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#1 bassman

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Posted 23 Oct 2009 - 08:39

Genuine enquiry guys, so please no flak, but does anyone have the slightest idea as to why, season after season, we are suffering so much with injuries? I know all teams have injuries to key players at some stage, but we seem to be plagued with them. Is it something to do with the fitness or training methods? I for one, have no idea, but some of the more knowledgeable amongst you may have some theories at least.
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#2 Bill

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Posted 23 Oct 2009 - 09:23

Cos most of them are mollycoddled overpaid woofters anyway, and some of them are foreigners who havent got the mindset to play in the premier league.
The long term serious injuries i can forgive, but some of our players cant play because they have a cold or they have a slight cough, and they dont feel strong enough to play twice a week, twice a week ffs.
When i was their age if i was fit enough to stand up, i would get on my bike and cycle from field to field playing once on saturday and twice on sundays. :angry: woofters. :gay:
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#3 craigb

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Posted 23 Oct 2009 - 09:33

Cos most of them are mollycoddled overpaid woofters anyway, and some of them are foreigners who havent got the mindset to play in the premier league.
The long term serious injuries i can forgive, but some of our players cant play because they have a cold or they have a slight cough, and they dont feel strong enough to play twice a week, twice a week ffs.
When i was their age if i was fit enough to stand up, i would get on my bike and cycle from field to field playing once on saturday and twice on sundays. :angry: woofters. :gay:



i agree what you mean and the logic is there but, these players dont only play twice a week, they train for most of the week too, and from what i can gather its strenious work they do, they need to keep themselves in peak physical condition, so 2 big games in a week on top of this, could prove too much sometimes. Im not making excuses by the way, most football players are woofters as you say! but im just offering some opposition argument, if you want to call it that!
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#4 Bill

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Posted 23 Oct 2009 - 10:11

i agree what you mean and the logic is there but, these players dont only play twice a week, they train for most of the week too, and from what i can gather its strenious work they do, they need to keep themselves in peak physical condition, so 2 big games in a week on top of this, could prove too much sometimes. Im not making excuses by the way, most football players are woofters as you say! but im just offering some opposition argument, if you want to call it that!


I feel so sorry for them Craig. ;)
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#5 craigb

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Posted 23 Oct 2009 - 10:49

Haha, yeah me too! But as i say im just offering the opposition argument so to speak, but for the wages they are on you would expect them to fly through 2 games a week, and want some more again, but unfortunately, they dont like working that way !
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#6 marcopaulo

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Posted 23 Oct 2009 - 12:40

even if it is the fact they play twice a week which they dont always do it doesnt hit other teams as hard as it does us so there is something not right at all...plus they should be able play 2 or 3 times easy cos they'd just be training if they wern't playing and it can't be so much more strenuous to play for 90 minutes rather than train for several hours! they should be gettin some kip on the coaches and planes too :P
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#7 marcopaulo

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Posted 23 Oct 2009 - 12:41

Cos most of them are mollycoddled overpaid woofters anyway, and some of them are foreigners who havent got the mindset to play in the premier league.
The long term serious injuries i can forgive, but some of our players cant play because they have a cold or they have a slight cough, and they dont feel strong enough to play twice a week, twice a week ffs.
When i was their age if i was fit enough to stand up, i would get on my bike and cycle from field to field playing once on saturday and twice on sundays. :angry: woofters. :gay:



ahh mate that proper tickled me that reminded me of me grandad :lol: i used to walk 18 miles in 8 feet of snow with no clothes on to work 20 hours a day :lol:
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#8 craigb

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Posted 23 Oct 2009 - 13:11

ahh mate that proper tickled me that reminded me of me grandad :lol: i used to walk 18 miles in 8 feet of snow with no clothes on to work 20 hours a day :lol:


haha!
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#9 Sheeeeeedy

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Posted 23 Oct 2009 - 13:17

My guess is a bit of slackness in the medical procedures. I'm not sure exactly what goes on there, but over the past few years we have signed players that have had serious injury and offfield problems. Saha and Van Der Meyde are the two i'm really thinking about, most fans could tell you they were problematic.

