Blue Bill's shiny new stadium at the docks...

[Matt]

Nice concept though I wouldn't like to be on top!

[markjazzbassist]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/06/01/could-suprastadio-put-chelsea-liverpool-and-tottenham-to-shame-w/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

 

 

 

from the old lady to super modern! i love the concept.

[EFC-Paul]

Nice concept though I wouldn't like to be on top!

Me neither it looks a tad steep! Nice design though I think if the top tier was glassed and used as a corporate area it would work and look better

[mcirony]

We don't even own Finch Farm.

Exactly. Can you imagine how much more we'd have to pay for the land with planning permission?! Stadium aside, I do think Moshiri should buy FF anyway...just cos.

[Makis]

The current deal looks so good that the money is probably better used elsewhere than buying FF.

[StevO]

Love the look of that stadium. Maybe be the first with this like we were with GP all those years ago.

[Guest John Burns]

 

from the old lady to super modern! i love the concept.

 

 

The upper tiers will be overhanging the lower tiers.

Some designers have come up with an idea to put fans on the roofs of stands at Man U looking at screens - an overflow. They get the atmosphere of the fans below. Also to hang on cables over the pitch a soft material that keeps the sound in enhancing atmosphere. Sort of what they did in the Albert Hall.

Edited June 2, 2016 by John Burns

[Guest John Burns]

We don't even own Finch Farm.

Everton have the right to buy every 5 years.

[Guest John Burns]

Haha.

 

Just researching a bit on the back of that and found out something I'd never known before, don't know how it passed me by. Liverpool were originally called "Everton F.C. and Athletic Grounds Ltd" (Everton Athletic for short); so they truly are our bastard children, not just groundwise .

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Houlding

The company registration number of "Everton F.C. and Athletic Grounds Ltd" is exactly the same number as "Liverpool F.C. and Athletic Grounds Ltd". The said that Houlding cannot use the name Everton so changed the name of the company. Same company just a name change. A Swedish LFC fan did the research. On the web somewhere with photos of the documents. Edited June 2, 2016 by John Burns

[Guest John Burns]

Only if I get to wear the fat controlers hat

Try hard and you can.

[Guest John Burns]

 

You seriously think people would start pubs there based on about 30 days of business per year? There's fuck all else there, so the rest of the year they'd have practically no customers.

 

The 'pubs' would be inside the stadium complex. EFC get the profit not some brewing corporation.

 

It doesn't run to Huntscross you have to change at Sandhills. Do you think they'll change the whole rail network to suit Everton? Don't be so stupid.

 

Yes lets pick a place that'll cost tens of millions more because it's in the middle of nowhere when we could build one in the docks where it's right in the middle of everywhere.

 

You're a troll this will be the last time I respond to your drivel.

 

Beat it.

Again for you...it was quite clear....

 

Number 1. The [physical] line from Kirkby does run to Hunts Cross. The current service does not. A Kirkby to Hunts Cross train is just scheduling services.

Number 2. I can't believe anyone would write that. LOL. If a new stadium was built at Finch Farm refreshment outlets would be built. Duh!

 

Mass-transit trains can reach Finch Farm easily from anywhere in the Liverpool City Region. The site has two high capacity rail lines on two sides and an Mway on the other.

 

Below: The new Citi Field stadium in New York. Yes this is regeneration - sure it is!. Large stadia kill areas.

 

 

 

This what Liverpool have done to the South Docks. An Arena and an Exhibition Centre that looks like B&Q. They killed the place dead.

 

Luddites opposed progress. Destroying a world heritage site is change not progress. It is retrograde. Change for the worse. The south end docks have seen what I would describe as Chav developments, they enhance the city not one bit. Look at this... Like a nuclear power station. Built on the south docks. Quite sad.....

 

This is what Hamburg have done to their redundant dock quays. A world away from the cheap and nasty dross in Liverpool..

 

A stadium is no guarantee whatsoever of drawing in investment as Citi Field shows us.

Here is Middlesbrough who built a dockside stadium about 20 years ago and it has done nothing at all to regenerate anything. Quite bare around there. The same with Sunderland's dockside stadium.

