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Well it's one excuse less as to why moyes can't play Barkley, and one way of guaranteeing we will get a decent price for a top talent.

 

Seriously hope it doesn't come to him being sold, can't handle the heartache, buying and selling I can deal with, not everton born bred trained world class talent wearing another shirt.

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Relief from my corner, so glad he committed. Ross will be a full starter next year, and it'll be the year he's asked to make the CM position his own. We forget it is still his first year at full squad level, small introductions would do no harm, he'll get more games come the end of the season, guaranteed and hopefully as i say, he'll be the starter we all hope and wish for him to be.

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I'd like to see him playing somewhere from January, weather it's at Everton or on loan at another club I don't know but he needs to get competetive games. A championship loan would be brilliant for him even if it was like Duffy's and just on a month by month contract meaning we can get him back easily.

 

I think it would really help his game as reserve games just don't provide the same level of preparation for entering the Premiership.

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I'd like to see him playing somewhere from January, weather it's at Everton or on loan at another club I don't know but he needs to get competetive games. A championship loan would be brilliant for him even if it was like Duffy's and just on a month by month contract meaning we can get him back easily.

 

I think it would really help his game as reserve games just don't provide the same level of preparation for entering the Premiership.

 

While I agree its important for youngsters to be getting games (which I think probably hindered Rodwells development) I think Championship level would be too low for Ross. There are plenty of teams scrapping to get out of the relegation places in the Prem that would surely take him on and he will learn a lot more having to really fight and dig in for every point than he will playing for an average or even decent Champ side. You could even argue that Ross should have a decent shout of starting some of our games given the form of some of them!

 

One thing that impresses me about SAF is that he always gets his good youngsters away on loan at a decent club for a season. The likes of Welbeck & Cleverly would have learnt so much last season while not being under the spotlight and they both started this season brilliantly before getting injured.

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While I agree its important for youngsters to be getting games (which I think probably hindered Rodwells development) I think Championship level would be too low for Ross. There are plenty of teams scrapping to get out of the relegation places in the Prem that would surely take him on and he will learn a lot more having to really fight and dig in for every point than he will playing for an average or even decent Champ side. You could even argue that Ross should have a decent shout of starting some of our games given the form of some of them!

 

One thing that impresses me about SAF is that he always gets his good youngsters away on loan at a decent club for a season. The likes of Welbeck & Cleverly would have learnt so much last season while not being under the spotlight and they both started this season brilliantly before getting injured.

Yeah, us if we are careful lol

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I really don't agree with what He say's at the end regardless of age or what stage of development you are at or even a fully fledged world class player can conceed a penalty, those words will do Ross no good to soley point the finger at him for nearly costing us the game.

 

How many times have other players done the same thing or similar and cost us points only to play again week in week out!? He can be very contradicting at times....

 

No anti Moyes sentiment what so ever but the man really does spout some tripe at times and for Me it's a very poor choice of words.

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that says he conceded a penalty in his 3rd appearance...he went on to play 2 more games according to that? i thought he got taken out after that penalty and was never ever ever ever seen again?

 

That he wasn't

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He played against QPR - was man of ther match, played 76 minutes in the carling cup - then against Blackburn he must have given away 4 goals, missed 3 sitters, spat at the referee and called moyes a nasty name because since that game in August he has appeared for a total of 58 minutes in the league...

 

I understand the need to protect youngsters - but in my opinion the lad has probably been given far too much food for though - how can he carry the can for an erratic 5 minutes when he sees seasoned pros make worse mistakes and continue to be selected.

 

In my opinion he slipped of his bike, grazed his hands and Moyesy has locked the bike away

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I too felt he should be given more game time but looking at him in the reserve game yesterday I wasn't so sure. He seemed a bit too non fussed, didn't get involved enough in the game and his movement and positioning wasn't all that great.

 

I think it would really benefit him if we sent him out on loan to the end of the season if possible.

