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On 06/06/2019 at 22:23, Elston Gunnn said:

Two massive giveaways by Stones and Barkley allow Netherlands to win.  Embarrassing, both.

Good match.  Youthful Netherlands v. Ronaldo on Sunday.

I though that Stones dropped Barkley right in it. Passed to him when he was on edge of the box facing goal and a man on his back, Stones was responsible for all 3 goals IMO, shocking night from him. The whole team needs to learn when to play out from the back and when to lump it.

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1 hour ago, Wiggytop said:

I though that Stones dropped Barkley right in it. Passed to him when he was on edge of the box facing goal and a man on his back, Stones was responsible for all 3 goals IMO, shocking night from him. The whole team needs to learn when to play out from the back and when to lump it.

The self destruct button was definitely pressed by Stones that night, I wasn’t all that surprised by how he was caught out we’ve seen that a good few times for us. 

Thats part of who he is and how he wants to play the game it won’t change, managers will have to weigh up is good points against his bad and make a decision, but I’d have him back here in a heartbeat. 

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1 hour ago, Palfy said:

The self destruct button was definitely pressed by Stones that night, I wasn’t all that surprised by how he was caught out we’ve seen that a good few times for us. 

Thats part of who he is and how he wants to play the game it won’t change, managers will have to weigh up is good points against his bad and make a decision, but I’d have him back here in a heartbeat. 

Me too

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OK so the Italian goal in the Women's World Cup that followed this was ruled out by VAR for offside. Certainly the Italian's upper half was offside but her feet were most certainly not, what's the rule on this? I'm assuming it must go on forward most position of whole body but surely as it's football and her progress to goal relied on her foot speed the decision ought to be based on where her feet were should it not? Goal shouldn't be ruled out because her left shoulder was off. Madness.Capture.JPG

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14 minutes ago, MikeO said:

OK so the Italian goal in the Women's World Cup that followed this was ruled out by VAR for offside. Certainly the Italian's upper half was offside but her feet were most certainly not, what's the rule on this? I'm assuming it must go on forward most position of whole body but surely as it's football and her progress to goal relied on her foot speed the decision ought to be based on where her feet were should it not? Goal shouldn't be ruled out because her left shoulder was off. Madness.Capture.JPG

Your correct.

Don't mind the rule though as having your shoulder forward gives you momentum to beat the defender to the ball. They should've timed their run better. 

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2 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Your correct.

Don't mind the rule though as having your shoulder forward gives you momentum to beat the defender to the ball. They should've timed their run better. 

Point taken but I still think it's wrong. Like you say it's down to the timing of the run (achieved by where you put your feet), which I think in this case was perfect. By the logic of the law as it stands (I trust you to be right on that) if the Australian defender happened to be pointing towards goal with her left arm marshalling a team-mate then it would've been allowed because the Italian was "on" by a well manicured fingernail. If that's the law then for me it needs to be changed.

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Can’t be doing with your foot is slightly ahead of someone so your offside bollocks. The game is supposed to favour attacking football, it should go back to daylight between players. Great scenes the other night when Lingard scored and it just deflates you with that VAR bollocks 

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45 minutes ago, MikeO said:

Point taken but I still think it's wrong. Like you say it's down to the timing of the run (achieved by where you put your feet), which I think in this case was perfect. By the logic of the law as it stands (I trust you to be right on that) if the Australian defender happened to be pointing towards goal with her left arm marshalling a team-mate then it would've been allowed because the Italian was "on" by a well manicured fingernail. If that's the law then for me it needs to be changed.

Yep, it's harsh but for me the defender would know it was their fault and blame themselves rather than the rules. For me the defence keep a line so if the striker breaks it then it'd be offside or if the defender broke it by pointing then they've kept you onside. 

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Thinking I'm not going to like VAR as it stands, England's women get a penalty for a handball that only one player appealed for for maybe a quarter of the second and all 22 played on quite happily; the girl who put in the cross that was "handled" didn't register any protest at all and ref and linos carried on without a second thought. Then the VAR official called a halt. That can't be right surely? Maybe we should go down the route of tennis and cricket and limit the amount of appeals each team can have and once they're out of failed ones it's "umpires call".

