Is it time for Moyes to go?

[Avinalaff]

 

That sounds like the Chinese kids who support David Beckham, not LA Galaxy.

 

Av, you are an Everton fan before a David Moyes fan surely.

 

Yes, indeed, but Moyes has a big place in my heart as a fan.

Without sounding controversial Steve, the biggest thing I hate about Everton are some of the fans. Not the older fans, who have been around the block, but this new breed of selfish insensitive 'world owes them a title' type fan. The type of fan who spend their lives on the Internet swearing and moaning, and blaming everything in sight for their lives incompletion's, yet many have never been to a match in their lives, nor could they hold a discussion about the club or football in general without first checking on Wikipedia. They're fans because it's trendy, not because of any emotional attachment, and their knowledge of real life is minimal, yet they'll confess to knowing everything about everything about football, and argue until they're blue in the face even when they're talking bollocks. Then there are the match going boo boys, and the coin and bottle throwers, or the spitters and abuse hurlers. Everton as a club is changing mate, and it will take a lot more than investment to put it right.

[Bill]

Ha Ha just listen to yourself Matt.

[Matt]

Ha Ha just listen to yourself Matt.

errr... ok.

[The Regulator]

Bill's been at the chang again

[Formby]

I knew you where a bit odd to say the least, 400 posts on here and only 90 posts on your own forum, very odd.

 

Specifically, why is it odd?

[StevO]

 

Yes, indeed, but Moyes has a big place in my heart as a fan.

Without sounding controversial Steve, the biggest thing I hate about Everton are some of the fans. Not the older fans, who have been around the block, but this new breed of selfish insensitive 'world owes them a title' type fan. The type of fan who spend their lives on the Internet swearing and moaning, and blaming everything in sight for their lives incompletion's, yet many have never been to a match in their lives, nor could they hold a discussion about the club or football in general without first checking on Wikipedia. They're fans because it's trendy, not because of any emotional attachment, and their knowledge of real life is minimal, yet they'll confess to knowing everything about everything about football, and argue until they're blue in the face even when they're talking bollocks. Then there are the match going boo boys, and the coin and bottle throwers, or the spitters and abuse hurlers. Everton as a club is changing mate, and it will take a lot more than investment to put it right.

 

Fair enough Av.

I dont disagree with any of what you say there.

 

Though i am in favour of change, im sure you can see from my own posts im more in favour of hard work. im sure we will both agree that we dont agree on a lot of things, but then how bored would we be if we did.

[Avinalaff]

 

Fair enough Av.

I dont disagree with any of what you say there.

 

Though i am in favour of change, im sure you can see from my own posts im more in favour of hard work. im sure we will both agree that we dont agree on a lot of things, but then how bored would we be if we did.

 

I'm straight enough to tell you if it was otherwise matey. I learn from folk disagreeing. I don't know it all, and always prepared to listen to other opinions, but I'm very logical, and find it hard to accept things which seem illogical, not that it applies to you, or anybody in particular.

 

Everybody wants a great team. Every fan in the country wants it, but we can't always have what we want.

 

Change what we can't accept and accept what we can't change.

[pete0]

 

Yes, indeed, but Moyes has a big place in my heart as a fan.

Without sounding controversial Steve, the biggest thing I hate about Everton are some of the fans. Not the older fans, who have been around the block, but this new breed of selfish insensitive 'world owes them a title' type fan. The type of fan who spend their lives on the Internet swearing and moaning, and blaming everything in sight for their lives incompletion's, yet many have never been to a match in their lives, nor could they hold a discussion about the club or football in general without first checking on Wikipedia. They're fans because it's trendy, not because of any emotional attachment, and their knowledge of real life is minimal, yet they'll confess to knowing everything about everything about football, and argue until they're blue in the face even when they're talking bollocks. Then there are the match going boo boys, and the coin and bottle throwers, or the spitters and abuse hurlers. Everton as a club is changing mate, and it will take a lot more than investment to put it right.

I'd like to believe Evertonians tend to buck the trend with the wiki fans. I only know one blue who'd never been the match before(quickly rectified) and knew little about the club.

[FanchesterCity]

I think every club's got them, and the more successful they are, the more they attract the kids who are deciding on a club for the first time (6 yrs and up?), 10 years on and they are turning up at games and acting like idiots.

 

TV / Internet's not helping either. 'Local' team is losing a lot of meaning now - with people moving further afield or working away from home. There's simply more and more fans who don't get to games, and there's 'weirdos' like me who'll go and watch Blackburn or Burnley if my team are away and there's someone decent playing there (it's my neck of the woods)

[pete0]

I think every club's got them, and the more successful they are, the more they attract the kids who are deciding on a club for the first time (6 yrs and up?), 10 years on and they are turning up at games and acting like idiots.