 

 

Everton's academy at Finch Farm below, click the picture to enlarge. That is far from desolate. The site is bordered by two rail lines, the M57 motorway and the city. The M56 is off to the top right off picture, an airport just off shot and major trunk roads about. Lots of housing and industry nearby. A new Mersey bridge is being built not far off. Nothing to regenerate. A superb site for a stadium. Take them in and out via fast Merseyrail trains....and maybe the Manchester and Warrington trains. Ideal. The best.

Edited June 2, 2016 by John Burns

[johnh]

If you are in the upper tiers is a parachute mandatory under health & safety?

[Guest John Burns]

Echo website infers that Stonebridge Cross and Docklands are the front runners.

Those with common sense, influence and power are yet to enter. Central Docks are a world heritage site. The obstacles are many, from UNESCO, English Heritage, politicians, etc, etc. We may lose the heritage site status making the city a laughing stock - 'City of Chav Culture', I can see the headlines now. The world heritage status has been in the 'in danger' list under Anderson's watch.

 

Anderson is playing to the gallery knowing it is an outside shot at Central Docks. He wants popularity because he has ambitions of being the metro mayor of the Liverpool City Region. Luciana Berger will most prob get that because she can speak properly, does not slur her words, articulate and she is much better looking than Joe.

 

If you are in the upper tiers is a parachute mandatory under health & safety?

I would think so.

Edited June 2, 2016 by John Burns

[Guest John Burns]

A graphic reminder of how transport is important in modern stadia.

• Everton were turned down at Kirkby because of poor transport provision.
• Darlington built a 25,000 seater stadium, but the police restricted it to 10,000 as the roads around can't cope.

[Lowensda]

 

A graphic reminder of how transport is important in modern stadia.

• Everton were turned down at Kirkby because of poor transport provision.
• Darlington built a 25,000 seater stadium, but the police restricted it to 10,000 as the roads around can't cope.

 

 

1) Thank god.

2) It's Darlington.

 

But I get your point.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

A graphic reminder of how transport is important in modern stadia.

• Everton were turned down at Kirkby because of poor transport provision.
• Darlington built a 25,000 seater stadium, but the police restricted it to 10,000 as the roads around can't cope.

It had fuck all to do with transport provision , we were turned down by John Denham because it contravened government shopping policy designed to stop major chains luring business away from towns and cities

 

 

[Lowensda]

The 'pubs' would be inside the stadium complex. EFC get the profit not some brewing corporation.

 

Again for you...it was quite clear....

 

Number 1. The [physical] line from Kirkby does run to Hunts Cross. The current service does not. A Kirkby to Hunts Cross train is just scheduling services.

Number 2. I can't believe anyone would write that. LOL. If a new stadium was built at Finch Farm refreshment outlets would be built. Duh!

 

Mass-transit trains can reach Finch Farm easily from anywhere in the Liverpool City Region. The site has two high capacity rail lines on two sides and an Mway on the other.

 

Below: The new Citi Fields stadium in New York. Yes this is regeneration. Large stadia kill areas.

 

 

 

This what Liverpool have done to the South Docks. An Arena and an Exhibition Centre that looks like B&Q. They killed the place dead.

 

Luddites opposed progress. Destroying a world heritage site is change not progress. It is retrograde. Change for the worse. The south end docks have seen what I would describe as Chav developments, they enhance the city not one bit. Look at this... Like a nuclear power station. Built on the south docks. Quite sad.....

 

This is what Hamburg have done to their redundant dock quays...

 

A stadium is no guarantee whatsoever of drawing in investment as Citi Fields shows us.

Here is Middlesbrough who built a dockside stadium about 20 years ago and it has done nothing at all to regenerate anything. Quite bare around there....

 

 

Everton's academy at Finch Farm below, click the picture to enlarge. That is far from desolate. The site is bordered by two rail lines, the M57 motorway and the city. The M56 is off to the top right off picture, an airport just off shot and major trunk roads about. Lots of housing and industry nearby. A new Mersey bridge is being built not far off. Nothing to regenerate. A superb site for a stadium. Take them in and out via fast Merseyrail trains....and maybe the Manchester and Warrington trains. Ideal. The best.

