EFC-Paul Posted November 9, 2011 Report Share Posted November 9, 2011 Not to sure to be honest mate if I knew that I wouldn't work for the Railway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanchesterCity Posted November 9, 2011 Report Share Posted November 9, 2011 Maybe working for the railway IS the smarter choice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcus jones Posted November 9, 2011 Report Share Posted November 9, 2011 Brendan Rodgers doing what exactly? Takes over an extremely good Swansea side? Let him take over a long ball team full of kickers and see how he gets on then. Swansea's blue print was drawn up long before by Martinez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted November 9, 2011 Report Share Posted November 9, 2011 Given the rather shambolic mismanagement of football club finances across the board, one would have a very strong case for saying "yes, we DO know better". Can somebody explain to me how credible boards of football clubs are unable to manage their finances with any degree of success? I put it to you that FIFA, UEFA and the FA are an out of touch, corrupt (in some instances) arrogant cliques who repeatedly make awful decisions. I put it to you that the boards of leading football clubs are filled with ego centric lunatics who, for a variety of reasons, 'invest' in clubs and do so unsuccessfully. I put it to you, that 'passionate' benefactors of clubs let their hearts rule with their head, overspend, overexpect, and underperform. I put it to you, that the fan on the street can see the writing on the wall long before the upper echelons of clubs can. Yes, we often DO know better. Just figuring which of us, and when is the tricky bit. Bluesky, you've jumped in with both feet with that post without first ascertaining the depth of the water in which you've chosen to swim in. I thought you were far more intelligent, and level headed. Firstly, your answer is totally irrelevant to the conversation, and certainly not on topic regarding Moyes, and secondly every point you make is presumptuous rather than factual. The big difference regarding fans and football directors, is that directors are running their clubs and respective businesses, and fans aren't directly involved, therefore know little of the day to day dealings with the club, hence there being so much naivety and speculation written on forum notice boards. The topic in hand is Moyes, and his management of our squad. It's not about Fifa, Uefa, the FA, or any other of your points to be fair mate. As for seeing the writing on the wall, there are 40,000 City fans who certainly didn't see their take over coming, and at least the same amount of Everton fans who won't see theirs either, unless Kenwright has been selling blue tinted crystal balls at half time. Folk at the top didn't get there by being idiots, or bad business men. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted November 9, 2011 Report Share Posted November 9, 2011 I'm sorry but if we had investment like Sunderland, Villa, Stoke et al, and Moyes was allowed another 20mil to spend, I think Moyes could still quite easily get us to Europe. It's like i said before, we may be playing bad football, but who else is going to want to manage a club with massive expectations and absolutely fuck all cash to spend?? If there is a manager who can get us to European football bar Moyes then what's his number? Let's give him a call. See this is the bit im not sure about. Yes we would have a couple of better players knocking around BUT we still have a good team. Would a different CF with no service do any better? Yes a couple of different types of players would help balance out the midfield a little, which in turn might help us keep hold of possession a little better but I think it is a bit naive to think that we would suddenly be much better than we are at the moment. What I would add, which kind of supports your arguement, is that if Moyes had been continually supported in the transfer market then maybe he lighten up a bit, get a bit of that spark back and in turn we would play better and more positive football. Who knows, but we have players who are capable of performing to a higher standard than they are now, and replacing them with realistic targets would just result with a team underperfoming with the only different being the names on the back of the shirt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanchesterCity Posted November 9, 2011 Report Share Posted November 9, 2011 (edited) Bluesky, you've jumped in with both feet with that post without first ascertaining the depth of the water in which you've chosen to swim in. I thought you were far more intelligent, and level headed. Firstly, your answer is totally irrelevant to the conversation, and certainly not on topic regarding Moyes, and secondly every point you make is presumptuous rather than factual. The big difference regarding fans and football directors, is that directors are running their clubs and respective businesses, and fans aren't directly involved, therefore know little of the day to day dealings with the club, hence there being so much naivety and speculation written on forum notice boards. The topic in hand is Moyes, and his management of our squad. It's not about Fifa, Uefa, the FA, or any other of your points to be fair mate. As for seeing the writing on the wall, there are 40,000 City fans who certainly didn't see their take over coming, and at least the same amount of Everton fans who won't see theirs either, unless Kenwright has been selling blue tinted crystal balls at half time. Folk