If Not Him, Then Who?

[jcrawfor]

Not a single sane person can now doubt that David Moyes is not the person to be holding the title of Manager of Everton Football Club. This year alone he has proved, beyond reasonable (and even unreasonable) doubt, that he his a terrible manager in every aspect save one. Moyes can make a shrewd, keen, brilliant buy in the transfer market from the lower or foreign leagues. Outside of that quality, he has nothing. Not anymore. At one point Moyes was the man to take this club forward, but not anymore. His ideas are tired; it seems as if he's not had a single new one in well over a year. Cahill and Fellaini up front? You've got to be fucking kidding. The man is so fucking blind; there is no way any person who has seen those two players even once plays them as the primary strike force. Cahill can't play back to the goal (cuz he's a fucking midfielder) and Fellaini hasn't scored since moving to his natural position in defensive mid. How Moyes can bench our only scoring striker 4 games in a row is beyond me. The man is a fucking moron. And we wonder why Pienaar is looking to leave. Would you want to play for a manager who is clearly not capable of winning? Get rid.

 

The question really is...who is the man? Sven? Pellegrini? Hiddink? Surely with 60k/week we can attract a top name manager or at the least an attack minded young manager to do the job. Moyes has done a job assembling the squad, now we need someone who can make a proper team sheet each week and win us some god damned silverware. Out with Moyes.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Not a single sane person can now doubt that David Moyes is not the person to be holding the title of Manager of Everton Football Club. This year alone he has proved, beyond reasonable (and even unreasonable) doubt, that he his a terrible manager in every aspect save one. Moyes can make a shrewd, keen, brilliant buy in the transfer market from the lower or foreign leagues. Outside of that quality, he has nothing. Not anymore. At one point Moyes was the man to take this club forward, but not anymore. His ideas are tired; it seems as if he's not had a single new one in well over a year. Cahill and Fellaini up front? You've got to be fucking kidding. The man is so fucking blind; there is no way any person who has seen those two players even once plays them as the primary strike force. Cahill can't play back to the goal (cuz he's a fucking midfielder) and Fellaini hasn't scored since moving to his natural position in defensive mid. How Moyes can bench our only scoring striker 4 games in a row is beyond me. The man is a fucking moron. And we wonder why Pienaar is looking to leave. Would you want to play for a manager who is clearly not capable of winning? Get rid.

 

The question really is...who is the man? Sven? Pellegrini? Hiddink? Surely with 60k/week we can attract a top name manager or at the least an attack minded young manager to do the job. Moyes has done a job assembling the squad, now we need someone who can make a proper team sheet each week and win us some god damned silverware. Out with Moyes.

 

 

 

Behave yourself!

 

 

Moyes is still the right man for the job and if you honestly think that we could attract a manager like Pellegrini or Hiddink then you are even more delusional than a fat topless Geordie on a cold winters day

 

Our wonderful strikers have been firing blanks all season, everyone of them has had a chance to stake thier claim and none of them are up to it so why shouldnt he try something else?

[marcopaulo]

he shouldn't shift cahill from behind the striker...he has scored 9 goals there this season so he moves his position? granted the strikers haven't been hittin top form(understatement) but when beckford looks like he is findin his feet and wants to make a pain of himself for the defence he is worth a go..cahill has to stay behind the striker though..end of

 

i'm losin patience with moyes but i think he should stay..maybe cos we can't afford to get rid or get anyone better? i don't know..he really needs to freshen up though..i just wonder if vic will be back in the team upfront against stoke

Edited December 29, 2010 by marcopaulo

[Bill]

Not a single sane person can now doubt that David Moyes is not the person to be holding the title of Manager of Everton Football Club. This year alone he has proved, beyond reasonable (and even unreasonable) doubt, that he his a terrible manager in every aspect save one. Moyes can make a shrewd, keen, brilliant buy in the transfer market from the lower or foreign leagues. Outside of that quality, he has nothing. Not anymore. At one point Moyes was the man to take this club forward, but not anymore. His ideas are tired; it seems as if he's not had a single new one in well over a year. Cahill and Fellaini up front? You've got to be fucking kidding. The man is so fucking blind; there is no way any person who has seen those two players even once plays them as the primary strike force. Cahill can't play back to the goal (cuz he's a fucking midfielder) and Fellaini hasn't scored since moving to his natural position in defensive mid. How Moyes can bench our only scoring striker 4 games in a row is beyond me. The man is a fucking moron. And we wonder why Pienaar is looking to leave. Would you want to play for a manager who is clearly not capable of winning? Get rid.