 

This is a much better post to highlight the issues stadia can cause when located in the wrong area of a city.

[Makis]

It had fuck all to do with transport provision , we were turned down by John Denham because it contravened government shopping policy designed to stop major chains luring business away from towns and cities

 

 

Yep.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/e/everton/8379839.stm

 

 

 

But, following a public inquiry earlier this year, Denham has decided that the move would breach shopping policy which discourages major supermarket chains from taking business away from town and city centres.

[Guest John Burns]

If you had read the Kirkby rejection you will find that transport was a major issue on rejection. I am sure by now you have realised I did read it, as you know I would.

 

BTW,

Joe Anderson has blocked me from looking at his twitter account. I made one comment, this..

@joe4metromayor Those docks are a World Heritage site. Massive concrete stadia used 25 days per ann. kill such places. Build at Finch Farm

Joe has been reading the Echo comments as well. He knows he is going to lose in this one as a WHS is a touchy thing. He is on a popularity campaign - self promotion to footy fans and pensioners.

 

My response to Greg O'Keeffe....

 

@Greg O'Keeffe
"The Central Docks world heritage site is reserved for development reflecting Liverpool's maritime heritage and to the largest migration in history - populating the New World. More departed from Liverpool than any other port, predominantly the Central Docks. Whether they are currently empty does not dissolve those facts. They are empty because of the current depression from 2008. The depression will recede.

The conductor of the Philharmonic Hall suggested a joint Opera/Philharmonic Hall. The Phil Hall currently cannot cope with the demands of it. We need to raise the cultural levels of the city to a world renowned status, with world renowned architecture and not pander to beer and burger football on heritage assets. Football is great but on the right site, and Central Docks is not one of them.

Common sense has to prevail. Everton can go to Finch Farm."

 

@Greg O'Keeffe

The Central Docks world heritage site is reserved for development reflecting Liverpool's maritime heritage and to the largest migration in history - populating the New World. More left from Liverpool than any other port, predominantly the Central Docks. Whether they are currently empty does not dissolve those facts. They are empty because of the current depression from 2008. The depression will recede.

The conductor of the Philharmonic Hall suggested a joint Opera/Philharmonic Hall. The Phil Hall currently cannot cope with the demands of it. We need to raise the cultural levels of the city to a world renowned status, with world renowned architecture and not pander to beer and burger football on heritage assets. Football is great but on the right site, and Central Docks is not one of them.

Common sense has to prevail. Everton can go to Finch Farm.

Edited June 2, 2016 by John Burns

[Guest John Burns]

A graphic reminder of putting a stadium in the wrong location. Darlington were forbidden from allowing any more than 10,000 fans into their 25,000-seater arena due to poor road links nearby. The poor access deterred fans and pushed Darlington into an abyss.

 

[Guest John Burns]

http://interpol-studios.com/#!/architecture/start/draft_suprastadium_2012

[Lowensda]

10,000 for Darlington would be a good crowd.

 

That's probably what actually killed it. Having a Stadium similar in size to Selhurst Park or Craven Cottage, without the fan base to fill it.

 

Average League attendance at the stadium declined from over 5,000 in its opening season to 2,744 in 2009–10. Highest recorded attendance was 11,200 (opening game).

 

Probably a bad example really. A Premier League club of our size would fill a 40k seater stadium, every time.

Edited June 2, 2016 by Lowensda

[Guest John Burns]

Probably a bad example really. A Premier League club of our size would fill a 40k seater stadium, every time.

The example is excellent: poor planning and transport provision. That is clear. If Darlington had taken off as a club they could not fill their stadium and generate revenue.

 

The planning people are now wise to this and rightly turned down Everton at Kirkby

Edited June 2, 2016 by John Burns

[Lowensda]

The planning people are now wise to this and rightly turned down Everton at Kirkby

 

 

It had fuck all to do with transport provision , we were turned down by John Denham because it contravened government shopping policy designed to stop major chains luring business away from towns and cities

Edited June 2, 2016 by Lowensda

[Lowensda]

The example is excellent: poor planning and transport provision. That is clear. If Darlington had taken off as a club they could not fill their stadium and generate revenue.

