Sideliner

did not vote - we will probably not make top 4 - hope to finish in top half and seriously go for it in 2014/15 - the dust must first settle

Ah you lead me nicely into a justification here Dunc.
 
The reality is that we could compete at a level higher than what Moyes wanted us to believe. The knife to a gunfight analogy angered me. Moyes in reality had built himself a homemade pistol that could do a job (fair play) - he had the bullets - he just lacked the bottle to fire the thing in case he got shot.
 
Martinez at Wigan on the other hand did take a knife to a gunfight, he sharpened that knife, learned how to use it and took a few gun toting cowboys out with it. Yeah, he got shot in the end whilst Moyesy was busy hiding behind a wagon. He didn't get shot but he didn't shoot anyone.
 
Martinez has now been reincarnated as gun toting cowboy, and he's gonna learn how to get the best out of his new gun. Meanwhile Moyesy is in charge of a gattling gun, my guess is he will spend his time trying not to get shot rather than turning the handle and shoooting away.
 
Moyes made more of his financial limitations than he should have done, he dealt with those limitations well in terms of acquiring talent. What he didn't do was utilise that talent well enough. Martinez was ridiculously financially limited compared to Moyes.

Never more have I been shocked at some evertonians lack of football knowledge and applying sound judgement than in the new manager scenario.
 
I have seen pereira become a manager than 99% of fans no fuck all about become the "gotta get him, he's the best man for the job" just because he was successful in an uncompetitive league at a well resourced club.
 
I have seen Martinez judges as a manager based purely on his league finishes, without any consideration to the huge challenge he faced.
 
Such as:-
 
Complete inability type retain any talent due to wage cap of £25k a week.
 
Having to source players who will play in front of 18,000 fans in a non footballing town.
 
Having to reduce the wage bill by 22% in a footballing economy that was increasing player wages.
 
All whilst improving the footballing culture of the club, gaining admiration for the style and culture....
 
It's all about opinions, and it's fair enough, but what pisses me right off are people who will argue the toss despite knowing sod all or recognising valid points that counter their stance.

Majorly frustrating this. You seem to have strong views about a manager you clearly know very little about, you are presented an article that would have taken you a small amount of time more to read as it took you to write another post where you again repeat that you don't think martinez is the right appointment. You want people to read your views but you don't take time to read others???
 
If you actually read the fantastic article it may well have invalidated the post you made, because anyone who reads that will see what a remarkable insightful footballing mind martinez is. He is clearly a dilligent man with a high level footballing knowledge.
 
By the way, Martinez had every right to say to Kenwright "I will get you Champions league football", that would be the ambition I want to see from our new manager, Kenwright was the one who made the mistake of saying he said this in his press conference.

I have seen somewhere that Liverpool might also now be interested in Kone -
personally I would go for him as soon as possible

twitter says Arsenal has just activated Fellaini's release clause for 24 mil ahead of Man United and Chelsea -
at that price he can go and we can buy two very good players at least

he is not a striker but a midfielder - Espinoza - the Honduras international who played a few games for Wigan at the end - 25 years old and runs his socks off the whole field over with great long passing skills - I will take him any day to strengthen our squad - and Kone as a backup striker - even though he is a bit old - he seems better than Anichebe and Jelavic

Am over the moon right now! It's exciting times.
 
The thing about Martinez is that he prepares well and is a superb strategist/tactician. Everyone has said that he'll switch to Wigan's passing and attacking style of play, but I don't see a sudden change at all. Swansea had to play differently to differentiate from the physical play in lower leagues. Wigan had to differentiate because they had neither the budget nor the depth to compete otherwise. With the resources now available, Martinez will likely sit back and carefully consider how he can build on the current approach, slowly but surely tightening things up, maintaining strengths, and addressing weaknesses. I'll bet he'll be putting in 80-hour weeks during the off-season as he researches and considers and experiments and gets to know his new team. It may take a few months before he has a real impact, but then things could really start to happen. Also, given his management style, I would hope that he'd get more out of current players by instilling in them his confidence and passion for the game.
 
So, I'm now supporting a new team! I've enjoyed watching Wigan, even when the team lost. Their demolition of Newcastle last spring was one of the most dominant one-sided displays I've ever witnessed. Their defeat of ManU cost the latter their title. But it's Martinez's detailed and hard-working approach that I find fascinating, so Everton it is for me. They are once again going to become a real powerhouse - Top Four and not just Top Six. Can't wait for the new season to begin!

Give it a rest Dunc, christ! Ive asked you this a couple of times now with no reply, have you ever actually criticised Moyes for ANYTHING? Its pathetic, if you dont like the "negative" attitude here, do one! All you seem to post is snidy remarks at how everyone here is a doom monger, when most people on here simply critisice where they see fit, like most people would. But your so far up Moyes'/Kenwrights arse you cant see that and take every little critisism as a "Moyes/kenwright out" post. Grow the fuck up.
 
On topic, i think credit where credit is due in regards to Kenwright sticking with Moyes. I think a lot of people thought "here we go again" after the 17th finish, but like i said, credit to Kenwright.
 
