StevO Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 straight from the horses mouth http://www.liverpool...00252-29867124/ sorry, but thats simply not good enough for me, no way should our first aim be to secure 40 points, we are not Blackburn or Swansea or QPR, we should be looking to achieve as many points as we can, basically he is saying the focus is on avoiding relegation, sorry Davie i dont think thats good enough imo Poor, defeatist mentality. Not happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.P Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 Let's have some perspective here. Moyes isn't saying he'll be happy to finish the season with 40 points, is he? That's the Echo's spin on it., Moyes has said that's the first objective. On current form we would finish on about 50 points[based on points per game so far], but obviously the sooner we get to 40 points the more chance there is that we can push on and achieve a higher level of points than 50. Or to put it another way, the sooner we don't get to 40 points, the more likely we are to be involved in a relegation scrap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 Let's have some perspective here. Moyes isn't saying he'll be happy to finish the season with 40 points, is he? That's the Echo's spin on it., Moyes has said that's the first objective. On current form we would finish on about 50 points[based on points per game so far], but obviously the sooner we get to 40 points the more chance there is that we can push on and achieve a higher level of points than 50. Or to put it another way, the sooner we don't get to 40 points, the more likely we are to be involved in a relegation scrap. well put J.P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nogs Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 Moyes always has and always will be a dour Scot, and seems to revel in portraying that image to the media. He's a hard one to fathom, because although his first priority is clearly defence and his absolute refusal to deviate from 4-5-1 is infuriating to the fans, sometimes you see us play some beautiful, free-flowing stuff with the ball on the deck and wonder why on earth we don't do that all the time? He does have to be careful of his pessimism, the great managers instill an air of invincibility in their teams by acting/sounding like they are unbeatable, and you don't need a fortune to buy the best players, Clough was a genius at using his own arrogance to inspire his players and picking formations/stylkes of play that made the best of their strengths and weaknesses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanchesterCity Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 I just think he likes to understate his ambition, or rather set expectation reasonably low, and end up exceeding it. Setting your stall out with 'We expect to be top 6' in some folks minds is setting yourself up for a fall. There are other managers - Rednapp for instance, who'll go the opposite way "we can win the PL, FOR SURE!!" etc etc always upbeat. Neither is right or wrong, but I do sometimes think managers who moan a lot just tend to bring criticism on themselves from others outside the club (other fans!). Then again, who cares what other fans think? Wenger never sees anything, Fergie gets bad decisions, Mancini just says 'this is football', Moyes never has money, McCarthy's constantly unlucky, Harry is always looking to bring in a Top Top player etc They all have their styles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 (edited) My realistic expectations is that a manager who has run the club (albeit under tough financial constraints) for the past 10 years, is on £70k a week, who clearly has some tactical 'development' issues needs to understand that the team he has is more than good enough to offer a quality and level of performance which is better than the dross that has been served up so far. There are the likes of Wolves, Swansea, Wigan, Blackburn, Sunderland, Fulham, QPR, West Brom, Newcastle in this league that I believe we have a superior first 11 to. Moyes negativity both in tactics and press conferences is shocking and a disgrace. I hope he watched Liverpool last night, as much as I hate them, they have served up excellent consecutive games against quality opposition which should make Moyes ashamed of himself. I don't care that they spent £120m - realistically they bought no much better than what we have. It's the tempo and quality of football that is being played by the reds that concerns me - we won't be like that under moyes. Hmmmmm so who have we got that you would put in the same bracket as Suarez? Oh and incidentally all the teams that you mentioned are below us in the table ,with the exception of Newcastle who I think will soon start sliding back down anyway Edited November 30, 2011 by duncanmckenzieismagic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanchesterCity Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 (edited) Nobody!... unless you bought Tom Daly! Might be able to teach him how to dive properly ;-) Edited November 30, 2011 by BlueSky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 Hmmmmm so who have we got that you