Martinez V Moyes - transfers

[Hafnia]

 

Plus, she's known for enjoying different positions and likes to experiment. Some of her positions are rather unusual, but they lead to a really enjoyable form of play.

 

Yes, she doesn't go out and get the shopping in 5 minutes before the shop closes to be told "sorry, i've cashed up for the day, please come back in January where it will cost you 20% more"

[StevO]

 

Plus, she's known for enjoying different positions and likes to experiment. Some of her positions are rather unusual, but they lead to a really enjoyable form of play.

 

And a few days after she moves in she brings all of her friends round to join in!

[Sideliner]

even with a fat wallet at Man United Mr Moyes has only made an unknown I mil signing -

somehow Martinez manages to spend more with less -

but the proof of the pudding will be in the playing on the pitch - this thread compares the signing strategies of the two managers - not the league position they will finish in

[Guest]

Exactly. Rumours are we are signing Moses on loan. Top signing and will allow us to play so many different formations

[Newty82]

Very impressed with Martinez moves so far. From the beginning I have been pro-martinez. IMWT!!!

 

But its far too early to compare to Moyes...and totally unfair to both.Moyes made some shrewd moves in the market...Howard, Jags, Baines, Distin, Coleman, Cahill, Neville, Pienaar, Morales, Fellaini, Saha, Gibson, Donovan, lescott, Arteta, Yobo...not bad really.

 

Also...Messi is a superstar. This kid could be...but isnt yet. Proof is in the pudding.

[Avinalaff]

.................................. and back on topic

[Guest]

Thiago should have been wrapped up but is going to Munich. The point of the topic whose buys were best its the nature of who the manager wants and how quickly he identifies them

[Walker]

So far I am far from pleased from what I've seen of our transfers, A manager who buys a large crop of players who he used to manage is a weak manager. It shows a lack of confidence in being able to instill tactics and belief in a new group of players. That young Barca kid...looks great on YouTube but when he's thrown into the competitive fire of the Premier League you'd have to wonder. He could take to it fine...but he could also be found hiding. Plus Kone for 5million and is 29, Alcaraz for free I can take but I don't see the reasoning behind it in the sense he is 30 and no major improvement on that is already there. same with Kone. Is he really better than Anichebe, Jelavic, Vellios, Mirallas? He's not going to drastically improve as a player and at 29, will have no resale value and for that sort of money with our budget restraints just seems a poor investment to me. Be much better off buying someone younger who will improve. Or even play Mirallas as a striker and spend the money on a winger.

Also, it makes me dissapointed to see Everton fans raving about Deulofeu, we are one of the most successful English clubs of all time. And should behave like it. They shouldn't be taking a punt on Barca kids for no benefit. If anything giving him game time will hamper other players development. He's not going to sign permantely so why take him in and develop him in our squad for Barca to reap the rewards? Everton should start acting the size of club they are. Wigan are the type of club who brings in a few lads over a season, develops them and sends them home or sells them. Not Everton. This is why I hate Sky so much...the amount of money they have pumped into bloating English football suddenly makes you think that Wigan aren't a million miles apart from a club like Everton. The vast amount of tv money...obscures actual reality. Wigan is a minority football town in a Rugby League mad area and Everton have won more championships than most. Say what you want about the standard of the Ervidise or the Belgian league...at least Ajax, Psv, Feyenood and Anderlecht act like the size of club they are....multiple league winners, former European champions etc. No bowing of the head or what you get with big clubs who have faded in England.

Robles, is promising however. Looks to be able to compete with Howard for the #1 role, Howard has had a serious lack of competition over the last few years and it reflects in his performance.

Just in general we should be trying to sign younger age profiles of players who can improve their game. Signing 3 of these guys isin't solving any problems, we've not improved the side drastically at all in signing them? added competition? What's the point in adding competition if their not an improvement on whats there already? If anything it affects the progress of talented youngsters like, Kennedy, Stones, Barkley, Oviedo, Vellios, Duffy because they're all in similiar positions. If given game time they will definately get better than what Alcaraz and Kone and Deulofeu are on now? If anything this holds them back for no long term progress?