 

With Osman, Rodwell & coleman all coming back his chances of getting game time are slim and are requirement even to fill out the bench isn't really there. I'm sure plenty of decent clubs would be keen to give him game time and he would be able to settle himself in to competitive football well.

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Is he now in a similar state to what Rodwell was? Came into the team, played great - then a little bit of messing around with his confidence has left him a shell of the player he was???

 

Let's be honest - if it can happen to a world class player like Torres it can happen to a kid - I would have just said, "you are playing every week even if you play bad - you are a great player, now get out there"

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Watched Barkley yesterday for the reserves and he was dire!! Looked like he couldn't be arsed to be honest. Think if he was good enough to start at the beginning of the season then he should be good enough to come on as sub since, even if Moyes is sparing him. There have been a fair few games this year when we have totally lacked any flair and he could have been used as an impact sub.

Actually think Moyes was scared by the amount of attention he was getting saw him sold by the end of the season and used the first excuse to pull him out of the limelight.

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Is he now in a similar state to what Rodwell was? Came into the team, played great - then a little bit of messing around with his confidence has left him a shell of the player he was???

 

Let's be honest - if it can happen to a world class player like Torres it can happen to a kid - I would have just said, "you are playing every week even if you play bad - you are a great player, now get out there"

Ah, the time old question of does he need an arm around the shoulder or a kick up the jacksy! I don't think Moyes has the man management needed to make the correct decision. I don't either btw................sad.png

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http://www.liverpool...99623-30789971/

 

I must admit, my opinions on the whole Barkley situation has changed somewhat over the last month or so. I think we all got a little carried away because undoubtedly the lad showed a lot of promise, but how many 18 year olds do you see playing week in-week out for established premier league teams? Rooney being the only one i can think of to date, and lets face it, he isnt as good as Rooney, but he can still be a quality player. We've seen with Gueye that he's starting to show what he is capable of and he is 21. So i for one, will hold my hands up and say how Moyes has managed Barkley was probably for the best.

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I wonder how bad he must have been since running the game against QPR in the prescence of arteta to have missed out whilst the likes of McFadden has had game time, not to mention ossie on the wing, an ineffective Cahill playing behind the striker, Neville in midfield, Magueye Gueye, Anichebe... all I can say is he must have reverted from potential world beater into a sunday league amateur.

 

Maybe they were waiting for his lobotomy to come through to remove the grey matter that was instructing him to pick defense splitting passes and to have the odd shot.

 

Sarcasm over, but i'm sorry, he could and should have warrented more time on the pitch than he has had - he has 9 players around him instructed to keep shape, defend, press etc etc, if it was me I would have said "right, out you go, do your thing, you are going to face obstacles, learnings and some highs and lows but get on with it" "we will work on some elements of your game that need brushing up on but they will come"

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http://www.liverpool...99623-30789971/

 

I must admit, my opinions on the whole Barkley situation has changed somewhat over the last month or so. I think we all got a little carried away because undoubtedly the lad showed a lot of promise, but how many 18 year olds do you see playing week in-week out for established premier league teams? Rooney being the only one i can think of to date, and lets face it, he isnt as good as Rooney, but he can still be a quality player. We've seen with Gueye that he's starting to show what he is capable of and he is 21. So i for one, will hold my hands up and say how Moyes has managed Barkley was probably for the best.

 

I dont think people are saying he should start week in week out. I think the general theme is why have someone who is average at best (McFadden) on the bench and giving him game time when you could be nurturing someone who is probably as good as and have the potential for better.

 

There are plenty of youngsters who have played on a fairly regular basis before they were 20 (fabregas, walcott, Chamberlain, Wilshere, Giggs, Jones, Ferdinand) and I cant help but think we should have been using him as an option ahead of some of the others (especially when they were coming back from injury or out of position).

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I wonder how bad he must have been since running the game against QPR in the prescence of arteta to have missed out whilst the likes of McFadden has had game time, not to mention ossie on the wing, an ineffective Cahill playing behind the striker, Neville in midfield, Magueye Gueye, Anichebe... all I can say is he must have reverted from potential world beater into a sunday league amateur.

