Should cheating in football be accepted as 'part of the game'

[MC11]

The thread title should be "does diving have any bearing on a players ability" that was the discussion.

[Guest Nikica]

 

I definitely agree with this. Why not explain?

 

Fuck knows. I think the 'reasoning' (and I say that loosely) is that it puts too much pressure on refs. As if reffing in front of a global audience doesn't do that in the first place.

 

 

Or required to do so on occasion.

 

Yes, it should be compulsory on extreme occasions, such as any time Howard Webb is reffing at Old Trafford

[Sibdane]

The thread title should be "does diving have any bearing on a players ability" that was the discussion.

 

I don't think it has any affect on their ability per se, but it definitely makes them a worse footballer, if you know what I mean?

 

Ex: Ashley Young.

[Guest blueboy122]

Never should we accept it. Can't believe that's even a question.

 

Do we accept terrorism just because it exists?

[Guest Nikica]

Never should we accept it. Can't believe that's even a question.

 

Do we accept terrorism just because it exists?

 

Drawing a parallel between gamesmanship in football and terrorism is quite the leap. To be fair I know that's not what you are doing and I see your point. My point is that there's no hope for change as the authorities are corrupt, so why even try?

 

"I don't think it has any affect on their ability per se, but it definitely makes them a worse footballer, if you know what I mean?

Ex: Ashley Young."

That's sort of what I was saying - depending on how good a cheater someone is it can make then a greater or a poorer player.

[MC11]

Never should we accept it. Can't believe that's even a question.

Do we accept terrorism just because it exists?

This made me Lol

[StevO]

I accept that "diving" is part of the game, but it's up to officials to make the right call.

 

One thing I like about refs in MLS is retrospective punishments for players who dive or embellish; they fine and embarrass the player.

 

I love it.

I was thinking last night that the USA players didn't stay down or dive. I don't think I saw it even once to be honest. Maybe this is why?

[Sibdane]

I was thinking last night that the USA players didn't stay down or dive. I don't think I saw it even once to be honest. Maybe this is why?

 

...A little bit of that, but I mainly think it's the general American mentality towards sports; we are taught to be tough and that playing through pain is part of the game.

 

I played quarterback for my football team in junior high and was always taking hits after making a pass or handoff. If you got hit and laid on the ground for too long, you got taken out of the game and someone else took your place. That simple.

[markjazzbassist]

 

...A little bit of that, but I mainly think it's the general American mentality towards sports; we are taught to be tough and that playing through pain is part of the game.

 

I played quarterback for my football team in junior high and was always taking hits after making a pass or handoff. If you got hit and laid on the ground for too long, you got taken out of the game and someone else took your place. That simple.

Agreed. That's also why a lot of people don't like soccer in the states. They say it's a bunch of pretty boy pussies who fall over and scream after getting barely grazed. Meanwhile In hockey guys are skating 20 mph and ramming Into each other.

 

I hate diving.

[Guest blueboy122]

This made me Lol

Can't believe people still say 'lol'

 

You need to leave.

[zequist]

Agreed. That's also why a lot of people don't like soccer in the states. They say it's a bunch of pretty boy pussies who fall over and scream after getting barely grazed. Meanwhile In hockey guys are skating 20 mph and ramming Into each other.

 

I hate diving.

 

Or less than barely grazed. Joel Campbell left a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths in the last US-Costa Rica WC qualifying match when he drew a yellow on Matt Besler by basically walking up behind him and throwing himself on the ground - Besler never even saw him and wasn't quite sure what was going on until the ref waved the card in his face. That one was so ridiculous that even FIFA stepped in and disciplined Campbell for it,but if an American player ever tried a stunt like that, he'd get completely ripped to shreds by American fans and the national media on ESPN and other outlets, and lose a ton of respect in everyone's eyes.

 

Incidentally, just like MLS, the NBA also recently started levying retroactive fines on players who flop during basketball games because fans complained that there was too much of it going on.

[msloan78]

It doesnt have to be automatic red - if the player cheats, give him a booking and if he does it again, a forced substitution. Doesnt detract from the game because teams remain even

I've done similar in school games. Warned all he kids beforehand, basically saying there's no need to appeal or throw yourself about. If I think it's a foul, you'll know because I'll give a free kick but if you start with mouth or cheating, you will leave my pitch.

 

Kids look at you as if you've gone out at first.... And then when I start giving free kicks against them they soon suck it up.

[Matt]

I've done similar in school games. Warned all he kids beforehand, basically saying there's no need to appeal or throw yourself about. If I think it's a foul, you'll know because I'll give a free kick but if you start with mouth or cheating, you will leave my pitch.

 

Kids look at you as if you've gone out at first.... And then when I start giving free kicks against them they soon suck it up.

Exactly! This whole "respect the ref" campaign was a waste of time because it wasnt enforced! How many players crowd the ref when hes making a call? The idea was captains only, then the offending players if im not mistaken. Its another example of the authorities not doing enough to enforce the rules.

 

Oh, and this waving a player up whos tumbled and is screaming blue murder - its a booking if its not a foul! If the booking is not deserved, rescind it after the game with a panel review.