 

TV / Internet's not helping either. 'Local' team is losing a lot of meaning now - with people moving further afield or working away from home. There's simply more and more fans who don't get to games, and there's 'weirdos' like me who'll go and watch Blackburn or Burnley if my team are away and there's someone decent playing there (it's my neck of the woods)

I don't get to see the blues us much as i'd like but am one of them weirdo's still. Used to watch Man city kids when I lived by Platt fields, even went to a utd liverpool reserve match once.

[Avinalaff]

Here's a little smiley for those that know no better.

 

[Hafnia]

I think this thread summarises one thing: moyes isn't the superstar he's portrayed in media circles. He has qualities, however he has weaknesses, fundamental ones that show very little in the way of being tended to. what he has done in sustaining the clubs status, clearing deadwood and bring in some astute buys has been excellent. However his performance and style with a better team is very much lacking in tempo, style, creativity.

 

The likes of clough, shankley, and most recently wenger have faced the harsh side of footy management, this lot had a wee bit more in pedigree too. Moyes take note.

[marcus jones]

Here's a little smiley for those that know no better.

 

Got a Moyes one with a crown of thorns on its head?

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

I think this thread summarises one thing: moyes isn't the superstar he's portrayed in media circles. He has qualities, however he has weaknesses, fundamental ones that show very little in the way of being tended to. what he has done in sustaining the clubs status, clearing deadwood and bring in some astute buys has been excellent. However his performance and style with a better team is very much lacking in tempo, style, creativity.

 

The likes of clough, shankley, and most recently wenger have faced the harsh side of footy management, this lot had a wee bit more in pedigree too. Moyes take note.

 

 

I dont agree, I think it summarises what people think of him in this forum and what they percieve to be his failings, that doesnt mean its true

 

Everybody is entitled to their opinion but the thing that I find really confusing is that only 5 people want him to go. If he is guilty of even half the accusations then why on earth do people not want him sacked?

[Hafnia]

 

 

 

I dont agree, I think it summarises what people think of him in this forum and what they percieve to be his failings, that doesnt mean its true

 

Everybody is entitled to their opinion but the thing that I find really confusing is that only 5 people want him to go. If he is guilty of even half the accusations then why on earth do people not want him sacked?

 

I think if an option was put on there saying "if he carries on like this he can pack his bags" then that would get a fair few votes.

 

Moyes deserves loyalty, of course he does. But believe me, he is using that at the moment and people are looking for signs of improvement.

 

This team can not continue in the same approach and tactics. Change is required, we are so dull it is untrue, predictable and toothless. He is paid £70k a week to manage, and given his limited resources he is still underachieving.

[Bill]

I think if an option was put on there saying "if he carries on like this he can pack his bags" then that would get a fair few votes.

 

Moyes deserves loyalty, of course he does. But believe me, he is using that at the moment and people are looking for signs of improvement.

 

This team can not continue in the same approach and tactics. Change is required, we are so dull it is untrue, predictable and toothless. He is paid £70k a week to manage, and given his limited resources he is still underachieving.

 

I dont know how you can say that Haf, by your own admission he has limited resources, so limited that we were the only club not to spend a penny in the summer, and are probably the lowest spenders in the last 5 years, Given those figures and knowing how many times we have been top 6 in those years i'd say we are still overachieving.

 

Moyes has to be commended on keeping Everton alive, 25 mill for Rooney, 24 mill for Lescott, 10 mill for Arteta, and 5mill for McFaddy plus quite a few others. Imagine what state the club would be without that £64 million.

 

And he is still going strong, we have a squad that will get us to the top half of the table, with several players in the £20 million bracket, under achieving ?? i think not. The mere fact that we are still in the premier must tell you that.

[Avinalaff]

I think this thread summarises one thing: moyes isn't the superstar he's portrayed in media circles. He has qualities, however he has weaknesses, fundamental ones that show very little in the way of being tended to. what he has done in sustaining the clubs status, clearing deadwood and bring in some astute buys has been excellent. However his performance and style with a better team is very much lacking in tempo, style, creativity.

 

The likes of clough, shankley, and most recently wenger have faced the harsh side of footy management, this lot had a wee bit more in pedigree too. Moyes take note.

 

Behave Haf, honestly mate.

 

This forum is kept going by about 20-30 people every day, and there are split feelings amongst those people. It's hardly a vote of confidence from the Everton fans.