Could otherwise be training, but then the injuries would all be similar. IIRC Blackburn had a problem with thigh strains a few years back, which magically dissappeared once Souness was gone...and the problem shifted itself up to Newcastle.
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#10 Lowensda

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Posted 23 Oct 2009 - 13:53

I have an inclin that it may well be training. Whether it be training them too hard, high tempo etc or whether its the type of sessions they run i.e putting strain on particular parts of the body. I dont think it's coisidence thatfor the last 2 years we've had persistant problems with injuries, its not good!
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#11 Bill

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Posted 23 Oct 2009 - 13:59

ahh mate that proper tickled me that reminded me of me grandad :lol: i used to walk 18 miles in 8 feet of snow with no clothes on to work 20 hours a day :lol:


What :blink: only 20 hours the big sissy, i did some overtime on top of that. :lol:
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#12 marcopaulo

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Posted 23 Oct 2009 - 14:06

like blackadder eh 20 hour shift with 4 hours of overtime :lol:
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#13 Sporting4ever

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Posted 23 Oct 2009 - 15:43

even if it is the fact they play twice a week which they dont always do it doesnt hit other teams as hard as it does us so there is something not right at all...plus they should be able play 2 or 3 times easy cos they'd just be training if they wern't playing and it can't be so much more strenuous to play for 90 minutes rather than train for several hours! they should be gettin some kip on the coaches and planes too :P


I agree. Looking at the last few years, the sheer number of injuries points to more than simply bad luck.
I remember that, a few years back, benfica had a similar problem, they had a high number of injuries for a couple of seasons or so, and I remember they made some changes back then, don't recall exactly if it was on the medical staff or the phisio department. Maybe one of them remembers that better than me, but I do remember that it was something like their PT wasn't properly done, or something, and they had higher attrition numbers than normal.

It's what makes the most sense, really. Their bodies aren't beeing properly prepared for the ammount of time they play, therefore they injure themselves easier.
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#14 Bailey

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Posted 23 Oct 2009 - 20:00

I think I also read somewhere that they changed their training methods at the start of the season to some new American style sessions. I dont really know of its merits but it was meant to be more enjoyable and reduce the risk of injuries... It doesnt seem to be working!
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#15 Sgt Pepper

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Posted 24 Oct 2009 - 05:25

Man we've got the worst luck with injuries. It was really weird just to find out that Yobo, Baines, and Osman were all injured and out of the Europa game :blink:
and Hibbert and Hietinga couldnt play WTF.
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#16 BlueBoy1980

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Posted 24 Oct 2009 - 07:54

Bill wrote:

When i was their age if i was fit enough to stand up, i would get on my bike and cycle from field to field playing once on saturday and twice on sundays. woofters.


Obviously you were in goal then ;)
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#17 Wall Writer

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Posted 24 Oct 2009 - 08:27

Had a strange dream last night. Our injury list was so bad, we starting bring in free kids from Thailand. Please let it not get that bad. :blink:
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#18 Matt

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Posted 26 Oct 2009 - 09:54

ahh mate that proper tickled me that reminded me of me grandad :lol: i used to walk 18 miles in 8 feet of snow with no clothes on to work 20 hours a day :lol:

You try telling that to the youth of today, and they wont believe you...

seriously though, whats going on?! Has Baz got a seriously hot assistant who does all the massages?
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#19 retnub

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Posted 26 Oct 2009 - 13:12

[quote name='galacticaracnid' date='26 Oct 2009 - 09:54' timestamp='1256550855' post='192081']
You try telling that to the youth of today, and they wont believe you...

seriously though, whats going on?! Has Baz got a seriously hot assistant who does all the massages?

What a load of old tosh you guys are talking ! what do you air heads mean that it has something to do with the training methods FFS !

did none of you see how Jags,Neville,Arteta,Pienaar got injured ? just to mention a couple ! jeez, bring back the Blueroom and escla !
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#20 Matt

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Posted 26 Oct 2009 - 13:44

[quote name='retnub' date='26 Oct 2009 - 13:12' timestamp='1256562736' post='192112']
[quote name='galacticaracnid' date='26 Oct 2009 - 09:54' timestamp='1256550855' post='192081']
You try telling that to the youth of today, and they wont believe you...

seriously though, whats going on?! Has Baz got a seriously hot assistant who does all the massages?

