other than a centrist has a chance of winning in November? I would have thought someone moderate Republicans would vote for would be a key prerequisite for the nomination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted February 12, 2020 Report Share Posted February 12, 2020 41 minutes ago, Chach said: Do you think anyone other than a centrist has a chance of winning in November? I would have thought someone moderate Republicans would vote for would be a key prerequisite for the nomination. trump didn't win by getting moderate republicans, trump won by winning over disenfranchised democrats. all the left has to do is get back those democrats. it doesn't have anything to do with centrist. it has to do with working class people and independents. of which bernie's policies benefit the most the workign class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted February 12, 2020 Report Share Posted February 12, 2020 To be honest, it’s a pointless discussion. Somehow he’ll get a second term. He’s just blown up a graveyard, he’s been acquitted because witnesses and testimonies were actively refused. He is above the law and laughs at it. Sanders is the best worst choice for a candidate because he’s a swing in the opposite direction, and good on him. But people have already shown how they react to swings in opinion and approaches; Sanders would just make a CW2 more likely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted February 12, 2020 Report Share Posted February 12, 2020 I think Trump will win again and while I think Bernie will appeal to most democrats he will miss out on voters more center. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted February 12, 2020 Report Share Posted February 12, 2020 3 minutes ago, Sibdane said: I think Trump will win again and while I think Bernie will appeal to most democrats he will miss out on voters more center. I fear you're right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted February 12, 2020 Report Share Posted February 12, 2020 1 hour ago, Sibdane said: I think Trump will win again and while I think Bernie will appeal to most democrats he will miss out on voters more center. who will they vote for, Trump? no way a center left democrat is voting for trump. Green party? too liberal. so who do they vote for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted February 12, 2020 Report Share Posted February 12, 2020 40 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said: who will they vote for, Trump? no way a center left democrat is voting for trump. Green party? too liberal. so who do they vote for? A lot of the same ones who voted for him last time. I wasn't just talking about left center. Trump has a lot of things going in his favor right now whether you attribute them to his policies or not. A strong economy and low unemployment are two just for starters. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted February 12, 2020 Report Share Posted February 12, 2020 Let me also add that very rarely does an incumbent lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted February 12, 2020 Report Share Posted February 12, 2020 21 minutes ago, Sibdane said: Let me also add that very rarely does an incumbent lose. Thanks for that insight Sib that’s made me feel a whole lot better Sibdane 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted February 12, 2020 Report Share Posted February 12, 2020 55 minutes ago, Palfy said: Thanks for that insight Sib that’s made me feel a whole lot better I'm always here to help Pal! Palfy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted February 12, 2020 Report Share Posted February 12, 2020 48 minutes ago, Sibdane said: I'm always here to help Pal! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chach Posted February 13, 2020 Report Share Posted February 13, 2020 12 hours ago, markjazzbassist said: trump didn't win by getting moderate republicans, trump won by winning over disenfranchised democrats. all the left has to do is get back those democrats. it doesn't have anything to do with centrist. it has to do with working class people and independents. of which bernie's policies benefit the most the workign class. Its not about the economy, its cultural, same as Brexit it's not contained to the US it's a global response to too much globalism/capitalism. Bernie is a good man and as someone not affected by US domestic policy I would ecstatic if he could get up, his voting record demonstrates he is someone who would rather be effective than right and that is a very good quality in a politician. But they will align him with the Squad and Socialism and make him defend all sorts of marginal cultural issues* *very much hope I am wrong on this. Sibdane 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted February 13, 2020 Report Share Posted February 13, 2020 What is wrong with the squad? What have they done that is bad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted February 13, 2020 Report Share Posted February 13, 2020 11 hours ago, markjazzbassist said: What is wrong with the squad? What have they done that is bad? Ask people on the other side. Everything they have done is bad in the eyes of Republicans. Trump's supporters are following him now more than ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted February 13, 2020 Report Share Posted February 13, 2020 35 minutes ago, Sibdane said: Ask people on the other side. Everything