 

The planning people are now wise to this and rightly turned down Everton at Kirkby

 

They may have survived if they'd magically increased their fan base by 120% before the opening of their new stadia.

[Guest John Burns]

You still never got the point. They built a stadium, that costed, that could not be used to its full revenue generating potential. How the team or club performed as a business after is totally irrelevant.

 

And transport provision was a point of rejection of Kirkby. I read the document.

Edited June 2, 2016 by John Burns

[Matt]

The 'pubs' would be inside the stadium complex. EFC get the profit not some brewing corporation.

 

Again for you...it was quite clear....

 

Number 1. The [physical] line from Kirkby does run to Hunts Cross. The current service does not. A Kirkby to Hunts Cross train is just scheduling services.

Number 2. I can't believe anyone would write that. LOL. If a new stadium was built at Finch Farm refreshment outlets would be built. Duh!

 

Mass-transit trains can reach Finch Farm easily from anywhere in the Liverpool City Region. The site has two high capacity rail lines on two sides and an Mway on the other.

 

Below: The new Citi Field stadium in New York. Yes this is regeneration - sure it is!. Large stadia kill areas.

 

 

 

This what Liverpool have done to the South Docks. An Arena and an Exhibition Centre that looks like B&Q. They killed the place dead.

 

Luddites opposed progress. Destroying a world heritage site is change not progress. It is retrograde. Change for the worse. The south end docks have seen what I would describe as Chav developments, they enhance the city not one bit. Look at this... Like a nuclear power station. Built on the south docks. Quite sad.....

 

This is what Hamburg have done to their redundant dock quays. A world away from the cheap and nasty dross in Liverpool..

 

A stadium is no guarantee whatsoever of drawing in investment as Citi Field shows us.

Here is Middlesbrough who built a dockside stadium about 20 years ago and it has done nothing at all to regenerate anything. Quite bare around there. The same with Sunderland's dockside stadium.

 

 

Everton's academy at Finch Farm below, click the picture to enlarge. That is far from desolate. The site is bordered by two rail lines, the M57 motorway and the city. The M56 is off to the top right off picture, an airport just off shot and major trunk roads about. Lots of housing and industry nearby. A new Mersey bridge is being built not far off. Nothing to regenerate. A superb site for a stadium. Take them in and out via fast Merseyrail trains....and maybe the Manchester and Warrington trains. Ideal. The best.

Why would the pubs be inside the stadium complex? Thats not the case over here at Bern, Zurich, Geneva or Lausanne (the city based stadia I've visited in Switzerland). Sure, there are some inside, but there are a lot of pubs and restaurants in the surrounding areas as well as "merchants" (for want of a better phrase) who turn up in food trucks etc. that thrive on the stadium activity

 

As for your select examples, all it shows is that it's not a guarantee and that location is key. The 'Boro one isn't a valid comparison; they stuck it in the middle of nowhere hoping the area would prosper around it. Liverpool as a city and its waterfront are already established and far more developed that Middlesborough. As for the New York example, Liverpool isn't a 19m people strong city with the same kind of demographic, political and financial issues.

 

Finch Farm is in the middle of nowhere (same reason I'm not keen on the Stonebridge location), no amount of trains or transit links is going to make that an attractive offer. If we move, it needs to be near the city centre - afterall, football is also an important part of Liverpools history too.

 

I await the inevitable insults...

Edited June 2, 2016 by Matt

[Guest John Burns]

If you want me to insult your intelligence I can - which I am not impressed with to be frank. What do you want?

 

A stadium at Finch Farm can have all 'refreshments' in the complex. That is simple to understand.

 

You didn't get much at. The 'Boro example is a very valid comparison. As is Sunderland. A stadium on redundant docks hoping the area would prosper around it, which Anderson is proposing. The New York example is a glaring example that a stadium is no guarantee of regeneration. It is a slum around the Citi Field stadium. Anderson is saying a stadium has magical regeneration qualities, and gold dust will be blown up out of the stadium 24/7/365 and fall on the surrounding districts and make them all rich. Sure Joe. Sure. It is best not suck all that nonsense in and do some research - but I did it for you.