What a load of old tosh you guys are talking ! what do you air heads mean that it has something to do with the training methods FFS !

did none of you see how Jags,Neville,Arteta,Pienaar got injured ? just to mention a couple ! jeez, bring back the Blueroom and escla !
[/quote]
where did i once question the training methods? i quoted the mighty Python to make light of the claim that training is responsible. Who's the airhead now, dumbass...
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#21 retnub

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Posted 26 Oct 2009 - 19:22

ame='retnub' date='26 Oct 2009 - 13:12' timestamp='1256562736' post='192112']

where did i once question the training methods? i quoted the mighty Python to make light of the claim that training is responsible. Who's the airhead now, dumbass...


My comments were not directed at you but at the countless others who were whinging about the training,this site is useless to navigate,bring back the blueroom and escla I say !
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#22 MikeO

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Posted 26 Oct 2009 - 19:52

My comments were not directed at you but at the countless others who were whinging about the training,this site is useless to navigate,bring back the blueroom and escla I say !

Including you and me fourteen people have posted in this thread.....even if we were all whinging (which we're not) you'd have to be fairly seriously challenged mathematically to call that "countless."

Sorry you have trouble navigating the site, we'd make it simpler for you if we could but it's just not possible :) .

I hope the Blueroom comes back soon too.
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#23 carlmc25

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Posted 27 Oct 2009 - 12:14

Genuine enquiry guys, so please no flak, but does anyone have the slightest idea as to why, season after season, we are suffering so much with injuries? I know all teams have injuries to key players at some stage, but we seem to be plagued with them. Is it something to do with the fitness or training methods? I for one, have no idea, but some of the more knowledgeable amongst you may have some theories at least.

I don't know if it's bad luck or something more sinister but since Steve Round has come in our injury problems have been unbelievable (plus our defending of basic set pieces this season is inept). When we had Irvine we seemed to have little problem with injuries but last season and this it's getting silly.
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#24 nogs

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Posted 27 Oct 2009 - 13:39

My guess is a bit of slackness in the medical procedures. I'm not sure exactly what goes on there, but over the past few years we have signed players that have had serious injury and offfield problems. Saha and Van Der Meyde are the two i'm really thinking about, most fans could tell you they were problematic.

Could otherwise be training, but then the injuries would all be similar. IIRC Blackburn had a problem with thigh strains a few years back, which magically dissappeared once Souness was gone...and the problem shifted itself up to Newcastle.


They're mostly knee injuries, aren't they? Arteta, Jags, Neville, Vaughan, Pienaar, Anichebe - that's half of all the current injuries are pretty similar. Ok, I know most of them happened in matches, a couple as the result of pretty horrible challenges, but can this really just be bad luck? Is there something in our training that is making the players' knee joints weaker than they should be? If the muscles immediately above and below aren't strong enough, it can easily cause the knee joint to 'wobble', which is where you get your ligament and cartilage injuries coming in. I dunno, I'm no doctor but I hope it's something the club are looking into coz its ruining us at the moment.
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#25 duncanmckenzieismagic

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Posted 27 Oct 2009 - 15:27

I don't know if it's bad luck or something more sinister but since Steve Round has come in our injury problems have been unbelievable (plus our defending of basic set pieces this season is inept). When we had Irvine we seemed to have little problem with injuries but last season and this it's getting silly.



What utter rubish!

If Steve Round had tackled Anichebe, Piennar, Neville etc in training then yes it would be his fault

Our injury crisis has got nothing to do with Steve Round or anything the players are doing in training its just plain bad luck
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#26 retnub

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Posted 27 Oct 2009 - 15:48

They're mostly knee injuries, aren't they? Arteta, Jags, Neville, Vaughan, Pienaar, Anichebe - that's half of all the current injuries are pretty similar. Ok, I know most of them happened in matches, a couple as the result of pretty horrible challenges, but can this really just be bad luck? Is there something in our training that is making the players' knee joints weaker than they should be? If the muscles immediately above and below aren't strong enough, it can easily cause the knee joint to 'wobble', which is where you get your ligament and cartilage injuries coming in. I dunno, I'm no doctor but I hope it's something the club are looking into coz its ruining us at the moment.