would put in the same bracket as Suarez? Oh and incidentally all the teams that you mentioned are below us in the table ,with the exception of Newcastle who I think will soon start sliding back down anyway Based on goals per minutes vellios. He is doing what strikers are meant to do. As for the other teams, they are mentioned to reaffirm the competition! Why is he making 40 points even a sub goal - pathetic. Moyes is a sandbagger, a £70k a week one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 Based on goals per minutes vellios. He is doing what strikers are meant to do. As for the other teams, they are mentioned to reaffirm the competition! Why is he making 40 points even a sub goal - pathetic. Moyes is a sandbagger, a £70k a week one. sorry but all teams' first goal is 40 points and safety. ALL teams. For some teams its just assumed as a given. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 sorry but all teams' first goal is 40 points and safety. ALL teams. For some teams its just assumed as a given. You go for a run and want to do six miles do you tell yourself two is the starting block? No you don't, you think of seven, if you get past six you achieved your goal but seven is a bonus. Just a nonsense mentality, sandbagging at its worst. I wouldn't want to play golf against him. Does he play off 36? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 sorry but all teams' first goal is 40 points and safety. Which is kind of the point he was making I think... “We need to get to 40 points like every other team, and then see where we can go from there,” ....and given the last bit of the sentence he takes it as read that we'll get there. It's the spin the Echo put on it that makes it sound like "...forty points is our target." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 Which is kind of the point he was making I think... “We need to get to 40 points like every other team, and then see where we can go from there,” ....and given the last bit of the sentence he takes it as read that we'll get there. It's the spin the Echo put on it that makes it sound like "...forty points is our target." I know mate, was trying to explain Capt Happy, sorry Haffy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 I know mate, was trying to explain Capt Happy, sorry Haffy... It's a load of rubbish to come out with that nonsense, don't even bring it up! Does any of the top managers do it?! Do they heck!!! Totally the wrong message to even mention 40 points. Whenever any team sets sub targets is it any wonder they struggle over the line, when we finished 4th it happened. It's just not the right message to use the 40 point line in any context. I would sooner hear him saying we are not where we should be, we have had back to back wins and top 6-7 is a realistic aim. Give his players some belief! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 It's a load of rubbish to come out with that nonsense, don't even bring it up! Does any of the top managers do it?! Do they heck!!! Totally the wrong message to even mention 40 points. Whenever any team sets sub targets is it any wonder they struggle over the line, when we finished 4th it happened. It's just not the right message to use the 40 point line in any context. I would sooner hear him saying we are not where we should be, we have had back to back wins and top 6-7 is a realistic aim. Give his players some belief! Im sure that if the "top" managers didnt have hundreds of millions to spend on the worlds best players they would do the same. But you know what, even though they do, I reckon they still do and its like a checklist: 1/ Get 40 points 2/ Get European qualification 3/ Get CL qualification 4/ Aim for the league title ...... Its what i would do going for a 6 mile run 1/ Review after 2miles 2/ Aim for target and achieve 3/ After achieving target see how much further I can go. Aiming for 7 miles without being sensible and realistic will only result in a a few miles achieved before suffering an injury, leading to failure and miserably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 I know mate, was trying to explain Capt Happy, sorry Haffy... I know you know....I was agreeing with you . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 Im sure that if the "top" managers didnt have hundreds of millions to spend on the worlds best players they would do the same. But you know what, even though they do, I reckon they still do and its like a checklist: 1/ Get 40 points 2/ Get European qualification 3/ Get CL qualification 4/ Aim for the league title ...... Its what i would do going for a 6 mile run 1/ Review after 2miles 2/ Aim for target and achieve 3/ After achieving target see how much further I can go. Aiming for 7 miles without being sensible and realistic will only result in a a few miles achieved before suffering an injury, leading to failure and miserably. Seen on a few forums that many are bewildered with the comments, think it, do not say it. He's already talked up the likes of city and Liverpool over us before a ball was kicked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 Seen on a few forums that many are bewildered with the comments, think it, do not say it. He's already talked up the likes of city and Liverpool over us before a ball was kicked. the same many that support the BU? If thats the case Im too tired to do this..