Please don't buy half the Wigan team roberto.

[Memmaclub]

So in rumours we are linked with 6 out of 7 are ex- Wigan. Surely Bobby needs time to assess what he needs in terms of what the current squad offer and the type of players to fit in to the higher expectations. Why would he go back to Wigan when they were relegated from their current squad.

[MikeO]

George Best was relegated.....probably a fairly long list of great players who have been if anyone wanted to research it.

 

I'm not saying any Wigan players are that good, just that saying being relegated as a team doesn't necessarily make them all relegation standard as individuals.

 

Martinez knows what he has at Everton, he knows what he had at Wigan, and if he thinks one or two of them would add to our squad (no way will it be six or seven) then we're just going to have to trust his judgment.

[troy8]

We were always going to be linked to Wigan players with Martinez coming in, doesn't mean that they will be signed. Who knows, he might not even sign a single one - time will tell.

[Hafnia]

So in rumours we are linked with 6 out of 7 are ex- Wigan. Surely Bobby needs time to assess what he needs in terms of what the current squad offer and the type of players to fit in to the higher expectations. Why would he go back to Wigan when they were relegated from their current squad.

 

we get linked with all sorts of players. If we were to get alcaraz (free) McCarthy (£10m) and McMananan I would be very pleased.

[Avinalaff]

Di Santo on a free as a back up striker.

[Guest]

McManaman if the money is right McCarthy is a top talent but is worth £8 million if you compare it to what you can get abroad. Id take a gamble on Ince at blackpool. Last 12 months of his contract £4 mill bargain

[Zoo]

I'd take McManaman & McCarthy but other than that the rest aren't good enough. They were relegated for a reason.

[Sideliner]

Wigan got relegated but that does not tell the whole story -

if they won 2 more games it would be the same as Swansea who finished 9th -

Wigan only scored 8 goals less than Everton last season -

they beat Tottenham away and Man City in the FA CUP -

surely there must be some good players in that outfit -

better than the Nevilles and the Naismiths we had to suffer last season -

the crux will be whether Martinez can get a few of them at a good price because of the relegation -

The Everton squad is far too small to even attempt Europe - look what happened to Newcastle -

so if we can get a few good players for not too much money that already knows how Martinez plays that will give us a headstart -

instead of buying an expensive continental or 2 who might not fit in and leaves us with a small squad -

[Avinalaff]

I'd not even given Mcmanaman a 2nd thought until he scored against us.

 

Can you imagine United faces if Moyes took Gibson back to United?

[Sideliner]

he was man of the match in the FA CUP final - that on its own tells a story

[StevO]

His pace and direct style would be nice, him and Mirallas either side of a confident Jelavic would do for me.

[Avinalaff]

he was man of the match in the FA CUP final - that on its own tells a story

 

It's one game though. I don't have an opinion on the guy other than if he is good enough, and cheap enough, maybe he is an option. I do think we need to be very sure about how we spend any money though, as it's not like we will have a kitty every time.

[Dalziel Kane]

Why would we even want any players from Wigan Athletic ? They weren't good enough collectively to have remained in the EPL, or avoid a relegation, so shouldn't that tell people something. Truthfully I don't really know any players they have, apart from one or two names often mentioned here, and then again, they're relatively easy to forget. If Martinez wants to bring over a name or two, then good enough, but hope there's not an influx of damn players from his last job.

[Cornish Steve]

So you didn't watch the FA Cup quarter final? You didn't watch a year ago when Wigan beat most of the top teams (and cost ManU the title) in quick succession? They struggled because injuries hit teams badly when they have no depth to their roster. That doesn't mean they don't have capable players. Indeed, the summer transfer market points to Wigan having very strong players: Moses, Rodallega, Valencia, Palacios, Heskey, Baines, ....

[Hafnia]

Why would we even want any players from Wigan Athletic ? They weren't good enough collectively to have remained in the EPL, or avoid a relegation, so shouldn't that tell people something. Truthfully I don't really know any players they have, apart from one or two names often mentioned here, and then again, they're relatively easy to forget. If Martinez wants to bring over a name or two, then good enough, but hope there's not an influx of damn players from his last job.

So.... "Why would we want any players from Wigan". "I don't know any of their players". "If he wants to bring one or two then fair enough"

 

Remaining in the EPL and avoiding relegation is the same thing.

