Sunderland (A)

[Hegemon92]

Lukaku and Barkley are getting a lot of flack. Lukaku is 21 and Barkley is 20. They will develop into some of the best players in the world in time and they are playing for the blues. Unfortunately, I feel that they carry too much of a burden and expectation when the real criticism should probably go to the manager. Lukaku and Barkley are both investments that will show their quality and resilience in the long-term. Let's not be so short-sighted and look for scapegoats.

[MC11]

I though Gibson was our solution to that in your opinion? Didn't see much of the game today but he did very little from what I hear.

He is. I didn't see the game also so can't comment but he's a more creative midfielder than the other 3 and a better footballer. We'll see over the course of the next few weeks when grows into the team.

[Guest millwallforever]

I think you all are too quick to judge him. A lot of pressure came with that price tag. He is still only young. Im sure he will become a top top player. I just hope he will be at Everton at the time.

 

I think there is an attitude problem with Lukaku. Look at his performance for Belgium against Croatia; why can't sweat and bleed like that for us? We are the ones paying his wages. The guy is built like a tank, yet plays like a pussycat.

 

[Hegemon92]

Also, if we are giving Lukaku flak for missing that one-on-one, Eto'o missed a good chance in the first 5 mins that would have changed the whole game. It was when Lukaku + Eto'o were playing clinical passes to each other and played Eto'o into the box. Eto'o sent a shot just wide, but had he shot the ball on target it would have been a fantastic scoring opportunity.

[Peter H]

I think there is an attitude problem with Lukaku. Look at his performance for Belgium against Croatia; why can't sweat and bleed like that for us? We are the ones paying his wages. The guy is built like a tank, yet plays like a pussycat.

 

I dont think its an attitude problem in the way you are suggesting but i do feel that there is a confidence issue. He would benifit from seing a sports psychologist imo. I think the price tag, media coverage, fan input along with sub par performances is getting to him. Perhaps not comfortable with the tactics either.

[Matt]

He is. I didn't see the game also so can't comment but he's a more creative midfielder than the other 3 and a better footballer. We'll see over the course of the next few weeks when grows into the team.

we will, if he stays fit. Can't be worse than today, he was awful.

[Peter H]

He is. I didn't see the game also so can't comment but he's a more creative midfielder than the other 3 and a better footballer. We'll see over the course of the next few weeks when grows into the team.

I like Gibbo but im not so sure that we will see the types of performances that he showed us a few seasons ago. He did play really well for us at times. I hope you are right tho

[Brett Angel]

Look at your manager for that who doesn't se to get any criticism at all. However if we created more chances for Lukaku he'd score mor

Totally disagree pal, Eto'o proved today that if anyone is to make a clever run in behind he can pass a ball through the eye of a needle plus he is always looking for lukaku when he is facing goal. This proves that lukaku does not make any valuable run behind the two centre backs but instead comes short for pointless one,two's and runs wide when someone is ready to cross into the box.

[MC11]

Totally disagree pal, Eto'o proved today that if anyone is to make a clever run in behind he can pass a ball through the eye of a needle plus he is always looking for lukaku when he is facing goal. This proves that lukaku does not make any valuable run behind the two centre backs but instead comes short for pointless one,two's and runs wide when someone is ready to cross into the box.

The Lukaku debate is a dead end. It's been done to death. He's our player we've got to deal with it. It's proper boring now though.

[Brett Angel]

The Lukaku debate is a dead end. It's been done to death. He's our player we've got to deal with it. It's proper boring now though.

Yep, cause your wrong. I guessed so.

[MC11]

Yep, cause your wrong. I guessed so.

Ok I'm wrong. It's the most boring subject on here. It's been done for months. He's our player, the managers first choice. No matter how we try to dress it up we're stuck with him.

[Hafnia]

 

 

Hes been critiqued in depth and it is plain to see that he has problems with his game. Yes he can look immense when he is playing against sub standard defenders. When he is marked properly he really is poor.

 

I can accept that we have blown a large amount of money on him. I can't accept the fact that people refuse to allow themselves to be critical of him.

