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Good analysis Newty82... the main thing for me is Martinez is doing what he does (I'm all for this) but with Moyes' players who have been used to a totally different style. Martinez needs to bring in his own players and the only way he can do this is to sell Fellaini and/or Baines.
 
The sale of Fellaini doesn't worry me as I know we can get quality in to replace him. The sale of Baines does worry me, if Danny Rose/Ryan Bertrand were to replace him then I'd be a little less worried.

....the amount of bollocks being spoken about our first few league games, both by a portion of our 'fans' and both sky and bbc 'experts'.
 
Lets look at some of the kind of quotes we have so far....
'Passing for no reason....'
'Passing too slow...'
'Not penetrating enough...'
'Not creating chances...' etc etc.
 
You get what I mean, and know what I am on about. I dont agree with any of these statements or anything like them. But I thought to myself 'Dave, you have to wear glasses to see your 50inch TV, maybe your short sighted by nature aswell as physically....'. So, I look up the stats for our first 3 league games...and my view has not changed.
 
Now my view of keeping the ball is that 1) the opposition can do naff all without it, 2) its more tiring if you have to chase the ball and 3) with the ball, you control the game. I coach youth football and its bloody hard work drilling this in...as come game day, the call from the sidelines is 'clear it'....'get rid'...blah blah. In this country, we are shit at the game we invented because we cant grasp the idea of good calm patient football. Barcelona keep the ball for fun, Spains national team is made up of mainly Barcelona players, kind of hard to disagree with what they do. Martinez is made from this very same modern way of thinking. A lot of us english fans simply are not. So we have to hoof it if its nil nil after a few minutes.
 
I cant back this up on my own...so the stats....
 
Vs Norwich (a)...67% possession, 20 shots (vs.8), Shot accuracy 35% (vs.25%), 564 passes (vs.258), Pass Acc. 88% (vs.76%)
 
Vs WBA (h)...62% possession, 22 shots (vs.7), Shot accuracy 36% (vs.29%), 478 passes (vs.298), Pass acc. 83% (vs.70%)
 
Vs Cardiff (a)...63% possession, 13 shots (vs.4), shot accuracy 23% (vs.25%), 513 passes (vs.299), Pass acc. 86% (vs.76%)
 
The stats show that the type of football being played is doing its job...that is limiting the oppositions opportunity to use the ball, limiting their chances, and far from what is being said, this style of football is enabling us to create chances. Plenty of them. Our shot accuracy is far from poor. Also, we are passing the ball with great accuracy.
 
The only problem is we cant convert our chances just now, but that is not the fault of our style or any single player...it just aint happening just now. But it will. Its hard to see that when keeping the ball so much, creating so many chances etc it aint eventually going to go our way.
 
It is frustrating to have not won these games, but it is surely pleasing that we are doing almost everything right?!!!
 
The other moan is about Kone. Give the bloke a chance to get match fit, he's finding his fitness after fasting...that would zap the energy and therfore fitness out of any top athlete. The bloke will get us around 15 goals this season. Its totally unfair to label the £6 or so million spent on him as a waste. After a few sub appearances? Behave. So, some say we should have spent the money on someone else, who?
 
Overall, this is good stuff.
 
I am sceptical though...I have to admit...about the amount of staff brought in from wigan and also the number of players we have or are linked to from wigan. We have signed 3...linked with 2 others. That does make me feel a bit nervy.
 
I am a bit dissapointed....that we have spent a minimum amount of money on transfers, especially after all the hoo-haa about new tv money etc. Now Martinez says we dont need to sell financially. This seems to be true and only means the banks arent making silly demands, neither is any loan shark. Great.
 
However, clearly we have to sell if we want to buy. I am confident that we have 4/5 quality players lined up should Baines and Fellaini go, definately. Ideally we'll keep Baines...I dont mind us selling Fellaini, I think he really wants to go, and we'll bring in 3/4 players if that happens. But...its a shame we have to sell to buy.
 
Clearly, what we have is what we have squad wise. Its clear that we need more depth, quality depth I mean. I think more players will get a chance this season, it will be good to see who cuts it. Hopefully all of them, but when does that ever happen?
 
We'll still be up battling a top 6 place, but what happens between now and 11pm Monday will influence that a lot.
 
To finish...I reckon this years derby games will see some of the best pure football played for years between us.

I like it when everyone on TT is happy, doesnt normally happen on deadline day.
Rubes, you must now write a full review on the book, ideally in the next four weeks before I go on my jolies and need to buy it myself.

I justified his signing based on watching him play more games for Wigan than he has done for us - which at the moment is a sum total of 1.
 
I actually think finishing aside, his contribution was good, another game he would have had 3 goals and some on here would be getting his name on their shirt and hair peroxided.

