Avinalaff Posted October 1, 2011 Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 Should Jags be dropped? How many more mistakes can Jags make while we have a Dutch International Centre Back sat on the bench scratching his head? It's nearly a costly mistake in every game at the moment. Not what is expected of a place winning player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted October 1, 2011 Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 Should be nowhere near the 1st team at the moment. He was shaky last season, poor this, and absolutely dreadful today. He shows no characteristics of being a captain and is always the first to go to pot when its backs against the walls. For the money supposedly on the table, we may regret not selling him in the summer. His price will halve if he continues like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted October 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 You can argue that it will hurt his confidence if he is dropped, and it's best to play through it, but for me, he is a professional player and part of a squad, and other players of equal standing are just as deserving of the position, and the chance to make it their own. He could be having a spate of bad luck too, but jump back in the reserves and play out of it, and then await your chance again. Heitinga should get his chance now. I know sometimes Moyes plays Heitinga in the middle, but he must surely feel the position should be his now. It's not good for morale for players to never get picked, especially when you consider that Heitinga is a regular International, and Jags isn't. Too many mistakes for me. Nothing personal Phil, but you can't keep making mistakes and keep your place. We have a squad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted October 1, 2011 Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 He made some very good challenges today, but it seems whenever he makes a mistake at the moment we get punished. Difficult one for moyes to call but johnny is good enough to be thrown in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted October 1, 2011 Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 I've been saying for a while that he should be dropped and today has done absolutely nothing to make me think otherwise. He is a liability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsabell Posted October 1, 2011 Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 I would say yes to dropping him but as far as player power goes nowdays he'd put a transfer request in on the monday morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted October 1, 2011 Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 I would say yes to dropping him but as far as player power goes nowdays he'd put a transfer request in on the monday morning. bye bye then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted October 1, 2011 Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 should have been sold instead of Arteta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted October 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 It would be interesting to hear why folk think he shouldn't be dropped. Never sure why folk just vote and don't discuss. The Internet is full of opportunities to vote. Forums are for chatting, aren't they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted October 1, 2011 Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 is there much to discuss? he's been shit..mistakes every match..heitinga hasn't had his chance..where is the discussion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted October 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 is there much to discuss? he's been shit..mistakes every match..heitinga hasn't had his chance..where is the discussion? That's why I'd like the 2 lads who voted no to chime in, unless of course they were our red friends. If there are good reasons for him to keep his place let's hear them. I can't think of any to be fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kohen Posted October 1, 2011 Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 Like everyone else, they should show the deserve to be on the pitch. If they don't (and they have a reasonable replacement sat on the bench) they should be replaced. Only argument I suppose, is that Moyes is leaving the two at the back, because he wants them to form a 'partnership', something which wont develop with the chop and change every couple of weeks. Although, they've had long enough now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codders78 Posted October 1, 2011 Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 How is he supposed to know he is playing shit and needs to up his game when he gets picked every week? Moyes has a part to play and it goes something like "Phil, you have been nothing short of toilet recently, have a few games on the bench, Jonny might not play like an amateur" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted October 1, 2011 Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 Johnny should be given an opportunity at CB, probably in place of jags but on this basis disin shouldn't be untouchable either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted October 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 Johnny should be given an opportunity at CB, probably in place of jags but on this basis disin shouldn't be untouchable either. Distin has probably been our best player to be fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted October 1, 2011 Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 Distin has probably been our best player to be fair. Agree in a way but he makes a lot more costly mistakes than anyone else, yet gets us out of shit more than anyone else too!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted October 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 Agree in a way but he makes a lot more costly mistakes than anyone else, yet gets us out of shit more than anyone else too!!! I think his first season was up and down at first, but he was our best player last year for much of it in my eyes, and has been good this season too. Jags on the other hand had a great partnership with Lescott, but was unlucky, and found himself injured. Since his return he's been rocky, and a break away from the pressure could actually change his luck. I think we should be rotating more as it is. It's the only way to utilise a squad and keep everyone fit, and happy, and it keeps players on their toes too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted October 1, 2011 Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 I think his first season was up and down at first, but he was our best player last year for much of it in my eyes, and has been good this season too. Jags on the other hand had a great partnership with Lescott, but was unlucky, and found himself injured. Since his return he's been rocky, and a break away from the pressure could actually change his luck. I think we should be rotating more as it is. It's the only way to utilise a squad and keep everyone fit, and happy, and it keeps players on their toes too. I agree he regularly out performs Jags and is often our best player but he also often makes very costly mistake - more so than anyone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogsy Posted October 2, 2011 Report Share Posted October 2, 2011 I am/was a big fan of jags, but since his injury he's not the same player, a very similar senario as Arteta I think. Yes he should be dropped and jonny h should go in. If he hands in a transfer request then fine, let him go, cause maybe the talk earlier about a bid coming for him has turned his head, or maybe he doesn't want to play for everton anymore, perhaps he thinks he deserves better. I find his whole situation spookily similar to Arteta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
