Newty82

No doubt about it Pad. If Stones goes, I expect his full fee plus more on top to be spent. Or shit hits the fan.
 
After paying off a chunk of debt last year, knowing we have more coming in from TV and hearing all summer that we are not a selling club...there really seems to be no excuse, or reason if you like, to spend less than we sell.
 
I can accept that every player has a price. No problem with that. That's just business. But please, no more bullshit!
 
Incidentally, I don't agree with the links comment you make. That just seems to be the way we do it. We seem quite good at keeping our targets under wrap and then pulling if off when we are ready. Which tends to be late for what ever reason.

The best thing for Stones is to stay at Everton and play every game he us available for. At Chelsea, he'll get a fraction of games and therefore less nurturing of his obvious talent. Too often the English youngsters are moving to 'big 4 clubs' to soon and stagnating.
 
Stones still only has 4 England caps and only 56 (?) Appearances for us. Loads left to learn.
 
He seems a level headed lad. I think he knows what's best. But what about his agent? Those vultures smell payouts more than skanky dole street residents.
 
If we really are no longer a selling club, if we really do not need to sell...and if we really have turned down £30 million...than an extra £5mill won't cut it for me. It has to be around the £50 million mark. That's not to say I think he is worth that much. But natural economics say that if you want to buy something off someone who doesn't want to sell, and you really want it...you have to pay a shit load more than the market value.
 
For me, far from being angry with Chelsea and Jose (although it is annoying for other reasons), I'm glad they've spoke out about him and put in a few offers. Because it shows how much they want him. That puts our club in the driving seat of all negotiations. We'll, so long as everything being said is true.

The best thing for Stones is to stay at Everton and play every game he us available for. At Chelsea, he'll get a fraction of games and therefore less nurturing of his obvious talent. Too often the English youngsters are moving to 'big 4 clubs' to soon and stagnating.
 
Stones still only has 4 England caps and only 56 (?) Appearances for us. Loads left to learn.
 
He seems a level headed lad. I think he knows what's best. But what about his agent? Those vultures smell payouts more than skanky dole street residents.
 
If we really are no longer a selling club, if we really do not need to sell...and if we really have turned down £30 million...than an extra £5mill won't cut it for me. It has to be around the £50 million mark. That's not to say I think he is worth that much. But natural economics say that if you want to buy something off someone who doesn't want to sell, and you really want it...you have to pay a shit load more than the market value.
 
For me, far from being angry with Chelsea and Jose (although it is annoying for other reasons), I'm glad they've spoke out about him and put in a few offers. Because it shows how much they want him. That puts our club in the driving seat of all negotiations. We'll, so long as everything being said is true.

No doubt about it Pad. If Stones goes, I expect his full fee plus more on top to be spent. Or shit hits the fan.
 
After paying off a chunk of debt last year, knowing we have more coming in from TV and hearing all summer that we are not a selling club...there really seems to be no excuse, or reason if you like, to spend less than we sell.
 
I can accept that every player has a price. No problem with that. That's just business. But please, no more bullshit!
 
Incidentally, I don't agree with the links comment you make. That just seems to be the way we do it. We seem quite good at keeping our targets under wrap and then pulling if off when we are ready. Which tends to be late for what ever reason.

I seen that video on my break today. Felt proud that a player representing Everton would act in this way. Real gentleman.
 
At least he found the back of the net in the game if not in the warm up!!!

I seen that video on my break today. Felt proud that a player representing Everton would act in this way. Real gentleman.
 
At least he found the back of the net in the game if not in the warm up!!!

I seen that video on my break today. Felt proud that a player representing Everton would act in this way. Real gentleman.
 
At least he found the back of the net in the game if not in the warm up!!!

Is that Barkley now on the same amount of league goals so far this season as the whole of last season???
 
At work, so not watching, but buzzing with this result. And so pleased that our attacking players are, so far, weighing in with Goals and assists.

If the window closes and we've ended up with Delefeou, Cleverly, Lennon, Evans and Pato. Plus keeping hold of Stones and extending the contracts of a few key players. That would do me very much nicely.

Some of the points Paddock raised about the 3-5 year project sound about right. It seems to be that kind of direction.
 
Where as Paddock mentions can the fans be that patient, my concern would be can the players we currently think will be the main men of the future squad be that patient? I'm talking about Stones, Barkley, Lukaku, McCarthy...if we don't show some signs of constant progress, they'll want to move on and then you never really get anywhere?
 
It's a tough project. It needs the right kids but also key players bringing in of more mature ages and experiences.
 
I've always liked Martinez. But must admit I got fed up towards the end of last season. I really hope he evolves our play this season (fine with keep ball but not fine with the pace of it!), brings in the right players, stops playing guys out of position etc.
 
If not then...well...

Some of the points Paddock raised about the 3-5 year project sound about right. It seems to be that kind of direction.
 
