Guest blueboy122 Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 Make no mistake, John Brooks is a German who is a US international his father is American. He's only ever really been to the US on vacations and for training camps. Born and raised in Berlin. He's never really left. If he wasn't associated with the US, and he was thought of solely as a young, up and coming German center back, people would have very different feelings about him. The way people talk about Martins Indi, for instance, when he's just as unproven as Brooks at this stage in his career, is a case in point. Martins Indi looked pretty much shite and slow the other day, by the way. Fair enough, he does play in a decent league to by all accounts so it's not as if he would come from the MLS which with all due respect is no where near the premier league obviously. I would give him a chance definitely if he came here. Our American members seem to rate him highly. I don't think Cameron is much good though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 Cameron is better than Brooks, no doubt, but Brooks is way further along in his career at this point. Cameron was still playing college ball and wasn't a professional until about age 23, like most US players. I think our lack of a youth setup is what makes lag behind the world a little bit; that, and a general lack of interest by the population. That said, US soccer(sorry, football) has grown exponentially since the last couple of world cups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_E Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 Make no mistake, John Brooks is a German who is a US international his father is American. He's only ever really been to the US on vacations and for training camps. Born and raised in Berlin. He's never really left. If he wasn't associated with the US, and he was thought of solely as a young, up and coming German center back, people would have very different feelings about him. The way people talk about Martins Indi, for instance, when he's just as unproven as Brooks at this stage in his career, is a case in point. Martins Indi looked pretty much shite and slow the other day, by the way. Martins Indi has had a pretty shitty season in general as well. I liked the look of Brooks, not just because of his goal. Just his physical frame and some good reading of certain crosses and through balls. Obviously I haven't seen much of him, but he looked comfortable on the ball as well. I'd be happy to get him and see if Brooks and Stones can become the successors to Distin and Jags. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post JoeQuince Posted June 21, 2014 Popular Post Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 I do like the sound of "Brooks and Stones"... Sounds like a 60s folk duo. Sibdane, Quinn31, pete0 and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thoward18 Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 Fair enough, he does play in a decent league to by all accounts so it's not as if he would come from the MLS which with all due respect is no where near the premier league obviously. I would give him a chance definitely if he came here. Our American members seem to rate him highly. I don't think Cameron is much good though Well this is pretty ridiculous. Most people, sir Alex Furguson included, have put the better MLS teams on par with mid-championship teams. There's no doubt in my mind that some of these teams would compete with, if not often beat, a Barnsley. You know, where John Stones came from. So I guess we should have said no to John Stones. Because a bottom-tier Championship team is nowhere near the EPL so therefore no players good enough for the EPL could possibly exist within the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blueboy122 Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 Well this is pretty ridiculous. Most people, sir Alex Furguson included, have put the better MLS teams on par with mid-championship teams. There's no doubt in my mind that some of these teams would compete with, if not often beat, a Barnsley. You know, where John Stones came from. So I guess we should have said no to John Stones. Because a bottom-tier Championship team is nowhere near the EPL so therefore no players good enough for the EPL could possibly exist within the team. What's ridiculous? I would agree with you that the MLS is about as competitive as the championship. Actually more like a league one to be fair. I would be cautious signing players from any leagues but especially leagues that are not the standard of our own that's not saying we shouldn't do it though obviously. Why should we have said no to Stones? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 What's ridiculous? I would agree with you that the MLS is about as competitive as the championship. Actually more like a league one to be fair. I would be cautious signing players from any leagues but especially leagues that are not the standard of our own that's not saying we shouldn't do it though obviously. Why should we have said no to Stones? I would agree that the MLS is about on a par with the English League 1 - not too good at all. However...that does not mean that there aren't very talented and world-class American players. I don't know what leagues there on in Cote d'Ivoire, for example, but the country has produced some of the world's best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikica Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 His celebration is what the WC is all about - unbridled joy and disbelief at an everlasting moment for him. He didn't have a standout game but it was lovely to see (even though in the end I wanted Ghana to win as I thought they were the better team overall, and their equaliser was a lovely goal). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blueboy122 Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 I would agree that the MLS is about on a par with the English League 1 - not too good at all. However...that does not mean that there aren't very talented and world-class American players. I don't know what leagues there on in Cote d'Ivoire, for example, but the country has produced some of the world's best. I know! Trying to find where I said we shouldn't be recruiting players from less a leagues than our own! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikica Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 (edited) I would agree that the MLS is about on a par with the English League 1 - not too good at all. However...that does not mean that there aren't very talented and world-class American players. I don't know what leagues there on in Cote d'Ivoire, for example, but the country has produced some of the world's best. That could be argued to be due to the poor infrastructure and poverty of the African continent, though. The youngsters in Africa also play football non-stop; in the States football is perceived to be for the 'weaker kids', unfortunately. America is also is a very capitalist and wealthy nation - although you could say that most of their investment goes into their own sports, not football. There are some very talented American players (was a big fan of Donovan for example), but I'm not sure I'd have described any of them as top or world class - but everyone's definition of that varies. Ultimately they're just terms and being reasonably talented (or even not talented at all )is often enough to give a game to the big boys, even if you're not at that very top level. That's why the USA have done reasonably well in recent World Cups. Most of the time they get hit with hard groups too because they've been in a pot with the rest of CONCACAF and AFC. But I am going off on a tangent in this paragraph. Edited June 21, 2014 by Nikica Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 (edited) That could be argued to be due to the poor infrastructure and poverty of the African continent, though. The youngsters in Africa also play football non-stop; in the States football is perceived to be for the 'weaker kid' I wouldn't agree with this, though. Far more American youngsters play "soccer" every weekend than other sports. Just around here, I know of four sports complexes (maybe within 20 minutes' drive) that each have five fields with games played from 8am to 6pm on Saturdays and 1pm to 6pm on Sundays. Just think about the numbers: 15 games per field each weekend. 5 fields per complex (that's an underestimate, actually, because some have ten or more fields), that's 75 games. An average of maybe 7 a side (based on age group), that's over 1,000 kids per complex, so about 4,000 players. And that's just within 20 minutes' drive. You can probably multiply that by 5 across the Atlanta area, so that's a lot of children playing soccer. The issue in the US always comes back to TV advertising. For baseball, (American) football, basketball, and hockey games, there are commercial breaks every 5-10 minutes. Let's be conservative and assume 6 breaks per hour. You can't do that with soccer. Without the support of advertisers, soccer will not become a mainstream sport in the US. Huge numbers of people play, and large numbers attend some of the MLS games. Increasingly, it's becoming a popular sport at universities. But none of that matters nearly as much as finding out how to inject frequent commercials into broadcast games. But all that's irrelevant anyway because Brooks is really German. Edited June 21, 2014 by Cornish Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 (edited) yes I notice whenever I go to Buffalo there are always football matches going on all over. I do see a lot of baseball matches also. But as soon as the evening comes the city seems to turn to the adult games which is mainly Ice Hockey there. But I still think there is talent to be found in the American leagues. Brooks could be nurtured into a very good footballer if his showing so far is anything to go by. Don't see why he couldn't be brought in with a mind to replace Distin? Edited June 21, 2014 by Shukes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 To all your points, yes tons and tons of kids play soccer (every young child does, hence the term "soccer mom" for parents of children that play). i agree with steve and the money point. i will add an additional point though. in addition to the money side, the scouting and development of US players is where the breakdown is. MLS academies are new and untested, before that kids play for a travel team, basically higher level competition than standard children little league. after that they play in high school, and then college and then MLS or abroad. the problem is that until the college/university level all the coaching is mostly fathers who read a "how to coach soccer" book or watch some Real Madrid on the weekends. i know because my father was one! our high school soccer coach was the physical education/gym teacher! we were always in the state championships every year (perennially a best team in the state) and had a lot of talent, but to be honest, our coaches were just coaching to get an extra 10k a year, they didn't truly know what they were doing, and we were top of the class! so i think the coaching and development need a boost from the us soccer federation, to train coaches to truly understand the game. Quinn31 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quinn31 Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 ^ This. I don't think American youth soccer players are really given the best coaching/instruction/training, or truly challenged to become top players. Yeah, sure, we have a ton of young players playing every weekend, but many of them are forced/pushed/placed into