Formby

To quote Paul Merson doesn't really add credibility really does it... here's some of his beauties:-
 
"When Everton knock it long, they don't knock it long"
 
"Reading won't have the confidence to be confident"
 
"There's only one person gets you sacked and that's the fans"
 
"Football's all about yesterday, it's all about now"
 
Merson aside - its quite incredible that sentiments towards Moyes have changed according to our recent downturn. Some may forget the fact that his dour tactics, poor substitutions, negativity when playing the top 4 led to disgruntled fans and decreasing attendances but I won't.
 
He dined out on his rescue act and therefore was indulged to continue to be a one dimensional manager. The very fact that fans can call out specific games where we played nice football says it all he managed us for 518 games... yet specific games are being called out in order to say "he did play nice football" - Absolute nonsense, those games were the exception to the rule.
 
 
I'm beyond angry with Martinez right now. My only hope is that behind the scenes he is really having a long hard look at himself and understanding that he needs to evolve his methodology and not just stubbornly stick to it. The lack of tempo is the biggest issue, the lack of fight in certain players, and his inability to see that Gareth Barry needs to be disciplined for his recent performances - not started again.
 
A bit of humility and not positivity is what he needs.

What are these strange other plans Moyes apparently had? I can remember a lot of utterly predictable and sterile rubbish played under him, with a lot of gormless staring from the halfway line when things went wrong, late and ineffective substitutions, and the insistence on playing his favourites. Perhaps the spirit of Moyes is haunting Martinez? We have been horrible all season, culminating in this even more horrible run. Agree with much that has been said in this thread by various parties, but haven't got quite as desperate as to want the Moyes days back. I want Martinez to be brave, positive, and gamble - which I expected of him when he came - not stick to things which just aren't working. Play your players in their best position and drop Barry from any position.

We run creative writing classes and hit the bottle. Or just hit the bottle.

Actually, only one is. The plural is octopuses or octopi. No u in the latter.

Anyone else watching Gerrie Nel (SA state prosecutor) rip Pistorius's story to shreds? As compelling as the OJ case was all those years ago. Hoping for a guilty verdict here. Pistorius's version just does not stack up. Nel is absolutely riveting.

That strengthens the argument for me. Sold one first team player and brought in 3, overall improving the first team plus an extra one strengthening the bench add the kids getting a chance and RM has got us the best Everton squad in over a decade.

PM'd you both.

Ice hockey: I'll go with Sweden - best goaltender. Was a regular at the Manchester Storm when they played at the MEN. NHL games are amazing live - different experience on TV, but if you follow a team, no less appealing.

'Women, as some witty Frenchman once put it, inspire us with the desire to do masterpieces, and always prevent us from carrying them out.' (Oscar Wilde)
 
I have, unfortunately, found that to be true.
 
As I have this:
 
'All women become like their mothers. That is their tragedy. No man does. That is his.' (Ibid)

Moyes back? Never. One of those marriages where things may have been amicable but the fire had long gone out. After a few weeks apart, you realise how little you miss them. The Spanish hottie on the other side of the road may be on the hirsute side, but she talks a good game and is prepared to experiment with different positions. That's got to be worth it. Viva Roberto!
 

Now Beckham's retired, how about offering him the job? Would dramatically increase the club's profile (thereby helping a sale), would get players wanting to come, would get the others wanting to play. Big risk, but with Phil as assistant?

Agree with this.
 
Moyes was also a great ambassador for Everton and a good public face: none of that breathtaking sliminess and arrogance some other managers exude. I think he was let down by his inherent conservatism when it came to tactics. I wish him well, too, but I am excited at the prospect of getting a new manager. It had all got rather stale with DM. Of course, the board could mess up royally and appoint someone like Lennon or Hughes, but I don't think they will. I am pretty sure DM would have mentioned some names to Bill last night.

I would love us to go for Gourcuff. Still only 26, a real playmaker. Can play left and centrally. Scorer of one of the best goals I have ever seen.
 

 
Even better when you watch in slow motion: you can't really work out how he did it.

I would love us to go for Gourcuff. Still only 26, a real playmaker. Can play left and centrally. Scorer of one of the best goals I have ever seen.
 

 
Even better when you watch in slow motion: you can't really work out how he did it.

What the Moyes fan club appear to forget is that the cycle of decent results against 'bigger' teams, followed by abject failure in big games, and losses to very poor teams, has been going on for years. Moyes does just enough to make you think things will get better soon whereas, in actuality, he gets very well paid for achieving absolutely nothing. Arguing that things would be worse without him is a silly scare tactic designed to enforce the status quo. The club needs a new direction. Commentators in the media, especially the Liverpool brigade on MOTD, love to proclaim Moyes as Everton's Moyesiah, and cast dissenting fans as ungrateful Doubting Thomases. This is a pernicious fallacy. They want Moyes to stay in charge because they know we will never get anywhere under him. Everton are the spirited underdog, the plucky outsiders. The only thing we really contend for is public opinion. I don't want that and nor, I suspect, do most Everton fans.

Ah, the perennial debate hots up. I've been saying for years that we won't win a thing with Moyes, which was okay when expectations were rock bottom, and the warm blanket of mid-table security seemed quite comforting. However, with a decent to good squad at our disposal, one naturally looks up. It is unfortunate then that the very qualities that brought us the mid-table security don't translate to the higher echelons of the PL. The guys up there sleep in silk pyjamas. Moyes is a good, well-respected PL manager. What he isn't is a higher echelon manager. He is far too conservative, far too defence minded, far too predictable, and far too lacking in tactical nous (see European jaunts and the important cup games for details). I hope he doesn't sign and moves on. Will always be grateful to him, mainly for the manner he has conducted himself, and for what he has done for the club, but really, can we not have an attack minded manager, please? One who doesn't stifle our forward looking players (pun intended).