From what I've heard of him from a couple of people he was right up there as the best wide midfielder in the Championship last season (even better than Zaha arguably). Supposedly has the skill and pace to make him a viable wide option for the majority of teams in the prem, with the craft and attacking nous that could see him become a top, top player. I was also told that he looked the second most natural finisher in the league behind Rhodes, which is quite the feat for a 21 y.o. winger. Would love him here for £7-8 mil (though I'd say similar for Moses if he was to be available instead).

He's already ticked more boxes after 3 games than I thought he would.
 
Positives:
 
Ross Barkley:- he has given belief and confidence to a player who moyes stripped of all his youthful 'fearless' nature. Yes we know he can lose the ball and try and do too much, but he needed a manager to nurture him, not punish him. Now he has, it seems to have made the player less reliant on trying to impress every time he gets the ball as he knows he will get time rather than minutes.
The passing game:- Yes, the part of the game we have missed for so long. The game that would have equipped us to play the top 4 at their own game. Still way to go, but already we are seeing more chances created and soon enough we will give someone a hiding
Fairness:- He is giving all the players a chance, even to his detriment. Moyes had his favs, Bob seems to be more balanced. It will foster a better competitive and more rewarding environement. "If I do well I will play"  
Negatives:-
 
We haven't won in prem and struggled against Stevenage:- Have we overdone the patient play? Is it Naismiths fault? Is it the transfer window? Is it RM's style? I don't think its any of the above. I seen the same results with Moyes "tough to beat 11" with less enjoyment. Bit early to say that the players struggle with this style. Some are flourishing, some predictably still feel the need to hoof.
Kone:- Looked like he couldnt hit a cows backside with a banjo. I do think he will come good, a bright athletic player who has had a pre season fasting for ramadan. Lets give him a couple of weeks.

If we're to sell Fellaini in this window - and I really think it will suit RM's team plans to do so - then I would LUV it if Arsenal come in with a suitable bid and we sell to them rather than Moyes Utd.

If we're to sell Fellaini in this window - and I really think it will suit RM's team plans to do so - then I would LUV it if Arsenal come in with a suitable bid and we sell to them rather than Moyes Utd.

theres 6.46s I won't get back...

Find myself in total agreement with D.Kane.
 
With an ounce of luck we would be celebrating 6 points, don't forget Norwich took 4 points off us last season ( And we should have won both)
a draw there is no disgrace. Today a lot of people thought West Brom would roll over and join in Roberto,s first home game spirit and hand us 3 points.
My one big complaint is why Naismith is always brought on, why oh why not Oviedo far more creative and always looking to make things happen.
 
And in a game like today bring Victor on for at least the last 10 minutes, go route one and just bombard their box, he has that fantastic tight turn that has paid off
so many times. Hope the lads manage to knock a few past Stevenage midweek to boost confidence a bit.
 
There has,nt been too much wrong and at least we have,nt lost. Moyes was,nt exactly renowned for having flying starts.
Goodison seemed primed for a party today and the expectation was a home banker but West Brom were the poopers.
 
Lets look forward to Cardiff , want a win there really badly being a welsh Evertonian.

In bullet points (as I've got a headache);
 
- We're un-defeated.
- We've been playing great football we just need to be more clinical.
- We have a new manager, if anyone thought we would be beating teams 8-0 then they were deluded. It's going to take time.
 
I'm happy with Martinez. It's not as if we have started the season and been bounced each week. We've been the better team in both games we just need to stand up and be counted.

I think the reason that no one in europe is forming an orderly queue for him is the same reason why many fans didn't want Martinez - he was at lowly, skint and unfashionable Wigan. Ahhh but if he was getting great passing, intercepting and work rate stats in a glory team like Spurs he would be having Levy slapping a £25m price on him. The reality is McCarthy ran the midfield against Spurs when they beat them 1-0 at WHL.
 
Again the same applies for McCarthy as it did for Kone and Martinez - the fact that they succeeded at a low resourced club should be the reason that they are rated.
 
I'm not saying he is the next Steven Gerrard, but I would say he is more suited to RM style than Fellaini and would be the perfect support for Barkley (who some on here never believed would prove his 'hype'), who we will build the team around. For what we can afford, knowing what we will get I believe him to be the best option.
 
£10m plus add ons to £12/£13m would be a reasonable deal.
 
I think people need to move away from the "midfielder, how many assists and goals?" stat. We had Time Cahill who was a goal machine in midfield but lets be honest as a midfielder tackling, passing, intercepting etc he was pretty average and we needed two central players supprting him.
 
McCarthy is a similar type of player to Carrick who many credit with being uniteds key player aside from RVP last season.

