Palfy Posted January 26, 2017 Report Share Posted January 26, 2017 i think Steve wasn't allowed a vote, like meDidn't know that, do you feel that was a good thing or bad or I don't really care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted January 27, 2017 Report Share Posted January 27, 2017 Didn't know that, do you feel that was a good thing or bad or I don't really care. It was a bad thing: arbitrary rules depriving millions of British citizens from voting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted January 27, 2017 Report Share Posted January 27, 2017 to quote my previous post: "doesn't that only even further delegitimize the result because it means both sides didn't know what they were voting for?" That's the problem with the whole vote. Both sides had prominent politicians who were talking rubbish. I have heard a lot of people raise arguments on both sides, pre and post vote, quoting information they believe to be correct when in reality it is a load of rubbish but people believe it because they heard it somewhere and it stuck. For example a lot of the leave voters I know in Portsmouth wanted out on the basis that we could stop immigration. They completely failed to recognise that immigration is a good thing when done properly and it's unlikely that the numbers will change, albeit their country of origin might. Despite being a leaver, I tried to explain this point to many of my family and friends (the Mrs side) but they couldn't grasp it and fell back to their Daily Mail arguments because that is what suits their own agenda (no jobs, can't get a council house, etc etc). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 Free trade agreements and tariffs. Interesting article (London School of Economics) about the importance of harmonising regulatory environment, rather than just talking about tariffs. http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2017/01/30/brexit-and-free-trade-fallacies-part-one/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 I just watched Ken Clarkes' speech in the HoC in full and must say I'm very impressed. Spot on about referenda, UK role in Europe and the future of free trade. Had never heard of him before.. He seems more eloquent, thoughtful and passionate than Cameron and Major combined. Why wasn't he ever the Tory PM? link to speech: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/tory-mp-ken-clarke-tears-9728434?utm_content=buffer2fd73&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 He is the ultimate Europhile in the Tory party. He desperately wanted us to join the euro (and still does) which says it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 He is the ultimate Europhile in the Tory party. He desperately wanted us to join the euro (and still does) which says it all.ive always been 50/50 on joining the Euro. Idealistically it's great, personally it would've made life much easier but it would've been carrying too many others. That said, I want unity so I would've happily have gone with the Euro for the greater good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 Well, the main reason we shouldn't join is that its on borrowed time. We need to invoke Article 50 before it implodes so that we are not on the hook for mega costs. As I have posted before, there is no fiscal union, shared debt or genuine banking union. Even its founding economist Otmar Issing has disowned it. 'One day, the house of cards will collapse,' he said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 If there's no fiscal hook, how are we on the hook for mega costs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 you're right that the euro will be a stronger with much deeper integration. i hope trump, brexit, russian, middle east and other negative forces will force eu to act. tusk speech today was great in that sense. for me personally, as the citizen of a geographically tiny country, the euro has been great. Belgian economy has also benefited greatly. with trump destroying America, it might not take as long as expected for the euro to become the global currency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 I just watched Ken Clarkes' speech in the HoC in full and must say I'm very impressed. Spot on about referenda, UK role in Europe and the future of free trade. Had never heard of him before.. He seems more eloquent, thoughtful and passionate than Cameron and Major combined. Why wasn't he ever the Tory PM? link to speech: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/tory-mp-ken-clarke-tears-9728434?utm_content=buffer2fd73&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer Very good speech, rare I say that about a Tory. holystove 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-38833883 Law applied, MPs vote the go ahead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 Nigel FarageGeverifieerd account@Nigel_Farage Volgen Meer Here is a list of 114 enemies of democracy who should be made to pay the price at the ballot box. http://www.westmonster.com/full-list-of-brexit-blocking-mps2/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/588948/The_United_Kingdoms_exit_from_and_partnership_with_the_EU_Web.pdf In case anyone is bored... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/588948/The_United_Kingdoms_exit_from_and_partnership_with_the_EU_Web.pdf In case anyone is bored... I just finished flipping through it. Its basically the lancaster speech with graphs thrown in. Funny parts: 1. part 8 of the white paper describes how the Single Market has alle the elements of trade the UK wants, but the UK wants to leave it. 2. In order to provide continuity HMG believes the preserved law should continue to be interpreted in the same way as it is at the moment. ... So as interpreted by the evil European Court of Justice , and with an enormous amount of "Brussels red tape". and my personal favorite 3. "Whilst Parliament has remained sovereign throughout our membership of the EU, it has not always felt like that." .. that's right, read that again. Matt and MikeO 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted February 6, 2017 Report Share Posted February 6, 2017 http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-38762034 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted February 6, 2017 Report Share Posted February 6, 2017 http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-38762034 And the point is? The point is that the vote was 'leave' and that is what is going to happen. As the exercise was sponsored by the BBC it can hardly be classed as 'independent'. I also read something, which I wouldn't normally post on here because its from the Telegraph (I don't quote from papers which are biased and am amazed why there are so many quotes on here from the Guardian). This is a comment from a leading Far East economist, so can reasonably by seen as 'independent'. He says: 'Britain is ahead of the curve in understanding shifts in the global economy. The current narrative over Brexit will be overtaken by events as Europe's own woes become clearer and withdrawal from the dysfunctional bloc will ultimately be seen as a shrewd move..............' Yes, 'shrewd' as in common sense, pity the BBC didn't include that in their survey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted February 6, 2017 Report Share Posted February 6, 2017 And the point is? The point is that the vote was 'leave' and that is what is going to happen. As the exercise was sponsored by the BBC it can hardly be classed as 'independent'. I also read something, which I