Bailey

2 hours ago, Shukes said:

Best of luck Tom. Never let us down, always there when called upon. 
But it’s a good decision as you deserve a chance to find first team football.

Hope you smash it wherever you go.

I dunno, I would say he let us down quite a lot!

I hope he goes to a decent club though, think he will do well in the Championship level or in Scotland maybe.

I definitely think he had issues with his overall game prior to his injury but what happened completely took the edge off him, especially physically and mentally. 

12 hours ago, Matt Tiger said:

He's a quality player all around, but more than anything I'm a fan of his steadiness for such a young kid. His composure gives me some comfort that we can withstand the loss of Onana (if he goes, personally I'd rather him stay tho I don't know the financial ramifications) and still look solid in the middle. We've made almost exclusively shit decisions as a club over the past couple years but this is a great find.

His composure and decision making have shone a light on what we have been missing in midfield for a long time. Im struggling to think of someone with his mental attributes since McCarthy and Barry. 

He has good technique too and whilst he isnt anything special physically those other attributes will make up for it. 

I dont think he is the type of player that will suddenly jump forward in respect of his improvement but year after year he will become more polished and more complete.

1 hour ago, Hafnia said:

They weren’t disputed…. Ross walked. 

They were. Sources (Guardian -Andy Hunter) suggested the emails had been tampered with. 

On 21/06/2023 at 08:13, Matt said:

I really didn't want to change, I wanted to be dead in separate 2 periods of my life. It took a seizure from a panic attack to put me in hospital and then I was watched like a hawk. Daily follow ups and sessions for months, then eventually it became "voluntary" because I'd upset my wife so much I forced myself out of guilt, not a desire to improve. It was a slog but I was forced through it (therapy). Insomnia, drink, stress, unreal expectations from work, friends and family... all the little things combine and before you know it there's pills like zolpidem and antidepressants that make things worse than ever to the point I started drinking with the sleeping pills in the hope I wouldn't wake up. 

It got easier when I stopped drinking 2.5 years ago, but there's still a daily fight in my head to not just keep walking into the sea. Sobriety makes it easier to resist but it's still there and my last attempt at therapy (CBT) was a waste of time. Its not a question of not listening, it's not getting the right feedback.

So apologies if I'm a bit defensive over depression, everyone. When I see people quoting "hes got the money, resource, etc", you show that you simply do not understand what depression does and actually means. You may think you do, but chances are you don't. Depression doesn't care about money or fame, it's not respectful of status or skin colour. If it gets its roots in you, it's as stubborn as a weed that keeps coming back despite you pulling it out from the stem. Depression is fucking ruthless and determined. 

Of course having the resources doesnt mean that you cant get depressed, but it does give you a head start over those that dont. Whilst I completely agree depression hits everyone the same, I disagree that having the resource (and therefore opportunity) to have better help doesnt give him more chance than the common man.

On 21/06/2023 at 08:31, Hafnia said:

The change that comes from within doesn’t exist in depression.  Depression sneaks its way in and becomes a part of you.   Part of depressions sneakiness is the ability to make the person who has it “get on with it and deny”.  By the time you notice it - it’s the stage where you feel desperate. 

I’m lucky that I talk about depression, I’ve been open with friends, received counselling, take a low dose of Sertraline to keep me at a level that doesn’t blunt me but takes the edge off. 
 

I couldn’t imagine being in the public eye at a stage in my life where all I wanted to do was stare at the wall next to my bed. 

 

I agree that it can sneak up on you but I disagree that change from within doesnt exist. If it didnt exist, noone would get better. No-one can ever force you to change when you are in that mindset, in my opinion at least. Similar to addiction in some ways. 

That doesnt mean that people dont realise it until its too late though as sadly that is all too common. 

I imagine thar the number of men (in particular) that suffer from symptoms of depression is probably scarily high. 

3 hours ago, Matt said:

I'm sure he has, which clearly didn't help. He could be beyond help, but it's not normal to have a single therapist and get the answers you need. I've had 6 to get through certain events and none so far have given me the perfect answer. They have all given me bits and pieces that I've put together to be ok enough to get through the day most days. 

So long as he doesn't give up then it has to be tried. It's the only reason I'm still here. 

That want to change has to come from within. You wanted to and that is why you kept searching. 

Alli can go and see all the therapists under the sun but if he isnt listening it wont help him. I am sure he has had more than his share of medical and non-medical words of wisdom from a variety of different sources. 

Whatever is going on with him, and we don't know if anything genuinely is, then he has the support and resources he needs. There are plenty of people out there who don't, who can't afford private help,  have been failed by the NHS services and/or have no family/friend network to fall back on and have to keep going and going until they break. 

Its no wonder Kenwright hasnt got any money to invest in the club with all these journalists on the payroll!

On 18/06/2023 at 18:55, Romey 1878 said:

We managed to get Onana over West Ham who had just had a decent season and qualified for Europe while we'd just escaped relegation.

It's not beyond the realms of possibility that we can beat off competition again if we can put in a competitive offer.