 

The question really is...who is the man? Sven? Pellegrini? Hiddink? Surely with 60k/week we can attract a top name manager or at the least an attack minded young manager to do the job. Moyes has done a job assembling the squad, now we need someone who can make a proper team sheet each week and win us some god damned silverware. Out with Moyes.

 

 

To be Honest your talking a load of coblers, those managers you mention will only go to clubs that can provide a massive transfer kitty, but you seem to forget that David Moyes has never had one.

 

I agree he is a bit carefull in his approach and sets out not to lose rather than to win, but there is no other Manager out there in the prem who could have achieved what we have for the past 9 years with hardly any funds at all.

 

Ive had a go at him many times and was thoroughly pissed off at the team he put out yesterday, but i still think he is the best man for our club.

[Jimmy the blue]

There was a time when those who have been anti-Moyes would have received a blast from me but not now. I also think he is fraid round the edges. His decisions of late are those of a man who has run out of ideas. We have a brilliant young centre back in Shane Duffy left on the bench last night because Moyes replaced the injured Jags with Hibbo, lunacy in my book. If a player is playing poorly drop him, it seems Moyes idea is make excuses and ignore the problem, Saha being a prime example. I would love Moyes to come good again but his rhetoric is that of a man who hasn't got a clue about what ails us, he should have as he is the manager.

 

As we get to wards the season end Moyes position will become more and more untenable if this abysmal form continues. Why blame the players when he picks the team. Look at Blackpool, they have managed to win matches without spending hardly anything, their manager takes chances, Moyes alas doesn't and that is his weakness as others have found out.

[MikeO]

Cahill and Fellaini up front? You've got to be fucking kidding.

Fellaini didn't play up front yesterday .

 

When the two of them did play up front together (due to having not fit strikers rather than no decent ones) they did a good job I seem to remember (not that I'm suggesting they should do it again).

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

There was a time when those who have been anti-Moyes would have received a blast from me but not now. I also think he is fraid round the edges. His decisions of late are those of a man who has run out of ideas. We have a brilliant young centre back in Shane Duffy left on the bench last night because Moyes replaced the injured Jags with Hibbo, lunacy in my book..[/b] If a player is playing poorly drop him, it seems Moyes idea is make excuses and ignore the problem, Saha being a prime example. I would love Moyes to come good again but his rhetoric is that of a man who hasn't got a clue about what ails us, he should have as he is the manager.

 

As we get to wards the season end Moyes position will become more and more untenable if this abysmal form continues. Why blame the players when he picks the team. Look at Blackpool, they have managed to win matches without spending hardly anything, their manager takes chances, Moyes alas doesn't and that is his weakness as others have found out.

 

 

Saha has been dropped, as have Yak and Beckford because they are playing poorly so Moyes tried something different last night and is getting slated for it.

 

I dont watch the reserves so I couldnt comment on wether or not Duffy is ready but Moyse sees him every day in training and if he feels he isnt ready to step up then thats good enough for me.

[Hafnia]

Again I point to the fact that we lack ambition (or for want of a better word money to buy quality) that's the board and my views on them are well documented.

 

The reality is that moyes only saving grace for many fans on here is "who else would put up with our lack of money etc etc" and so we come to the conclusion that mediocrity is acceptable along with negative tactics as long as we get the odd top 6 finish. For me that is not what everton football club is about, it's more than that. The longer this mediocrity is tolerated, then the more our younger generation fans are going to accept the odd scraps of near success as something to be celebrated.

