Sibdane Posted January 7, 2020 Report Share Posted January 7, 2020 10 minutes ago, RPG said: So, it's Trumps style rather than his actions you don't like? He has authorised far fewer drone strikes than Obama. I dislike both. Also, I never said anything about what Obama has done or what actions he's taken that I approve or disapprove of, and that's a really annoying way to try and make a point, because you're trying to use past actions to validate present ones. Just because person X did something and person Y does the something similar doesn't mean that X or Y is right. We're talking about what Trump is doing now rather than what Obama has done in the past. Not only that, your comparison isn't even a good one considering Trump has been in office three years versus Obama's eight. But if you must compare them: Quote The drone program under Obama and the strike that killed Soleimani are not apt comparisons. The U.S. has been carrying out drone warfare in the region since the administration of George W. Bush, Obama’s predecessor. Although such warfare has always been controversial, the fallout over the killing of Soleimani is the result of his status in the Iranian government. As Reuters reported, “Major General Qassem Soleimani was the second most powerful man in Iran. He answered only to the Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei.” His killing, per Reuters, “struck at the heart” of leadership in Tehran. In March 2018, Trump revoked an Obama executive order requiring an annual disclosure of civilian deaths resulting from drone strikes. The Bureau of Investigative Journalism also reported that the number of drone strikes ratcheted up during Trump’s first year in office, doubling in Somalia and tripling in Yemen. This is my last say on this. StevO, Matt, MikeO and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted January 7, 2020 Report Share Posted January 7, 2020 34 minutes ago, Sibdane said: Not only that, your comparison isn't even a good one considering Trump has been in office three years versus Obama's eight. There's also the small point that in Obama's first three years in office the US was still an active participant in the war, so rather more likely to be involved in action than after they "withdrew" at the end of 2011. Trump has never been at war. Matt, Sibdane, Palfy and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted January 8, 2020 Report Share Posted January 8, 2020 Obama said he liked the TV show Homeland, which is sadistic if you consider what he was authorising at the time. He's just as bad as any murderous bastard in my eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted January 8, 2020 Report Share Posted January 8, 2020 2 minutes ago, pete0 said: Obama said he liked the TV show Homeland, which is sadistic if you consider what he was authorising at the time. He's just as bad as any murderous bastard in my eyes. Where? His favorite show was The Wire, which is also my favorite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted January 8, 2020 Report Share Posted January 8, 2020 4 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said: Where? His favorite show was The Wire, which is also my favorite. https://www.google.com/amp/s/woldcnews.com/978867/obama-a-fan-of-boardwalk-empire-and-homeland/amp/ He's a murderer. His drones killed kids and he goes round with a smile on his face pretending to be a humstarian because of some half arsed health bill. If the US and UK go to war with the world we will be the bad guys in the future films. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 8, 2020 Report Share Posted January 8, 2020 7 hours ago, MikeO said: There's also the small point that in Obama's first three years in office the US was still an active participant in the war, so rather more likely to be involved in action than after they "withdrew" at the end of 2011. Trump has never been at war. Yet... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted January 8, 2020 Report Share Posted January 8, 2020 9 hours ago, MikeO said: There's also the small point that in Obama's first three years in office the US was still an active participant in the war, so rather more likely to be involved in action than after they "withdrew" at the end of 2011. Trump has never been at war. Trump is doing exactly what Bush Jnr did he is trying his hardest to start a war, but for different reasons Trump is doing for his own ego and self importance, and with an agenda to disrupt his impeachment. This one action were he bypassed protocol and ignored any advice against the action he took, because his status as President allowed him to will ultimately cost many Americans and other nationalities there lives. know surprise to me at all that there is one person in particular on here who is defending Trump, sums him up in so many ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted January 8, 2020 Report Share Posted January 8, 2020 The most devastating detail, which no-one has really picked up on yet, is what the president tweeted at the very time of the assassination: a picture of an American flag. The age-old pattern will now play out: Wrap yourself in the flag and brand those who counsel caution as unpatriotic, as cowards, even as dangerous enemies. The populace obligingly falls into line, and the blood begins to flow.The war to end all wars, they said in 1918. Hell on earth, my grandfather recalled of his time fighting at the Somme. Yet here we go again - unless wiser heads can prevail. Europe, please, stand up and declare yourselves against this man. StevO, MikeO and Sibdane 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted January 8, 2020 Report Share Posted January 8, 2020 10 minutes ago, Cornish Steve said: The most devastating detail, which no-one