[johnh]

Platini, head honcho of UEFA and who has his eyes on Blatter's job in FIFA, is on record as saying he wants tackling eliminating from the game. Diving and feigning injury helps his cause, so the authorities aren't going to sort it out. When I played in the 1950's/60's you would have been laughed off the field for diving. Our trainer used to say 'when a boxer is hurt, he smiles, so if you get clogged I want to see you smiling. Don't let them see they've hurt you'. Pele is one of the greats and really took some stick during his career, particularly in the 1966 World Cup. I think so called 'greats' are diminished if they cheat.

[MC11]

How ridiculous is the thought of tackling being eliminated from the game.

[Matt]

Platini, head honcho of UEFA and who has his eyes on Blatter's job in FIFA, is on record as saying he wants tackling eliminating from the game. Diving and feigning injury helps his cause, so the authorities aren't going to sort it out. When I played in the 1950's/60's you would have been laughed off the field for diving. Our trainer used to say 'when a boxer is hurt, he smiles, so if you get clogged I want to see you smiling. Don't let them see they've hurt you'. Pele is one of the greats and really took some stick during his career, particularly in the 1966 World Cup. I think so called 'greats' are diminished if they cheat.

[Cornish Steve]

A couple of things really bother me on this topic.

 

Diving. Nani against the US was the perfect example. He deliberately ran into the penalty area and then dramatically fell over. He should have received a yellow care right there but didn't. In this case, and maybe for other forms of cheating, maybe a fourth official can review incidents post-game. Should it become clear that a player cheated, then they receive a retroactive yellow or red card.

 

Time-wasting. A couple of teams have players fall over every few seconds in added time simply to wind down the clock. Their opponents were trying so hard to move forward but had little option but to kick the ball out. Maybe, for such incidents in added time, two minutes plus the new injury time are added to the clock. In other words, penalize the teams doing this instead of letting them get away with it.

[Sibdane]

 

Or less than barely grazed. Joel Campbell left a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths in the last US-Costa Rica WC qualifying match when he drew a yellow on Matt Besler by basically walking up behind him and throwing himself on the ground - Besler never even saw him and wasn't quite sure what was going on until the ref waved the card in his face. That one was so ridiculous that even FIFA stepped in and disciplined Campbell for it,but if an American player ever tried a stunt like that, he'd get completely ripped to shreds by American fans and the national media on ESPN and other outlets, and lose a ton of respect in everyone's eyes.

 

Incidentally, just like MLS, the NBA also recently started levying retroactive fines on players who flop during basketball games because fans complained that there was too much of it going on.

 

This pissed me off to another level. I'll always think of that when I hear Campbell's name mentioned.

[StevO]

I think we used to have the mentality over here of not letting the opponent see you were hurt, also one of the first things my Dad taught me after I got in a fight at school, but we seem to have lost it.

And talking back to the ref is just crazy in my eyes, anyone watch rugby? It just does not happen, why? Because they punish players straight away. I've even heard them calling the ref Sir! In football they see the ref as inferior, that's how it looks to me anyway.

 

I work with a guy from Lancaster, he loves football, but he has two boys, they only play rugby. They did play football too, but he felt they were getting a bit badly influenced by the other kids mouthing off, and the other parents, at the ref the other kids and the other team parents. Tells me this doesn't happen at all at their rugby games.

It seemed drastic to me at first, but I can see why he would do it.

[bluenosetoffee]

Can't believe people still say 'lol'

 

You need to leave.

 

That just made me lol, rofl, lmao ;-).

 

In all seriousness though I do agree players who have the ability shouldn't have the need to "cheat". Unfortunately though it has become part of the game, every player does it.

 

When England were playing their friendlies in Miami the US TV pundits couldn't believe how much players fell on the floor etc

[Sibdane]

I think we used to have the mentality over here of not letting the opponent see you were hurt, also one of the first things my Dad taught me after I got in a fight at school, but we seem to have lost it.

And talking back to the ref is just crazy in my eyes, anyone watch rugby? It just does not happen, why? Because they punish players straight away. I've even heard them calling the ref Sir! In football they see the ref as inferior, that's how it looks to me anyway.

 

I work with a guy from Lancaster, he loves football, but he has two boys, they only play rugby. They did play football too, but he felt they were getting a bit badly influenced by the other kids mouthing off, and the other parents, at the ref the other kids and the other team parents. Tells me this doesn't happen at all at their rugby games.

It seemed drastic to me at first, but I can see why he would do it.

 

Is football becoming an elitist sport? Some of the players today would make you think so.

[Matt]

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/28036237

[StevO]

Is football becoming an elitist sport? Some of the players today would make you think so.

Like Wayne Rooney? Haha

[Guest blueboy122]

These players have lifestyles and are paid more money that is unimaginable to 95% of the population.

 

I find it difficult to understand that they can't behave like ordinary human beings as the very least minimum requirement.

 

To respect oppositions, play the game in a sportsmanship like manner should not be to much to ask from these people who are paid excessive sums of money and role models to millions.

 

It's the basics of acting like a normal civilised human being.