 

In short the relationship with moyes and the board has been cosy for too long, they are happy to sit watching moyes operate on a transfer budget of nothing as long as they are in no danger of seeing the club relegated or moyes coming out with Martin oniell esque transfer fund demands. Moyes on the other hand can't go wrong as his permanent standing as plucky under achiever is cemented year on year by the lack of financial backing, patronising "well done everton on finishing above mid table, only a matter of time before man it'd comes calling for moyes"

 

Things need to change, the board will not fund quality transfer targets, moyes is tactically appalling, all has gone stale and the players that have helped us punch above our weight are getting older and possibly looking for change too.

[marcopaulo]

Saha has been dropped, as have Yak and Beckford because they are playing poorly so Moyes tried something different last night and is getting slated for it.

 

I dont watch the reserves so I couldnt comment on wether or not Duffy is ready but Moyse sees him every day in training and if he feels he isnt ready to step up then thats good enough for me.

 

you can't say it's a good idea to change cahill's position though?

[GoodisonRoad]

I Love Moyes to bits and we as fans should thank him no end for were he has got us, but if he cant find his feet tactically after what? 8 years now, then something has to be done. You cant say we dont have the quality to go and take it to teams away from home (Especially West Ham) When Blackpool, who's record signing was £1m are doing it every single week and pulling off some great results.

 

Not sure who we could get in to replace Moyes tbh, all of the above mentioned are way out of our reach as everyone has said. Personally i think we would have to be sniffing round the like's of Martin Jol, didnt have a great time at Spurs i'll admit that, but he had a great time at Ajax last season, basically using their youngsters....... Just a thought....

[rubecula]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing isn't it?

 

Perhaps we should have played Beckford from the start?

 

And if dandelions were pink they would be roses.

 

Moyes did not send out a team in order to lose the game, but that seems to be the opinion of a lot of people.

 

Moyes is our manager, and he is the best we can possibly have right now, unless someone knows different.

 

OK we only managed a draw. It is not good, but get over it. It happens, and unfortunately it doesn't help us much, but it happens.

[Hafnia]

What concerns me is the attitude that we may as well put up with it as who else would have us?

 

As soon as we understand how much we are up for sale for, who bill borrowed his money off etc etc we would have a clearer understanding.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Again I point to the fact that we lack ambition (or for want of a better word money to buy quality) that's the board and my views on them are well documented.

 

The reality is that moyes only saving grace for many fans on here is "who else would put up with our lack of money etc etc" and so we come to the conclusion that mediocrity is acceptable along with negative tactics as long as we get the odd top 6 finish. For me that is not what everton football club is about, it's more than that. The longer this mediocrity is tolerated, then the more our younger generation fans are going to accept the odd scraps of near success as something to be celebrated.

 

In short the relationship with moyes and the board has been cosy for too long, they are happy to sit watching moyes operate on a transfer budget of nothing as long as they are in no danger of seeing the club relegated or moyes coming out with Martin oniell esque transfer fund demands. Moyes on the other hand can't go wrong as his permanent standing as plucky under achiever is cemented year on year by the lack of financial backing, patronising "well done everton on finishing above mid table, only a matter of time before man it'd comes calling for moyes"

 

Things need to change, the board will not fund quality transfer targets, moyes is tactically appalling, all has gone stale and the players that have helped us punch above our weight are getting older and possibly looking for change too.

 

 

Are you for real? The odd top 6 finish, we have finished in the top 6 4 times in Moyse's 8 years with a 7 and 8th finish also in there so its a bit more than the odd top 6 finish. Its also a damn site better than how we were doing before he arrived.

 

We would all love to win the league but realitically it is never going to happen until we find major investment. Face facts football is all about money these days. I have no idea what the average age of the squad is but it is certainly a lot lower than it was when Moyes took over and hw has managed to get most players tied down to long contracts so I fail to see your point about the players getting older. If Moysie could prevent that then he truley would be the mesiah!

 

Sacking Moyse is not going to change the fact that the club is skint in fact keeping him is surely an asset to any would be investor

 

Be very careful what you wish for!

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

you can't say it's a good idea to change cahill's position though?

 

 

 

He has tried everything else so why not give it a go?