 

Do you really think that Moyes is doubting his skill? He's probably just doing the right thing by easing him in gently after seeing what's happened to Rodwell. I'm quite happy he's done it this way, and I'm happy Ross has signed a new contract with the view to doing this. You can't just chuck 17/18 year olds on week in week out, one injury and they're not back up to scratch for a long time. Hope to see him this season with a few sub appearances though, I've not seen a massive amount of him yet.

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Do you really think that Moyes is doubting his skill? He's probably just doing the right thing by easing him in gently after seeing what's happened to Rodwell. I'm quite happy he's done it this way, and I'm happy Ross has signed a new contract with the view to doing this. You can't just chuck 17/18 year olds on week in week out, one injury and they're not back up to scratch for a long time. Hope to see him this season with a few sub appearances though, I've not seen a massive amount of him yet.

I think he's scared of it. Moyes like to give players a 101 instructions which will restrict Barkley. Needs more attacking people in the set up to make the most of Barkley, or at least one of Round or Stubbs to grow a pair and tell Moyes to just let him play.

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I think he's scared of it. Moyes like to give players a 101 instructions which will restrict Barkley. Needs more attacking people in the set up to make the most of Barkley, or at least one of Round or Stubbs to grow a pair and tell Moyes to just let him play.

 

Exactly this - Moyes is the epitomy of paralysis by analysis. Spontaneity is a rarity in our team because everything is "structured"

 

There is no better sight in football than watching a lad in his sub 20's approaching the game like he is playing on the street with his mates - you get that rawness and ability that leaves seasoned old campaigners scratching their heads in bewilderment

 

To coin a phrase of Micky in Rocky 3 - "The worst thing that happened to you, that can happen to any fighter: you got civilized"

 

You don't become a better tennis player by continuing to beat players you are better than, you get better by losing against players who are performing better than you.

 

If Moyes was planning "all along" to use him in April then why did he not send Barkley to somewhere like Reading on Loan with a recall factored in? Instead the lad has been played with fellow 18 year olds, when he had shown himself to be above Arteta in one game this season?! - Not a normal 18 year old is he, so why treat him like one.

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He did well though, I remember Match of the Day doing a feature on him because he impressed the panel.

 

After a few games into the season he was involved in an incident (I don't know the details) in the city centre (at the Odeon) and it may be coincidence, but he was told shortly after he had to play with the reserves/youth team until further notice because he missed out on development during his leg break and people at the club felt he needed time to round-off/mature as a person.

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He did well though, I remember Match of the Day doing a feature on him because he impressed the panel.

 

 

No doubt about that, I was impressed with him too. It just seems strange to play him when we were likely to be pretty shite (we were), and then pull him out after one mistake. Distin won't disappear off the face of the earth for his fuck up last Saturday will he? No, he'll be told to put it behind him by putting in a quality performance this weekend.

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vellios was moved to the reserves because other strikers had games written into their contracts apparently...could it be the case with barkley?

What striker had that, Saha? The clubs a disgrace if they have guarenteed quatas in the contracts. Pretty sure Jags must have got one in his when Heitinga came, only explanation for him not getting dropped for soo long when he was utter dogshit.

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vellios was moved to the reserves because other strikers had games written into their contracts apparently...could it be the case with barkley?

If true, then no wonder we play players who are blatently out of form ahead of promising youngsters and the times Drenthe should have probably started ahead of others, thats a disgrace, shame on the club.

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come on were all a bit too intellegent to believe that arent we?

 

Velious is in the reserves because he is not even close to being a prem player. we have seen that when he gets too long in a match, give him 15 mins and he looks ok, but any longer and it shows he is not ready yet.

 

Drenthe is not bigger than EFC and until he realises this i couldnt care who he goes to. he either does it our way and respects our club or bye bye!

 

Haf,

Gotta ask mate and i dont mean this anything other than just a question.