Problem is we dont have the finances to try and do that against other PL teams and its deals like Onana that if they dont come off, end up costing us big on FFP.

Even after a very average season, it looks like we will be able to move him on for a decent fee so it has worked out this time but its failed plenty of times in the past!

2 hours ago, Shukes said:

Definitely. I think it was Onana who turned down West Ham who had just qualified for Europe to join us as well wasn’t it? 
 

The stadium is a big pull for players. Europe will always be a massive pull. But we are still Everton and we haven’t disappeared into the wilderness just yet.

The reports were that Onana turned down West Ham for us as we offered him more money. We have paid him a fortune too, far more than his talent deserves at the moment. 

2 hours ago, Goodison Glory said:

Agree with the sentiment here.

That said, what I read about transfers was that we lost players to other clubs not because they didn't want to come here but because we procrastinated....and we procrastinated because we couldn't get the terms right - our cashflow meant we had to be very specific about what could be paid - this is Cash Flow...not FFP. We simply did not have the money. In the Summer I believe Gibbs-White was one, In January, Danny Ings was another, as well as Danjurama. He only signed for Spurs because we let him leave Liverpool while we figured out how to pay for him. Again, just what I read....could be true, might not be...as with most transfers, you never really know.

I think we dodged a lot of bullets this January. 

We could never afford Gibbs-White. Ings would have been a risk for us and on big wages, for all that he is a good player when fit. Danjuma ditched us for Spurs which is understandable. Players have agents and mobile phones. Letting him leave the building isnt the reason he jumped ship.

On 18/06/2023 at 18:51, c1982 said:

I disagree - I think he’s a decent player. Full of energy and comfortable on the ball. He was a key part of Emery’s Arsenal and has not really had any consistency since. I was going to post when I saw him ‘free’ (before confirmation) a couple of weeks ago but knew he wouldn’t be for everyone so couldn’t be arsed but now we’re actually linked, I hope we sign him.

When I saw him for Southampton last season he was shocking. I don't really see anything that is particularly good about him and his career is going backwards quickly which is never a good sign. 

I would be astonished if Alli hasn't seen a counsellor before now. 

As with anything though, its all about how much he wants to change and improve. 

10 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

REMINDER: "A statement will be made about interim appointments and the future of the Chairman in the next 48 hours." June 12, 2023

Tick.... Tick.... Tick....

The 'Tock' has gone missing and this is now a potential time bomb. 48 hours has become 120 hours and counting.

Fire them all, Mr. Moshiri. It's your money. You've been generous, but now your reputation and legacy are at stake. When I met you many years ago, you were decisive and capable. Prove that you remain so. Act without further delay.

I imagine Mr Moshiri has a lot to do with the delay!

27 minutes ago, Formby said:

I always read your posts! This thread is full of your negative comments about Gray. Not sure how you can deny that!

In terms of Maupay, lauding was perhaps a shade too far but you have certainly been more forgiving of him than Gray - which is odd considering their respective price tags. 

I must admit I do find him very frustrating but thats because he is clearly very talented. Unfortunately though his career has shown him to be unable to deliver anywhere near what he should do. 

With Maupay, I just think it is more to do with him being in the wrong team than being as crap as people suggest. Not that I think he is a particularly good player either!

I think football fans have a habit of going to extremes on players, whereas the truth lies somewhere in the middle. As much as Maupay isn't the worst forward to grace Goodison, Gray also isn't as much of a threat as people have been suggesting. 

On 16/06/2023 at 01:15, Btay said:

Would be a good option on the wing. I’m hoping Dobbin can come back and get in and around the first team squad as well.

I would be a little surprised if he did. I think another loan to the Championship would be more likely.

16 hours ago, Shukes said:

Mate, how many times have you saw him in the box in his own with just the keeper to beat… and somehow he manages to kick the ball onto his own nose, that then dribbles down his body to hit his knee and go out for a throw in.

He is doing a job for us there and when he hits them, they stay hit. 
But not in any world would I call him an attacking creative player. 
He is a high press player.

He definitely isnt creative but attacking players come in different ways. We had Fellaini and Cahill as a strike partnership for a couple of years and they were extremely limited in creativity and technique. 

I think he can see and read how the attacks develop even if he can't actually make it happen.

I do agree he is a high press player as well.

21 hours ago, Shukes said:

Onana will be a defensive midfielder. 
His natural game is to sit there and try to link defence and midfield.

Doucoure isn’t an attacking player at all. But Dyche has been very smart and realised that he does have energy and can be the high press. He forces players into mistakes, which creates chances. 
His finishing is terrible as far as chances converted (not to be confused with conversion rate) as he trips over himself far more than he gets a shot off. But when he does….. history is history.

Gana is not an attacking player at all, though he often played a box to box for PSG. 
 

Garner is frustrating as people say he can shoot. But he just doesn’t do it, or hasn’t so far. But again, I don’t think his natural game is an attacking midfielder…. But rather the type that receives a ball and sprays it out.

We LACK attacking midfielders. Until we bring more in, it would be foolish to let anymore go.