germanblue Posted October 2, 2011 Report Share Posted October 2, 2011 He should not be dropped. Why? You can not always lose faith in a player, but we must continue to give him confidence. Yesterday he gave the penalty to them, but the rest of the game he was solid and makes no another mistake. There is sometimes these days when every little mistake will punished, but I see him not on the bench. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted October 2, 2011 Report Share Posted October 2, 2011 (edited) I dont think he should be dropped simply because I dont think he has been as bad as people in here seem to think he is Granted he has had his moments with poor distribution but then that has always been his achillies heel. His form has dipped a little but I think he is showing signs of getting back to his best and sometimes you just have to let a player play himself back into form. I watched Johnny against WBA and it wasnt as if he is playing out of his skin I just dont think the people in this forum realise what it is that Jags brings to the side, he is the man who does all the talking, all the organising he controls our back four and I dont think either Distin or Heitinga give you that Im not saying he should be untouchable but I just dont think he is as bad as people are saying Edited October 2, 2011 by duncanmckenzieismagic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted October 2, 2011 Report Share Posted October 2, 2011 it's not his distribution that has worried me..every game he is making a big mistake and costing us a goal(or nearly) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoroBlue Posted October 2, 2011 Report Share Posted October 2, 2011 I would point out the clearance over the goal from 2 yards out when the ball was whipped in with pace with a striker lurking at far post as a classic example of why he does make mistakes, for me he saved a certain goal there but could have quite easily put the ball in the back of his own net making himself the villain, how many defenders would have left that for the keeper to deal with and been left shrugging there shoulders when the ball was in the back of the net. If you make last ditch tackles and blocks and put everything on the line like Jags does you are going to make mistakes (although I will admit if his positioning was better he would not be required to make so many last ditch tackles). I wrote the following in another topic a while back and still stand by it, although I agree his form this year has been poor and no player should be untouchable, I would be reluctant to drop him just yet. I don't think its a coincidence that Jags seems to bring the best out of his CB partner, I think its down to the fact he is a very good organiser and a real leader of the back 4. The Lescott-Yobo partnership you mentioned, as I remember it when they played together at CB they were fairly shakey which ultimately led to Baines being dropped around Christmas time in his first season and Lescott moved to leftback. My memory may be decieving me but when Jags came into that back 4 they looked far more solid and he brought the best out in Yobo. Then Lescott was moved to CB to partner Jags to form a superb partnership (described by Alex Ferguson as second only to the Rio-Vidic partnership) which then led to Lescott being sold to Man City for a whopping 24m, where he then fell apart as a CB. The only time Lescott has looked like a 24m CB since was the 2 games he partnered Jags for England last year. Finally the Distin-Jags partnership which IMO has untill this season looked pretty solid (45goals conceded last season, only the top 3 conceded less than 43). When Distin came to the club most fans were pretty sceptical but is now considered by most it seems as a better cb than Jags, like I said I don't think any of this is a coincidence. I completely agree that he is in poor form at the moment but I think what he adds to the team is invaluable and calls to drop him may be abit premature, just my opinion though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted October 2, 2011 Report Share Posted October 2, 2011 He's lost his way, his head has gone. Heitinga in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonButtle Posted October 2, 2011 Report Share Posted October 2, 2011 have to agree, he looks like he needs a wake up call, he cant be untouchable, but then we all know Moyes has his favourites Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted October 2, 2011 Report Share Posted October 2, 2011 have to agree, he looks like he needs a wake up call, he cant be untouchable, but then we all know Moyes has his favourites Thats utter bollocks IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonButtle Posted October 2, 2011 Report Share Posted October 2, 2011 Thats utter bollocks IMO so was your post before IMO, so i guess that makes us even then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted October 2, 2011 Report Share Posted October 2, 2011 (edited) Would you not say Phil Neville is one of Moysies favourites? And which part of my post did you disagree with? If you dont think Jags is the man who marshalls our back four then you are watching a different Everton to me, or maybe you just havent seen him because you only watch him on the TV and dont see it. ( Thats not meant as a dig btw, because I wouldnt have a clue whether you were a season ticket holder or just an internet fan) Edited October 2, 2011 by duncanmckenzieismagic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonButtle Posted October 2, 2011 Report Share Posted October 2, 2011 yeah i would say Nev was, and he gets benched, Hibbert, Anichebe, Cahill, but thats a whole other debate, that has been discussed before on here as for your post, well i hav'nt been to a game this season, as i live down south, but to me its Howard that does the shouting and pointing not Jags, and i just think he needs a few games out, and let Heitinga have a go, nothing wrong with that is there, its called rotating the squad, prior to moving down here a few years ago, i went home and away when i could and was still based in Liverpool, its just to far now, trains are way to expenisve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted October 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2011 (edited) Jags didn't just make one mistake yesterday. I counted at least 3 major clangers including the penalty, and some out of position issues too. At the moment he is having a bad run of luck, where everything he touches unfortunately doesn't turn to gold, and a break could be good for him. It's not just about Jags either. We also have a superb Centre Back in Heitinga, so the squad is bigger than the individual. Heitinga hasn't joined us to sit out. He's joined us to fight for his place, and when the run of errors takes place that Jags has had, it's time to give the next man a go. We can't have favourites. All players are important to the team. Edited October 2, 2011 by Avinalaff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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