at the top didn't get there by being idiots, or bad business men. Au Contraire!! You raised the issue of Moyes' tenure being 'safe' because the board believed in his abilities (or the financial implications of relieving him of his duties), and to that end, I say to you - why SHOULD the board have any great ability to decide such a thing when the track record of most boards is hardly a shining example of astute decisions. Futhermore, many of football's owners did NOT make their money in football, and the majority lose money when they venture into it! Stupid people? no. Bad at running football clubs - yes. I lay before you sir the following exhibit - Everton's end of year financial report A shining example of a failing business (as is the case with 99% of most football clubs). You stated this: His job is 'safe' as some say, because he is proving to the board year after year that he is the best man for the job, and not, because we can't afford to get rid of him, as somebody said. Those who are against him are ignorant to the positives he brings, often because their expectations are unrealistic, and analysis of his on field performance lacking in understanding, not to mention real life facts and information, that only the back room staff have. At the end of the day, unless you are in the business of football, then you are 'not' in the business of football, and any opinion outside of that business will normally be an uneducated one accompanied by inexperience. You called into question the ability of those not in football to passing judgment - with the clear implication that those IN football were best placed to make such decisions. I challenge your assertion. There is a LOT of evidence to suggest those running football are imbeciles, and those managing clubs are bordering on incompetent. You put forward a premise, from which you drew a conclusion. I'm challenging your premise. Edited November 9, 2011 by BlueSky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanchesterCity Posted November 9, 2011 Report Share Posted November 9, 2011 See this is the bit im not sure about. Yes we would have a couple of better players knocking around BUT we still have a good team. Would a different CF with no service do any better? Yes a couple of different types of players would help balance out the midfield a little, which in turn might help us keep hold of possession a little better but I think it is a bit naive to think that we would suddenly be much better than we are at the moment. What I would add, which kind of supports your arguement, is that if Moyes had been continually supported in the transfer market then maybe he lighten up a bit, get a bit of that spark back and in turn we would play better and more positive football. Who knows, but we have players who are capable of performing to a higher standard than they are now, and replacing them with realistic targets would just result with a team underperfoming with the only different being the names on the back of the shirt. This is where I side with Moyes and call into question 'the club' as a business. Everton are one of Englands biggest and most historic clubs, and don't have a tradition of spending foolishly (yes there's been a few duff buys, but hardly smashing transfer records over the years). With such a solid fan base, and on average, one of the highest attended clubs, it beggars belief that with frugal spending on Moyes part AND selling key players that 'the club' are still in an onerous financial position. I think Moyes deserves lavish praise for his work, sadly the same cannot be said of the board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted November 9, 2011 Report Share Posted November 9, 2011 Bluesky, my interest is with Moyes. To entertain your points would be travelling in the wrong direction, and away from the immediate matter in hand. What other chairmen or boards do has no relevance to Moyes' ability as a manager. My points were with reference to Moyes' managing of the team, and any other point was directly associated with Moyes, regardless of whether it can apply to other clubs. I didn't need to emphasise this because it's a 'Moyes' thread, so it's safe to presume all points raised were in conjunction with Moyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanchesterCity Posted November 9, 2011 Report Share Posted November 9, 2011 The two are intertwined - Moyes' ability as a manager is tested by the decisions the board make off the pitch. The fact that Moyes' ability is even being questioned is (in my view) misguided and the attention should be turned to the board. In order to prove Moyes' innocence, it's necessary to pinpoint the true culprit(s) - the board. Any talk of 'the board are clever people, the must know what they are doing' can best be summarised by a certain J.Royle (not Joe) ... "My arse!