I disagree about Doucoure. He isnt your usual attacking player and he generally has the technique of a drunk giraffe but the lad knows how to pop up in the final third and get on the end of things. He did it for Watford, did it for us under Benitez and again for Dyche. 

21 hours ago, Palfy said:

Chain him to the dressing room toilet. 

By all means, if that is what you are into

Garner is the closest of those players of being able to be a creative attacking player. I think he can do a lot because he is a clever footballer and he reads the game well. 

Onana could be used as a direct, powerful attacker but its not his best attribute. He can play a decent through ball, but he isn't a goal scorer at all. 

Doucoure is similar to Onana but he has more of an eye for goal and finding that space or making that run. His attacking ability comes from his dynamism and timing.

Gana is never an attacking player. Ever. Chain him to the half way line. 

2 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

 

I don't know why I bother!

Sorrryyy!!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65917204

4 hours ago, RuffRob said:

I was about to say the same.  We have to avoid hamstring ourselves in very winnable opening games. On paper you would be hoping for 5-6 point at least. That's a decent percentage of our point total this past couple of years. These point do make the difference between going up or down. The January window should have taught us that you leave it till the last week or few days at your peril.

 

You may say that but all of those teams will be looking at us as a game to pick up 3 points!

17 hours ago, Palfy said:

Do we know of any firm offers from these said teams, or was it just all rumours with no concrete approaches. I personally don’t think we are guilty of not selling players at the right price, we have been guilty of buying the wrong players for over inflated prices that can’t be moved on, so they end up running their contracts down and walking on a free, but what we shouldn’t be doing is selling every player just because they have turned a profit, we need to look at the bigger picture which is how much more will it cost to replace them, and what we can afford are they better and will they make an improvement to the team. 

No we don't but there tends to be no smoke without fire these days, especially with agents how they are. Maybe there weren't any but its not hard to understand his value was higher after the 6 months of so with Benitez than it is now.

7 hours ago, Shukes said:

The quality I mention Bailey, is that he can take a player on and score a goal. 
He is a player that can turn a game by scoring a goal from nothing. 
Does he do it often enough? No he doesn’t, but he is capable of that and if used correctly he can be a good weapon to have. 
 

I get that he is a frustrating player, but he is a wide attacking player and they are all the same. Look at O’Neil. He is our hero at the moment. 
Now go back six months and look at the forums. It was a sigh when he was named a starter. 
 

Wide players are players that frustrate one minute and score a worldly the next.

He can take on a player, he also very regularly loses the ball when he tries. He can score a goal, but evidence shows its not very many!

He can turn a game but he also pisses so many chances up the wall. He wastes far more than he scores.

46 minutes ago, Formby said:

Never one to knock a man when he's looking round for his  and stats sheets, but it is very odd not to recognise Gray's value per money spent on him and yet laud Monsieur Maupay, whose ability seems miniscule and value less! 

You may wish to read the posts a bit more Formby. Not once have I questioned Gray's value per money spent nor lauded Maupay's.

I thought the 48 hours bit was a bit of a wind up anyway!

3 hours ago, Shukes said:

That o it counts if a good offer comes in for him Bailey. That’s obvious for any player in the team. 
 

I actually think we would be looking at 7-8m for him. Which isn’t enough these days to replace him with a teenager. That would be terrible business, absolutely shocking.

Now if we’re offered 15m for him then yes we would be foolish not to cash in.

But if we were offered the right price for any player, the same counts. 

Thats the point. Im not saying sell at any cost, I am saying if someone offers us good money, we should take it. 

3 hours ago, Palfy said:

You can only do what you are saying if the offers are coming in, you can’t sell if no one is buying, I’m sure if the right concrete offer came in as happened with Richarlison and Gordon we would have taken it. Every player is only worth in monetary terms what someone is prepared to pay for them, and sometimes you have to make the decision not to sell if what they could be sold for is way below what it would cost to replace them and gamble why sell. Unfortunately things aren’t always as simple as we would like them to be. 

Again, I agree. Last summer there were reports of teams looking at paying decent money. That figure is going down and down now.

2 hours ago, Shukes said:

That’s my point Matt, even for 15m we would struggle find someone of his quality. To be honest I just threw that figure out there without even thinking about it.

My opinion is that he is low cost and seems happy to sit on the bench. 
 

It would cost a decent amount to replace him.

You say his quality but what is that? What does he actually bring apart from a lot of promise and nothing to show for it bar the odd screamer.

1 hour ago, Matt said:

No striker and a club in turmoil with a clueless manager. He is firepower, the club has been a bucket of water over the gunpowder. That's true for all of them to be honest. 

But still, you don't rate him. Who, for £15-20m, do we get to improve on him and want to come to this shitshow of a club?

Ill wait...

I gave you two examples from last summer who did as much as Gray in one season as he has done in two. One of them did come to this shit show as well

2 hours ago, RuffRob said:

do you think he is worth more than £5M this summer? What we payed for players is not a great barometer for what we might sell for 

Not sure he is worth £5 based on what he looked like for us but hopefully someone can look past that!