 

Ok it hasnt worked so its back to the drawing board but the point is that he is getting slated for not making changes then as soon as he does he gets slated some more

[marcopaulo]

making changes to something unsuccessful yes do that as in the striker's situation but changing something successful to try and remedy that is not good management...he nullified cahill's game which is the only way we are scoring goals so why put him somewhere where he might score rather than where he has been scoring? hindsight is wonderful but moyes is a clown for moving cahill and should know beforehand not to change something that is working

[kennyw10]

Again I point to the fact that we lack ambition (or for want of a better word money to buy quality) that's the board and my views on them are well documented.

 

The reality is that moyes only saving grace for many fans on here is "who else would put up with our lack of money etc etc" and so we come to the conclusion that mediocrity is acceptable along with negative tactics as long as we get the odd top 6 finish. For me that is not what everton football club is about, it's more than that. The longer this mediocrity is tolerated, then the more our younger generation fans are going to accept the odd scraps of near success as something to be celebrated.

 

In short the relationship with moyes and the board has been cosy for too long, they are happy to sit watching moyes operate on a transfer budget of nothing as long as they are in no danger of seeing the club relegated or moyes coming out with Martin oniell esque transfer fund demands. Moyes on the other hand can't go wrong as his permanent standing as plucky under achiever is cemented year on year by the lack of financial backing, patronising "well done everton on finishing above mid table, only a matter of time before man it'd comes calling for moyes"

 

Things need to change, the board will not fund quality transfer targets, moyes is tactically appalling, all has gone stale and the players that have helped us punch above our weight are getting older and possibly looking for change too.

I think you have hit on the most imoportant point of all this, and its AMBITION! Last night was fucking embarassing in my opoinion. Playing hibbert ahead of duffy was bad enough. Slating the strikers for not scoring and then not playing ANY of them is another act of a man who looks like he is losing the plot. But what really stood out for me was the way moyes tried to run the clock down by making two subs in injury time against relegation fodder west ham. He then has the cheek to come out and say that he is dissappointed with a point. Does he think we are fucking thick. If he wanted to win the game why didnt he make the changes earlier. If he thinks this is acceptable for everton, then he is wrong. Time to go, and take the hibberts of the club with you!

[Romey 1878]

Moyes did not send out a team in order to lose the game, but that seems to be the opinion of a lot of people.

 

 

No he didn't Rubes, but he didn't send out a team in order to win the game either in my eyes. That's where my problem lies with him. He cares more about not losing rather than looking to win. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, David Moyes isn't a loser but he most definitely isn't a winner either.

Edited December 29, 2010 by Romey 1878

[Jimmy the blue]

Saha has been dropped, as have Yak and Beckford because they are playing poorly so Moyes tried something different last night and is getting slated for it.

 

I dont watch the reserves so I couldnt comment on wether or not Duffy is ready but Moyse sees him every day in training and if he feels he isnt ready to step up then thats good enough for me.

 

 

Dunc's how long did it take him to drop Saha, loyalty is one thing down right stupidity is another mate as any one could see he wasn't performing and hasn't for nearly a year, a goal scorer he once was but isn't now. The Yak started to get some form and had the carpet pulled from under his feet, like Beckford he needs confidence and Moyes is failing miserably to give him any. As for kids progressing to the ranks, it took a clamour from the fans to get Seamus a place, do we have to wave banners to get Duffy on the pitch.

 

 

Actually he didn't try anything new last night he simply reverted to what he did last year when we had a string of injuries, as I said he is predictable mate and believe you me I take no pleasure in pointing out his faults as I have supported him through thick and thin, trouble is we now seem to be emaciated

[jcrawfor]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing isn't it?

 

Perhaps we should have played Beckford from the start?

 

And if dandelions were pink they would be roses.

 

Moyes did not send out a team in order to lose the game, but that seems to be the opinion of a lot of people.

 

Moyes is our manager, and he is the best we can possibly have right now, unless someone knows different.

 

OK we only managed a draw. It is not good, but get over it. It happens, and unfortunately it doesn't help us much, but it happens.