But is it just frustration at how mediocre we have been for the last 10 years that is inspiring your , what comes accross as utter hatred of moyes? I understand your frustration i really do but is it all moyes fault? is he really that bad or could it be he is at a club that stifles him too.....because of the cash flow?

 

But back on subject i think we really need to be careful with Barkley.....but still i get goosebumps at the thought of him playing part against united.

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come on were all a bit too intellegent to believe that arent we?

 

Velious is in the reserves because he is not even close to being a prem player. we have seen that when he gets too long in a match, give him 15 mins and he looks ok, but any longer and it shows he is not ready yet.

 

Drenthe is not bigger than EFC and until he realises this i couldnt care who he goes to. he either does it our way and respects our club or bye bye!

 

Haf,

Gotta ask mate and i dont mean this anything other than just a question.

But is it just frustration at how mediocre we have been for the last 10 years that is inspiring your , what comes accross as utter hatred of moyes? I understand your frustration i really do but is it all moyes fault? is he really that bad or could it be he is at a club that stifles him too.....because of the cash flow?

 

But back on subject i think we really need to be careful with Barkley.....but still i get goosebumps at the thought of him playing part against united.

Not a good enough excuse. We havent spent big as we secured what we have, he has been backed in the form of wages. We now have a similar wage structure to Spurs, who used to pay double what we did. Now more than the likes of Newcastle.

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Guest blueboy122

intelligent enough maybe...buti'm also not naive enough to believe the idiots in charge of contracts couldn't be possible of it

 

Those idiots in charge of contracts do have form after all!

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come on were all a bit too intellegent to believe that arent we?

 

Velious is in the reserves because he is not even close to being a prem player. we have seen that when he gets too long in a match, give him 15 mins and he looks ok, but any longer and it shows he is not ready yet.

 

Drenthe is not bigger than EFC and until he realises this i couldnt care who he goes to. he either does it our way and respects our club or bye bye!

 

Haf,

Gotta ask mate and i dont mean this anything other than just a question.

But is it just frustration at how mediocre we have been for the last 10 years that is inspiring your , what comes accross as utter hatred of moyes? I understand your frustration i really do but is it all moyes fault? is he really that bad or could it be he is at a club that stifles him too.....because of the cash flow?

 

But back on subject i think we really need to be careful with Barkley.....but still i get goosebumps at the thought of him playing part against united.

Vellios was our top scorer and then was dropped into the reserves and scored a hat trick, find it hard to believe it was down to his ability, he is more prolific than either Straq or Victor and at the time Saha also.

 

with regards to what you are say to haf, i think it's more to do with the fact that Moyes seems more than happy to put up with the money situation at the club, so you can't say the club is stifling him, also in the last few seasons, we have managed to go backwards somewhat, a few seasons we were experiencing a fairly regular spell in Europe(although we never really made a threat, we still competed) but the past few seasons we hav'nt looked anywhere near that, and take Coleman, he was found out pretty quickly and has not really changed any aspect of his game to cope with it, he has gone very backwards and ive heard Moyes may get rid of him in the summer as the club are slightly disapointed with his progress. The big thing for me though is that in 10 years under Moyes, we still don't have a plan B, we only play one tactic, and players have to fit within that tactic or Moyes has no interest in them ala Drenthe, Now even your average sunday league manager has a few different ways of setting his team up, this is what gets me the most, and we all go on about how much players get paid, well the money Moyes is getting paid, he should be mixing the ideas up a bit more imo.

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I know Velious was our top scorer back then but was it more of a supersub or a regular prem striker scoring? in my opinion he was a decent sub to come on and gave us a bit of excitment, but did you watch him from a start? i dont think anyone will disagree when i say he looked average at best.

 

I still dont think he was anywhere near the finished article, not even half way there. I hink moyes brought him back out to let him know there is work to do. Again though just an opinion.

