Romey 1878 Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 http://www.toffeeweb.com/season/13-14/news/25132.html Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 are we allowed a thread for youth development? contentious topic isnt it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 http://www.toffeeweb.com/season/13-14/news/25132.html I'm loving your last two links Romey - like music to my ears. "our head of Youth Development Alan Irvine and Roberto will tell you that at a point when a player is on the cusp of professional football it seems rather perverse to slow down their development. We should be accelerating and intensifying it at a time when technical development is still really, really important" I think its fair to say that maybe Martinez wonders how Mcmanaman was released as a 16 year old... maybe wonders how Duffy despite showing great promise in the 3 games "he had" to play has not progressed or had any other first team football, maybe wonders how a talent like Barkley is no further along in his development... Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted July 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 This article in particular is music to my ears. I'd love us to make even more of a go of our youth set-up. If we're not going to find a wealthy owner then we have to optimise our world class youth facilities and develop the kids as much as possible. Then we either reap the benefits in the first team and push ourselves further up the table and maybe earn ourselves that elusive buyer, or we sell a few kids for big money and reinvest in youth development or buy players to supplement what we already have. Bailey and Sideliner 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 This article in particular is music to my ears. I'd love us to make even more of a go of our youth set-up. If we're not going to find a wealthy owner then we have to optimise our world class youth facilities and develop the kids as much as possible. Then we either reap the benefits in the first team and push ourselves further up the table and maybe earn ourselves that elusive buyer, or we sell a few kids for big money and reinvest in youth development or buy players to supplement what we already have. Maybe then Elstone can have some weight behind his 85p in every £1 going into Finch Farm... at the moment its like the money has been spent on emerdale farm for all the youth talent we've seen emerge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
efc1111 Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 It's good that they're singing from the same hymn sheet as this is something Martinez mentioned in his first interviews. He thinks the transition from academy to first team is generally poor in this country and wants to improve our own record in this area, and if you watched the interview with new development coach Dennis Lawrence on the OS last week this is clearly something he has been brought in to help with too. I wish I could find the interview, but Martinez also said that he wants to change the emphasis in youth development towards a better balance of skills and physical strength, as too often in this country the smaller and more technical players can be overshadowed by the early developers. I'd say the future's bright for our academy lads and if they're good enough they'll get every opportunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 Maybe Ross Barkley, Shane Duffy and Vellios can do a blog called: "3 years, 5 months and 2 days in the life of...." Detailing the life of a potential wonderkid playing for the reserves and watching the likes of Naismith, Hitzlesburger and Neville show them how its done wearing lead wellies.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sideliner Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 this approach could be a great step towards solving English football's current lack of junior talent in numbers - Southampton have done excellent work with their academy - maybe Martinez must pay them a courtesy visit Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 The music to my ears is that Irvine is still here!! I thought he'd gone?! Awesome. Glad Roberto's kicking the youth academy up the arse. Liking him a little more, each passing day (minus the tedious links to ex-players). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted July 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 Talking of youth development; I've just read on SSN that Neil Dewsnip has joined the England youth coaching ranks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 The Nexten Series has been knocked down a peg following the creation of this competition: http://www.uefa.com/uefayouthleague/index.html It's basically an U19 competition of the group stage Champions League teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicky Milloy Scanlon Posted July 21, 2013 Report Share Posted July 21, 2013 It was nice to see Martinez at the under 21's game today down at forest, it seemed to give the lads a boost knowing he was watching. Quinn31 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quinn31 Posted July 21, 2013 Report Share Posted July 21, 2013 It was nice to see Martinez at the under 21's game today down at forest, it seemed to give the lads a boost knowing he was watching. Just hope some of the lads are good enough to play. It takes something special to make it as a Premier League player. James Vaughan, Dan Gosling, Adam