 

All in one post?, I need to lie down.

[Romey 1878]

So you didn't watch the FA Cup quarter final? You didn't watch a year ago when Wigan beat most of the top teams (and cost ManU the title) in quick succession? They struggled because injuries hit teams badly when they have no depth to their roster. That doesn't mean they don't have capable players. Indeed, the summer transfer market points to Wigan having very strong players: Moses, Rodallega, Valencia, Palacios, Heskey, Baines, ....

Did you really just list Heskey?!

[Avinalaff]

So.... "Why would we want any players from Wigan". "I don't know any of their players". "If he wants to bring one or two then fair enough"

 

Remaining in the EPL and avoiding relegation is the same thing.

 

All in one post?, I need to lie down.

 

Do you think if we joined a fishing forum Haf, armed with the 'Complete compendium of fly fishing and associated casting', we could pretend to have an in-depth knowledge of thigh high wellies and pipe tobacco whilst learning as we go? We could post in every thread too without actually contributing, other than to say we're not keen on live bait and artificial floaters have a strange bob to them.

[Hafnia]

So you didn't watch the FA Cup quarter final? You didn't watch a year ago when Wigan beat most of the top teams (and cost ManU the title) in quick succession? They struggled because injuries hit teams badly when they have no depth to their roster. That doesn't mean they don't have capable players. Indeed, the summer transfer market points to Wigan having very strong players: Moses, Rodallega, Valencia, Palacios, Heskey, Baines, ....

Never more have I been shocked at some evertonians lack of football knowledge and applying sound judgement than in the new manager scenario.

 

I have seen pereira become a manager than 99% of fans no fuck all about become the "gotta get him, he's the best man for the job" just because he was successful in an uncompetitive league at a well resourced club.

 

I have seen Martinez judges as a manager based purely on his league finishes, without any consideration to the huge challenge he faced.

 

Such as:-

 

Complete inability type retain any talent due to wage cap of £25k a week.

 

Having to source players who will play in front of 18,000 fans in a non footballing town.

 

Having to reduce the wage bill by 22% in a footballing economy that was increasing player wages.

 

All whilst improving the footballing culture of the club, gaining admiration for the style and culture....

 

It's all about opinions, and it's fair enough, but what pisses me right off are people who will argue the toss despite knowing sod all or recognising valid points that counter their stance.

[Hafnia]

 

Do you think if we joined a fishing forum Haf, armed with the 'Complete compendium of fly fishing and associated casting', we could pretend to have an in-depth knowledge of thigh high wellies and pipe tobacco whilst learning as we go? We could post in every thread too without actually contributing, other than to say we're not keen on live bait and artificial floaters have a strange bob to them.

I was actually thinking of a quantum physics forum Av, go in there with the user name "Fuck Rodgers" and spend a huge amount of time plagiarising Richard P Feynman, J.P McEvoy, and a load of other brainy bastards who I'd never heard of till I googled "quantum physics authors"

[Avinalaff]

I was actually thinking of a quantum physics forum Av, go in there with the user name "Fuck Rodgers" and spend a huge amount of time plagiarising Richard P Feynman, J.P McEvoy, and a load of other brainy bastards who I'd never heard of till I googled "quantum physics authors"

[Iamryanstover]

Never more have I been shocked at some evertonians lack of football knowledge and applying sound judgement than in the new manager scenario.

 

I have seen pereira become a manager than 99% of fans no fuck all about become the "gotta get him, he's the best man for the job" just because he was successful in an uncompetitive league at a well resourced club.

 

I have seen Martinez judges as a manager based purely on his league finishes, without any consideration to the huge challenge he faced.

 

Such as:-

 

Complete inability type retain any talent due to wage cap of £25k a week.

 

Having to source players who will play in front of 18,000 fans in a non footballing town.

 

Having to reduce the wage bill by 22% in a footballing economy that was increasing player wages.

 

All whilst improving the footballing culture of the club, gaining admiration for the style and culture....

 

It's all about opinions, and it's fair enough, but what pisses me right off are people who will argue the toss despite knowing sod all or recognising valid points that counter their stance.