 

I still dont know about Moyes, i think he is happy here but i dont think thats because he is not ambitious, i think its more he wants to leave with a legacy of a trophy and he believes that he can do it here.

 

Give him some cash amd see if he has a plan B. though i look at the football we played at the start and what we have been playing recently and i can see a massive change. i think its more options we need not a plan B.

To me you cannot ask Neville to try to play the passing game, that goes for a lot of our players.

 

Dont forget we have done a good job since xmas ( again ) in trying for europe. would it have been better to just try other things and forget about it for a year? not for me, i would rather try for europe.

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didn't he start against stoke? the biggest backline in the prem? and get it hoofed upto him? drogba would struggle with that

Barely got a touch of the ball, not his fault thou the midfield didnt create anything probs cos they were used to having Saha dropping so deep (Same happened in the Fulham game).

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point taken.

 

But i still dont think hes anywhere near ready.

And its not to say i dont rate him cause i do, i just think he needs more time and thats why he was brought out.

 

If you are right about the contract stuff then i would find it hard to argue anymore haha! that would be a piss take.

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My concerns re moyes is that he is ridiculously stubborn. That's fine if you are perfect - but he isn't. There is a small time mentality that has affected many of the younger fans and he is part of the reason. On merseyside the derby is huge - on far too many occasions he has failed us -massively.

 

I don't care whatever anyone says, we are a giant of a club. The manager gets a great cv for performing "miracles" so do the board. Im full of admiration for the way moyes procures talent, how he uses it leaves me gobsmacked. We have internationals in nearly every position.

 

We will play united like good old subservient everton - because "they have an expensive team" - ill say this. Take Rooney, scholes, Valencia out the mix and the quality ain't much more than what we have. However we will do as we are meant to. Joe royle would have sent a team out there to "get at them" - not Davie, he will hope to sneak one and hold onto it.

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vellios was moved to the reserves because other strikers had games written into their contracts apparently...could it be the case with barkley?

 

Vellios was moved to the reserves for having unauthorised one on one training sessions with Ferguson after training had finished.

It went on for a few weeks when he was getting games, when Ferguson told Moyes how well Vellios had progressed in these session he gave them both down the banks for not informing him what was going on .Vellios hasn't had a look in since.

That came from Duncans mouth.

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Vellios was moved to the reserves for having unauthorised one on one training sessions with Ferguson after training had finished.

It went on for a few weeks when he was getting games, when Ferguson told Moyes how well Vellios had progressed in these session he gave them both down the banks for not informing him what was going on .Vellios hasn't had a look in since.

That came from Duncans mouth.

 

 

That's a joke right?!

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I got it from a relative who knew Duncan from Formby, he moved away but stayed in touch with Duncan ever since.

Vellios was gutted, thought he was doing a good thing, Duncan thought he could help the lad out, teach him a few tricks of the trade.

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I got it from a relative who knew Duncan from Formby, he moved away but stayed in touch with Duncan ever since.

Vellios was gutted, thought he was doing a good thing, Duncan thought he could help the lad out, teach him a few tricks of the trade.

 

Id say he was doing a good thing too. Moyes should've been praising his initiative and willingness to work on his game to make himself better!

 

I'm pissed off now knowing that Moyes would cut off his own nose to spite his own face like that.

 

Now we know why Vellios has completely disappeared; he wanted to improve!

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Id say he was doing a good thing too. Moyes should've been praising his initiative and willingness to work on his game to make himself better!

 

I'm pissed off now knowing that Moyes would cut off his own nose to spite his own face like that.

 

Now we know why Vellios has completely disappeared; he wanted to improve!

This with added swear words, aggression and some confusion/WTF Moyes from me.

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Guest blueboy122

With all due respect thats garbage. Bannished to the reserves because he was taking extra lessons from one of our forward coaches.. Yeah sure.

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i'm inclined to agree too...moyes wants grafters right..so is he really gonna drop someone who works that extra bit harder? he hired ferguson to do a job and he's doin it...i seriously can't imagine him kickin off over that

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