God help us ! is this supposed to be the thinking mans forum ????? oh, I keep forgetting, its half term isn't it ! yeah it must be that Steve Round fella giving them all wobbly knees :blink:
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#27 craigb

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Posted 27 Oct 2009 - 16:03

My comments were not directed at you but at the countless others who were whinging about the training,this site is useless to navigate,bring back the blueroom and escla I say !


theres nothing wrong with this site, i find it pretty easy to navigate
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#28 craigb

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Posted 27 Oct 2009 - 16:05

God help us ! is this supposed to be the thinking mans forum ????? oh, I keep forgetting, its half term isn't it ! yeah it must be that Steve Round fella giving them all wobbly knees :blink:



haha!
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#29 jayc3

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Posted 27 Oct 2009 - 16:13

God help us ! is this supposed to be the thinking mans forum ????? oh, I keep forgetting, its half term isn't it ! yeah it must be that Steve Round fella giving them all wobbly knees :blink:


agree with you here mate some serious tripe getin talked here.lets have a look at the current injuries

arteta-cruciate ligament, freak accident
jagielka-cruciate ligament, fell over again freak accident
anichebe-knee, result of a bad tackle from nolan
osman-foot, bad tackle in training
pienaar-knee, bad tackle at pompey
vaughan-knee, happened at derby not at everton
yobo-head, not sure how he done this but i'm sure everton's training methods would not injure yobo in the head unless they practice kung fu in training
neville-knee ligament again freak accident
yakubu-bruised heel (before that ruptured ankle anoteher freak accident)
baines-calf, simple strain (the 1st injury so far that could be linked to training methods
bilyaletdinov-calf strain, happenned against benfica

possibly cahill and heitinga now also who were both injured against bolton. all this shows that we have simply been unlucky with injuries over the past few years added to this we also have alot of injury prone players on our books (i.e saha, osman, vaughan,) we are suffering injuries alot. it is ludicrous however to suggest its down to training methods that these injuries are happening!
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#30 carlmc25

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Posted 27 Oct 2009 - 16:54

What utter rubish!

If Steve Round had tackled Anichebe, Piennar, Neville etc in training then yes it would be his fault

Our injury crisis has got nothing to do with Steve Round or anything the players are doing in training its just plain bad luck

freak accidents seem to be occurring with alarming regularity, maybe if our players knees (whatever) were stronger they wouldn't be so prone to freak injuries when they jump for a header. It's just a thought and maybe it is purely bad luck, but questions should be asked imo. Liverpool had a lot of injuries when Phil Boersma was in charge of training, I doubt he went around actually injuring players himself. Sometimes the training can be to blame.
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#31 duncanmckenzieismagic

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Posted 27 Oct 2009 - 17:07

freak accidents seem to be occurring with alarming regularity, maybe if our players knees (whatever) were stronger they wouldn't be so prone to freak injuries when they jump for a header. It's just a thought and maybe it is purely bad luck, but questions should be asked imo. Liverpool had a lot of injuries when Phil Boersma was in charge of training, I doubt he went around actually injuring players himself. Sometimes the training can be to blame.



Of the knee injuries Neville, Piennar & Anichebe got thier injuries as a result of bad tackles sustained during competritive games so they cant be put down to anything in training

Jags just landed awkwardly and Arteta got his stoods caught in the turf as he turned. Yak was just unlucky

Thier is no conspiracy and to look for a scapegoat like Steve Round is absurd

If the injuries were all niggling strains etc then maybe you could look at the training

But as somebody else pointed out Vaughn want even at the club when he got injured, Yobo was a head injury picked up in a game, Yak is bound to pick up some niggling injuries after being out for so long so that only leaves Baines, Osman & Bily's injuries and given the amount of games they are being asked to play its hardly surprising that we pick up one or two knocks

Edited by duncanmckenzieismagic, 27 Oct 2009 - 17:11.

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#32 craigb

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Posted 27 Oct 2009 - 17:11

freak accidents seem to be occurring with alarming regularity, maybe if our players knees (whatever) were stronger they wouldn't be so prone to freak injuries when they jump for a header. It's just a thought and maybe it is purely bad luck, but questions should be asked imo. Liverpool had a lot of injuries when Phil Boersma was in charge of training, I doubt he went around actually injuring players himself. Sometimes the training can be to blame.


after reading jayc3's last comments then, then reading your first line carl, i drew the same conclusion. You say freak accident jay, but these accidents could happen due, to as people have stated, weak joints or some kind of strenious training regime that may weaken certain areas of the leg, i really dont know, i dont wanna get embroiled in this argument by the way, its just something i picked up when reading your comments just before
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#33 xavier