 

As fans we are going to look stupid by pretending that he is the real deal. I'm pissed off at Martinez more than anything, a massive gamble.

[Paddock]

Lukaku gets blamed because he cost 27 million. Simple as that.

 

Yes he has his faults, he infuriates me at times and I'm one of his biggest supporters but to blame him when he's having to drop deep all the time because our manager insists on playing piss pass football is ludicrous.

 

Wedon't create chances, the type of football we play isn't direct enough for the type of player Lukaku is, is that his fault? Is it fuck. Martinez bought him, paid all that money for him then plays him in a way where he has to drop deep then create. He's not a Suarez or an Aguero who excel in that roll he likes and is best playing off the shoulder of the last man.

 

He said himself that Martinez wants him to become a "complete" striker. Well it looks like he doesn't have the attributes or the ability to be that player so play the lad to his strengths and see how he does.

 

I'm sick of us trying to pass the ball into the back of the net, I'm sick of theshit brand of football we've started to play. I don't want to watch us pass the ball round the back onto the midfield back to the back up to the midfield then sideways then back . Teams that are supposedly not as good just sit back and let us have it and we pass it and pass it and eventually because we don't have a fucking clue how to break a defensively set up formation down it get booted in to the final third anyway.

 

I'm sick of seeing us win the ball on the edge ofour area and us starting to bomb forward the when weget to the halfway line we stop and pass it sideways. It's boring and frustrating. We have no flow to our play no positivity no killer instinct. Alls we want to do is pass it about looking good. It's fucking shite.

 

I've said it since he first signed and most of you know anyway but I'll say it again. I'm sick of Martinez. His team selections, subs, formations and reasoning along with his "everything we do is great" attitude do my fucking head right in.

 

I'm so fucking disappointed with us as a unit this season, we've been poor andmost have been laughing and lambasting the likes of Pardew and Rogers yet they've done no worse and better than us this season yet no one says a fucking dicky bird about Martinez, instead most blame Lukaku.

 

Lukaku doesn't pick the team or tell us how to play Martinez does and he should be held accountable for a lot of what's wrong this season.

[MC11]

Lukaku gets blamed because he cost 27 million. Simple as that.

Yes he has his faults, he infuriates me at times and I'm one of his biggest supporters but to blame him when he's having to drop deep all the time because our manager insists on playing piss pass football is ludicrous.

Wedon't create chances, the type of football we play isn't direct enough for the type of player Lukaku is, is that his fault? Is it fuck. Martinez bought him, paid all that money for him then plays him in a way where he has to drop deep then create. He's not a Suarez or an Aguero who excel in that roll he likes and is best playing off the shoulder of the last man.

He said himself that Martinez wants him to become a "complete" striker. Well it looks like he doesn't have the attributes or the ability to be that player so play the lad to his strengths and see how he does.

I'm sick of us trying to pass the ball into the back of the net, I'm sick of theshit brand of football we've started to play. I don't want to watch us pass the ball round the back onto the midfield back to the back up to the midfield then sideways then back . Teams that are supposedly not as good just sit back and let us have it and we pass it and pass it and eventually because we don't have a fucking clue how to break a defensively set up formation down it get booted in to the final third anyway.

I'm sick of seeing us win the ball on the edge ofour area and us starting to bomb forward the when weget to the halfway line we stop and pass it sideways. It's boring and frustrating. We have no flow to our play no positivity no killer instinct. Alls we want to do is pass it about looking good. It's fucking shite.

I've said it since he first signed and most of you know anyway but I'll say it again. I'm sick of Martinez. His team selections, subs, formations and reasoning along with his "everything we do is great" attitude do my fucking head right in.

I'm so fucking disappointed with us as a unit this season, we've been poor andmost have been laughing and lambasting the likes of Pardew and Rogers yet they've done no worse and better than us this season yet no one says a fucking dicky bird about Martinez, instead most blame Lukaku.

Lukaku doesn't pick the team or tell us how to play Martinez does and he should be held accountable for a lot of what's wrong this season.