100% accurate. The constraints he dealt with were only slightly less problem some than Ian Holloway at Blackpool. Martinez acquired a lot of quality players on the cheap. Here he will not have the flexibility to take chances with players, but he is as ready to be Evertons manager as anyone else we could have had, and for football idiots always remember last year he turned down the Shite and this year chose us.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Lol Got to admit the all new ultra positive Haf is a refreshing change from the pessimistic doom and gloom Haf but its funny that all the arguments that you are so quick to point out in defence of Martinez are the same ones that you refused to accept when people defended Moyes

 

Small squad, injuries to key players, lack of depth, cant compete financially, it all sounds a bit familiar to me!

[Hafnia]

Lol Got to admit the all new ultra positive Haf is a refreshing change from the pessimistic doom and gloom Haf but its funny that all the arguments that you are so quick to point out in defence of Martinez are the same ones that you refused to accept when people defended Moyes

 

Small squad, injuries to key players, lack of depth, cant compete financially, it all sounds a bit familiar to me!

 

Ah you lead me nicely into a justification here Dunc.

 

The reality is that we could compete at a level higher than what Moyes wanted us to believe. The knife to a gunfight analogy angered me. Moyes in reality had built himself a homemade pistol that could do a job (fair play) - he had the bullets - he just lacked the bottle to fire the thing in case he got shot.

 

Martinez at Wigan on the other hand did take a knife to a gunfight, he sharpened that knife, learned how to use it and took a few gun toting cowboys out with it. Yeah, he got shot in the end whilst Moyesy was busy hiding behind a wagon. He didn't get shot but he didn't shoot anyone.

 

Martinez has now been reincarnated as gun toting cowboy, and he's gonna learn how to get the best out of his new gun. Meanwhile Moyesy is in charge of a gattling gun, my guess is he will spend his time trying not to get shot rather than turning the handle and shoooting away.

 

Moyes made more of his financial limitations than he should have done, he dealt with those limitations well in terms of acquiring talent. What he didn't do was utilise that talent well enough. Martinez was ridiculously financially limited compared to Moyes.

[bluenosetoffee]

Di Santo on a free as a back up striker.

 

Di Santo as back up to who!? To me our first choices are Anichebe and Jelavic. Then after than Vellios and to be honest with you I would rather Vellios to Di Santo.

[scouse]

 

Ah you lead me nicely into a justification here Dunc.

 

The reality is that we could compete at a level higher than what Moyes wanted us to believe. The knife to a gunfight analogy angered me. Moyes in reality had built himself a homemade pistol that could do a job (fair play) - he had the bullets - he just lacked the bottle to fire the thing in case he got shot.

 

Martinez at Wigan on the other hand did take a knife to a gunfight, he sharpened that knife, learned how to use it and took a few gun toting cowboys out with it. Yeah, he got shot in the end whilst Moyesy was busy hiding behind a wagon. He didn't get shot but he didn't shoot anyone.

 

Martinez has now been reincarnated as gun toting cowboy, and he's gonna learn how to get the best out of his new gun. Meanwhile Moyesy is in charge of a gattling gun, my guess is he will spend his time trying not to get shot rather than turning the handle and shoooting away.

 

Moyes made more of his financial limitations than he should have done, he dealt with those limitations well in terms of acquiring talent. What he didn't do was utilise that talent well enough. Martinez was ridiculously financially limited compared to Moyes.

[Cake]

The last time I can remember Everton buying someone because they scored against us in a cup game was when we bought Paul Wilkinson who scored against us at Goodison while playing for Grimsby Town, resulting in them knocking us out of The League Cup, 0-1. Howard Kendall bought him. Wilkinson was 'prolific' in The League Cup, for us, scoring 7 goals in 4 games. The rest of his Everton career of 30-odd games in total brought about half a dozen goals and a lot of bench warming.

 

So, as far as McManaman is concerned he's not for me as scoring a goal in a cup tie against us and having one good game on an wider/bigger than usual pitch does not, in my opinion, make him a viable option........ unless we just buy him for the FA Cup...... There is always THAT tackle to consider, too (on a QPR player the game after their 0-3 at Goodison?).

 

Not for me, ta.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

 

Ah you lead me nicely into a justification here Dunc.

 

The reality is that we could compete at a level higher than what Moyes wanted us to believe. The knife to a gunfight analogy angered me. Moyes in reality had built himself a homemade pistol that could do a job (fair play) - he had the bullets - he just lacked the bottle to fire the thing in case he got shot.