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted November 9, 2011 Report Share Posted November 9, 2011 Safest job in football ? Are we using this expression too often? Moyes is in good standing because he has done his job remarkably well. So well, in fact, that his peers rate him as one of the very best in the business. Our club are traditionally loyal to managers, if you look at our history, despite not having one in the early years. This wouldn't stop a manager from getting sacked though, should he be unable to manage the squad, and managing the squad comes in many forms, of which only David Moyes can enlighten us with, not me. His job is 'safe' as some say, because he is proving to the board year after year that he is the best man for the job, and not, because we can't afford to get rid of him, as somebody said. Those who are against him are ignorant to the positives he brings, often because their expectations are unrealistic, and analysis of his on field performance lacking in understanding, not to mention real life facts and information, that only the back room staff have. At the end of the day, unless you are in the business of football, then you are 'not' in the business of football, and any opinion outside of that business will normally be an uneducated one accompanied by inexperience. Of course we can kid ourselves that we know better, but do we? Just to underline Bluesky, that 'uneducated and inexperienced' refers to whether Player X has a hamstring niggle according to the physio, but 10 minutes at the end would do him good, or player Y has a cold, and would burn out if played on the wing etc etc. The bits 'fans' don't get to know. It's not about knowing how to run a club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcus jones Posted November 9, 2011 Report Share Posted November 9, 2011 Blue sky, does then football cease to become a business and return to being a sport first and foremost if most clubs are run at a loss? I mean I could hardly see, say Tesco or Vodafone or even British Gas keeping the same financial model if they they lose money year after year. Football being a sport, business or a plaything for the rich? An investment it is not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted November 9, 2011 Report Share Posted November 9, 2011 Blue sky, does then football cease to become a business and return to being a sport first and foremost if most clubs are run at a loss? I mean I could hardly see, say Tesco or Vodafone or even British Gas keeping the same financial model if they they lose money year after year. Football being a sport, business or a plaything for the rich? An investment it is not. There 'is' profit to be made, but the margins differ greatly from club to club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanchesterCity Posted November 9, 2011 Report Share Posted November 9, 2011 Just to underline Bluesky, that 'uneducated and inexperienced' refers to whether Player X has a hamstring niggle according to the physio, but 10 minutes at the end would do him good, or player Y has a cold, and would burn out if played on the wing etc etc. The bits 'fans' don't get to know. It's not about knowing how to run a club. Gotcha! my mistake. It looked liked they couldn't see issues with the business. Quite right that they aren't seeing what players are doing off the pitch, the effort, attitude and injuries etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanchesterCity Posted November 9, 2011 Report Share Posted November 9, 2011 Blue sky, does then football cease to become a business and return to being a sport first and foremost if most clubs are run at a loss? I mean I could hardly see, say Tesco or Vodafone or even British Gas keeping the same financial model if they they lose money year after year. Football being a sport, business or a plaything for the rich? An investment it is not. I really don't know. I have so many mixed emotions. There are aspect of 'business' that have brought clubs kicking and screaming in the 21st century and that's a good thing. Cleaner grounds, better facilities, more excitement (in some senses, but partly due to media hype too). So I'd like to cherry pick those aspects and keep them! But then there's the other aspects - Of all the money coming into the game from TV, the vast majority is going to players. Some of it has filtered into the positive things (above) but not a lot (by proportion). And I blame ourselves (the fans) too - for wanting success far too easily, or at ludicrous cost. Often wanting a new manager, or new players, and being careless of the consequence of spending hand over fist, season upon season. As soon as a board say "we're skint" - we want a takeover! I know all the arguments for the biggest clubs getting the most revenue (since they 'draw' all the TV support), but deep down, I think I'd like all the clubs to be more pragmatic and operate more as a collective - share the wealth more fairly, and curb the players wages etc. I simply feel things have gotten out of hand (as was predicted with the formation of the Premier League) - clubs got greedier and greedier, as did the fans, and now, most clubs are living on borrowings... from 'future earnings'. Essentially in debt. There's nothing wrong with debt per se, BUT much of the borrowing is based on the expectation that clubs won't go down, will stay in CL, or will continue to grow. We're seeing the growth of clubs slow down dramatically, and folks are realising 'OH SHIT'... those future earnings we borrowed against may not be realised!! Conscious of this being a Moyes thread (re: Avinalaff) - so don't want to harp on. I just think something is very wrong with the game when our very top clubs (like Leeds, and Everton, and many others) are struggling financially given the global revenues that football generates. Something is very very wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue 250 Posted November 9, 2011 Report Share Posted November 9, 2011 Bluesky!.....why the fuc% are you so interested in Evertons problems? surely the city forums are buzzing at the moment, you've spent billions, your top of the league, you're going to win(sorry buy) loads of trophies.......why oh why are you so bothered about Everton! Are we your little project. Even some of Citys best fans were pissed of with the price you were forced to pay for Lescott, and the fact that for the last couple of seasons were were beating you home and away........is it that now you've finally beaten us and are sitting pretty at the top that you are here gloating at our problems. You weren't here last season.........you just seem to always be around, why not on city forums? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanchesterCity Posted November 9, 2011 Report Share Posted November 9, 2011 Well, there are a couple of reasons. I love the game in general. So I support City - big deal, could be Oldham, Leeds, United... it doesn't matter. We got (seemingly) lucky with a wealthy buyer - but it could all go tits up tomorrow - it's happened to other clubs, might happen to us. I do go on City boards, but, for me, I talk to City fans at the match, I see it on telly, I don't really enjoy the same debate week in week out with my own fans. Some folks like drinking in the same pub for 20 years with the same folks - and others like trying different pubs and meeting different folks. I'm the sort that likes hearing what's going on in other clubs, what other fans are dealing with etc. Gloating at your problems? hmmm... it wasn't long ago City were in in the old 3rd division - so seeing a club in a mess is hardly fun, and to be fair, you're not even close to THOSE depths! What's to gloat at being the single City fan on here amongst a bunch of Evertonians? Hardly gonna be able to show off to friends and say "oh look at those Evertonians!"... there's nobody else in here but Everton (barring a handful of other fans). I think it's a cracking board. It's not huge, some decent mixed opinions and banter. I'm not going to deny enjoying the football at City - I've waited the best part of 40 years to see some success. I'm not comfortable with the money involved, but then I do believe it's ALWAYS been involved, and never really been 'fair'. Do I think what's happening at City is good for the game? - 90% sure it's not. But then I don't think Champions League (in the current form) is good for the game. I don't think TV money distribution is good for the game, and I don't think 70K a week for a player is any less indecent than 200K a week. Everton are one our games most enduring and successful clubs, so I think it should be in EVERY fans interest to take a close look at what goes on at the club. If we start seeing Everton decline, then in my mind that's a shocking indictment of the game - not of Everton and its fans. There may well come a day (for ALL clubs) when they need the help of other fans to help keep them going. If Man United were in trouble - I'd want to help them, if Everton were in trouble - the same. It would take a very bitter (and deluded fan) to think seeing other clubs fail makes their own better. It doesn't. It just hammers another nail in the game's coffin. Football is bigger than City, it's bigger than Everton it's bigger then any team. But without those teams - there is no football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue 250 Posted November 9, 2011 Report Share Posted November 9, 2011 You don't think £200,000 a week is more indecent than £70,000 a week!! ........I wish you were my boss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanchesterCity Posted November 9, 2011 Report Share Posted November 9, 2011 Well let me put it a different way... if some bloke shagged your g/f 3 times would you say "well at least it wasn't 5 times"? hehe But joking aside - I really do think all fans should take an interest in other clubs. The stuff that happens to 'fans' is largely beyond out control and we all seem like pawns in a game. It's not Arsenal fans fault they charge 1000 for a season ticket, it's not Leeds fans fault they overspent with O'Leary. It's not Everton's fans fault the money seems to disappear a bit quickly! An taking the p**s out of other clubs is always short term - things bite you on the arse. And my final word - City and Everton fans are very lucky in the grand scheme of things. You only have to imagine being an Accrington Stanley fan (or similar) to understand how far removed we are from a club that really IS living hand to mouth from week to week. (they've just laid of 40% of their staff). We've got it good when you think about it (but I'm all for a moan too!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFC-Paul Posted November 9, 2011 Report Share Posted November 9, 2011 (edited) I don't think He's gloating tbh mate, I think it's great that the forum has/does attract other supporters shows that some of the crap we spout is interesting I've enjoyed your view point on most things you have commented on here BlueSky you have some very constructive and sensible comments bud. Edited November 9, 2011 by EFC-Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanchesterCity Posted November 9, 2011 Report Share Posted November 9, 2011 I don't think He's gloating tbh mate, I think it's great that the forum has/does attract other supporters shows that some of the crap we spout is interesting I've enjoyed your view point on most things you have commented on here BlueSky you have some very constructive and sensible comments bud. Cheers! I do understand that when things aren't going great and you have fans from elsewhere here it's only natural to be a bit suspicious. I think any fan really worth their salt will see that almost every club and its fans go through the same stuff - regardless of money. The manger's decisions are still questionable, the effort the players are putting in, 'when is our stadium going to be made bigger?' and all the rest. Beside's City