 

Everton's academy at Finch Farm is not in the middle of nowhere at all, look at the picture. I doubt you have ever been near to the place. The site is bordered by two rail lines, the M57 motorway and the city. The M56 is off to the top right off picture, an airport just off shot and major trunk roads about. Lots of housing and industry nearby. A new Mersey bridge is being built not far off. Nothing to regenerate. A superb site for a stadium. Take them in and out via fast Merseyrail trains....and maybe the Manchester and Warrington trains. Ideal. The best.

Edited June 2, 2016 by John Burns

[Makis]

Jesus H. Christ. You really do only care about transport do you? In a not completely healthy way. You "prove" Finch Farm is not in the middle of nowhere by pointing out there are transport links near by.

 

As for you not getting the difference between local pubs and restaurants inside the stadium, well, I'm not surprised.

[Matt]

If you want me to insult your intelligence I can - which I am not impressed with to be frank. What do you want?

 

A stadium at Finch Farm can have all 'refreshments' in the complex. That is simple to understand.

 

You didn't get much at. The 'Boro example is very valid comparison. A stadium on redundant docks hoping the area would prosper around it, which Anderson is proposing. The New York example is a glaring example that a stadium is no guarantee of regeneration. It is a slum around the Citi Field stadium. Anderson is saying a stadium has magical regeneration qualities, and gold dust will be blown up out of the stadium 24/7/365 and fall on the surrounding districts and make them all rich. Sure Joe. Sure. It is best not suck all that nonsense in and do some research - but I did it for you.

 

Everton's academy at Finch Farm is not in the middle of nowhere at all, look at the picture. I doubt you have ever been near to the place. The site is bordered by two rail lines, the M57 motorway and the city. The M56 is off to the top right off picture, an airport just off shot and major trunk roads about. Lots of housing and industry nearby. A new Mersey bridge is being built not far off. Nothing to regenerate. A superb site for a stadium. Take them in and out via fast Merseyrail trains....and maybe the Manchester and Warrington trains. Ideal. The best.

I didn't want you to insult my intelligence, I just assumed you would. I would apologise but seems my assumptions were justified. My lack of surprise is overwhelming...

 

As for FF, I've been there a few times in the hopes I'd meet some of the players when I've been home, so lay your doubts aside Also, I have looked at the picture, and remember the surrounding area, and I stand by my statement - it's in the middle of nowhere.

 

Refreshments can be both in and outside of the complex, meaning that EFC can profit from them as well as local landlords and restaurants. It can and does work in many stadia around the world. The 2 examples you're assuring me are compatible, simply aren't in my view. Comparing an isolated stadium in a poorer city with a lot less tourism isn't a comparison, just like comparing one of the worlds biggest city's isn't. I chose the likes of Zurich, Lausanne, Geneve and Bern specifically because they all have a history to them, have varying degrees of sporting calibre and are relatively similar in terms of population and demographics. Plus, I actually know them well so can make a direct comparison.

 

Nothing to regenerate? No, because there's only really industry and housing around. Didn't you say stadium kill surrounding areas? Well, clearly not the industrial complexes, so that leaves the housing and handful of local businesses. Great idea!

 

I get that FF is an attractive site, I just don't think its a good site. Halewood station, apparently a 25m walk, is the closest station that exists that I can see. I know theres another line available, but neither Everton nor the council are likely to build us our very own station, are they? From what I can see on a quick google, thats anywhere upwards of £15m! Ok, the airport isn't far off, only 15mins by car but no current links directly with public transport. M57, again means cars and coaches. All of this traffic is simply going to create a mass-traffic jam 2 times per game day.

 

Honestly John, you're approach and deterimination to presenting your case is admirable most of the time. But you do need to accept that you're not omnipotent, that people have over views and belittling / insulting your way through a rebuke just makes you look petty which detracts from your position.

Edited June 2, 2016 by Matt