has really picked up on yet, is what the president tweeted at the very time of the assassination: a picture of an American flag. The age-old pattern will now play out: Wrap yourself in the flag and brand those who counsel caution as unpatriotic, as cowards, even as dangerous enemies. The populace obligingly falls into line, and the blood begins to flow.The war to end all wars, they said in 1918. Hell on earth, my grandfather recalled of his time fighting at the Somme. Yet here we go again - unless wiser heads can prevail. Europe, please, stand up and declare yourselves against this man. The people have and will, most of our so called leaders will not, out of some fear that we are nothing without the President’s say so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chach Posted January 8, 2020 Report Share Posted January 8, 2020 9 hours ago, pete0 said: Obama said he liked the TV show Homeland, which is sadistic if you consider what he was authorising at the time. He's just as bad as any murderous bastard in my eyes. There is a runaway trolley barreling down the railway tracks. Ahead, on the tracks, there are five people tied up and unable to move. The trolley is headed straight for them. You are standing some distance off in the train yard, next to a lever. If you pull this lever, the trolley will switch to a different set of tracks. However, you notice that there is one person on the side track. You have two options: Do nothing and allow the trolley to kill the five people on the main track. Pull the lever, diverting the trolley onto the side track where it will kill one person. Which is the more ethical option? Or, more simply: What is the right thing to do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted January 8, 2020 Report Share Posted January 8, 2020 18 minutes ago, Chach said: There is a runaway trolley barreling down the railway tracks. Ahead, on the tracks, there are five people tied up and unable to move. The trolley is headed straight for them. You are standing some distance off in the train yard, next to a lever. If you pull this lever, the trolley will switch to a different set of tracks. However, you notice that there is one person on the side track. You have two options: Do nothing and allow the trolley to kill the five people on the main track. Pull the lever, diverting the trolley onto the side track where it will kill one person. Which is the more ethical option? Or, more simply: What is the right thing to do? Trump would need to know the nationality of the people before making the decision; if the one was American and the five were from "shithole nations" he'd let the trolley run for sure. StevO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chach Posted January 8, 2020 Report Share Posted January 8, 2020 3 minutes ago, MikeO said: Trump would need to know the nationality of the people before making the decision; if the one was American and the five were from "shithole nations" he'd let the thing run. Unless the one person was a woman who doesn't take care of her appearance, then the five shitholeans would live. StevO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chach Posted January 8, 2020 Report Share Posted January 8, 2020 4 hours ago, RPG said: Even pro rata, Obama's stats are worse. Meanwhile, two authoritarian dictators carve up North Syria. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted January 9, 2020 Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 6 minutes ago, RPG said: Initial data coming from the B737 crash shortly after take off from Imam Khomeini International suggests this was not an engine failure. The climb gradient was initially normal and data then stopped abruptly. It is usual in the event of an engine failure for the climb gradient to shallow off and it is almost unheard of for data transmission to cease unless the failure was either immediate and catastrophic, or possibly wilful. This doesn't automatically mean it was shot down of course but I think reasons other than engine failure are likely. Hopefully, they will be found to be of a technical rather than a terrorist nature. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-51044996 Another Boeing goes down. Do you fly Boeings (the 737 MAX perhaps?) ? Any difference in safety with Airbus planes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted January 9, 2020 Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 1 hour ago, TallPaul1878 said: There was a computer "game" made like this where the test subject was told to operate a lift for the computer characters to go up and down. At some point one of the characters would start shooting the others and request to go in the lift. The test subject had to decide whether to let the shooter use the lift knowing that he would kill everyone upstairs or do nothing and let them kill everyone downstairs. There were more people downstairs so the test was whether you would willingly let the fewer people upstairs die to save the majority downstairs or would you abdicate and let whatever happen play out without your input. I would have let him shoot everyone downstairs and then let him go upstairs to finish the job personally If it was Trump towers I wouldn’t have worked there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 His narcissism knows no bounds.. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-51063149 "Did Trump help broker peace between Ethiopia and Eritrea? Not really - the US's influence in the peace talks was minimal." Sibdane 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 39 minutes ago, MikeO said: His narcissism knows no bounds.. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-51063149 "Did Trump help broker peace between Ethiopia and Eritrea? Not really - the US's influence in the peace talks was minimal." What's more annoying is his supporters. Hearing them in the background of that twitter clip makes me cringe. They eat up anything he says. I've never seen more cult-like rallies than what we're witnessing with Trump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 he was in ohio at his rally he said "ohio has never been better thanks to trump", the local newspaper meanwhile reported how many jobs have left the state and how the state has declined. straight lying and his unintelligent followers love it. they don't look anything up. just take it for gospel. StevO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 37 minutes ago, Sibdane said: What's more annoying is his supporters. Hearing them in the background of that twitter clip makes me cringe. They eat up anything he says. I've never seen more cult-like rallies than what we're witnessing with Trump. Thing I find disturbing (one of the many at least) is that I can't think of another political leader who has been so boastful of himself and his achievements; not even if you delve into the worst dictators in living memory did anyone talk about their personal greatness (talking Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mussolini, various Korean Kims & Ayatollahs) anywhere near as much, if at all; it was about the cause (no matter how twisted their reasoning). The only person I can compare him to is a young Cassius Clay, difference being that Trump means and believes it and the man who became Ali was being a showman; and a lot of what he said he backed up with actions whereas Trump just barefaced lies. I think there's a whole psychosis textbook to be written on his behaviour and that of his followers and apologists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 1 hour ago, MikeO said: Thing I find disturbing (one of the many at least) is that I can't think of another political leader who has been so boastful of himself and his achievements; not even if you delve into the worst dictators in living memory did anyone talk about their personal greatness (talking Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mussolini, various Korean Kims & Ayatollahs) anywhere near as much, if at all; it was about the cause (no matter how twisted their reasoning). The only person I can compare him to is a young Cassius Clay, difference being that Trump means and believes it and the man who became Ali was being a showman; and a lot of what he said he backed up with actions whereas Trump just barefaced lies. I think there's a whole psychosis textbook to be written on his behaviour and that of his followers and apologists. 1 minute ago, TallPaul1878 said: Trump.is the gift that keeps on giving. He's gonna get a second term too I haven't been around on this Earth a long time, but I completely agree. I've never seen a "politician" like Trump nor did I realize that people like his supporters are so numerous. I knew they existed, but I had no idea there were so many with his mindset. Unfortunately Paul, I think you're right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 44 minutes ago, TallPaul1878 said: Further expansion of war in the middle east Obama pulled the US out of the war three years in. 44 minutes ago, TallPaul1878 said: further decay of the fly over states A real live 'merican stated above about the decline in Ohio under Trump, I'm not sure of the definition of a "flyover state" but I'm guessing that's one of them. 44 minutes ago, TallPaul1878 said: I'm gonna call another term for Trump. I agree. 44 minutes ago, TallPaul1878 said: For the vast majority of Americans the issues around Trump are irrelevant. That's a very sad statement on a country when a blatantly obvious racist misogynist psychopath gets a free pass. 44 minutes ago, TallPaul1878 said: ...pursuing a partisan impeachment on what appear to be trumped up charges. Proven charges. 44 minutes ago, TallPaul1878 said: Calling your opponents deplorables, racists, bigots and Nazis is hardly endearing. May not be endearing but sometimes the truth hurts. 44 minutes ago, TallPaul1878 said: Unfortunately the left leaning parties have seen fit to push a social marxists agenda and embarked upon a purity spiral where they eat their own. No idea what that means, sorry. Sibdane 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 56 minutes ago, TallPaul1878 said: ...having candidates speaking in Spanish to pander to the latino vote... Missed this one; why would they not? There is no language called "American" because all but the few natives left are immigrants. A little different but William Rees Mogg wouldn't stand in Newcastle because no bugger would understand what he was saying; if you're educated enough to talk to your electorate in their mother tongue why would you not? It's not "pandering" it's communicating. markjazzbassist, StevO and holystove 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 9 minutes ago, MikeO said: Missed this one; why would they not? There is no language called "American" because all but the few natives left are immigrants. A little different but William Rees Mogg wouldn't stand in Newcastle because no bugger would understand what he was saying; if you're educated enough to talk to your electorate in their mother tongue why would you not? It's not "pandering" it's communicating. You're slightly hitting on something here. The USA has always been known as the melting pot, but unfortunately a lot of the white males are afraid of it becoming more mixed. I'm not one who insists on being PC, but it's no coincidence that Trump supporters have a certain view on what is acceptable and what is not as to what constitutes a "real" American. StevO, Chach and MikeO 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 16 minutes