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25 minutes ago, MikeO said:

Thinking I'm not going to like VAR as it stands, England's women get a penalty for a handball that only one player appealed for for maybe a quarter of the second and all 22 played on quite happily; the girl who put in the cross that was "handled" didn't register any protest at all and ref and linos carried on without a second thought. Then the VAR official called a halt. That can't be right surely? Maybe we should go down the route of tennis and cricket and limit the amount of appeals each team can have and once they're out of failed ones it's "umpires call".

How about no technology in any sport and you just have to accept the decisions given, nearly all sports have flourished and not floundered in the years before any of these technologies came into being.

I’m still a great believer that human errors add to the whole emotional experience and connection with the supporters of their chosen sports, sanitising it to the degrees we are I feel is going to take away some of the things we enjoy discussing, yes bad decisions can hurt but they can also in equal measures bring joy. 

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20 hours ago, MikeO said:

Thinking I'm not going to like VAR as it stands, England's women get a penalty for a handball that only one player appealed for for maybe a quarter of the second and all 22 played on quite happily; the girl who put in the cross that was "handled" didn't register any protest at all and ref and linos carried on without a second thought. Then the VAR official called a halt. That can't be right surely? Maybe we should go down the route of tennis and cricket and limit the amount of appeals each team can have and once they're out of failed ones it's "umpires call".

The new handball rule is a joke. Man U and Liverpool both shouldn't have got theirs in the champions league. 

The numpties running the game think more goals will attract more fans, why they made the offside rule more complicated too with the different phases of play bollocks. Think pretty much every fan other than the kopites would agree that penalty they got should never be and ruined the game. 

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3 hours ago, MikeO said:

OK so the Italian goal in the Women's World Cup that followed this was ruled out by VAR for offside. Certainly the Italian's upper half was offside but her feet were most certainly not, what's the rule on this? I'm assuming it must go on forward most position of whole body but surely as it's football and her progress to goal relied on her foot speed the decision ought to be based on where her feet were should it not? Goal shouldn't be ruled out because her left shoulder was off. Madness.Capture.JPG

If any part of your body that you can score a goal with is ahead of the play it’s offside. You can score with your shoulder, so offside. 

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46 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

If any part of your body that you can score a goal with is ahead of the play it’s offside. You can score with your shoulder, so offside. 

Not disagreeing with the decision having had the rule explained, just disagreeing with the rule.

Was not that many years ago when officials were told to give the benefit of any doubt to the striker, they keep moving the goalposts.

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4 hours ago, MikeO said:

Not disagreeing with the decision having had the rule explained, just disagreeing with the rule.

Was not that many years ago when officials were told to give the benefit of any doubt to the striker, they keep moving the goalposts.

I don’t really see what there is to disagree with tbh. 

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16 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

But why? Unless you're wanting it to be so that you can only score a goal with your foot?

In my view your position on the pitch should be dictated by where you're standing. The reason teams wear different coloured socks so the linesmen (in old money) could differentiate between teams by looking at them. If (for example) Arsenal were playing Spurs all 40 shoulders on the pitch would be white, and you can score off your arse but teams play each other in the same colour. I just think it's daft, if it's the rule it's the rule but I don't think it should be.

 

Capture.JPG

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23 hours ago, MikeO said:

Not disagreeing with the decision having had the rule explained, just disagreeing with the rule.

Was not that many years ago when officials were told to give the benefit of any doubt to the striker, they keep moving the goalposts.

But this is why VAR is spoiling it there is no benefit of doubt it's been taken away.

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On 10/06/2019 at 19:44, Palfy said:

But this is why VAR is spoiling it there is no benefit of doubt it's been taken away.

It only spoils it if you support the team attacking. If we conceded a goal that was offside be it all close we’d be screaming at the lineman and posting on here in rage. I personally think VAR will benefit those outside the Sky 6 more than those considered the top 6. 

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3 hours ago, barryj said:

It only spoils it if you support the team attacking. If we conceded a goal that was offside be it all close we’d be screaming at the lineman and posting on here in rage. I personally think VAR will benefit those outside the Sky 6 more than those considered the top 6. 

Yes we would but also if were given a goal that was offside we would be celebrating equally as hard, personally I think the game is better without VAR the iffy decisions make us more emotionally involved by creating discussion and interactions between fans. 

For me football needs to have that side to it where human error plays apart, we have saying that football is like life and in life mistakes happen and they add to the rich tapestry and reality of who we are, so let’s stop trying to sterilise it because it hasn’t done to bad in the last 140 odd years has it. 