fans are rarely in a position to mock, coming from the Theatre of Base Comedy!... if anything can go wrong - it will. Now, I must dash - I have a work shy Argentinian to chase down. He failed to show up for work today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 I am happy that BlueSky posts on here as he seems to be almost intelligent (His choice of team to support ruins that impression a bit. ) The only thing that irritates me is THAT Avatar. Geezus it is horrific. Almost cured my constipation when I saw it the first time. But we seem to have wandered slightly off topic here. I voted NO because I can not think of a single football manager who I KNOW will do as good a job as David Moyes and is willing to come to a club with hardly two brass farthings to rub together. If we get the investment we keep hearing about, then we will see what DM is capable of. Until then I say keep what we have. On past seasons alone DM is worth being given the benefit of the doubt until we know better one way or the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Regulator Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 (edited) I am happy that BlueSky posts on here I voted NO because I can not think of a single football manager who I KNOW will do as good a job as David Moyes and is willing to come to a club with hardly two brass farthings to rub together. If we get the investment we keep hearing about, then we will see what DM is capable of. Until then I say keep what we have. On past seasons alone DM is worth being given the benefit of the doubt until we know better one way or the other. Same for me, BlueSky almost always gives evidence for his argument, instead of conjecture, and it's usually well thought out and well put so I'm happy with his contributions. On point, is it a case for some people then that we feel because we should be doing better, and no-one else wants the job, that Moyes is the best of a bad bunch? I don't want to go over points I've already made, but look at it this way, and maybe BlueSky can help with this. D'yu think that Man City fans, Man U fans, Arsenal fans, don't all have gripes about substitutions and tactics? I'm sure many Arsenal fans are aware of how bad a position they might be in without Van Persie, or how City fans may have chastised Mancini last season for playing so defensively a lot of the time? Yes we should be doing better, because we do have the players to do better, but don't you think Fulham fans, Bolton fans, Blackburn fans, don't all feel the same way? Blackburn as an example have played some very attacking football recently, and have been unlucky it seems against Chelsea and Norwich. Every single fan throughout every team in the Premier league has gripes. We're all entitled to them, we all have ways we think we'd run the team better were we managing the side. However we don't know which players are doing well in training and which aren't, who's worth risking and who's worth just holding back for the time being, we have to trust the manager to make the right decisions, and I know for a fact that when we're playing well we'll all still have the same shit to say about Moyes, but we won't care anywhere near as much because we're winning. He's always been the same, why this year, have we suddenly decided, well it's just not good enough? Get it right, we don't have a right to be in the top ten. we don't have a right to be in europe. We just think we do. We need to accept that at this point in time, we don't have the strength in depth or the goalscorers to get us that far, and we may have to settle this year for mid table obscurity. I know, it's a sad thing to look at, but really, Moyes has tried to keep us competitive and he can't do much more than he's already done...even with no money available he still managed to get a player like Drenthe in, doesn't that suggest that he knows what we're lacking and where we need improving? The other thing we may be forgetting, is that we need him more than he needs us right now. He is not bigger than Everton Football Club, no one person is, but if he left us now who could we get? I think we need to accept that we had money to invest, we had chances to go forward, we had runs in europe, but we just didn't get the job done. Now we have to sit back and watch other teams have a go until we get another shot. We will get another shot, and we won't be in a relegation battle, it's just this may be the year our finances get the better of us on the field. All the same we know the squad we have can produce much better performances than they have done, so why don't we start by backing the manager and the team, and letting them know that we just want them to do their best, and that's good enough? Edited November 10, 2011 by The Regulator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 Let's all make daisy chains and stop discussing things then eh? Oh, hello tumbleweed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Regulator Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 Let's all make daisy chains and stop discussing things then eh? Oh, hello tumbleweed. i didn't say stop discussing how things could be better, or what could be done, but this thread is about whether Moyes should go or not. I don't think he should based on the arguments put forward, and most people voted no as well. Like i said every team has gripes, whether there at the top or the bottom. i doubt man City fans were happy at conceding two against QPR or Chelsea fans were too happy almost drawing/potentially losing to Blackburn. Every fan feels they know what should be happening, just