 

This is a load of utter shit. Hindsight hasn't got a thing to do with it. I didn't have to watch the match to know we weren't going to win without a striker, with 2 defensive mids, an out of form Arteta and our 3rd choice RB in at CB. Fuck, a blind man could have told you months in advance we weren't going to win that match given that team sheet. I completely disagree that we can't attract a better manager than Moyes. We may not find someone who makes the brilliant 2mil buys, but I did concede that was Moyes' one point of brilliance (if you can name another please do). But, after 18 matches, there is not a worse manager, tactically in the Prem. Rubes, at some point you've got to wake up and smell the pink dandelions and realize that we can go unbeaten from here and and still go down. If we keep drawing we're going down, and right now, David Moyes looks either unable or unwilling to produce a result better than a draw.

 

Dunc, you keep giving us shit fr slagging off Moyes. Sure, he made a change yesterday, but you've got to be fucking kidding! Cahill as lone striker?!?! The man clearly doesn't even know how to properly employ his FAVORITE player, the one around whom he has built this team! Fuck man, Moyes has gone wrong at every step this term. He's stripped Yak of the starting spot just as he had found fitness and a glimpse of form and given it to that french piece of shit Saha who hasn't scored in a fucking year! Then, when Beckford makes some wonderful substitute appearances and does more in 20-30 mins than Saha did in 60-70; by all reasonable measures earning a start against bottom half opposition, Moyes benches him indefinitely. Fuckin ludicrous.

 

Anyone who says we can't manage to attract a manager who is more tactically inclined than that needs to have a look around. Moyes doesn't know how to get his best players playing their best anymore. He doesn't know when and where to play his best players. And he's stopped taking any chances with new young players apart from Rodders (Coleman is 22, which is no longer young).

[Zed]

David Moyes isnt a winner or the man for the Job, lacks ambition or is past it, get fooking real people. I'm old enough to remember life before moyes, which was fooking diabolical by comparison.

 

He's a passionate, reliable, astute and honest man, with lots of ambition!

 

If your looking for a more suitable manager for Everton Football Club unfortunately for the the short minded, I dont think there is one.

 

Not for me anyway!

[rubecula]

This is a load of utter shit. Hindsight hasn't got a thing to do with it. I didn't have to watch the match to know we weren't going to win without a striker, with 2 defensive mids, an out of form Arteta and our 3rd choice RB in at CB. Fuck, a blind man could have told you months in advance we weren't going to win that match given that team sheet. I completely disagree that we can't attract a better manager than Moyes. We may not find someone who makes the brilliant 2mil buys, but I did concede that was Moyes' one point of brilliance (if you can name another please do). But, after 18 matches, there is not a worse manager, tactically in the Prem. Rubes, at some point you've got to wake up and smell the pink dandelions and realize that we can go unbeaten from here and and still go down. If we keep drawing we're going down, and right now, David Moyes looks either unable or unwilling to produce a result better than a draw.

 

Hmmm? Who?

[Matt]

yawn. this crap again... I really cannot be bothered picking this one apart, its just so steeped with knee-jerk recycled bullshit. Besides, Dunc is more than adequately fronting the arguement of reason on this one. If you think any of the managers mentioned would consider putting up with what DM has put up with for so long, youre an idiot. If you the go further and think that these managers could do better than DM is/has, you need to go to a shrink. He is frustrating but there is noone i would rather have in charge considering our current climate. Give me 1 serious contender, because the likes of Sven (hes done... errr... nothing in the last 10 years), Pellegrini (unproven in this league and too close to retirement) and Hiddink (unless he was blackmailed / high / bored) wouldnt touch us with a bargepole. Jol, he is a decent manager but not good enough, Holloway is on a roll and having a good season, as is Coyle. None of these are serious options so whats left? Anyone says Big Sam and I will personally hunt you down and beat the sense into you....

 

Just to defend Hibbo a little , I didnt see the goal, but when he has played CB over the past 2 years (3 occasions i believe; 2 in Europe, 1 vs Spurs) he was actually one of our best players in those games. The terms "Scapegoat" and "Kneejerk" spring to mind...