And surly this women’s World Cup has proven what a disaster it is with more discussion about the poor use of and decisions of VAR how boring. 

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16 hours ago, Palfy said:

And surly this women’s World Cup has proven what a disaster it is with more discussion about the poor use of and decisions of VAR how boring. 

Probably in a minority watching England tonight but on our way to the semis, brilliant strike for the third goal and VAR completely unused after more than an hour. I know some people put the women's game down but it's come so far in recent years, bring on France or the US:P.

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7 minutes ago, MikeO said:

Probably in a minority watching England tonight but on our way to the semis, brilliant strike for the third goal and VAR completely unused after more than an hour. I know some people put the women's game down but it's come so far in recent years, bring on France or the US:P.

I’ve watched most games woman’s football is getting much better, excuse me please Mike I’ve got a Pasta bake in the oven and the washing machine has just finished 🙄

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Just now, Palfy said:

I’ve watched most games woman’s football is getting much better, excuse me please Mike I’ve got a Pasta bake in the oven and the washing machine has just finished 🙄

I'd demand a VAR check on your pasta bake personally, are you sure your timing is right?

I remember the days (as will you if you watched) when the old cup final was the only game on TV and it was like a primary school match, you were lucky if a goal kick cleared the penalty area or a penalty reached the goal without two bounces. Night and day from what it is now.

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19 minutes ago, MikeO said:

Probably in a minority watching England tonight but on our way to the semis, brilliant strike for the third goal and VAR completely unused after more than an hour. I know some people put the women's game down but it's come so far in recent years, bring on France or the US:P.

yeah i follow the US because they are in the tops of the rankings and tourneys always.  england has come on well since last world cup i think you guys got 4th.  its nice to see your ladies taking it seriously and improving their game.  US has france and it should be a good match

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1 minute ago, MikeO said:

I'd demand a VAR check on your pasta bake personally, are you sure your timing is right?

I remember the days (as will you if you watched) when the old cup final was the only game on TV and it was like a primary school match, you were lucky if a goal kick cleared the penalty area or a penalty reached the goal without two bounces. Night and day from what it is now.

Perfectly put no comparison from the early days till now. 

Are we what they call metro sexual males in today’s society, I think that’s the right terminology if not we could be going out tomorrow night 🙈

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2 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

yeah i follow the US because they are in the tops of the rankings and tourneys always.  england has come on well since last world cup i think you guys got 4th.  its nice to see your ladies taking it seriously and improving their game.  US has france and it should be a good match

3rd.

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2 hours ago, MikeO said:

I'd demand a VAR check on your pasta bake personally, are you sure your timing is right?

I remember the days (as will you if you watched) when the old cup final was the only game on TV and it was like a primary school match, you were lucky if a goal kick cleared the penalty area or a penalty reached the goal without two bounces. Night and day from what it is now.

Defensively we look woeful though. I’d expect USA and France to both take us apart if that’s our usual standard. 

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4 minutes ago, Gwlad all over said:

The lad Neville and his girls doing well but it's the same old with the press. Interviews and news articles, harp on about his time at the Mancs, no mention of being here for 8 years and being captain.

There was a really good interview with him in the members area of Everton TV a week or so ago on his time here, seven or eight minutes long and he said some great stuff about the club, shame it's not on Youtube.

Actually looking at it again now seems it's available to all:).

https://www.evertonfc.com/video/1244631#

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26 minutes ago, MikeO said:

 

Really don't see what the problem is. If you're offside, you're offside. Same as the goal line, it's in or it's not. Black and white calls that shouldn't cause much controversy. 

The phases of play bollocks can do one though. That part of the offside rule is unnecessarily grey. 

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On 03/07/2019 at 18:04, pete0 said:

Really don't see what the problem is. If you're offside, you're offside. Same as the goal line, it's in or it's not. Black and white calls that shouldn't cause much controversy. 

The phases of play bollocks can do one though. That part of the offside rule is unnecessarily grey. 

Isnt the measurement different depending on where the image is taken from? Think Chelsea had conflicting images in a League Cup game this year, although not sure how closely it was looked at. There also isnt a measurement on offsides as here is on goal line technology and how can you say from that image that the pass has definitely left the foot of the passing player? 