they have done is bad in the eyes of Republicans. Trump's supporters are following him now more than ever. that's my point, it's just a media campaign against the "leftist squad". in reality and in fact they have done nothing bad or wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted February 13, 2020 Report Share Posted February 13, 2020 This article kind of highlights the points of why Sanders might scare away voters: http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/elections-2020/some-democrats-fear-fallout-from-sanders-atop-the-ticket/ar-BBZWyub?ocid=ientp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted February 13, 2020 Report Share Posted February 13, 2020 2 hours ago, markjazzbassist said: that's my point, it's just a media campaign against the "leftist squad". in reality and in fact they have done nothing bad or wrong. And that’s the reason why he’ll win again. Kinetic energy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted February 13, 2020 Report Share Posted February 13, 2020 42 minutes ago, Matt said: And that’s the reason why he’ll win again. Kinetic energy. sadly i don't disagree. lies and falsehoods win the day sadly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted February 13, 2020 Report Share Posted February 13, 2020 1 hour ago, markjazzbassist said: sadly i don't disagree. lies and falsehoods win the day sadly. The pendulum is swinging. I was hoping it was slowing down but it’s magnetic poles countering each other at the moment, and the people being focused on an extreme / a team, rather than reason and actual debate Sibdane 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted February 13, 2020 Report Share Posted February 13, 2020 6 hours ago, markjazzbassist said: that's my point, it's just a media campaign against the "leftist squad". in reality and in fact they have done nothing bad or wrong. The rich control the media and they don’t want to share their wealth with the working classes, yet through media propaganda in the UK they basically brainwashed the working classes to shoot themselves in the foot over Brexit and the General election, the same is happening in the State’s with Trump the people who he has probably nothing in common with and will do nothing for are being targeted by the media moguls who have plenty of things in common with Trump to vote for him, the brainwashing has begun. pete0, markjazzbassist and MikeO 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chach Posted February 14, 2020 Report Share Posted February 14, 2020 10 hours ago, markjazzbassist said: that's my point, it's just a media campaign against the "leftist squad". in reality and in fact they have done nothing bad or wrong. 7 hours ago, markjazzbassist said: sadly i don't disagree. lies and falsehoods win the day sadly. Here's a falsehood for you, this is during a campaign to find a candidate to replace an authoritarian who has captured your government. There are scores of examples of this kind of divisiveness and identity politics BS, particularly from this member. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chach Posted February 14, 2020 Report Share Posted February 14, 2020 4 hours ago, Palfy said: The rich control the media and they don’t want to share their wealth with the working classes, yet through media propaganda in the UK they basically brainwashed the working classes to shoot themselves in the foot over Brexit and the General election, the same is happening in the State’s with Trump the people who he has probably nothing in common with and will do nothing for are being targeted by the media moguls who have plenty of things in common with Trump to vote for him, the brainwashing has begun. Please for the love of god give people some agency, this narrative on the left that "we are right and everyone else is wrong and no one can see it because they are all brainwashed by the media" is pure fantasy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted February 14, 2020 Report Share Posted February 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Chach said: Here's a falsehood for you, this is during a campaign to find a candidate to replace an authoritarian who has captured your government. There are scores of examples of this kind of divisiveness and identity politics BS, particularly from this member. I’m confused she tweeted a news article, please explain. What has AOC or pressly or Omar done wrong? Furthermore, do you believe politicians Should be infallible, or are they fallible like the rest of us humans? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chach Posted February 14, 2020 Report Share Posted February 14, 2020 3 hours ago, markjazzbassist said: I’m confused she tweeted a news article, please explain. What has AOC or pressly or Omar done wrong? Furthermore, do you believe politicians Should be infallible, or are they fallible like the rest of us humans? She tweeted an ancient article about a candidate from her own party in an attempt to smear him. His campaign pays 100% of comprehensive health insurance and it even stated in the old article she posted that he was currently paying a cash stipend in lieu. Nice deflection though, it's only Trump supporters who are blind to immoral and unethical behaviour though right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted February 14, 2020 Report Share Posted February 14, 2020 4 hours ago, Chach said: Please for the love of