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 the same many that support the BU? If thats the case Im too tired to do this..... Talking about moyes - wtf are you on about the BU for?! Jog on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 Talking about moyes - wtf are you on about the BU for?! Jog on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 How is that bollocks? Dalgish had over £120M of attacking options open to him Moyes had an ageing Cahill an out of sorts Saha and a 50p Greek kid and you seriously think thats irrelevant?? Having £120mil worth of players doesnt effect any of the pressing, determination, pace of play or willingness to receive the ball & win the ball back. Liverpool played like a team and got the results they have deserved. We used to do it with a worse squad than we had now so that £120mil is a bollocks arguement. They didnt win because Suarez cost £25mil and Carroll £30mi (or whatever it was) they won because the showed more desire & commitment than the opposition and Dagleish set them out tactically to play to the best of their abilities. Against Chelsea, it wasnt a worldy goal that they scored, it was good high pressing on Mikel, with other player breaking forward in support. Incidentally I might add, I suggested Moyes press Mikel when we played them the first time because he is clearly a weak link. Liverpool jumped on him all night and he was hauled off at half time. On the other hand Moyes just let him dictate the tempo of Chelsea's play, barely pressed and they walked all over us. That is why it is irrelevant in this instance. He's said similar in the past and it got right under my skin then, and it's got under my skin now. It explains why we come out so defensively set up. Getting 40 points is a goal for the real relegation candidates and while he may have that thought in the back of his head, he should NEVER say it, given the resources he has available on the pitch. If I was a player under him now, I would be furious. We have a team full of World Class internationals and he is looking over his shoulder before the season has already begun, and concerned that they might not be good enough to get more than 40 points. Goal setting is a motivational tool, and its no wonder the players have looked half assed a lot this season when the managers main concern is relegation. My realistic expectations is that a manager who has run the club (albeit under tough financial constraints) for the past 10 years, is on £70k a week, who clearly has some tactical 'development' issues needs to understand that the team he has is more than good enough to offer a quality and level of performance which is better than the dross that has been served up so far. There are the likes of Wolves, Swansea, Wigan, Blackburn, Sunderland, Fulham, QPR, West Brom, Newcastle in this league that I believe we have a superior first 11 to. Moyes negativity both in tactics and press conferences is shocking and a disgrace. I hope he watched Liverpool last night, as much as I hate them, they have served up excellent consecutive games against quality opposition which should make Moyes ashamed of himself. I don't care that they spent £120m - realistically they bought no much better than what we have. It's the tempo and quality of football that is being played by the reds that concerns me - we won't be like that under moyes. I agree, there is no-one in their squad that I think would jump straight into ours. Suarez is a good player, but Saha can be just as good. Suarez is overall the better player because he works harder. Yes he is a twat, but at the same time he does everything you would want from your main striker. The only other one would be Glen Johnson, who isnt amazing at the back, but he offers more than the rest of our similar players going forward. Their midfield is solid, but fairly average at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 I'd take loads of their players to be honest Bailey. I think they have real quality now all over the pitch. Downing would work well in our team I feel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 Reina's better than Howard Johnson is better than Hibbert Baines is as good if not better than Enrique Jags is better than Skrtel I'd rather have Agger than Distin with his age Bellamy is better than Coleman Downing is a more consistent player than Drenthe Fellaini is better than Lucas Rodwell and Adam are totally different players - I'd prefer Rodwell Gerrard is a better all round player than Cahill Suarez is a player in his prime (one of the best strikers in the world) he is much better and consistent than an aging Saha. - they have spent well since Dalgleish has returned and before anyone says Andy Carroll who would you prefer Torres and Babel or Suarez and Carroll? I hate Liverpoo but they currently have a better team/squad than us and a lot of that is to do with money. Money buys quality if spent correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFC-Paul Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 Sorry I