Mate it's known that Moyes was well aware of the fact that Ferguson was retiring, well in advance of the public announcement. He held off signing a new contract rather than simply being honest and stating that he was going to go to United either way. He was blatantly tapped up, and blatantly knew the score and was well aware of the impact it would have upon the club. Yet Moyes still went with the 'blessing' of most people involved with our club.
 
Whoever is responsible for transfer dealings at Old Trafford at the moment is displaying a great deal of arrogance and ignorance and has massively misjudged the feelings of football people. The fact that it is not only Everton fans who are calling this joke bid for what it really is must surely be ringing some alarm bells. I hope the bully boy tactics and trying to unsettle our club blow up massively in your faces.

** APPLAUSE**
 
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2397076/Manchester-United-boss-David-Moyes-needs-think-Everton-spell-bids-Leighton-Baines-Marouane-Fellaini.html

** APPLAUSE**
 
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2397076/Manchester-United-boss-David-Moyes-needs-think-Everton-spell-bids-Leighton-Baines-Marouane-Fellaini.html

The best bit about this?
 
In a round about way, it's been made public that Moyes wants baines ahead of Evra. Evra, does not like this. Evra asks for move. Evra is unsettled. Baines doesn't join United. Everton poison Man U's dressing room.
 
Their dismal attempt at unsettling our players, has ironically just unsettled one of their own, long standing custodians.

I want to us to take United to the FA for poaching and talking to moyes whilst under contract. Sick of the way we get bullyed. I would actively try and sell fellaini to another club. Moyes needs a midfielder, apparently their result the other day flattered them, lets hope RVP does his ankle for a period and leaves united short of their match winnner - especially with Rooney reluctant to play for them.

If we are thinking about selling I'd rather see baines stay and Fellini go for £25+ million, hopefully after Arsenals shite performance on Saturday they might come in for Fellini or even both and start a bidding war

If the numbers are right then this is not just insulting to us as a club, it's derogatory to the players involved. In addition, Fellaini already knows he's Moyes 3rd/4th choice for his new midfielder after the other enquiries/bids they've made.
 
Moyes clearly has both players on his wish list - and who can blame him - and it's his new club's job to try to get them for him, but however hands-off he claims to be when it comes to bidding for them he will be all too aware of how those low-ball offers will be viewed at his old club.
 
Interestingly, from speaking to and reading supporters of other clubs, it's not just us who thinks £28m is insulting. I haven't had one person yet saying that we should accept the offer.
 
Personally, I wouldn't even consider the deal for less than £40m.

I think Rodwell would be outstanding in this side, if he could stay fit. Whenever he wasn't injured Mancini and Hodgeson both picked him, the lad has bags of ability.
 
If he did stay fit I'd love us to bring him back.

Oh I totally agree with you. Just wound me up how they just bemoaned the fact that nobody's brings through enough English talent but don't pick up the fact a 19 year old English lad just stole the show. I agreed with the fact that we don't bring "enough" through. But when someone does, they completely ignored it because he doesn't play for one of the top 4 clubs.

The way Fellaini played yesterday I would guess he's off. I'm tired of him, I actually want him to go!

Well, we started well in the first half, then lost our way for a bit and Norwich finally got into the game and then again we asserted our dominance and took control right up until the half-time whistle. We looked very pretty on the ball and our passing was sharp and we saw a lot of the ball, but it was looking like we'd have no creativity or penetration. But as the half progressed I really thought we found our feet and looked like we could create a lot of chances. And we did (I think we ended up with 20 attempts on goal?) and I was very satisfied at half-time. I felt there was to feel positive about. The midfield for the most part looked good, the defence (apart from Jagielka) looked switched on and Jelavic looked bright and eager.
 
Second half, we came out and looked like we'd carry on from where we left off but totally against the run of play we conceded due to pathetic defence from a number of our players. Most notably Fellaini. He was such a fanny, it's untrue, and undid his great play from the first half, where I thought he was one of our stand out performers. Obviously this knocked us a bit but it only took us 10 minutes to get back in the game. And what a beautiful goal it was too. Barkley with a strike that just oozed class. He showed the composure of someone much older to drag the ball on to his "weaker" foot and put it exactly where Ruddy could never reach it. It was a goal that his performance up until that point had thoroughly earned. The momentum was all ours now and 5 minutes later we had our second goal. And it was such a well crafted goal. Pienaar played Jelavic in deftly and Ruddy saved well but could only push the ball our to Coleman who finished coolly. If that play is what we see a lot of this season then we're going to score many goals. We were in complete control at this point but were hit with a sucker punch equaliser. I know Whittaker mishit it but I really felt Jagielka was at fault by not being closer to his man. He should have been expecting the ball to be coming in to the box but he was nowhere near Van Wolfswinkel. I don't think we ever recovered from that equaliser and the game just petered out for us.
 