god give people some agency, this narrative on the left that "we are right and everyone else is wrong and no one can see it because they are all brainwashed by the media" is pure fantasy. Not everyone I’m not you definitely could be, politics in the media has become a form of advertising and advertising works by attacking subconsciously a person’s mind, if it didn’t why would billions upon billions be spent on it around the world every year, the media helps people like Trump sell their brand of politics because it suits the moguls who own the companies like your Murdock's. But not by discussing the politics or policies of either side of the divide but by attacking the personalities they don’t want in power, in the States Hilary Clinton was a good case in point, through the medium of media she was attacked by false claims even the Russians were involved and people believed it. Now Bernie Sanders is being attacked by the media in the same way by trying to discredit him as a person, and if you believe it will have no bearing on events you are highly mistaken, or dare I say completely brainwashed by the media. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chach Posted February 14, 2020 Report Share Posted February 14, 2020 18 minutes ago, Palfy said: Not everyone I’m not you definitely could be, politics in the media has become a form of advertising and advertising works by attacking subconsciously a person’s mind, if it didn’t why would billions upon billions be spent on it around the world every year, the media helps people like Trump sell their brand of politics because it suits the moguls who own the companies like your Murdock's. But not by discussing the politics or policies of either side of the divide but by attacking the personalities they don’t want in power, in the States Hilary Clinton was a good case in point, through the medium of media she was attacked by false claims even the Russians were involved and people believed it. Now Bernie Sanders is being attacked by the media in the same way by trying to discredit him as a person, and if you believe it will have no bearing on events you are highly mistaken, or dare I say completely brainwashed by the media. Did you miss the part where I said give people some agency? Both sides engage in playing the man instead of the ball and its mostly the politicians who do that, not the media. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted February 14, 2020 Report Share Posted February 14, 2020 3 hours ago, Chach said: Did you miss the part where I said give people some agency? Both sides engage in playing the man instead of the ball and its mostly the politicians who do that, not the media. But people’s opinions are in the most influenced by what they hear and read in the media, you yourself have posted articles that you think are relevant to your beliefs and political persuasions, without doing any research to see if it’s true or fake, so don’t try and tell me that the media have no influence on the people they preach to, because that would be totally naive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted February 14, 2020 Report Share Posted February 14, 2020 5 hours ago, Chach said: She tweeted an ancient article about a candidate from her own party in an attempt to smear him. His campaign pays 100% of comprehensive health insurance and it even stated in the old article she posted that he was currently paying a cash stipend in lieu. Nice deflection though, it's only Trump supporters who are blind to immoral and unethical behaviour though right. I don’t do twitter so I’m not sure if she retracted it, apologized later, I really don’t care. One tweet doesn’t make a person a bad person. It’s the whole record. I don’t believe any politicians are perfect. Hilary was a deeply flawed candidate who I did not vote for. I was for Bernie. Bernie is not perfect either, but unlike all the candidates from this year or last he has been saying the same thing and holding the same position on 99% of issues for over 3 decades of politics. Right or wrong he is consistent, which is not common among politicians. Also he has been an independent senator, not a democrat or republican. I don’t know why you feel you need to constantly come on here and lecture us all As to why the far right and far left are wrong and your moderate and centrists beliefs are correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted February 14, 2020 Report Share Posted February 14, 2020 7 hours ago, markjazzbassist said: I don’t do twitter so I’m not sure if she retracted it, apologized later, I really don’t care. One tweet doesn’t make a person a bad person. It’s the whole record. I don’t believe any politicians are perfect. Hilary was a deeply flawed candidate who I did not vote for. I was for Bernie. Bernie is not perfect either, but unlike all the candidates from this year or last he has been saying the same thing and holding the same position on 99% of issues for over 3 decades of politics. Right or wrong he is consistent, which is not common among politicians. Also he has been an independent senator, not a democrat or republican. I don’t know why you feel you need to constantly come on here and lecture us all As to why the far right and far left are wrong and your moderate and centrists beliefs are correct. He’s been brainwashed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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