 

Martinez at Wigan on the other hand did take a knife to a gunfight, he sharpened that knife, learned how to use it and took a few gun toting cowboys out with it. Yeah, he got shot in the end whilst Moyesy was busy hiding behind a wagon. He didn't get shot but he didn't shoot anyone.

 

Martinez has now been reincarnated as gun toting cowboy, and he's gonna learn how to get the best out of his new gun. Meanwhile Moyesy is in charge of a gattling gun, my guess is he will spend his time trying not to get shot rather than turning the handle and shoooting away.

 

Moyes made more of his financial limitations than he should have done, he dealt with those limitations well in terms of acquiring talent. What he didn't do was utilise that talent well enough. Martinez was ridiculously financially limited compared to Moyes.

 

 

And Moyes was ridiculously financially limited compared to every manager of the teams who finished above us and quite a few who finished below us

[Hafnia]

 

 

And Moyes was ridiculously financially limited compared to every manager of the teams who finished above us and quite a few who finished below us

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/swansea-city/10103351/Swansea-City-players-give-best-value-for-money-in-Premier-League-according-to-football-finance-report.html

 

Two of Martinez last clubs in the top 3 position versus money spent. (THIS IS GOING BACK A YEAR OR SO)

 

Point again is that Moyes made far more of his limitations than Martinez, when in reality he has the 10th highest wage budget versus Wigan were only 2 teams has a lesser budget.

 

If a manager got his team into the prem on a low wage budget and kept them in the next year - he is heralded as a great manager. In reality Martinez did this for 4 years, He had newly promoted team wage budget and didn't get relegated in that time.

 

Moyes did well, Martinez far better IMO.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/swansea-city/10103351/Swansea-City-players-give-best-value-for-money-in-Premier-League-according-to-football-finance-report.html

 

Two of Martinez last clubs in the top 3 position versus money spent. (THIS IS GOING BACK A YEAR OR SO)

 

Point again is that Moyes made far more of his limitations than Martinez, when in reality he has the 10th highest wage budget versus Wigan were only 2 teams has a lesser budget.

 

If a manager got his team into the prem on a low wage budget and kept them in the next year - he is heralded as a great manager. In reality Martinez did this for 4 years, He had newly promoted team wage budget and didn't get relegated in that time.

 

Moyes did well, Martinez far better IMO.

 

 

I cant see how you could possibly say that

 

Martinez took over a mid table side and got them relegated, all be it with mitigating circumstances

 

Moyes took over a side that was regularly flirting with relegation and turned them into regular European challengers and yet you think Martinez did a better job?

 

You keep harping on about the fact Everton are paying the 10th highest wage bill, that is because Moyes built that side up with steady progress and eventually got us into a position were we could attract better players you seem to ignore the fact that Moyes got us into that situation with players like Kilbane, Bent, Carsley and a few lads he picked up from the Championship

 

If the wage bill plays such a big factor shouldn't Everton have finished 4 places lower and Wigan 2 places higher?

[Steve_E]

 

 

I cant see how you could possibly say that

 

Martinez took over a mid table side and got them relegated, all be it with mitigating circumstances

 

Moyes took over a side that was regularly flirting with relegation and turned them into regular European challengers and yet you think Martinez did a better job?

 

You keep harping on about the fact Everton are paying the 10th highest wage bill, that is because Moyes built that side up with steady progress and eventually got us into a position were we could attract better players you seem to ignore the fact that Moyes got us into that situation with players like Kilbane, Bent, Carsley and a few lads he picked up from the Championship

 

If the wage bill plays such a big factor shouldn't Everton have finished 4 places lower and Wigan 2 places higher?

 

Those wage bill stats are from 2011-12, when both teams finished 3 places above where they should have according to their "wage bill ranking". But apart from that, Moyes did walk into a bigger club that simply had more potential, more room for financial growth and he was aided by Rooney's emergence and the money he brought in. Martinez didn't wander into a team with a talent like that and had to reduce the wage bill they had when they finished mid table.

 

That's not to say I think Martinez accomplished more than Moyes relatively speaking btw. I think both did a very good job.

Edited June 13, 2013 by Steve_E