[ftaylor]

I think there is a serious argument to be made that Moyes is not the best man for the job- but the cost of a managerial change at this point is entirely preventative. Moyes is due another 10 millions pounds on his contract right? So sacking him will be expensive. Furthermore any manager brought it will not be able to remodel the team as no money will be made availiable. Everton, to use the overused phrase, have been punching above there weight for the past 5 or so years and now we seem to be slipping down the table the past two years- This is not an attractive situation for a manager a team with relatively high expectations and few resources to meet them with. The cost of Moyes' contract termination aside I dont think we could even entice Owen Coyle to come here let alone a proven world class manager. I think Everton are married to Moyes at this point- for better or for worse.

 

Moyes has won with Everton before and with the players he has now and he has won playing Cahill up top before. I am in know way trying to defend his tactics but Moyes did not become tactically negative this season- he always has been and Everton have won despite it. In moyes we trust- anyone who says that is a fool. But sacking him wont solve the problem it will compound it.

[jcrawfor]

This is definitely not a knee-jerk reaction. After 5 matches, even 10, you could call in a knee-jerk. But truth is, we're fucking half way into the season, still bottom half (and not far off relegation) and Moyes hasn't shown he's anywhere near close to figuring out a new approach to his squad. I won't go over the reasons again, because we all clearly agree on his tactical ineptitude. But when you say there isn't a better manager out there for us, I really think you're all well off the mark. Alright, my suggestions of Pellegrini and Hiddink are a bit farfetched. But, there is no reason we can't attract another up and coming manager like we did with Moyes. Surely, with the squad we've got (I know Moyes assembled it, but he hasn't a clue how to manipulate it) any manager with a modicum of tactical vision could do much, much better. Jol is a good shout I think, but why not look into the Championship or at coaches at bigger clubs, surely they'd jump at the chance to hold the reigns of a big club like Everton.

 

To be fair to Hibbert, he did well yesterday and even the OG was just unlucky. My problem isn't with Hibbo, he's a blue through and through and I appreciate that. My problem is with DM.

Edited December 29, 2010 by bluenoseyankee

[Matt]

This is definitely not a knee-jerk reaction. After 5 matches, even 10, you could call in a knee-jerk. But truth is, we're fucking half way into the season, still bottom half (and not far off relegation) and Moyes hasn't shown he's anywhere near close to figuring out a new approach to his squad. I won't go over the reasons again, because we all clearly agree on his tactical ineptitude. But when you say there isn't a better manager out there for us, I really think you're all well off the mark. Alright, my suggestions of Pellegrini and Hiddink are a bit farfetched. But, there is no reason we can't attract another up and coming manager like we did with Moyes. Surely, with the squad we've got (I know Moyes assembled it, but he hasn't a clue how to manipulate it) any manager with a modicum of tactical vision could do much, much better. Jol is a good shout I think, but why not look into the Championship or at coaches at bigger clubs, surely they'd jump at the chance to hold the reigns of a big club like Everton.

 

To be fair to Hibbert, he did well yesterday and even the OG was just unlucky. My problem isn't with Hibbo, he's a blue through and through and I appreciate that. My problem is with DM.

 

so look at unproven options? We took a chance when we got Moyes, but it wasnt a big one because we couldnt get any worse. Now, we have a lot to lose. Youre still not putting forward names mate, i reckon because there are no options out there that deserve DMs role.

 

Another thing to think about; if Moyes goes, how many of our players will think about leaving. He has created a squad that is loyal (mostly) and that has created the spirit that we know we have.

 

We are having a bad season. Fact. But its only the 3 bad season from 9 and its not even over yet. This is why im saying knee-jerk. We are hurting as fans and we are frustrated. But talking about kicking the man out who has taken us from the miseries since before he came (Smith, Walker etc) is ungrateful. The only reason we can talk about this being a bad season is because he constructed a team that made us see we can achieve better. If we were 12th with Smith in charge we wouldve been made up!

 

3 points from relegation, 9 points from 5th. This year the league is so tight its going to go down the last few games. We are still in the same situation we were last season and there is no reason why we cannot go on another sucessful run in the second half. The strikers have to pull their weight, its that simple, and if they do we will go shooting up the table.

[Bailey]

He has tried everything else so why not give it a go?