[Hafnia]

Bill / Av, moyes despite the ridiculous money he has had to operate he has internationals in almost every position!!! That is credit to him but it is also a benchmark that he is judged by. Being a footy manager is a tough and very well rewarded job but moyes seems to be overplaying the martyr - yes liverpool and city and other teams have spent money - the team he has can and should play better stuff.

[Avinalaff]

Got a Moyes one with a crown of thorns on its head?

 

[Hafnia]

 

 

 

Seriously bad taste - get a grip.

[Avinalaff]

Seriously bad taste - get a grip.

 

Bad taste my arse Haf, and it's YOU that needs to get a grip mate.

[Hafnia]

 

 

Bad taste my arse Haf, and it's YOU that needs to get a grip mate.

 

There are certain territories you don't venture into and you just did. Leave it at that.

[FanchesterCity]

You leave Eastlands out of this!

[Avinalaff]

There are certain territories you don't venture into and you just did. Leave it at that.

 

Haf, you have a moan at just about everything. Go make yourself a cuppa.

 

There was a request for the image, so I created one. Get over it.

[Hafnia]

 

 

Haf, you have a moan at just about everything. Go make yourself a cuppa.

 

There was a request for the image, so I created one. Get over it.

 

My mood is at least consistent as is my decision making. Yours on the other hand???

 

If you can't see the potential to offend with that image then you are a stupid and as uninformed as a flute playing paul gascoigne.

[FanchesterCity]

Back to football though:

 

I think it's generally accepted Moyes = First class job with the money he's had. Consistent top 5-8 finisher whilst spending less than virtually all other teams.

 

However, Moyes does have a serious advantage in terms of attracting players: Everton are more attractive to players who want to play for a big name club. Wigan or Everton? - no contest really, so I think it's fair to say he can attract 'the best of the rest' (outside the other big names who DO have money)

 

I can't really see how anybody can say Moyes has done a 'bad' job. Certainly there is nothing to suggest he deserves the sack.

 

I CAN see an argument for 'needing a change' - simply as a catalyst for a new era - but it would be silly to do that right now if the club are looking to sell. Whoever buys Everton will initiate that process themselves.

 

But this ALL just points more and more to the question - WHY hasn't he had the money. He's brought plenty in (at the cost of losing some great players). it's not just over a one bad year, it's year on year - the same story. WTF is the money going? (Yes I know much is loans).

 

If we take a similar (not in stature) club without a super rich owner - let's say Wolves, West Brom, Bolton et al - what is it that those clubs are doing to keep themselves afloat that Everton aren't / can't? None of those clubs bring in the game receipts that Everton do, and I can't believe for one moment they buy more mechandise either. Everton consistently come higher in the league so get more money for that too. It all adds up to more money coming in, and less money available.

 

Before anybody can pick holes in Moyes (and there's always some holes to pick), there's the HUGE issue of the elephant in the room - the owners.

[Avinalaff]

My mood is at least consistent as is my decision making. Yours on the other hand???

 

If you can't see the potential to offend with that image then you are a stupid and as uninformed as a flute playing paul gascoigne.

 

Yeah ok mate.

I didn't see you comment at the original suggestion though, so that's your consistency theory right out the window.

 

Do me a favour bud, and put me on ignore, and I'll do the same. Cheers.

[FanchesterCity]

No fighting on the terraces!

[Hafnia]

 

 

Yeah ok mate.

I didn't see you comment at the original suggestion though, so that's your consistency theory right out the window.

 

Do me a favour bud, and put me on ignore, and I'll do the same. Cheers.

 

On the basis that you do exactly as suggested by others how's about taking my point on board?

 

I'm sorry that my post has potentially put a little water on your bonfire when you were probably expecting wow wee's and clever boy shouts. It's clear a little criticism wounds you? Well that's just tough, stick to football and leave iconoclasm out of your posts.

 

Trust me I hate the PC brigade more than anyone, however there are areas you dont go.

[Avinalaff]

On the basis that you do exactly as suggested by others how's about taking my point on board?

 

I'm sorry that my post has potentially put a little water on your bonfire when you were probably expecting wow wee's and clever boy shouts. It's clear a little criticism wounds you? Well that's just tough, stick to football and leave iconoclasm out of your posts.

 

Trust me I hate the PC brigade more than anyone, however there are areas you dont go.

 

No mate. You have it wrong. I just think you're starting to get on my tits with your constant whinging. Nothing to do with criticism. I've never met anybody so utterly negative in my time on forums, and it's starting to wear thin mate, so rather than fall out with you, I'm going to do the decent thing and not correspond with you for a while. This way, nobody falls out and the forum isn't spoilt by arguments. You're a nice enough lad but you're starting to do my head in. It's not good for my health to continue reading your posts, so I'm going to put you on ignore. Sorry bud. All the best.