Blue Bill's shiny new stadium at the docks...

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

I think a good compromise would be to get Moshiri to buy Lime Street and build one of those fancy new inverted stadiums. Excellent location right in the city centre with loads of boozers and a shit load of trains for John

 

 

[Guest John Burns]

John I'm not sure how much you know in regards to the DFT the government and various TOCS but there are no plans to run a line to the airport from anywhere it's not even in the pipeline let alone to just accommodate a football stadium

I know. It is a matter to getting together and getting at HMG/DfT, etc

Edited June 2, 2016 by John Burns

[Bill]

I,ve never been so bored on TT before, this is another thread i'm about to put on ignore.

[Hafnia]

What d'ya think of Lukaku John? People have been telling me he's isolated but I think he'd be a perfect location for planting a size 10 Lonsdale trainer

Edited June 2, 2016 by Hafnia

[pete0]

Crazy idea move to Everton Brow and have a stadium over looking the city and only a 15 minute walk from Lime St.

[rubecula]

Another crazy idea lets wait until Anfield is built, then buy it off them, paint it blue and there you are,............ ready made car park for Goodison.

[StevO]

John I'll make two points, both are very valid.

1. The club don't seem to be that arsed about mass transit rail.

2. The club are not considering building on Finch Farm.

 

If either is wrong I'll eat your very next shit, but they aren't. So the only remaining questions I have is how much time have you wasted on this? From getting your Google images, commenting on forums and the Echo website. And lastly, was any of it worthwhile?

[Paddock]

John I'll make two points, both are very valid.

1. The club don't seem to be that arsed about mass transit rail.

2. The club are not considering building on Finch Farm.

 

If either is wrong I'll eat your very next shit, but they aren't. So the only remaining questions I have is how much time have you wasted on this? From getting your Google images, commenting on forums and the Echo website. And lastly, was any of it worthwhile?

I'll eat your very next shit

 

I may borrow that, it's a belter

[Guest John Burns]

1. The club don't seem to be that arsed about mass transit rail.

2. The club are not considering building on Finch Farm.

1. They are, as Kirkby was a wake up call.
2. They are.

Do not suck in all that vote canvassing Joe Anderson says. Understand how these thing work to maximise revenues and wise up. And stop making things up.

Edited June 3, 2016 by John Burns

[Guest John Burns]

That track would probably cost at least 10 million per mile plus the stations.

You made that up.

[Makis]

Nope, there was recently a local suggestion for building a 14 kilometer long track, no intersections, no connecting to existing tracks. Estimated cost 140 million euros.

 

And Everton will NEVER build their stadium in Finch Farm.

[Newty82]

John Burns...genuine questions here...Some Halewood residents objected to the building of Finch Farm as it is on Greenbelt land.

 

Do you think they'll happily have a new stadium built there? Along with an active train service? And all the extra noise, pollution, mess etc that 50k people will bring to what looks like quite a peaceful area?

 

You seem to put a value on heritage but no value on Greenbelt land? Why is it more important to build on Greenbelt land than it is to build on derelict concrete jungles?

 

A part I don't understand about your argument here, correct me if I'm wrong, you say building a stadium at the docks won't do anything for the area, so what will building a stadium at Finch Farm do for the area? I sense a contradictory argument there.

 

Also, I live in what many class as the 'middle of nowhere'. A small town on the coast of Cumbria, population of 6-7k. I looked on Google maps and took screens shots. My town fits in the area outlined by Lower Road, Higher Road and Baileys Lane. And then, just like Finch Farm, we are surrounded by miles upon miles of fields. I live in the middle of nowhere, no doubt about it.

 

I was ok about using Finch Farm at first. Just because it would be great to have everything together. But realistically, is it really worth the extra hassle and grief? Not to mention extra costs of funding an inactive train line and building a new line and stations too?

 

This is obviously your area of expertise. Can you give us an idea of costings for new lines, stations, funding, how much funding would be needed for maintenance costs of the lines etc etc? Who owns the land? How much would it cost to purchase?

[Guest John Burns]

Nope, there was recently a local suggestion for building a 14 kilometer long track, no intersections, no connecting to existing tracks. Estimated cost 140 million euros.

What track? Where? When?

Track over to the airport via Finch Farm will be mainly over open land, the cheapest you can have.

[Paddock]

Sighs

[Matt]

What track? Where? When?

Track over to the airport via Finch Farm will be mainly over open land, the cheapest you can have.

and in this "hypothetical" scenario, how much does it cost to lay track of open countryside, how much does it cost (station is around £20m each) who pays for the work for the track and stations? Edited June 3, 2016 by Matt

[Guest John Burns]

 

John Burns...genuine questions here...