playing just to have an "activity" or to stay busy, not because they are passionate about soccer or they come from a soccer crazy culture that encourages competition among young kids and train them to become proper footballers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikica Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 (edited) I agree with a lot of what you guys are saying - you are all making sense. My point was more that lots of kids play the game in the USA (as you'd expect because the country has a population of approx 350 million), but they tend to move on to other sports as they age - the 'soccer mom' thing is a pejorative because they don't want to see their kids play the so-called 'tough sports' (we know football is a tough game, but your average American thinks it's for pussies). There seems to be a stigma about playing football over there - there's an obsession with power, height, 'tough guy' status in American sports. That's why games like basketball and American football seem to be very popular. I don't doubt that football is improving in popularity over there, but it still appears that most of the more gifted youngsters eventually move onto one of the American sports. My point about the infrastructure is fair - the USA has a far better set-up than African nations, but the African nations are more football-obsessed and play all the time as they don't have many other distractions. I didn't know Steve and Shukes lived in the States/visit there often. And of course some of the other guys posting actually are American. Based on that, you guys probably do know more about the situation there than I do, and I probably should defer to you all. However, football is still overshadowed in the States and not really an 'obsessive' sport (other than amongst a minority, such as hispanics and the city of Seattle). I think that's a big part of the problem, as well as the fact that football seems to be growing faster in Africa than the States. You'd expect the African leagues to be poor due to lack of money, but the kids play so often that they develop their skills and are exported elsewhere. "but many of them are forced/pushed/placed into playing just to have an "activity" or to stay busy, not because they are passionate about soccer or they come from a soccer crazy culture that encourages competition among young kids and train them to become proper footballers." exactly Quinn - that's basically the same as I said earlier and in this post. Oh, and I totally agree with Steve's point that the commercial aspect of US sports is a major problem - you can't have ad breaks every 5 mins in our football. Edit: Steve, perhaps I misunderstood there. Are you saying that there's lots of football going on in Cornwall, so you're extrapolating that to far bigger areas in the USA? It seems that way on a second reading, but I think perhaps I misunderstood you originally. Edited June 21, 2014 by Nikica Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeQuince Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 yes I notice whenever I go to Buffalo there are always football matches going on all over. I do see a lot of baseball matches also. But as soon as the evening comes the city seems to turn to the adult games which is mainly Ice Hockey there. But I still think there is talent to be found in the American leagues. Brooks could be nurtured into a very good footballer if his showing so far is anything to go by. Don't see why he couldn't be brought in with a mind to replace Distin? You come to Buffalo? Let me know next time you're coming! We should get together for a beer or maybe a match. Hockey, basketball and American football far outweigh soccer's presence here. But, it is increasing in popularity. Soccer has an interesting history here. Paolo Rossi played here briefly in 1980 while banned from playing in Italy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 You come to Buffalo? Let me know next time you're coming! We should get together for a beer or maybe a match. Hockey, basketball and American football far outweigh soccer's presence here. But, it is increasing in popularity. Soccer has an interesting history here. Paolo Rossi played here briefly in 1980 while banned from playing in Italy! Twice a year to visit the company inform for. Would be great to meet you over there. Hopefully I will be heading over in august. Will message you when I'm heading next and see if your free for a night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikica Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 (edited) You come to Buffalo? Let me know next time you're coming! We should get together for a beer or maybe a match. Hockey, basketball and American football far outweigh soccer's presence here. But, it is increasing in popularity. Soccer has an interesting history here. Paolo Rossi played here briefly in 1980 while banned from playing in Italy! Yep. Pele and Beckenbauer played there too. And of course you upset England in the last Brazilian WC. I do think if the USA had the same passion for football that the rest of us have you'd become a superpower, as you have all the ingredients. But I think the dominance of the other sports will always be there. As they say, baseball is as American as apple pie. I think baseball is boring, but I acknowledge the extreme skill it takes to smash a ball with a bat that slim when a ball is flying at you. I've tried it before and I was wank. Edited June 21, 2014 by Nikica Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeQuince Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 Yep. Pele and Beckenbauer played there too. And of course you upset England in the last Brazilian WC. Just meant in Buffalo, itself. The US has had a lot of great players play here though, for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeQuince Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 