Where as Paddock mentions can the fans be that patient, my concern would be can the players we currently think will be the main men of the future squad be that patient? I'm talking about Stones, Barkley, Lukaku, McCarthy...if we don't show some signs of constant progress, they'll want to move on and then you never really get anywhere?
 
It's a tough project. It needs the right kids but also key players bringing in of more mature ages and experiences.
 
I've always liked Martinez. But must admit I got fed up towards the end of last season. I really hope he evolves our play this season (fine with keep ball but not fine with the pace of it!), brings in the right players, stops playing guys out of position etc.
 
If not then...well...

Some of the points Paddock raised about the 3-5 year project sound about right. It seems to be that kind of direction.
 
Where as Paddock mentions can the fans be that patient, my concern would be can the players we currently think will be the main men of the future squad be that patient? I'm talking about Stones, Barkley, Lukaku, McCarthy...if we don't show some signs of constant progress, they'll want to move on and then you never really get anywhere?
 
It's a tough project. It needs the right kids but also key players bringing in of more mature ages and experiences.
 
I've always liked Martinez. But must admit I got fed up towards the end of last season. I really hope he evolves our play this season (fine with keep ball but not fine with the pace of it!), brings in the right players, stops playing guys out of position etc.
 
If not then...well...

If the window closes and we've ended up with Delefeou, Cleverly, Lennon, Evans and Pato. Plus keeping hold of Stones and extending the contracts of a few key players. That would do me very much nicely.

With a lot of reflection since last season, I think Lukaku had, like the majority of the team, a very much under par season. Some of the stuff aimed at him is ruthless to say the least. Yes, he has his stand out pain in the arse moments...his touch can be terrible, offsides, lack of showing real strength etc. But then I guess other blatant pain in the arse moments can be thrown at some of our darlings...Barkley gives the ball away, wastes balls, makes poor decisions. Stones tries to play it out when he should be more brash etc. Every player has these kind of features.
 
But the real purpose of this post is this theory that many of you guys believe to be true...he gets little or no service. This isn't an attack on the lad, but this 'no service' stuff simply isn't true. As far as the controversial stats are concerned!
 
Last season Lukaku had 105 shots on goal (vast majority inside the area) in 36 games (this puts him 6th last season of all Premier League players for shots on goal). He scored 10 league goals (this put him way down in 23rd). His conversion rate was 10.5 shots per goal.
 
Compare that to 2 other key strikers: Aguero (just because he was the leagues leading scorer) and Austin (just because we are being linked to him).
 
Austin had 130 shots in 35 games, scored 18, conversion rate of 7.2.
 
Aguero had 148 shots in 33 games, scored 26 goals, conversion rate of 5.7.
 
Lukaku would have needed 189 shots to score as many as Austin, and 273 shots to match Aguero based on last season's conversion rate.
 
Possibly just an off season?
 
Or maybe something that tells us that Lukaku needs to start evolving his game more and really push his development as his declining efficiency in front of goal is a bit of a worry...possibly because defenders have him sussed?
 
As a relatively unknown in his first Premiership blast in 2012/13 for WBA he played 35 games, had 97 shots and scored 17 goals...conversion rate of 5.7 shots per goal...same as Aguero last season.
 
In his first season for Everton in 2013/14, he played 32 games, had 101 shots and scored 15 goals...conversion rate of 6.7 shots per goal...slight dip, similar to Austin last season.
 
I'm sure the above will be brushed off and the 'he gets no service' bandwagon will roll on. But if we are going to be concerned about any part of his game, shouldn't it be his declining efficiency in front of goal?

If you thought Sunderland were 'parking the bus' before, now you'll see it for real...

You guys have to remember that these genuinely relegation threatened sides play out of their skins in the last 10 games or so. Happens every season. They look like different teams. If your one of their fans, you have to wonder why they can't do it all season. Everton have done it a few times in the last 20 years!!!
 
Hull have just pushed Chelsea very close. Leicester pushed Spurs close. Burnley pushed Southampton very hard.
 
And also ditto what Mike says.

Moyes took the team to 7th. So they must have been capable of finishing 7th? The same team, with a couple of improvements, finished 17th. Look at the squads...hardly any difference...
 
2002/3
 
http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/everton-fc/2003/2/
 
2003/4
 
http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/everton-fc/2004/2/
 
Then, with the same back line and core players, we finished 4th!!!
 
http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/everton-fc/2005/2/
 
So did Moyes just have an off season? A learning season? Moyes said that he learnt a lot from his 2nd full season and then altered his approach. That 2nd season rumours were rife that he had lost the dressing room. This is all factual stuff. After we finished 4th in Moyes 3rd full season, there was a failure to really take advantage of the CL placing, the squad was too thin and the football was dire that season.
 
Point is...Moyes didn't get everything right straight away.
 
And you say Moyes had to deal with a load of dead wood? That's sounds familiar too.

While I get the sentiment behind peeps wanting these youngsters to start, and while I've never thought we were in danger of going down...If we start experimenting with line ups now, we could balls it right up!
 