 

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[Cornish Steve]

Or even play Mirallas as a striker and spend the money on a winger....we are one of the most successful English clubs of all time. And should behave like it....They shouldn't be taking a punt on Barca kids for no benefit...Signing 3 of these guys isin't solving any problems

 

#1: Based on Mirallas' performance today - missing a clear opportunity and doing little else - it would be a big risk relying on him to produce goals.

 

#2: Everton has a proud history, but it has comparatively little money to spend and a sizable debt. The only way to succeed with such constraints is to be different - a la Moneyball, for example. RM did this at Swansea, taking them from the bottom of the lowest division to near the top of the second. That's how we must behave, not arrogantly assuming success simply because there's a history.

 

#3: Don't view Deulofeu as a one-off one-year loanee. Instead, see his capture as the first in a series of such loans and an enviable link to the Barca farm system. What a great way to add exciting young players that we could not otherwise afford.

 

#4: Bringing in these guys does solve a problem - a lack of depth to the squad. What happens if Everton loses two or three top players to long-term injury? Without squad depth, the impact could be catastrophic. Plus, more depth brings with it increased competition for places and the opportunity to rest players more.

[Walker]

In fairness, that was a pre-season friendly after being back training for a week. Alot of players made mistakes today it's normal when your not match fit. He played up front mostly for Olympiakos, i just suggested it was an option instead of bringing Kone in.

 

I was simply pointing out we are a club with alot more history than Wigan, therefore shouldn't be behaving like them. It saddened me more than anything to see fans wet themselves to see a "Wonderkid" from Barca sign on a one year loan deal. I hope the guy comes in and does a great job but we would be much better off nurturing what talent we have instead of nurturing someone elses. Yes, we could not afford this type of player, so that is why i mentioned we need to be bringing in young guys for fees we can afford, i realise this is easier said than done but Martinez has done this before in the past? Why not continue doing this at Everton, he signed, McCarthy, Diame, Moses, McMannaman for very little money and they excelled and performed brilliantly and would all now be regarded as good premier league players. If he's bought promising players for little money in the past surely with a club with a reputation like Everton could attract these young players with development potential who maybe would have rejected a move to Wigan?

 

No matter what way you look at it these guys are at an age where they're not going to improve massively, or are an improvement on what is already in the squad. Absolutely no point in bringing in guys to add to the depth of a squad if they are worse than you already have there? That's just making your squad worse, doesn't mean it adds competition. Also it affects our younger players development if these guys get a run in the team ahead of them.

[Cornish Steve]

In fairness, that was a pre-season friendly after being back training for a week. Alot of players made mistakes today it's normal when your not match fit. He played up front mostly for Olympiakos, i just suggested it was an option instead of bringing Kone in.

 

True - I'm reading too much into a single game. Still, Everton isn't known right now for their firepower, and Mirallas didn't help that reputation today. Kone has a track record in the EPL and Euro leagues, so I'm sure he'll add a new dimension. We shall see once the new season begins.

 

...we need to be bringing in young guys for fees we can afford, i realise this is easier said than done but Martinez has done this before in the past? Why not continue doing this at Everton, he signed, McCarthy, Diame, Moses, McMannaman for very little money and they excelled and performed brilliantly and would all now be regarded as good premier league players. If he's bought promising players for little money in the past surely with a club with a reputation like Everton could attract these young players with development potential who maybe would have rejected a move to Wigan?

 

It's a fair point. RM has been in the job only two weeks and has brought in players he knows and trusts. In the remainder of the window, we may well see the transfer of some younger players with potential - from the Spanish and LatAm leagues in particular. A lot probably depends on what happens with Fellaini and Baines, because 40m would do some serious damage.

 

 

No matter what way you look at it these guys are at an age where they're not going to improve massively, or are an improvement on what is already in the squad. Absolutely no point in bringing in guys to add to the depth of a squad if they are worse than you already have there? That's just making your squad worse, doesn't mean it adds competition. Also it affects our younger players development if these guys get a run in the team ahead of them.