because it isn't for us, the blame doesn't all rest with the manager. As fans we have to do our part to, which is giving them backing when we are in the shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanchesterCity Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 I think he's done (and is doing) a great job. But (and this is not a view I hold towards Moyes)... sometimes things can just become stale (like a marriage) and it's not a case of anybody having done something wrong, it's just time for a change. I can see a case for that at Everton, but I think it would be a mistake (and costly). I totally agree about fans. I think we forget just how quickly we can change the mood of a club for good and bad. The off field problems though seem to be putting the fans on a downer, and so events on the pitch are harder to be inspired by when you're in a negative frame of mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 I think he's done (and is doing) a great job. But (and this is not a view I hold towards Moyes)... sometimes things can just become stale (like a marriage) and it's not a case of anybody having done something wrong, it's just time for a change. I can see a case for that at Everton, but I think it would be a mistake (and costly). I totally agree about fans. I think we forget just how quickly we can change the mood of a club for good and bad. The off field problems though seem to be putting the fans on a downer, and so events on the pitch are harder to be inspired by when you're in a negative frame of mind. Are you not a believer in the words 'for better or for worse' or 'through thick and thin' Bluesky? Unfortunately too many Evertonians seem to be running home to mummy instead of waiting for the good times to return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonButtle Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 Are you not a believer in the words 'for better or for worse' or 'through thick and thin' Bluesky? Unfortunately too many Evertonians seem to be running home to mummy instead of waiting for the good times to return. Maybe, that is because the current regime have had plenty of time to bring the good times back, but they have shown no sign of doing so, change is good every once in a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 Are you not a believer in the words 'for better or for worse' or 'through thick and thin' Bluesky? Unfortunately too many Evertonians seem to be running home to mummy instead of waiting for the good times to return. Av, Moyes is the third longest tenured manager in the prem - he started extremely brightly albeit showing some worrying tactical traits, none the less he transformed an old inherited team into a younger, fitter, efficient unit. Full marks, no doubt about that. A few years on from what you would call his best time, and his team is edging towards looking like the one he inherited, more worryingly he seems to have lost the energy, the team is very stale, one dimensional and flat. The time for a change is here, either within himself or within the role - one way or another it needs to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 Maybe, that is because the current regime have had plenty of time to bring the good times back, but they have shown no sign of doing so, change is good every once in a while. Have we not had a good 10 years under Moyes? I think the good times are still with us. We might not be winning titles, but we're hardly propping the division up every year either. We need to forget silverware. Silverware was a thing of the past, contested between teams that all had a good shout. Football is no longer an even playing field, and even if we were taken over, what about the other teams who aren't taken over? What of their fate? Are we so selfish as Everton fans that we hate the money in football, only if we aren't getting any, but if we do get some, then hey ho, I'm alright Jack? I don't think we are. Most would like a level playing field for all. Is the answer for 'all' teams to spend billions, just so players and agents etc get rich, or is the answer to bring the rich teams back down, and limit the spending of every team, meanwhile bringing the running costs of the game back down to earth? The problem isn't that Kenwright is skint. The problem is that football has been turned into a joke, and now multimillionaires can't afford to run their clubs, yet the expectancy of fans remains, despite knowing that the game is in a proper mess. Fans need to get a grip, and the governing bodies need to sanction a lot more than they are doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonButtle Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 Av, Moyes is the third longest tenured manager in the prem - he started extremely brightly albeit showing some worrying tactical traits, none the less he transformed an old inherited team into a younger, fitter, efficient unit. Full marks, no doubt about that. A few years on from what you would call his best time, and his team is edging towards looking like the one he inherited, more worryingly he seems to have lost the energy, the team is very stale, one dimensional and flat. The time for a change is here, either within himself or within the role - one way or another it needs to happen. fact is haf, i think some people are just scared of change(thats not aimed at you Av) its a general thing, but it is needed, we all know Moyes would probably have been sacked by now at most other clubs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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