With just 9 games to go, let's get some points on the board, reach 36-40 points ASAP and then give game time to the next generation...when it absolutely doesn't matter what the result us to us.
 
Looking forward to the game. Always do.

Moyes took the team to 7th. So they must have been capable of finishing 7th? The same team, with a couple of improvements, finished 17th. Look at the squads...hardly any difference...
 
2002/3
 
http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/everton-fc/2003/2/
 
2003/4
 
http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/everton-fc/2004/2/
 
Then, with the same back line and core players, we finished 4th!!!
 
http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/everton-fc/2005/2/
 
So did Moyes just have an off season? A learning season? Moyes said that he learnt a lot from his 2nd full season and then altered his approach. That 2nd season rumours were rife that he had lost the dressing room. This is all factual stuff. After we finished 4th in Moyes 3rd full season, there was a failure to really take advantage of the CL placing, the squad was too thin and the football was dire that season.
 
Point is...Moyes didn't get everything right straight away.
 
And you say Moyes had to deal with a load of dead wood? That's sounds familiar too.

Leighton Baines in an interview after euro exit...
 
"We are all frustrated, of course we are, said the left-back. This was a competition that we have enjoyed and wanted to do really well in it. This, ultimately, was all that we had left. We had a great first season under the manager and we were all thinking that we would push on. We had all the confidence in the world and I dont think anyone would have foreseen the way things have gone this season. We had been upbeat and positive and it just hasnt been a good season."
 
I've had a long running feeling that we started this season far to confident and cocky after last season. And even as the poor season continued, the players just thought it would sort itself out. So do Martinez. Over confidence is not a good thing in any walk of life. There's a huge lesson in itself.

I said the forum would get busy after the Kiev defeat! It's the nature of footy forum fans!! Ha.
 
For me, he's still not to be sacked.
 
I'll admit he's doing my nut in at times with team selections, some comments etc. I feel myself getting frustrated with hearing certain things and repeatedly seeing certain things in games.
 
But it would be morally wrong (& expensive!) to sack a man who had a great first season and has had a below standard 2nd season up to now. I can see the 'anti Martinez' guys shaking their head at the mention of a great 1st season, as of course Moyes was still ghosting in at Finch Farm through the air con!!!
 
But it was a great debut season. And the club, and fans, has to give Martinez a chance to prove that this season is a 'learning season', '2nd season syndrome'...whatever you want to call it...and that his first season was no one off, fluke, or whatever. It is absolutely correct to allow Martinez another pre season, another few months into next season to see how things develop.
 
If come next season we are still making daft mistakes, conceding daft goals, if we start off the season looking unfit, if we still play at a stupidly slow tempo, if we still play with one winger, if we still persist with out of form players, if he makes pure dog shit signings...then we'll be in the bottom half and yes he will then deserve to be shown the door. Key word: Deserve. Right now, he does not deserve to be sacked.
 
All managers face adversity. It's up to the individual whether they squirm away or face into it.
 
Also keep in mind that this teams core, the core that has been present for 5-10 years, is now into its final furlong of top level football. We face a difficult task of a complete overhaul of the majority of players who have been fundamental to the success of the Moyes era but who clearly can no longer keep at it. We are talking 10 or 11 players. Even if you guys get your way and Martinez gets sacked tomorrow, you'll have to show more patience with the next guy because there's a pretty big job to do.

While I get the sentiment behind peeps wanting these youngsters to start, and while I've never thought we were in danger of going down...If we start experimenting with line ups now, we could balls it right up!
 
With just 9 games to go, let's get some points on the board, reach 36-40 points ASAP and then give game time to the next generation...when it absolutely doesn't matter what the result us to us.
 
Looking forward to the game. Always do.

Germany started rebuilding after the 2002 world cup when they didn't get out the group. The Germans changed the rules in the domestic league to encourage more home development. The club's invested millions in youth development and it has paid off. Before that, the Spanish did it. Before that, the French.
 
I don't think a 'style' dies out. More a generation that makes it famous gets old and the next lot come through.
 
The Germans have sussed out how to plan ahead and develop a bunch of quality players. But they haven't sussed out a style all of their own. Munich under Pep play differently to Klopp at Dortmund.

Going out on a limb here...I get the Barkley thing...but i've gone for a man who had to play as 2 centre backs and a right back...Jags!
 
The bloke took some beatings today too! Was right in amongst it while his partner had an absolute shitter. Tough game for him today.

I'll ignore the 'who' part of the question. It will be Martinez.
 
I'll also ignore answers of Moyes.
 
But the topic touches on something quite important. An ageing squad. It's been a concern of mine for a while. Too many players at the wrong end of their career. Could cost a fortune to replace them all.
 
The positive thing is that we have no Europe to worry about next season so we can trim the squad a bit and add to it in stages.
 
There really is some deadwood around.
 
I also don't know why Martinez has a reputation of poor signings for us?
 
Yeah, some have been dogs. But look at every signing made by every team. It's 50% 50 whether they work out or not.