As has been said, we're a point up on last season (after losing at Carrow Road) but only getting a point from this game after we'd turned things around is hard to take. Plenty of positives to take from the game and only a couple of negative issues.
 
 
Howard - Really didn't have much to do apart from pick the ball out of the back of his net twice. Nothing he could do about either of them as well.
 
 
Coleman - A stonking performance in attack. A constant threat. And showed he's going to be a goal threat because he's willing to follow the attacks into the box from the other side. Highlighted by his goal today. He didn't have a lot of help defensively from Mirallas but performaed well in that regard. His one flaw was his poor crossing the majority of the time. It's something he needs to work on.
 
Jagielka - Think he'd been on the Night Nurse last night because he slept through most of this game. He just didn't look with it at all. Caught out of position a few times and, like I said earlier, I think he should have done much better for their equaliser.
 
Distin - I thought he was rock solid mostly. He used his pace brilliantly on more than one occasion and looked switched on right from the off. He also dealt well with the physical threat that Van Wolfswinkel posed (mostly in the second half).
 
Baines - He wasn't bad but I barely noticed him either. One thing I did notice though was his poor delivery from set-pieces.
 
 
Mirallas - An up and down game from him today. Mostly down. It took me an age to even realise he was playing and even then he didn't really do much. And he so lazy at helping Coleman out. The Norwich wide player had all the space in the world to move in to and Coleman was left backpedaling.
 
Osman - My word he was shite. I thought maybe once it was the proper season he'd look better but he looks so out of it. People can say he's out of position bla bla bla but that's no excuse for not being able to pass is it? Very worrying.
 
Fellaini - I thought he had a great first half. He broke up play and he drove forward with the ball, he linked up well, he was physical. He pretty much did everything that we'd expect from him. But the one thing I will remember from this game from him is his, quite frankly, embarrassing effort at stopping Whittaker. It was a token gesture and an unacceptable one at that.
 
Pienaar - Drifted in and out of the game but showed flashes of what we know he can do. His ball to Jelavic in the build up to our second being his best contribution. It's those sorts of balls we're crying out for to open up defences and I hope it's the first of many. If he does that regularly he'll be right up there in terms of assists.
 
 
Barkley - Today just highlights why he should have been used more last season. I'm not saying he should have started the majority of games or anything like that, but he is a completely unique squad member. We have no one like him. He;s so unpredictable but he clearly has the brain and vision along with that unpredictability which makes him such a massive threat. His passing today was on another level and made a mockery of his 19 years of age. He looked like a player who'd been at this level for years. His vision and his ability to pick a pass were second to none. His pass completion rate was phenomenal when you consider he didn't always choose the easy option. He was willing to pick the harder option because he believed he could pull it off. His belief was on show again for his goal. The willingness to shift the ball from his strong foot on to his left foot and then have a crack from that far out and pull it off... wow. Also, in the past he's been easily shrugged off the ball (and usually in a dangerous position) but today he showed strength on a number of occasions to hold his own and still keep the ball. My MOTM.
 
 
Jelavic - Think it was clear to see that pre-season has really boosted him. He looked a different player to the one we became accustomed to last season. He was bright, eager and always looking to get involved by linking up well with the midfield. He was unlucky not to get his first goal of the season too. It was a good shot by him that led to Coleman scoring and if not for a block by a Norwich defender he'd have rifled the ball home later in the second half. A very encouraging performance.

We need at least 1 new central midfielder. Unacceptable from Ossie, lost the ball far too much.
 
Can't believe how lucky Norwich always seem to be against us. We owe them a 6-0 thrashing. Disappointed to only come out with a draw after coming from behind to lead but new manager and new style of play, away from home, suppose its not too bad.

My love for Martinez just gets more each day..,. Thank fuck we've got him handling Ross Barkley now. It's a pity the likes of Baxter, Rodwell and Vellios never had him a couple of years ago.
 
MISTAKES - a common word in football because all games feature them. Make a young player fear mistakes and you won't see their true talent,
 
I've said it numerous times and said it right at the time, what Moyes did with Barkley at the Blackburn game was scandalous. i actually think Moyes had some form of envy when it came to flair players, players who can do that special thing that he couldn't as a journeyman lower league player. He even came out and said something along the lines of "he should be doing it more" when baines scored a screamer. He even came out with shite about mirallas when he was our match winner. You never heard him say "phil Neville was predictably shite today" - no because he identified with players like Neville, kilbane, bent, Cahill.
 
Barkley just like Gerry D, is going to have games where things don't work, but under Martinez we will see the game where everyone will "how the fuck did he do that?!". There is no better thing in football than seeing the moment a young talent announces himself on the biggest stage. We seen it with Rooney versus arsenal, and I think we will see it again with young Ross.