BOOOOM the fella walks on water with the majority of fans.

[Paddock]

BOOOOM the fella walks on water with the majority of fans.

Exactly because some werethat desperate to get out of the Moyes way of thinking they get blinded.

 

Be careful what you wish for and sometimes it's better the devil you know.

[Newty82]

Get over yourselves. What's so wrong here?

 

He doesn't walk on water but some this stuff is ridiculous.

 

You gents are in for a number of hard years ahead with your total disliking of Martinez (widely applauded in the game) and the style of football (widely applauded in the game).

 

There's about 16 teams in the middle of the league that have not found real consistency yet. The league so far is as tough and unpredictable as it ever has been.

 

I don't get what the big downer is?

 

Lukaku getting criticised has nothing to do with his price tag. He was crap. Gibson was crap. In the first half, Coleman was crap. All different prices.

[Paddock]

Get over yourselves. What's so wrong here?

He doesn't walk on water but some this stuff is ridiculous.

You gents are in for a number of hard years ahead with your total disliking of Martinez (widely applauded in the game) and the style of football (widely applauded in the game).

There's about 16 teams in the middle of the league that have not found real consistency yet. The league so far is as tough and unpredictable as it ever has been.

I don't get what the big downer is?

Lukaku getting criticised has nothing to do with his price tag. He was crap. Gibson was crap. In the first half, Coleman was crap. All different prices.

Lukaku gets criticised regardless whenever we play bad he's the scapegoat because he cost so much money. Money by the way that Mr Martinez deemed him worthy of spending on.

 

You may be happy or see positives in 3 wins in 11 but in me it sets alarm bells ringing and worries me greatly.

 

Also, in case you missed my point. I don't like the brand of football he plays. It's too precise, there is no excitement or fluidity to it it's just pass pass pass for the sake of it. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for a passing style and playing attractive football but with him he will not compromise anything for it. We don't break forward and keep going anymore, as a counter attacking side we are virtually redundant, no fucker is obviously encouraged to shoot because every time there's a long range shot on we shy away from it and pass it fucking sideways or backwards.

 

I hope you're proved right but in 12-18 months time you will see exactly where I'm coming from with all of this because Martinez will be toast by that time. People will and already are starting to wise up to him.

[MC11]

As I've said I'm not sure with Martinez. That's my view. Always has been. I'm still waiting for the trophy, the champions league finish and only then will I be convinced.

 

Was last season a fluke based on Moyes solid defensive foundations with the addition of Martinez attacking flair? Debatable.

[Paddock]

Was last season a fluke based on Moyes solid defensive foundations with the addition of Martinez attacking flair? Debatable.

Yes.

[Hafnia]

Lukaku is not criticised because he cost £28m, he's criticised because he can't control a football. It's pathetic, I've seen far cheaper footballers have a better touch.

 

The reality is this, lukakus touch is poor, seriously poor. Now we have to be critical of the team and tactics because they aren't suited to Romelus deficiencies?

 

 

Excuse after excuse is being made, other people being criticised etc etc, the fact is Martinez has blown way too much money on a player who has much to learn.

 

I was laughed at for suggesting welbeck would have been the smarter buy. I wish we did grab him.

[Newty82]

Lukaku gets criticised regardless whenever we play bad he's the scapegoat because he cost so much money. Money by the way that Mr Martinez deemed him worthy of spending on.

 

I think he's been criticised a lot for valid reasons. We've all done it in the Lukaku thread. Had the full convo. I was disappointed with him today because he got my expectations sky high after Lille, he was ace then I thought. Then today, same system, he was mostly dog shit. I still say he'll come good and bang in 15-20 goals...but man its frustrating.

 

You may be happy or see positives in 3 wins in 11 but in me it sets alarm bells ringing and worries me greatly.

 

I don't see positives in 3 wins, I see positives in only 3 defeats. I see positives in how the league is just now. I see positives that we conceded 13 in the first 4 games but only 5 in the following 7 games. Different people see it differently. I see us only 4 points off the much coveted 4th place (not that it matters much after 11 games!), you'll see it as only 5 points off relegation.