 

Ok it hasnt worked so its back to the drawing board but the point is that he is getting slated for not making changes then as soon as he does he gets slated some more

 

As I have said many times before its not a case of who we try there its a case of how we set up to support the striker and bring him into the game. Cahill proved this yesterday, as did Yakubu when he came on. Neither had any support, 80% of the balls aimed at them were long balls or not accurate. Blame the strikers all you want but Cahill didnt even get a sniff yesterday and bar the two chances for Coleman we didnt creat much either.

 

 

No he didn't Rubes, but he didn't send out a team in order to win the game either in my eyes. That's where my problem lies with him. He cares more about not losing rather than looking to win. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, David Moyes isn't a loser but he most definitely isn't a winner either.

 

Spot on... The two time wasting subs highlight this to perfection. Would SAF, Wenger, Ancellotti, Redknapp etc etc done this? No would they fuck.

 

 

Dunc's how long did it take him to drop Saha, loyalty is one thing down right stupidity is another mate as any one could see he wasn't performing and hasn't for nearly a year, a goal scorer he once was but isn't now. The Yak started to get some form and had the carpet pulled from under his feet, like Beckford he needs confidence and Moyes is failing miserably to give him any. As for kids progressing to the ranks, it took a clamour from the fans to get Seamus a place, do we have to wave banners to get Duffy on the pitch.

 

Actually he didn't try anything new last night he simply reverted to what he did last year when we had a string of injuries, as I said he is predictable mate and believe you me I take no pleasure in pointing out his faults as I have supported him through thick and thin, trouble is we now seem to be emaciated

 

Spot on as well. We physically saw glimpses of tactical improvement against City (to start with) but he threw it away and wasted it completely. He cant see what is right infront of his eyes even when he does do something well. How much longer do we have to wait until it clicks and we go on another good run, only to randomly forget what we do well and revert back to the shit we are playing now. (Dont even try and suggest it wont happen because it happens every year!)

 

yawn. this crap again... I really cannot be bothered picking this one apart, its just so steeped with knee-jerk recycled bullshit. Besides, Dunc is more than adequately fronting the arguement of reason on this one. If you think any of the managers mentioned would consider putting up with what DM has put up with for so long, youre an idiot. If you the go further and think that these managers could do better than DM is/has, you need to go to a shrink. He is frustrating but there is noone i would rather have in charge considering our current climate. Give me 1 serious contender, because the likes of Sven (hes done... errr... nothing in the last 10 years), Pellegrini (unproven in this league and too close to retirement) and Hiddink (unless he was blackmailed / high / bored) wouldnt touch us with a bargepole. Jol, he is a decent manager but not good enough, Holloway is on a roll and having a good season, as is Coyle. None of these are serious options so whats left? Anyone says Big Sam and I will personally hunt you down and beat the sense into you....

 

Just to defend Hibbo a little , I didnt see the goal, but when he has played CB over the past 2 years (3 occasions i believe; 2 in Europe, 1 vs Spurs) he was actually one of our best players in those games. The terms "Scapegoat" and "Kneejerk" spring to mind...

 

While I am not going to attempt to suggest managers as you quite rightly say it wont be easy convincing someone to come here. However we DO have a squad capable for CL football without having to buy another player. If thats not a lure I am not sure what is tbh. Any quality manager out there watching could probably have a little look at us and point out numerous points where we could tactically improve (as many people do on here, albeit some less accurate than others!). It pisses me off just as much that the other backroom staff let him get away with this crap.

 

Hibbo didnt necessarily play badly interms of his effort and commitment BUT there were so many times he was out of position it was unreal. Distin was having to cover everywhere considering Neville & Baines werent at their best.

[Hafnia]

Why are people defending moyes? In my opinion he is the sole cause for where we are this season. He trains and picks the players. That squad is more than good enough to be in the top 6.

 

I can and have made the argument that the board is a joke, however the dithering one has made a calamity of his resources to the point that relegation is a serious possibilty, and this is the man to take is forward? He's had a stint, like all managers, clough, shanklys, etc etc but he is making an absolute joke of the reputation he has built. With better players he is scoring less goals?