Thats where a chairman like Kenwright does pay off. As far as i know, Ashley doesnt have a relationship with Pardew anything like the standard Moyes has/had with kenwright. Obviously kenwright saw something special in moyes and stook with him. A chairman like Ashley would look at results and say "get rid", or may just not like the manager (see big sam). I think the stability your looking for stems from the chairman personally, not from the manager. But as you see with us, we have a guy who is all about the club without a pot to piss in, you's seem to have the money, but with a chairman who couldnt give 2 fucks (really) which is often the case with the chairmen who have money.
 
In regards to Pardew, i think he's just an arogant prick and a shocking manager, but thats just me.

Is Moyes good enough for United? That depends on how good his relationships are with the referees

Given that i've seen him set up as a 4-5-1 at home to relegation fodder, play Blackpool and play to negate Charlie Adam then i'm going to say no.
 
As stated above, he worries about the opposition players threat too much rather than optimising our strengths against their weaknesses.
 
United will draw too many games under Moyes, for me that will be his failing.

Martinez also created miracles at Wigan by being the exact opposite of Moyes - maybe that is what Everton needs now to get rid of their lack in self belief , to rise to the occasion instead of just settling for the draw or defending a 1 goal lead -
just see how many beautiful goals Wigan scored this season compared to Everton but their defence let them down -
Martinez or Laudrop or DiMatteo will do thanks

I really believe this divorce will be in the interest of both parties -
they have been good for each other but have outgrown each other -
we shall see next season if any of the parties was holding the other one back or keeping it\him on his feet -
best wishes to both as they now go on their own ways down the uncertain path called The Future

Wigan was matching MCity in their last league clash and was unlucky to lose -
played attractive attacking football against a top side -
I think Martinez has the personality and skills to turn Everton into a real threat for the top 5 instead of propping them up like we have for the past 10 years under Mr Moyes -
unlike other bottom sides I enjoy watching Wigan play - very creative and flowing stuff

I'm not bothered about europa league, champions league or nothing for me. We haven't the squad to compete, unless he used it to blood the youth.

We had lots of the ball, but no cutting edge. Fulham's game plan was off they sat back and let us play. I found it more a case of them walking and us jogging. Had Fulham stepped it up, it could have been a very worrying game. Overall it was a very controlled display, but lacked the spontaneity or class to make it entertaining and in the end we were lucky to win considering the only difference being a mucked shot.

The Suarez assault on Ivanovic today when he bit him on the arm is a perfect reason why technology and replays should be used during the game -
that brat who scored the equalizer should not have been on the pitch in the 8th minute of the 6 minute extra time allowed by the ref -
a poor player like Popov gets a red card and a 3 match ban for missing someone when he spat in his direction - Mr Suarez might still get player of the season the way things are going

I think I touched on this earlier, some fans have more of an afiliation with the chairman, manager, certain players and lose interest when they change.
 
That's just a fact, not a criticism. I know MikeO wrote about how he cried when Alan Ball left Everton - now I can totally understand that pain. Possibly the best Everton player since Dixie Dean at that time who was the English equivalent of Zinedine Zidane. Did MikeO stop suppoerting Everton??? Looks like he hasn't.
 
Everton is Everton because of it's history - history is made by the managers and players, they are custodians, nothing more, the club stands above everything.
 
Would Tiger Woods gets tingles down his spine walking out on a golf course that's only 10 years old that hasn't seen any majors?, or would he still awestruck at walking out on st andrews, the home of golf where all the greats have played???
 
History is what makes Everton, not the past 11 years, otherwise Chelsea would be a bigger club!

Really? So you arent an Everton fan, your a Moyes fan?

Time to face facts. We aren't good enough for Europe and we will 'overachieve' again by finishing sixth or seventh. I don't know what it is about Moyes and strikers but he seems to destroy or demotivate every single one he buys. Baines screwed up for their goal but if we are the team we think we are we should rise above it and bury teams with a 3-1 come from behind win. I sense a lack of belief and that we wait for things to happen rather than make them happen. In short we are thinking like a team who don't believe we will win. Ok we don't have much cash to splash but there is no excuse for what we saw today. Jelavic cheating and diving to try to get a penalty is not something I want to see again. We don't do that at Everton. A bad performance I can take but this was more than a bad performance. There was no belief, hunger, organisation, leadership or creative spark. Play like that at Anfield and we will get well and truly twatted!

We need to be good enough to earn European football, and mediocre displays such as that only serve to show we're not.
 
The top teams find a way to win, and over the season we haven't.

we know what we have in Moyes - lots and lots of consistency but no silverware - some of us have seen enough of that for 11 years now -
a change is as good as holiday they say - look at Southampton and Sunderland as examples of clubs that have bitten the bullet for the better -
we must certainly let Moyes go if we can find somebody better - that is called progress - loyalty is something different -
lets respect each others views - and debate the facts instead of trying to suppress any point of view -
you will find very few if any so called negative posters attacking the so called positive posters just for being constantly positive -
don't tell anybody to be positive or negative - tell them why - with good arguments and facts -
vigorous debate can only get us all thinking for ourselves and questioning our own views with those of others - in the interest of Everton

Thought we could have made our subs earlier. Pienaar was useless for the last 20 and we lost all pace after the second goal. Think changing things up would have livened us up and probably led to another goal. Obviously we were only at 60% today, and we got away with it, but Tuesday is going to need a very different application.

Good idea, but Gibson has to do better than that.
Obligatory yellow for Felli, refereeing double-standards are a disgrace in this league. Consistency should be a given, can't believe professional sport isn't properly officiated.