ago, MikeO said: Missed this one; why would they not? There is no language called "American" because all but the few natives left are immigrants. A little different but William Rees Mogg wouldn't stand in Newcastle because no bugger would understand what he was saying; if you're educated enough to talk to your electorate in their mother tongue why would you not? It's not "pandering" it's communicating. Very revealing that @TallPaul1878gave me a red for that, tells me all I need to know about you dude unless you can rationalise your dislike for what I think is a harmless non-partisan observation. If you found yourself in a position where a lot of your listeners spoke French and you could remember some from your schooldays why in the world not speak French to them as best you can? Or would you just speak English slowly and loudly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chach Posted January 11, 2020 Report Share Posted January 11, 2020 6 hours ago, MikeO said: Thing I find disturbing (one of the many at least) is that I can't think of another political leader who has been so boastful of himself and his achievements; not even if you delve into the worst dictators in living memory did anyone talk about their personal greatness (talking Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mussolini, various Korean Kims & Ayatollahs) anywhere near as much, if at all; it was about the cause (no matter how twisted their reasoning). The only person I can compare him to is a young Cassius Clay, difference being that Trump means and believes it and the man who became Ali was being a showman; and a lot of what he said he backed up with actions whereas Trump just barefaced lies. I think there's a whole psychosis textbook to be written on his behaviour and that of his followers and apologists. Yesterday on Twitter he took credit for declining cancer death rates. Just consider the mentality of someone making that connection, also someone needs to explain to him what a lagging indicator is. StevO, Sibdane and markjazzbassist 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chach Posted January 11, 2020 Report Share Posted January 11, 2020 5 hours ago, TallPaul1878 said: Calling your opponents deplorables, racists, bigots and Nazis is hardly endearing. The vast majority of people are liberal leaning, live and let live. Unfortunately the left leaning parties have seen fit to push a social marxists agenda and embarked upon a purity spiral where they eat their own. Can you give some examples of where the "the left leaning parties have seen fit to push a social marxists agenda and embarked upon a purity spiral where they eat their own." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chach Posted January 11, 2020 Report Share Posted January 11, 2020 50 minutes ago, TallPaul1878 said: Okay I'll bite one more time as I have quickly found that this is an echo chamber. The vilification of Tulsi Gabbard and accusations that she is a Russian asset by Hillary Clinton is quite possibly the worst example of it. Some lesser examples are the dog piling of people like Martina Navratilova and JK Rowling over their stance on gender identity. Again, I'm leaving this thread now as I'm not keen on having my rep downvoted away for not being pure enough. Ok so first off, those quotes from Hillary Clinton did not accuse TG of being a Russian asset, she alluded that Russians had a favourite candidate that they were assisting with bots and that's a demonstrable fact, the context was a discussion on a podcast about the GOP's strategy and it was Gabbard's decision to misquote her in the hope she could use it for political gain, but how is that a "social marxist agenda"? Also, please supply an example of a mainstream Democrat leader getting involved in the pile of on JKR or MN. You don't have leave the thread, I'm sure @MikeOis planning to remove those downvotes when he's calmed down. Palfy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted January 11, 2020 Report Share Posted January 11, 2020 2 hours ago, RPG said: I have supported Everton since 1969 and I don't accept the level of ignorant vitriol displayed on this board as being Evertonian behaviour in any way, shape or form. We used to be so accepting of contrary opinions and to use our humour to deal with any conflicting views while still remaining good friends. It now seems as though the poison of division has even infested our support base. Very sad but I'm going nowhere. Hopefully people will reflect on their attitudes and realise that NSNO applies not just to the club but also the supporters. Nothing in this thread has anything to do with being an Evertonian. Why would anyone political views have anything to do with the football team they support? It’s ridiculous! Me and my Dad have both supported Everton all our lives, I’m so close to him, but we still have different politic views. On that point I heard a young Arsenal player get called a Tory cunt at the match the other week, I can only assume it was because he had a double barrelled name. It was so stupid it made me laugh. Palfy, Matt and MikeO 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted January 11, 2020 Report Share Posted January 11, 2020 1 hour ago, StevO said: Nothing in this thread has anything to do with being an Evertonian. That's why it's in the "off topic" section Edit: Ah sorry didn't read the post you were quoting so missed the context. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted January 11, 2020 Report Share Posted January 11, 2020 16 hours ago, TallPaul1878 said: ...having candidates speaking in Spanish to pander to the latino vote... Is it OK when Republicans do it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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