have to say Downing is not a consistant player He's utter shite, He's a corbon copy of Bentley decent cross nothing else to offer. You could compare every team in the league to one another and at what gain? It's not just the fee its the wages the Club's appeal and the level they compete at that draws players. Moyes as with EVERY manager has his flawess and for me he is tactically inept at times & negative for the most part. If you look at teams like Newcastle albiet they are punching above their weight at the moment set up shop on the offensive and it's stiffled teams and it gets results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 Reina's better than Howard Johnson is better than Hibbert Baines is as good if not better than Enrique Jags is better than Skrtel I'd rather have Agger than Distin with his age Bellamy is better than Coleman Downing is a more consistent player than Drenthe Fellaini is better than Lucas Rodwell and Adam are totally different players - I'd prefer Rodwell Gerrard is a better all round player than Cahill Suarez is a player in his prime (one of the best strikers in the world) he is much better and consistent than an aging Saha. - they have spent well since Dalgleish has returned and before anyone says Andy Carroll who would you prefer Torres and Babel or Suarez and Carroll? I hate Liverpoo but they currently have a better team/squad than us and a lot of that is to do with money. Money buys quality if spent correctly. Hibbert is a better defender than Johnson, Johnson is better going forward. Downing is so unbelievably crap its untrue. Otherwise i agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 Sorry I have to say Downing is not a consistant player He's utter shite, He's a corbon copy of Bentley decent cross nothing else to offer. You could compare every team in the league to one another and at what gain? It's not just the fee its the wages the Club's appeal and the level they compete at that draws players. Moyes as with EVERY manager has his flawess and for me he is tactically inept at times & negative for the most part. If you look at teams like Newcastle albiet they are punching above their weight at the moment set up shop on the offensive and it's stiffled teams and it gets results. ..but the comments were regarding the quality in each squad and £120m doesn't win you games. Over a period of time e.g. a season, class will shine through... money buys class! Of course there are occassions where other things affect the outcome - however good any player is they are all human (even Messi). If Moyes spent £120m I'd expect Champions League no ifs, no buts. He hasn't! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 Hibbert is a better defender than Johnson, Johnson is better going forward. Downing is so unbelievably crap its untrue. Otherwise i agree He's clearly not though and would walk into our team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 Lol Bailey can you please name just one of our " World Class Internationals" ? You keep banging on about Dalglish and what a great job he is doing. They are only 7 points ahead of us and we have a game in hand. So when you take the Rodwell incident into account we would probably only be 1 point behind them now. I am pretty sure if Moyes had of been given that kind of money to spend he would have done a much better job We are a better side than Newcastle and I firmly beleive we will finish above them this year. I just cant beleive how fickle internet fans are, it was the same this time last year all wanting rid of Moyes to bring in a great young manager like Owen Cotle or Ian Holloway, look what happened there . Ian Holloway is back in the Championship and Coyle is looking like joining him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 He's clearly not though and would walk into our team. we will have to agree to disagree here. Hes fast but like a headless chicken and 1 footed - we already have Coleman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 Lol Bailey can you please name just one of our " World Class Internationals" ? You keep banging on about Dalglish and what a great job he is doing. They are only 7 points ahead of us and we have a game in hand. So when you take the Rodwell incident into account we would probably only be 1 point behind them now. I am pretty sure if Moyes had of been given that kind of money to spend he would have done a much better job We are a better side than Newcastle and I firmly beleive we will finish above them this year. I just cant beleive how fickle internet fans are, it was the same this time last year all wanting rid of Moyes to bring in a great young manager like Owen Cotle or Ian Holloway, look what happened there . Ian Holloway is back in the Championship and Coyle is looking like joining him Baines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 "Fickle Internet fans" eh Dunc aka "I go to all games, therefore I'm a proper fan and love the club more" Throw fellaini into the world class league if you go on the basis he would get in most teams midfields who happen to have world class players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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