Hafnia Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 No one's defending Martinez... we are questioning why a manager who upon leaving us to get our highest premier league points total without him went to the champions and registered their lowest points total in the premier league is getting credit for something he did not take part in. MikeO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 ....but somehow taking no blame for his role at United?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 I feel an infamous pointless multi page debate coming on. Let me go and get my shorts on. Need to be comfy for this. It's been a while. And in the blue corner........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 ....but somehow taking no blame for his role at United?! what blame? he has similar results to the shitbag who took over and has had even MORE time and even MORE money and he still can't do any better. Not to mention moyes came and had won nothing, this man LVG has won all the honours everywhere in the world!! Fucks sake, everyone on the moyes bashing train needs to get off, he did no worse than a world class manager, which means a lot. I'm sure if he was given another managerial gig he'd do the same as he did with United and Everton, Top 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted May 13, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 what blame? he has similar results to the shitbag who took over and has had even MORE time and even MORE money and he still can't do any better. Not to mention moyes came and had won nothing, this man LVG has won all the honours everywhere in the world!! Fucks sake, everyone on the moyes bashing train needs to get off, he did no worse than a world class manager, which means a lot. I'm sure if he was given another managerial gig he'd do the same as he did with United and Everton, Top 5. Is right Mark spot on. Moyes did a massive job here. I couldn't give a shit what he's done elsewhere. He got us from the start. Martinez on the other hand done an awful job with much much better players and finances. markjazzbassist and MikeO 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 As I've said, 2 wrongs don't make a right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 No one's defending Martinez... we are questioning why a manager who upon leaving us to get our highest premier league points total without him went to the champions and registered their lowest points total in the premier league is getting credit for something he did not take part in. Because Moyes inherited a ruined Utd side, Van Gal has spent 250 mil and they are still shite. I'm not arguing that Martinez breathed fresh life into that squad, he gave them belief but it took him a couple of seasons to stamp his mark on them. The first season the defence was disciplined and well drilled, it had been forged over years no one can walk in and undo that type of thing immediately but slowly but surely bit by bit, piece by piece he unravelled it. That first season was a combination of Martinez belief and optimism l/attacking play and Moyes disciplined tough fighting super fit team. Said it all along, merge Moyes and Martinez and you would have the next Alex Ferguson. markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 Moyes did at United what Martinez did here. Went into a good steady set up and chopped n changed it too quickly due to his own...what do you want to call it? Stubbornness? Arrogance? Misplaced faith in his own coaches? In the fans eyes, Moyes to United was exactly what Martinez was to parts of our fans...a smaller manager coming from a smaller club incapable of managing at the level required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted May 13, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 Because Moyes inherited a ruined Utd side, Van Gal has spent 250 mil and they are still shite. I'm not arguing that Martinez breathed fresh life into that squad, he gave them belief but it took him a couple of seasons to stamp his mark on them. The first season the defence was disciplined and well drilled, it had been forged over years no one can walk in and undo that type of thing immediately but slowly but surely bit by bit, piece by piece he unravelled it. That first season was a combination of Martinez belief and optimism l/attacking play and Moyes disciplined tough fighting super fit team. Said it all along, merge Moyes and Martinez and you would have the next Alex Ferguson. This is truth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 Moyes did at United what Martinez did here. Went into a good steady set up and chopped n changed it too quickly due to his own...what do you want to call it? Stubbornness? Arrogance? Misplaced faith in his own coaches? In the fans eyes, Moyes to United was exactly what Martinez was to parts of our fans...a smaller manager coming from a smaller club incapable of managing at the level required. He never got close to 3 seasons or half as much a chance as Martinez did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 Said it all along, merge Moyes and Martinez and you would have the next Alex Ferguson. That's the debate over. Can't say any better than that. Bang on. Absolutely bang on. Is there one of these merged people available?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted May 13, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 Moyes did at United what Martinez did here. Went into a good steady set up and chopped n changed it too quickly due to his own...what do you want to call it? Stubbornness? Arrogance? Misplaced faith in his own coaches? In the fans eyes, Moyes to United was exactly what Martinez was to parts of our fans...a smaller manager coming from a smaller club incapable of managing at the level required. Moyes was on a lose lose from the get go. The ego's had him marked from day one. You should read Ferdinands book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 He never got close to 3 seasons or half as much a chance as Martinez did. Length of total time in the job is irrelevant to how they approached their first season. They both approached it the same way. Moyes got rid of championship winning coaches against the advice of SAF. He should have kept those guys and allowed himself that steady experience to help him out for the first year or so. They are both too pig headed for their own good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 Moyes was on a lose lose from the get go. The ego's had him marked from day one. You should read Ferdinands book. This is also true, he wasn't deemed "big" enough by the United faithful so was always pissing in the wind. He had 21 years of winning trophies to match in 18 months with a shit aging side and the golden age had gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 Length of total time in the job is irrelevant to how they approached their first season. They both approached it the same way. Moyes got rid of championship winning coaches against the advice of SAF. He should have kept those guys and allowed himself that steady experience to help him out for the first year or so. They are both too pig headed for their own good. Also can't argue with that, his biggest mistake was getting rid of that backroom staff who knew the club and how it operated inside ou. He was the architect of his own downfall in that respect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 Moyes was on a lose lose from the get go. The ego's had him marked from day one. You should read Ferdinands book. Yeah I know he was. So was Martinez. And they both lost. Lost games. Lost their jobs. They both have levels. Moyes has proved to be higher than Martinez but not as high as he thinks...and same for Martinez. They both looked to take the next step up and both failed. Good luck to them. Buy not at Everton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 This is also true, he wasn't deemed "big" enough by the United faithful so was always pissing in the wind. He had 21 years of winning trophies to match in 18 months with a shit aging side and the golden age had gone. And Martinez was treat the same here!!! I'm not defending Martinez nor attacking Moyes. It's not really about that. It's uncanny how both sets of fans viewed their new manager and how both managers went about it the same way. Moyes didn't get more time simply because the stakes are much higher at United...its all about global markets etc for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 Haven't even put me shorts on yet.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 And Martinez was treat the same here!!! I'm not defending Martinez nor attacking Moyes. It's not really about that. It's uncanny how both sets of fans viewed their new manager and how both managers went about it the same way. Moyes didn't get more time simply because the stakes are much higher at United...its all about global markets etc for them. I disagree with that, there was scepticism initially granted but he got what Everton was about and he was taken in by virtually everyone, most warmed to him he had songs sung and EVERYONE wanted him to succeed. Uniteds snobbery done for Moyes more than his results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 (edited) This is how far the club has fallen... we are comparing two managers who have won fuck all - very passionately... I wonder if Liverpool fans spend time comparing Roy Hodgson to Brendan Rodgers in this way. I'm more bothered about the next manager if I'm honest... if he's shit he can fuck off and do punditry as well. Edited May 13, 2016 by Hafnia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 And Martinez was treat the same here!!! I'm not defending Martinez nor attacking Moyes. It's not really about that. It's uncanny how both sets of fans viewed their new manager and how both managers went about it the same way. Moyes didn't get more time simply because the stakes are much higher at United...its all about global markets etc for them. what are you smoking. they made a FUCKING MURAL FOR THE MAN! yet the club and players didn't take to him? bull shit newts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 what are you smoking. they made a FUCKING MURAL FOR THE MAN! yet the club and players didn't take to him? bull shit newts You mean the "chosen one" that was hung above the Stretford end for most of the season? Next week we debate mark hottinger and John okane in the "who was the better fullback who won fuck all" MikeO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 You mean the "chosen one" that was hung above the Stretford end for most of the season? Next week we debate mark hottinger and John okane in the "who was the better fullback who won fuck all" Think he means Martinez on the main stand. Still gives me red mist that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 what are you smoking. they made a FUCKING MURAL FOR THE MAN! yet the club and players didn't take to him? bull shit newts What am I smoking? You can't even do 'math' you clown!!! I'm talking about when they first joined their new clubs. Didn't the mural come after the first season? I'm also talking about fans taking to them in the beginning...what you making reference to the club and players for?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 Think he means Martinez on the main stand. Still gives me red mist that. Yeah think so. But was that ready for the 2nd season after he was given a new contract for the first season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 We are a club in danger of celebrating mediocrity... actually not in danger, We do it. Shit like giving a manager a 5 year deal after one season and cringe worthy shit, celebrating players who do ok jobs. Time to get expectations set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 This is how far the club has fallen... we are comparing two managers who have won fuck all - very passionately... I wonder if Liverpool fans spend time comparing Roy Hodgson to Brendan Rodgers in this way. I'm more bothered about the next manager if I'm honest... if he's shit he can fuck off and do punditry as well. Fuck all else to talk about just now Haf. Unless we go over to the Lukaku thread....uh oh!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 It's like I was never away ?? Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 We are a club in danger of celebrating mediocrity... actually not in danger, We do it. Shit like giving a manager a 5 year deal after one season and cringe worthy shit, celebrating players who do ok jobs. Time to get expectations set. It kind of comes with the territory of winning 1 cup in 30 odd years. Can't celebrate cups and league wins, can we?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 It's like I was never away ?? You brought it back with you! I'm saying/typing stuff very light hearted and calm by the way gents, so don't be getting all angry and upset because you read something in the wrong manner. All is good. Just different views on 2 failures at a failing club with a miserable fan base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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