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Posted 27 Oct 2009 - 18:50

It depends where the injuries are happening doesnt it. If its during training, then it means different from an in game injury. Newcastle's training ground is infamous for getting players injured. Could well be the exercise regimen as well, some players are not suited to a particular one. Torres remains fit for us most of the time but the chances of him getting crocked increase the moment he goes away on international duty with Spain. God knows what they do to him. On the other hand, some players are just injury prone... like Van Der Meyde. He could be chopping parsley and he'd still do his knee somehow.
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#34 carlmc25

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Posted 27 Oct 2009 - 20:53

Of the knee injuries Neville, Piennar & Anichebe got thier injuries as a result of bad tackles sustained during competritive games so they cant be put down to anything in training

Jags just landed awkwardly and Arteta got his stoods caught in the turf as he turned. Yak was just unlucky

Thier is no conspiracy and to look for a scapegoat like Steve Round is absurd

If the injuries were all niggling strains etc then maybe you could look at the training

But as somebody else pointed out Vaughn want even at the club when he got injured, Yobo was a head injury picked up in a game, Yak is bound to pick up some niggling injuries after being out for so long so that only leaves Baines, Osman & Bily's injuries and given the amount of games they are being asked to play its hardly surprising that we pick up one or two knocks

Vaughan and VDM are irrelevant as they are obviously just injury prone, but as you said - Arteta, Jags AND Yakubu all picked up 'freak' injuries within the space of roughly 12 months since Round has been coach, how many 'freak' serious injuries did we have when Irvine was in charge? we must have had more injuries in the last 15 months than the previous 4 or so years under Irvine's training regimes and none can really be blamed on the new boots and metatarsals. Injuries like Anichebes are unavoidable, some of the others seemed to be picked up far too easily. As you think, it may be coincidence but you can't blame me for seeing a pattern emerging and looking for possible answers.
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#35 thinman

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Posted 28 Oct 2009 - 02:25

ok here's my two cents re: increased injuries over the past 2-3 seasons.

The boys are playing much, much harder than average, i think, due to;
a.) other players being injured
b.) increased expectations for performance (league position, UEFA/Europa)

Its a vicious cycle.
We've got a pretty loyal bunch and i do think they (most of them, most of the time) give all they've got when they get out there.
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#36 bluenoseyankee

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Posted 28 Oct 2009 - 05:18

i tend to think there is something wrong with the training methods. There are very few truly "freak" accidents. Landing awkwardly, catching studs, falling poorly should not result in 3 torn ACLs. It may not be directly caused by Round, but there is definitely a correlation that should be taken note of. As for Vaughn being at Derby when he picked up the most recent injury...he hadn't been training with them long enough to have any significant effect on the strength (muscular and otherwise) of his knee, if the injury was due to poor training, it was training he did while at Everton.

I hope the board brings in an outside physio for a while to examine/evaluate the methods employed by Round and staff and make sure that the correlation is not causal. If it is, either tell him to change methods or drop him. We can't sustain any more (preventable?) injuries and we need to eliminate any possible factors in their occurrence.
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#37 Romey 1878

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Posted 28 Oct 2009 - 08:10

First Round was blamed for us conceding goals, now for injuries too. Maybe the next time Moyes has a shit that will somehow have an impact on the side as well.
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#38 Bailey

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Posted 28 Oct 2009 - 12:34

It is certainly true that poor or excessive training methods can result in fatigue or the weakening of joints etc etc. I very much doubt it would be down to poor training methods as its 2009 not 1909, we have sports scientist who measure all this crap so I doubt it is that. As someone mentioned earlier it is most probably down to the large number of games (club and country) and the fact that the squad is being strethed due to injuries to other players. Add this to the fact that normally at Everton we press lots, get stuck and are generally quite fiesty on the pitch, these will add more stresses to the joints/muscles etc (like the challenges on Neville & Pienaar) and knocks can be easily picked up. If your tired then your more likely to get injured so all these factors will come into play. Add to this a little/large sprinkling of bad luck and viola you currently have the Everton injury list!
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#39 MikeO

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Posted 28 Oct 2009 - 19:02

A bit of hope...

http://www.evertonfc...-to-shrink.html
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#40 Romey 1878

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Posted 29 Oct 2009 - 07:31

Someone on Kipper says they met Pienaar yesterday and Pienaar said he's definitely out of the Villa game and could be out for a further two weeks :(.
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