Excellent posts Formby. I think Moyes does a great job of being "sensible" - but sensible doesn't win you trophies or get ou top 4 each year. Sensible can make you avoid losing games that you shouldn't, it can help you earn the odd point when you are playing badly but it doesn't help get you 3,4,5 nil wins.
 
I hate to say it, but watching Liverpool the other night - they went out and expressed themselves and they will benefit from that win. That was a momentum builder, confidence booster and they will be looking forward to their next game.
 
Moyes tactics can be summarised by the following... Nevile in midfield, Fellaini up front, Naismith on the right. Horrible, absolutely horrible. Moyes will always be a good manager - I don't think he will be a great manager. He is judged on what he achieves with the money he has had - which fair enough he has built a great squad pound for pound. Unfortunately I don't think he is the right tactician to manage such a squad.
 
He seems far more comfortable managing your Kevin Kilbanes, Marcus Bents, Tim Cahills, players who will do as they are told and give 100%, as opoposed to your Yaks, Rooneys, Artetas, Drenthes, Saha's - players who have ridiculous natural ability who are match winners, game changers who rely on a moment of inspiration as opposed to an A4 sheet of instructions.
 
It's not a criticism of him - its the reality. He is not a manager fit for a club that is seeking to win things. I'm not saying we are in a place to win things - but when we have been there, he has bottled it big time. His set up for derby games is a pure indication of this. His set up whenever he gets to wembley is an indication of this.
 
If he gets a job with trophy expectations he will be found wanting that little bit of ooomph that gets players to go out and attack and try for 2nd and 3rd goals, keep the other team guessing.
 
The fact that he is surrounded by defensive minded coaches has always been a big concern to me.

Ah, the perennial debate hots up. I've been saying for years that we won't win a thing with Moyes, which was okay when expectations were rock bottom, and the warm blanket of mid-table security seemed quite comforting. However, with a decent to good squad at our disposal, one naturally looks up. It is unfortunate then that the very qualities that brought us the mid-table security don't translate to the higher echelons of the PL. The guys up there sleep in silk pyjamas. Moyes is a good, well-respected PL manager. What he isn't is a higher echelon manager. He is far too conservative, far too defence minded, far too predictable, and far too lacking in tactical nous (see European jaunts and the important cup games for details). I hope he doesn't sign and moves on. Will always be grateful to him, mainly for the manner he has conducted himself, and for what he has done for the club, but really, can we not have an attack minded manager, please? One who doesn't stifle our forward looking players (pun intended).

Ah, the perennial debate hots up. I've been saying for years that we won't win a thing with Moyes, which was okay when expectations were rock bottom, and the warm blanket of mid-table security seemed quite comforting. However, with a decent to good squad at our disposal, one naturally looks up. It is unfortunate then that the very qualities that brought us the mid-table security don't translate to the higher echelons of the PL. The guys up there sleep in silk pyjamas. Moyes is a good, well-respected PL manager. What he isn't is a higher echelon manager. He is far too conservative, far too defence minded, far too predictable, and far too lacking in tactical nous (see European jaunts and the important cup games for details). I hope he doesn't sign and moves on. Will always be grateful to him, mainly for the manner he has conducted himself, and for what he has done for the club, but really, can we not have an attack minded manager, please? One who doesn't stifle our forward looking players (pun intended).

Ah, the perennial debate hots up. I've been saying for years that we won't win a thing with Moyes, which was okay when expectations were rock bottom, and the warm blanket of mid-table security seemed quite comforting. However, with a decent to good squad at our disposal, one naturally looks up. It is unfortunate then that the very qualities that brought us the mid-table security don't translate to the higher echelons of the PL. The guys up there sleep in silk pyjamas. Moyes is a good, well-respected PL manager. What he isn't is a higher echelon manager. He is far too conservative, far too defence minded, far too predictable, and far too lacking in tactical nous (see European jaunts and the important cup games for details). I hope he doesn't sign and moves on. Will always be grateful to him, mainly for the manner he has conducted himself, and for what he has done for the club, but really, can we not have an attack minded manager, please? One who doesn't stifle our forward looking players (pun intended).

As I have mentioned before, there seems to be a hierarchy of ‘isms’ in this country. Insulting a black person appears to carry far more moral condemnation than insults directed at gays or Jewish people. This may be something to do with how the latter are perceived (soft targets). Every race has its racists. Manchester, though multicultural, has very complex racial divisions. People of all races and creeds run shoulders but, scratch beneath the surface, and the prejudice leaps out. A sniggering forbearance (at best) is how I’d best describe the majority’s view on gay people. You can hear it all the time in pubs. Pakistanis (who I know a lot about) have issues with Indians from partition days (Muslim-Hindu issues), Pakistanis with Bangladeshis from the 1971 war, black Africans and black Jamaicans don’t get on, Pakistanis don’t get on with blacks and vice versa, Chinese just the same. Muslims don’t get on with Jews. Of course, you can always say you know so and so and that’s just not the case with them, but it’s a rare individual that isn’t comprised of some kind of ism (whether it be something to do with race, creed, denomination, sexuality or xenophobia). It’s horrible when it comes out but may not always reflect the totality of that person.