Twice a year to visit the company inform for. Would be great to meet you over there. Hopefully I will be heading over in august. Will message you when I'm heading next and see if your free for a night. Excellent. I should be able to make time in August. Only a couple of things crowding the calendar at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikica Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 Just meant in Buffalo, itself. The US has had a lot of great players play here though, for sure. Oh right, sorry. I have had a splitting headache today so been misreading a few things. Do you think you'll beat Portugal tomorrow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeQuince Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 Oh right, sorry. I have had a splitting headache today so been misreading a few things. Do you think you'll beat Portugal tomorrow? Tough to say... No Pepe (maybe no Coentrao? Can't remember) and Ronaldo is playing against doctors' orders. They were just destroyed by a German side who just now drew against a team we beat. There are a lot of logical reasons that point to us beating them. I will say that we won't lose the match. Hoping for a win, as it would be crucial to have those two extra points after that draw today ensuring that Germany will have to actually play us in the 3rd match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikica Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 (edited) Tough to say... No Pepe (maybe no Coentrao? Can't remember) and Ronaldo is playing against doctors' orders. They were just destroyed by a German side who just now drew against a team we beat. There are a lot of logical reasons that point to us beating them. I will say that we won't lose the match. Hoping for a win, as it would be crucial to have those two extra points after that draw today ensuring that Germany will have to actually play us in the 3rd match. Coentrao is injured I think, yes. Ronaldo shouldn't play for the sake of his career, but he probably will. I know what you're saying, but football doesn't always work in terms of A beat B, B beat C, so A will beat C theory. I realise you know that and are simply looking at form over a very short group stage. Yeah, think I went for a 1-1 draw in the game. I can see you getting a point, but Ghana could beat Portugal so you might need to avoid a heavy beating against Germany to progress. Edited June 21, 2014 by Nikica Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeQuince Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 Coentrao is injured I think, yes. Ronaldo shouldn't play for the sake of his career, but he probably will. I know what you're saying, but football doesn't always work in terms of A beat B, B beat C, so A will beat C theory. I realise you know that and are simply looking at form over a very short group stage. Yeah, think I went for a 1-1 draw in the game. I can see you getting a point, but Ghana could beat Portugal so you might need to avoid a heavy beating against Germany to progress. I never understood the hype surrounding Portugal prior to the World Cup, and I've never thought we would go away from this match with any less than a point. The US is a hard-working team. I think we would have marked a healthy Ronaldo out of the game, anyhow. I don't see the US choking under the pressure tomorrow. What I do fear is that they won't stamp their authority upon the match, and that they'll be defending the entire time. This is a game that the US can control, and hopefully we will be stronger in the humidity of Manaus and won't give Portugal the 50/50 balls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikica Posted June 22, 2014 Report Share Posted June 22, 2014 I never understood the hype surrounding Portugal prior to the World Cup, and I've never thought we would go away from this match with any less than a point. The US is a hard-working team. I think we would have marked a healthy Ronaldo out of the game, anyhow. I don't see the US choking under the pressure tomorrow. What I do fear is that they won't stamp their authority upon the match, and that they'll be defending the entire time. This is a game that the US can control, and hopefully we will be stronger in the humidity of Manaus and won't give Portugal the 50/50 balls. Yes, Portugal are nothing special really, but they have done well in recent tournaments. Ronaldo thrives on service - cut the supply from midfield and the overlapping full-backs and he's out of the game unless he produces a wonder strike from range. Yep, playing in Manaus should help the USA, not so much in terms of the heat but the humidity as you say. I think you'll get the point, but my prediction tonight was wrong so who knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted June 22, 2014 Report Share Posted June 22, 2014 Coentrao, almeida, pepe, and the keeper are all out and injured. Alves is a game time decision. The only person we are missing is altidore. I am optimistic and American but Portugal looked horrid against both Mexico before the cup warmup and Germany. I see a win or a draw and would be very very surprised if we lost. My man Dempsey will score again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted June 22, 2014 Report Share Posted June 22, 2014 Well I'll definitely be supporting the US. I think I celebrated Brooks' winner the other night more than Rooney's against Uruguay . Sibdane, Quinn31, Matt and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted June 22, 2014 Report Share Posted June 22, 2014 Well I'll definitely be supporting the US. I think I celebrated Brooks' winner the other night more than Rooney's against Uruguay .That's what I like to read! markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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