wouldn't normally post on here because its from the Telegraph (I don't quote from papers which are biased and am amazed why there are so many quotes on here from the Guardian). This is a comment from a leading Far East economist, so can reasonably by seen as 'independent'. He says: 'Britain is ahead of the curve in understanding shifts in the global economy. The current narrative over Brexit will be overtaken by events as Europe's own woes become clearer and withdrawal from the dysfunctional bloc will ultimately be seen as a shrewd move..............' Yes, 'shrewd' as in common sense, pity the BBC didn't include that in their survey. Honestly, I thought the same. It's a complete waste of time publishing that and will only towards causing more tension Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted February 6, 2017 Report Share Posted February 6, 2017 And the point is? The point is that the vote was 'leave' and that is what is going to happen. As the exercise was sponsored by the BBC it can hardly be classed as 'independent'. I also read something, which I wouldn't normally post on here because its from the Telegraph (I don't quote from papers which are biased and am amazed why there are so many quotes on here from the Guardian). This is a comment from a leading Far East economist, so can reasonably by seen as 'independent'. He says: 'Britain is ahead of the curve in understanding shifts in the global economy. The current narrative over Brexit will be overtaken by events as Europe's own woes become clearer and withdrawal from the dysfunctional bloc will ultimately be seen as a shrewd move..............' Yes, 'shrewd' as in common sense, pity the BBC didn't include that in their survey. Just because a newspaper leans a certain way doens't mean everything published by it is rubbish. I've read sensible things in The Telegraph, aswell as the Guardian. Not all of The Telegraph articles are as moronic as this one : http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/06/brexit-opportunity-reverse-tragic-decline-marriage-britain/ .. Anyway. I don't think publishing the demographics is a waste of time. For example, May can now think about how she can design Brexit-policy that will specifically appeal to younger voters as the voting figures show that they're the ones that need the most convincing. etc etc The BBC article isn't one-sided; it also includes the views of Brexiteers. Including the statement by Oxford educated Dominic Commings, director of Vote Leave, who believes that educated people overwhelmingly voted Remain because "the better educated people are, the more prone they are to holding irrational political opinions". .. .. So you've found an (anonymous) economist who believes brexit is a good idea.. I agree with him, but not regarding the economy. It is now possible for both of us to post twenty articles from economists who either say Brexit will be postive or negative, (even with the added requirement that they're all from the far-east), but I suggest we don't go down that road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted February 6, 2017 Report Share Posted February 6, 2017 I tried to draw the distinction between 'better educated' and 'common sense'. Most of the people who voted leave had more common sense, which is what matters in the real world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted February 6, 2017 Report Share Posted February 6, 2017 I voted to leave, it was very difficult for me as I have always considered myself European. However the one argument that persuaded me was Tusk, who as far as I am aware was never democratically voted in and will never be democratically voted out. For those who voted to remain, I apologise, but that is my honest feeling on the matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted February 6, 2017 Report Share Posted February 6, 2017 I tried to draw the distinction between 'better educated' and 'common sense'. Most of the people who voted leave had more common sense, which is what matters in the real world. Really? I'd say most of them hadn't a clue how it would effect them or others. All actions since would back that up. Besides, there's nothing common about sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted February 6, 2017 Report Share Posted February 6, 2017 Matt, on 06 Feb 2017 - 08:00, said: http://www.bbc.com/n...litics-38762034 What I learned from this article is that Paddock is an anomaly and "comparatively prosperous". Who knew! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted February 6, 2017 Report Share Posted February 6, 2017 As the remain vote was mainly the educated people of this country, I don't think we needed the BBC to point out that leave was made up of the old racist uneducated with nothing to lose voters, I have always known that was the case. rubecula 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted February 6, 2017 Report Share Posted February 6, 2017 As the remain vote was mainly the educated people of this country, I don't think we needed the BBC to point out that leave was made up of the old racist uneducated with nothing to lose voters, I have always known that was the case. Bit harsh on the many educated and savvy people who voted out, but by and large I agree with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted February 7, 2017 Report Share Posted February 7, 2017 Bit harsh on the many educated and savvy people who voted out, but by and large I agree with you.I agree and it wasn't meant to be aimed at every leave voter, just the old farts that hark on about a time gone by, with the phrase back in my day, then the closest racist who voted out just to close the borders hoping to stop the next foreigners from coming into what they believe should be a white British country, then the twats the sit on their arses all day moaning about how hard done they are, when they've hardly done a day's work in their lives, with their 4-5 kids who are growing up with the same values as their spongeing parents with nothing to lose, but a hope that if they vote out all the people who have worked hard and achieved something in their lives might lose out. I strongly believe that all the people I mentioned are the reason that leave won the vote. I'm clad I voted remain if now only to say I've got no association with any of the above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted February 7, 2017 Report Share Posted February 7, 2017 I voted Leave because FUCK YOU GUYS!!! ;-) yeah! Fuck the 81% who couldn't vote or voted remain! Democracy rules! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted February 7, 2017 Report Share Posted February 7, 2017 Really hope that wasn't the real reason Oh, and Switzerland is definitely richer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted February 7, 2017 Report Share Posted February 7, 2017 Really hope that wasn't the real reason Oh, and Switzerland is definitely richer that's what bank rolling the Nazi's does for you matt. The Swiss are spineless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted February 7, 2017 Report Share Posted February 7, 2017 As the remain vote was mainly the educated people of this country, I don't think we needed the BBC to point out that leave was made up of the old racist uneducated with nothing to lose voters, I have always known that was the case. I voted to leave, I had a University education AND I am not a racist in any way shape or form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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