I agree re phases of play though. In the Colombia game (women) their right back was deepest because of the England attacker being offside. Should have been called as affecting the play IMO.

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13 minutes ago, Bailey said:

Isnt the measurement different depending on where the image is taken from? Think Chelsea had conflicting images in a League Cup game this year, although not sure how closely it was looked at. There also isnt a measurement on offsides as here is on goal line technology and how can you say from that image that the pass has definitely left the foot of the passing player? 

I agree re phases of play though. In the Colombia game (women) their right back was deepest because of the England attacker being offside. Should have been called as affecting the play IMO.

Pictures can make it look iffy but with tech they should be able to work out the geometry quite easily. I assume they must do a frame by frame with a line extended from the furthest player forward/back rather than just the solo image. You have point about the ball leaving the foot, don't know if there is a definition for that, could either be when there is clear daylight between the boot and ball or the moment just before. Imagine that they use the latter. 

Silly rule. 

Sorry to go on a complete tangent but just stumbled across a bit of unrelated football trivia when searching for the Bill Shankley quote. Knew the pitch size thing but the other stuff, I thought the Germans weren't meant to have a sense of humour. 

“See, you are only allowed to use an official alias, which in Germany is even written in your passport and is called ‘Künstlername’ – ‘artist’s pseudonym’. The catch is that you actually have to prove that you’re an artist, and there is the beautiful story of Hertha BSC legend Andreas Neuendorf, who actually produced (and signed) two oil paintings and sold them before witnesses in order to have his monicker ‘Zecke’ in his passport and on the back of his jersey in 2002 (‘Zecke’ means ‘tick’, his nickname ever since he almost died from a tick bite in 1994). This rule has been softened since,... "

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/aug/17/when-football-teams-reduce-their-pitch-size-to-counter-opponents

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Madagascar fan tonight, rank outsiders though, love this..

 

'If we stop here, that is also very good'

Madagascar v Tunisia (20:00 BST)

Madagascar boss Nicolas Dupuis also coaches French fourth tier club FC Fleury.

He says his salary from the Madagascar job "does not give me the minimal financial means to live".

Their aim when the tournament started was more understated. "We did not want to be ridiculed and we wanted to be worthy of the event," he said.

"We remain humble and lucid and aware that we will play against the 25th-ranked team which is complicated for the little Madagascar.

"We want to go as far as possible but if we stop here, that is also very good."

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Europa League needs looking at (as does CL); starting this early with so many entrants is absurd; playing today are such giants as B36 Tórshavn, RoPS Rovaniemi, Pyunik, Shkupi, Ordabasy, Torpedo Kutaisi, Teuta Durrës, Alashkert, Petrocub-Hincesti, Laci, Trans, Flora, Radnicki Nis, KuPS Kuopi, FC Vitebsk, and Sabail; I could go on but those are just a few that I've never heard of in fifty years of following European competitions.

I think it needs complete restructuring, maybe a lower level trophy for sides like this to actually compete in. Personally, that aside, I'd like it to go back to the way it was, Champions League (European Cup) competed for by Champions only, as the name suggests (I realise you can't put the genie back in the bottle so no chance of it ever happening); Cup Winners' Cup reinstated for Cup Winners and the third tier which has been known as Inter-Cities Fairs Cup/UEFA/Europa over the years drastically streamlined.

Pissing into the wind on this I know but just my musings.

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1 hour ago, johnh said:

Notts County, the oldest football league club looks like folding..  11 days to find a buyer of a club with mountainous debts. 157 years of tradition count for nothing where money is concerned.

Very sad if it happens, hopefully someone with deep pockets will come to their rescue in time.

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2 hours ago, Matt said:

What is the ref doing?!

Looks to me like he's telling them to play on (beckoning), then warning the 'keeper not to leave his area carrying the ball (pointing) then giving a free kick against him when he does.

 

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4 minutes ago, MikeO said:

Looks to me like he's telling them to play on (beckoning), then warning the 'keeper not to leave his area carrying the ball (pointing) then giving a free kick against him when he does.

 

I saw it as “come here, I want a word”. Really bad reffing in my opinion 

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1 hour ago, MikeO said:

If he'd have wanted a word he wouldn't have been backing away would he?

 

Seen it many times where the ref gets the players to come to him with those hand gestures. Only thing the goalie is guilty of is that stupid kick

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