Greenbelt? Greenbelts were extensively introduced in the 1950s and intended to be narrow and primarily used for recreation by the inhabitants of the towns and cities they surrounded. The belts were expanded in width, but continued to be used for farming. The shire counties used greenbelts to hold back the disliked populations of nearby towns and cities. Recreational uses disappeared and the greenbelts became green barriers to keep large numbers of urban inhabitants from mixing with a very small number of rural residents. Often these greenbelts are not even green, containing industry and intensive industrial agriculture - as between Liverpool and Widnes. Instead of being a sports jacket for the urban dwellers geenbelts became a straight jacket. Greenbelts achieve nothing. The sooner they are abandoned the better.

 

A branch off the Liverpool-Manchester line south to the airport via a stadium can be built nowhere near the residents of Halewood. Look at the maps I gave. A branch can be anywhere from Halewood station to the M57 Mway. The people of Halewood would welcome Halewood station being on Merseyrail giving superb access to the rest of the city region. A line from the airport could run right up to Southport forming a full south to north Crossrail. Get on the train at the airport, or any station along the line, and to are in reach, without a change, of all the south, centre and north of Liverpool and the towns to the north. Superb. The city gains big time as does EFC as EFC have easy access as well. Hit the link on my sig.

 

Heritage land is internationally recognised and important to the 'world', hence World Heritage Site. You value open land similar to land of world importance. UNESCO (the UN) think differently.

 

A stadium at Finch Farm will give jobs for those in Speke and Halewood, not forgetting Hough Green and connect Halewood, Speke, Hale Village and the airport to the Merseyrail metro if a line is run in - which is daft to to. It can also take away fans directly into the stadium by rail and road from an Mway, and right back out. No one wants marauding Chelsea fans around the city. Also it will ensure Everton, remember them, will maximise attendances which maximises revenue able to compete with the best. A hell of a lot of positives there.

There is less hassle and grief at Finch Farm as it is open land. The extra costs of funding a rail line to the airport can be met by many bodies as many will benefit. The city urgently needs a station at the airport connected to all major North West/North Wales towns and cities. The city gains big times as well. The city, remember that? The economy will improve. We all gain.

 

The costings for new lines varies of course. HS2 was considered cheap as it is mainly over open land. The disused Great Central Railway was considered for high-speed rail and is straight but 14 miles has been built on in urban areas so reinstating is expensive. This line to the airport via a stadium will be pretty cheap as it is over open land and as I pointed out the cost will be carried by many. Whatever the cost as the airport, Hale, Speke, EFC and Halewood gain it will be excellent value for money. The line will attract industry as well, promoting jobs - another plus point. If it is easy to get to, they set up.

 

The mayor will not push Finch Farm is it is just outside the city. A future metro mayor would and Joe wants to be metro mayor. A metro mayor is over all the towns and cities in the metro area, as Khan is in London.

Edited June 3, 2016 by John Burns

[Paddock]

He's just copy pasting stuff off the internet, it's not even his own words.

 

I'm defo done here this is absolutely ridiculous that we're even responding to him ???

[Newty82]

He's just copy pasting stuff off the internet, it's not even his own words.

 

I'm defo done here this is absolutely ridiculous that we're even responding to him ???

I did get a feeling that was happening with the iratic font sizes etc!!!

[Makis]

What track? Where? When?

Track over to the airport via Finch Farm will be mainly over open land, the cheapest you can have.

It's open land here too.

 

But what you are saying is, you have no clue about the cost but decided to still tell me I'm wrong?

[JoeQuince]

Why did I open this thread hoping to find promise, yet knowing I would only find a madman's ramblings?

[Guest John Burns]

It's open land here too.

 

But what you are saying is, you have no clue about the cost but decided to still tell me I'm wrong?

You were wrong on many points for sure. I clarified it all for you. Thanks would be nice. The city has been wanting a station at the airport for a long time. The volumes of people using stations at the: airport, Hale, Speke, a stadium and Halewood, is enough to get DfT funding for that branch and incorporating into Merseyrail.

 

Man City have expanded from 48,000 to 55,000 and fill the place. They have planning permission to expand to 61,000 making the stadium the second largest football ground in the UK - 1 and 2 in Manchester. Everton need a 65,000 seater for sure, as Everton are better supported club. Easy transport access ensures maximum take up. See Arsenal. So, let us say Everton have an average of 60,000 for 25 games. That is 1.5 million per ann. Say half go by rail, that is 750,000 but having two trips, there and back,which takes it to 1.5 million, which is over an average of 4,000 per day per ann for EFC alone. Then Halewood, Speke, Hale and the airport on top. The line is then viable. Then the airport expands in time and industry and domestic homes are attracted to the area. Then even more. Then any summer concerts, internationals, rugby finals, etc, at the stadium. Looking good.

 

The airport and EFC may be required to contribute to the costs of a high capacity station. Arsenal were to contribute to the cost of expanding Holloway Rd station, but so far have paid nothing.

Edited June 3, 2016 by John Burns

[Guest John Burns]

Why did I open this thread hoping to find promise,

You found promise.

 

yet knowing I would only find a madman's ramblings?

 

I have tried to ingrain some sanity in them for you. Not easy you know.