 

Change needs to happen

 

Edit: has anyone noticed the blank angry questions he was asking to round and woods last night? Was hardly wenger and rice was it

Edited December 29, 2010 by Hafnia2

[Matt]

Why are people defending moyes? In my opinion he is the sole cause for where we are this season. He trains and picks the players.

 

There is no sole cause, thinking that is just childish but im assuming in this case frustration is taking over. He picks a team, we usually take the opposition apart but we cannot score goals. Strikers, the people on the pitch who actually play the game, have to take the majority of the stick. Our creative midfielders (Arteta, Pienaar) have done very little in adding to the tally. Moyes should take some responsibility, but hes damned if he does, damned if he doesnt. He threw in Beckford too early, he got slammed for it. Now hes not playing him, hes getting slammed for it. Saha had 15 goals last season (in half a season) plus is a proven goal scorer in this league and Moyes has been trying to get him back to form. It takes a while for any player to find form but it hasnt worked, thats not Moyes fault - he cannot see the future - and who can blame him for perservering with his best goalscorer from last year? Yak, when he was supposedly coming back to form still looked like the lazy git he is, was and always will be. Beckford needs more game time but when youre low on goals, you tend to stick with those you know have done so in the past.

 

The alternative is that you try to change strategies like against West Ham, like everyone on here has been crying for. It didnt work, so lets call for his head He dropped the lead weight that Saha has become and stuck Arteta in, hoping for a bit of magic from again a player who has certain quality but for some reason isnt clicking. It didnt work this time, but football is never about quick fixes!

 

Hafnia, your arguements are usually all well explained and well put (even if i rarely agree) and i enjoy reading your point of view. But putting all the blame on Moyes is just not accurate. Its the players on the pitch that arent getting the goals. Yes he picks the team and the players that arent scoring but at the end of the day, its the strikers who are on the pitch to get goals and theyre not doing it. The blame lies mostly there.\

 

@ Bailey, we do have a squad capable of CL footy for sure. But with no money to improve on it, there are no managers who will look at us. The managers who are making it at the highest levels are floating in cash, they have a different pressure. Im not sure Ancelloti, Wenger, SAF etc could take over from Moyes at the moment and make this team title contenders. Why? Because the strikers arent scoring. Thats it. Talk about bad tactics (which i accept, Moyes is a big culprit of) all you like, but look at the results so far this season. Lost 3, thats good defensive strategy right there and is just as important as attacking. If youre conceding, makes how many youre scoring a whole lot more important. Drawing most, its hair-tearingly irritating but how many of them have been because the opposition has been lucky or score a wonder goal. We are getting points slowly, its not good enough but all we need are the goals to come in. Thats it. Big ask for some reason but thats the answer, because we are creating the chances. Thats less about the tactics and more about the people on the pitch. His tactics have got us into the CL and Europe 6 times in 9 seasons right? Got to be doing something right.

[jcrawfor]

A good manager figures out ways to get his strikers scoring Moyes has not done that. And every time one looks to go on a scoring spree (Yak and Beckford both had a run of games where they were looking dangerous) he benches them. That is shit of the highest order. Moyes needs to sort himself and his staff quickly or find the door.

[Matt]

A good manager figures out ways to get his strikers scoring Moyes has not done that. And every time one looks to go on a scoring spree (Yak and Beckford both had a run of games where they were looking dangerous) he benches them. That is shit of the highest order. Moyes needs to sort himself and his staff quickly or find the door.

 

Moyes is playing similar, if not the same tactics that Yak has scored 20+ in 1 season with and Saha had 15 last season. The strikers need to sort themselves out. Niether Yak nor Beckford have looked like coming close to a "spree" - Becks' only goals coming from the bench as an impact sub and Yaks was a 1 off, albeit well taken, finish. I will concede that we do look a little more aggressive with Yak heading the line, for about 45 mins before he gets bored, but in the end the results are the same as if Saha was playing.

 

If you have proven strikers who for some reason not firing, what do you do?

 

I wait for the inevitable digs at the board to follow....

Edited December 29, 2010 by Matt