 

We'll have to agree to differ on this one. Personally, I think it's important to add depth and experience to the squad, and I don't see the recent transfer signings as poor quality at all. Indeed, their stats are better than those for the current roster. I'm sure we're going to see more subs coming on this season and times when first team players will be rested. This is a great way to develop the younger players.

[Bailey]

In fairness, that was a pre-season friendly after being back training for a week. Alot of players made mistakes today it's normal when your not match fit. He played up front mostly for Olympiakos, i just suggested it was an option instead of bringing Kone in.

 

I was simply pointing out we are a club with alot more history than Wigan, therefore shouldn't be behaving like them. It saddened me more than anything to see fans wet themselves to see a "Wonderkid" from Barca sign on a one year loan deal. I hope the guy comes in and does a great job but we would be much better off nurturing what talent we have instead of nurturing someone elses. Yes, we could not afford this type of player, so that is why i mentioned we need to be bringing in young guys for fees we can afford, i realise this is easier said than done but Martinez has done this before in the past? Why not continue doing this at Everton, he signed, McCarthy, Diame, Moses, McMannaman for very little money and they excelled and performed brilliantly and would all now be regarded as good premier league players. If he's bought promising players for little money in the past surely with a club with a reputation like Everton could attract these young players with development potential who maybe would have rejected a move to Wigan?

 

No matter what way you look at it these guys are at an age where they're not going to improve massively, or are an improvement on what is already in the squad. Absolutely no point in bringing in guys to add to the depth of a squad if they are worse than you already have there? That's just making your squad worse, doesn't mean it adds competition. Also it affects our younger players development if these guys get a run in the team ahead of them.

From what I saw of Mirallas when he played off the striker he simply couldnt play that role well enough in the Premier League. He isnt strong enough and he doesnt hold the ball up well enough against big strong CB's. Just because he can do it in Greece doesnt mean he can do it here.

 

Nurturing who exactly. If we had players with this guys talent and potential then we wouldnt be signing him in the first place. Im sure his signing wont affect the likes of Barkley because they are completely different players and how on earth this becomes an issue with Martinez rather than it did with playing Naismith and out of form Osman's & Pienaar's is beyond me. If we were signing Arsenal youngsters on loan I would agree but Barcelona has probabaly the best academy in world football and this lad is meant to be the best of the next generation from it.

 

Kone, Robles and Deulofeu lad are all better than what we had at times last season. I would also argue that Alcaraz is a better option than Heitinga (based on last years form) and Duffy. Kone would start without a doubt for me, Robles would be 50/50 and Deulofeu is an option we didnt have before. I dont expect Alcaraz to start but on a free for relatively low wages he is an astute signing.

[Steve_E]

From what I saw of Mirallas when he played off the striker he simply couldnt play that role well enough in the Premier League. He isnt strong enough and he doesnt hold the ball up well enough against big strong CB's. Just because he can do it in Greece doesnt mean he can do it here.

 

 

He never did it in Greece either, he played on the left wing for Olympiakos.

[Bailey]

 

He never did it in Greece either, he played on the left wing for Olympiakos.

 

I always thought he was a winger but presumed I was mistaken!

[MarcBell]

Can't believe people are even comparing the two after no more than 2 weeks incharge!!

 

Bearing in mind 3 of the 4 signings got relegated along with Martinez (touch wood) doesn't mean that he is better?

 

The young Lad is the most promising of the 4 IMO....

[Hafnia]

Can't believe people are even comparing the two after no more than 2 weeks incharge!!

 

Bearing in mind 3 of the 4 signings got relegated along with Martinez (touch wood) doesn't mean that he is better?

 

The young Lad is the most promising of the 4 IMO....

Our club captain and England international phil Jagielka got relegated with Sheffield united, our ageless French international distin got relegated with Portsmouth. Great players.

[pete0]

I don't get the relegation argument at all, West Ham's whole XI got sold back to prem teams after they went down. The main reason Wigan didn't stay up is that their main players were injured for large chunks of the season. 2011-12 they picked up 3 points away to Arsenal and Liverpool, an accomplishment Moyes didn't manage in his time at the Everton.