Forshaw, Jose Baxter, James Wallace, and others were all highly highly rated prospects and none of em have cut it in the Premier League. Good to see Martinez is at least giving the youth as much attention as he can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonButtle Posted July 21, 2013 Report Share Posted July 21, 2013 Just hope some of the lads are good enough to play. It takes something special to make it as a Premier League player. James Vaughan, Dan Gosling, Adam Forshaw, Jose Baxter, James Wallace, and others were all highly highly rated prospects and none of em have cut it in the Premier League. Good to see Martinez is at least giving the youth as much attention as he can. I still have a feeling that Baxter may come back to haunt us one day, and Vaughan was unlucky with injuries to be fair to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quinn31 Posted July 21, 2013 Report Share Posted July 21, 2013 I still have a feeling that Baxter may come back to haunt us one day, and Vaughan was unlucky with injuries to be fair to him. I may agree with you about Baxter... He lit up League 1 last year with a poor team, I think he'll settle in the Championship at a minimum, and may make it at a lower half Premiership club one day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted July 21, 2013 Report Share Posted July 21, 2013 Just hope some of the lads are good enough to play. It takes something special to make it as a Premier League player. James Vaughan, Dan Gosling, Adam Forshaw, Jose Baxter, James Wallace, and others were all highly highly rated prospects and none of em have cut it in the Premier League. Good to see Martinez is at least giving the youth as much attention as he can. Two plighted with injuries, and the rest are developing well with time still on their side. Wouldn't be surprised to see them all (bar Gosling) in the prem. Everton probably have the best youth system in the prem, yet our reluctance to use them in the last decade is mind boggling. Ruddy Gosling Dunne Jags Baines Barton Akpan Rodwell McManaman Rooney Vaughan A full eleven on prem books last year, of which only one was reluctantly sold. Jutiewics, Wallace, and Baxter making waves and few more experienced former youths now established players in the lower leagues. I'd question the old management team (for not transitioning players into the first team) being good enough, more than the youth players themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quinn31 Posted July 21, 2013 Report Share Posted July 21, 2013 Two plighted with injuries, and the rest are developing well with time still on their side. Wouldn't be surprised to see them all (bar Gosling) in the prem. Everton probably have the best youth system in the prem, yet our reluctance to use them in the last decade is mind boggling. Ruddy Gosling Dunne Jags Baines Barton Akpan Rodwell McManaman Rooney Vaughan A full eleven on prem books last year, of which only one was reluctantly sold. Jutiewics, Wallace, and Baxter making waves and few more experienced former youths now established players in the lower leagues. I'd question the old management team (for not transitioning players into the first team) being good enough, more than the youth players themselves. Disagree strongly. Almost no academy puts out large amounts of Premier League players each year. Not every promising youngster will continue to develop to be a Premiership caliber player. That's an overly glass half full outlook you have there. Just because someone is established in the lower leagues doesn't mean they are good enough for the Premier League. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted July 21, 2013 Report Share Posted July 21, 2013 Disagree strongly. Almost no academy puts out large amounts of Premier League players each year. Not every promising youngster will continue to develop to be a Premiership caliber player. That's an overly glass half full outlook you have there. Just because someone is established in the lower leagues doesn't mean they are good enough for the Premier League. They need a chance to develop, they never got that here unless the kid was WC. Eg. Moyes bringing an emergency loan in rather than give Ruddy a chance, clubs neglected the youth from the first team for far too long only giving the non WC the odd minute unless every senior player was injured they never got a chance with Moyes preferring his square peg round hole method. Duffy back for one game (that he played well in) then dropping him for Tony Hibbert was shocking. Imagine if we didn't have a rb crisis Coleman would still be running straight into players on the RW, or even worse we'd never ran out of centre mids to play on the right he'd probably only have the Benfica lb disaster game to his name. How many youths were given a proper chance at Everton in the last 5 years compared to other clubs? Never going to develop another Osman or Hibbert using the old system, good thing the squad was old when Moyes first got here otherwise they'd just be labeled as youths who just weren't good enough too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sideliner Posted July 21, 2013 Report Share Posted July 21, 2013 excellent talent scouting for the acadamy is just as important - we should only recruit the cream of the crop and look all over the world - offering scholarships to young stars from Africa , the Americas ,and the East could benefit the club and the youngster - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted July 21, 2013 Report Share Posted July 21, 2013 Would people be happy with a situation where the academy graduates were from another continent ? Also, it's worth pointing out that: FIFA only allow players to sign over the age of 18 (there are workarounds - such as parents moving for work) The British Home Office will only offer work permits to exceptional talents/those who have played in a high percentage of games for their national team, providing that the natioal team is in the top 75 of FIFA rankings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted July 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2013 Would people be happy with a situation where the academy graduates were from another continent ? I don't care where they're from as long as they're good. Lowensda, Matt and Quinn31 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted July 21, 2013 Report Share Posted July 21, 2013 (edited) Agree with Mark, although for the English national team, it's nice to have English talent coming through the ranks. Edited July 21, 2013 by tenaciousj Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sideliner Posted July 21, 2013 Report Share Posted July 21, 2013 many countries have players playing for them without having been born there - look at the England cricket side - many South African born players have been playing for them recently - I cannot really seeing the difference in buying a 15 year old player compared to a 25 year old player - they eventually become Englishmen after 4 or 5 years don't they ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted July 21, 2013 Report Share Posted July 21, 2013 Here the million dollar question "if your son had the talent of Ross Barkley, would you trust Moyes to nurture him?" My answer would be a humongous NO. He uses the nativity and propensity to make mistakes as an excuse not to trust them opposed to the rawness and unpredictability to create a chance. For me there aren't a great number of managers who do actually develop talent, but Moyes ain't one. I do however think Martinez is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sideliner Posted July 21, 2013 Report Share Posted July 21, 2013 I have a feeling that Barkley might be blossoming under Martinez - I hope Everton does not have a release clause on him - in my humble opinion he shows great potential - and should have been playing much more than he did Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted July 21, 2013 Report Share Posted July 21, 2013 I'm sure I read that only about 1% of lads coming through premier league teams actually end up as premier league players. Everton has a rate of about 10% who make a career out of professional football at any level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted July 21, 2013 Report Share Posted July 21, 2013 I doubt it's 10% Steve, That seems far too high. many countries have players playing for them without having been born there -look at the England cricket side -many South African born players have been playing for them recently -I cannot really seeing the difference in buying a 15 year old player compared to a 25 year old player -they eventually become Englishmen after 4 or 5 years don't they ? The FA have rules in place to stop this happening in football, it's informally known as the Home Nations Agreement. Without it, many English players would end up playing for Wales (Leon Britton) / Scotland (Gary Hooper) based on residency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted July 21, 2013 Report Share Posted July 21, 2013 I have a feeling that Barkley might be blossoming under Martinez - I hope Everton does not have a release clause on him - in my humble opinion he shows great potential - and should have been playing much more than he did My brother played to a high level and should really have made it, he lost out due to the "too small" tag. This was 1982-83 and had just bossed a game for tranmere in a trial, his best one despite playing for Cardiff, both bristols, Wigan (ironically), Wrexham. For Wrexham or cardiff he played against an old welsh international... His words were along the lines of "Fooking forget it, he played with two feet, his head was up looking at the field all the time, he could pass it, receive it under pressure and you couldn't put him on one foot" I often wondered where he went with that, but he looked at Barkley (he's a red) he said that he's as good a footballer you will see at that age, he just looks too eager to please. He highlighted the same points, "any footballer who can play with their head up and either foot is 90% there. Martinez will bring out the player in this lad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted July 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2013 Here the million dollar question "if your son had the talent of Ross Barkley, would you trust Moyes to nurture him?" :major overreaction alert: Bailey and Steve_E 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted July 22, 2013 Report Share Posted July 22, 2013 I'm talking 10% at any level Louis. That's two to three of any age group going on to play professional football in any pro league. I don't think that is particularly high, but the rate for the premier league shows how poor young players are trained in this country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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