 

Also, in case you missed my point. I don't like the brand of football he plays. It's too precise, there is no excitement or fluidity to it it's just pass pass pass for the sake of it. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for a passing style and playing attractive football but with him he will not compromise anything for it. We don't break forward and keep going anymore, as a counter attacking side we are virtually redundant, no fucker is obviously encouraged to shoot because every time there's a long range shot on we shy away from it and pass it fucking sideways or backwards.

 

We shot plenty from long range today. They went all over the place. Maybe that's why it's discouraged? How many long range shots do you see every weekend in the league and how many actually go in? The ratio is poor. In that way, it makes sense not to try it too often. Although as a spectator it can be frustrating.

 

I hope you're proved right but in 12-18 months time you will see exactly where I'm coming from with all of this because Martinez will be toast by that time. People will and already are starting to wise up to him.

 

No he won't. He'll be given plenty of time at this club because that's what we do.

I respect your opinions Paddy, but I don't get what seems to be over the top criticism of Martinez and the team. All this last season was a fluke stuff is pretty poor. As said above, we shipped 13 in the first 4 games. Now only 5 in the last 7. We've played 4 games in the Europa and conceded 2. And under Martinez we can't defend?

 

So tell me, at what point does it become a Martinez defence? Because at the beginning of the season, that was a Martinez defence. Now that we are steady at the back, is it a Moyes defence again?

 

I know we ain't playing as well as we all think we can, but it ain't THAT bad.

[Newty82]

Lukaku and Barkley are getting a lot of flack. Lukaku is 21 and Barkley is 20. They will develop into some of the best players in the world in time and they are playing for the blues. Unfortunately, I feel that they carry too much of a burden and expectation when the real criticism should probably go to the manager. Lukaku and Barkley are both investments that will show their quality and resilience in the long-term. Let's not be so short-sighted and look for scapegoats.

Missed this earlier.

 

Fair points to be honest.

[jrossiter]

Listen to all of yee. While moyes was there yee all complain about not playing football. Now we Are arguably one of the best footballing sides with more fire power than Liverpool who could have won the league. Granted it's not all fireing but we have seen glimpses of it and it's great to see like against Lille. Nobody but chelsea is performing and I still think we will get going more than Anyone else is likely too so give it a rest!!!!

[Shukes]

Watch the highlights of the west brom match. We sold him for 6m.

I know he isn't a gold scorer but boy can he hold a ball up and use his body.

 

That's why lukaku gets criticised.

[MC11]

Watch the highlights of the west brom match. We sold him for 6m.

I know he isn't a gold scorer but boy can he hold a ball up and use his body.

 

That's why lukaku gets criticised.

Vic is a top player when he's firing.

[Shukes]

Vic is a top player when he's firing.

If Lukaku could use his body like that it would stop most of the criticism.

[MC11]

If Lukaku could use his body like that it would stop most of the criticism.

If you could blend the two unstoppable striker. Vic boss with his back to goal. Lukaku boss with the ball infront of him 18 yards infront of the white posts.

[Brett Angel]

Listen, I remember us playing 4-5-1 against stoke at home under moyes. We havnt seen out games and that's cost us but to go for bobby's neck is just pathetic.

The man is immense, some of our best football has Been under this man, not to mention some of our best goals.

I think everyone is forgetting a few days ago we taught a team in Europe a real lesson. If this was under moyes we'd have showed that team too much respect.

Do you's want us to go back to not playing from the back and just getting hibbert to float an aimless ball down the flank only to ben put under pressure again and again.

Go one up in big games and defend for our lives for the other 89 minutes.

He's god and I won't hear anything else.

Under bobby we can beat anyone because we play on the front foot.

[MC11]

He's god? He's done nothing.

 

We played some great stuff under Moyes. It's a complete myth we didn't. We were a top side under Moyes at times.

 

Until he gets us in the CL or a cup final he ain't even trumped Moyes. He's far from god. Fuck me. Happy with 5th

[Guest blueboy122]

Last season a fluke?