[Matt]

and in this "hypothetical" scenario, how much does it cost to lay track of open countryside, how much does it cost (station is around £20m each) who pays for the work for the track and stations?

maybe you missed my questions? Edited June 3, 2016 by Matt

[StevO]

 

1. They are, as Kirkby was a wake up call.
2. They are.

Do not suck in all that vote canvassing Joe Anderson says. Understand how these thing work to maximise revenues and wise up. And stop making things up.

 

 

1. The very fact they are looking at these two site shows they care little for your mass transit rail. Kirkby was not a wake up call at all, Kirkby was Bill being led down the garden path by Tesco.

2. So you are telling me the club are considering building on Finch Farm? Please where did you get this information, as the information in the public domain states clearly there are only two sites, and we know where they both are. Also, I'm not making anything up.

[StevO]

 

 

 

 

A stadium at Finch Farm will give jobs for those in Speke and Halewood, not forgetting Hough Green and connect Halewood, Speke, Hale Village and the airport to the Merseyrail metro if a line is run in - which is daft to to. It can also take away fans directly into the stadium by rail and road from an Mway, and right back out. No one wants marauding Chelsea fans around the city. Also it will ensure Everton, remember them, will maximise attendances which maximises revenue able to compete with the best. A hell of a lot of positives there.

 

 

 

Actually, we do want marauding Chelsea fans around the city, ideally in the city centre. Its good for business to have the away supporters in the city centre before and after games. It keeps the pubs busy, it creates jobs. If we move the stadium further away from the city centre we are making it harder for these away day tourists to spend their money in our city.

how often do we see groups of people outside pubs in town on a match day? Its great, it gives a bit of atmosphere, there is little trouble and they spend money.

Anyone who has been to away games, its no fun driving three hours to a game, watch it for 90 mins then get straight back in the car (or on the train) and go home. Making a day of it is all part of the fun, take this away and the attendances for away clubs would drop as they wouldn't enjoy the trip as much, then costing the club as there wont be as many tickets sold.

Just my view anyway. but I love a city centre away game.

[Makis]

You were wrong on many points for sure. I clarified it all for you. Thanks would be nice. The city has been wanting a station at the airport for a long time. The volumes of people using stations at the: airport, Hale, Speke, a stadium and Halewood, is enough to get DfT funding for that branch and incorporating into Merseyrail.

 

Man City have expanded from 48,000 to 55,000 and fill the place. They are to expand to 61,000 making the stadium the second largest football ground in the UK. Everton need a 65,000 seater for sure, as Everton are better supported club. Easy transport access ensures maximum take up. See Arsenal. So, let us say Everton have an average of 60,000 for 25 games. That is 1.5 million per ann. Say half go by rail, that is 750,000 but having two trips, there and back,which takes it to 1.5 million, which is over an average of 4,000 per day per ann for EFC alone. Then Halewood, Speke, Hale and the airport on top. The line is then viable. Then the airport expands in time and industry and domestic homes are attracted to the area. Then even more. Then any summer concerts, internationals, rugby finals, etc, at the stadium. Looking good.

 

The airport and EFC may be required to contribute to the costs of a high capacity station. Arsenal were to contribute to the cost of expanding Holloway Rd station, but so far have paid nothing.

Funnily enough you first state that stadiums don't regenerate the area. Then you pull up two examples of stadiums that have in fact done that. Plus the idea 60,000 would travel to the middle of nowhere for every game is ludicrous.

 

And "we" are not wrong, you are, so you should be grateful we help you out with things.

[johnh]

John, you state that the cost of the rail line will be shared by 'many' and display this as an advantage. What if one (or several) of the 'many' don't have the funds or would rather spend the funds on something they see as a higher priority?

 

Don't know if this has already been asked, can't be bothered to trawl through the posts, but this 'new stadium concept' which requires less space. Would this fit on the existing Goodison site?

[Lowensda]

John, you state that the cost of the rail line will be shared by 'many' and display this as an advantage. What if one (or several) of the 'many' don't have the funds or would rather spend the funds on something they see as a higher priority?

 

Don't know if this has already been asked, can't be bothered to trawl through the posts, but this 'new stadium concept' which requires less space. Would this fit on the existing Goodison site?

 

Very good question. The issue with that concept (although amazing) is that it WOULDN'T pass safety laws as suggested in the article. A guy from another forum, he and his friend have an architectural background and said that it wouldn't be a viable design. The concourse was a major issue, sighting that due to restrictions from the design, they think you'd only be able to fit one MAJOR concourse at ground floor level and in the process cause chaos for all the fans on any level above this. At present most of the split levels at GP have their own area.

[Matt]

The other question is then, where do we go during the reconstruction?

[Guest John Burns]

2. So you are telling me the club are considering building on Finch Farm? Please where did you get this information, as the information in the public domain states clearly there are only two sites, and we know where they both are. Also, I'm not making anything up.

EFC still have FF in the lens. The rest is Anderson promoting his popularity - aiming for the gallery.