Moyes

[Avinalaff]

Moyes has had the luxury of getting players far better than the money spent (mostly) - therefore people who judge him on money sent would be amazed. However, you judge him on the talent at his disposal then you get a different picture. Wasteful, dithering and blinkered.

 

Haf, you're being naughty again, and I'm going to have to send you an Internet slap.

 

 

Our players are playing shite. Isn't it time we blamed them?

[Romey 1878]

Our players are playing shite. Isn't it time we blamed them?

 

 

They are getting blamed, by the fans and Moyes, but Moyes is responsible as well.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

 

 

 

I have a few issues with these posts. Firstly, training doesnt count for shit if your not performing when it matters. We dont need to see who is performing well in training when we have seen the likes of Osman, Cahill, Heitinga, Neville etc all play out of position and play crap. Its fine if it was just a few games and it could be understandable, but we are 8+ down the line and the same mistakes are made. Regardless of who the manager is, questions would have to be raised.

 

Im not sure we have had 3 of our best players taken away. Lescott I would agree with, Pienaar should have been sold or tied down to a contract when he was worth something, and if Moyes says he makes transfer decisions then that is on his head, and Arteta was a shadow of the player was or certainly in the way he was being played (as he is finding his feet again under Wenger). I will admit it doesnt help when we have sold on these players, but its not the difference between us playing in an uncommited & unorganised manner. We stiill have a cracking squad which is being wasted.

 

Finally on this for all those people saying 'what option does he have'. Look at that Newcastle team yesterday, look at Norwich, Swansea, Wolves, QPR etc, they have half the squad we have yet they are able to play attacking football. They compete for every ball, because they have to, and if they dont they know they will get beaten by superior teams with superior players. Look at teh chances we created at Fulham in the first 10-15mins, we pressed them high up the pitch, broke quickly and could have scored 2 or 3 and had the game done and dusted. If you have a supposedly limited squad then they have to well organised & disciplined to get the most out of the resources we have. Do you honestly think we are organised or commited looking at yesterdays performance? Did we look like we wanted to beat Newcastle for every ball? Not a fucking chance...

 

 

 

If this is true then it is absolutely disgraceful. Its no wonder we started like we couldnt give a fuck if thats the sort of motivational boost he is giving to the squad before they go out.

 

 

Whats your point ?

 

None of those players are playing well and all of them have been dropped so what else is he meant to do?

[marcus jones]

How does everyone want David Moyes to change, what voice do the fans have to enforce a change of mindset in the guy? I'm at a loss because I can not see him changing.

[The Regulator]

You all do realise this happens every year though. It's been the same for the last what 4 seasons? We play shit, everyone thinks we won't get anywhere then we start and carry a good run because for some reason our team of players love being the underdog and can only perform when they know they have to.

 

Yes Moyes is negative, yes his tactics and substitutions are baffling at times, and yes we all feel we are playing badly. Newcastle however have had consistently the same back 5 since the start of the season, and as much as we weren't creeating a whole lot, noone has mentioned how well they defended, save for Alan Pardew. Who also admitted that at half time with us just having scored, at Goodison we probably would have won.

 

We have faced Manchester City, Manchester United, Chelsea and Liverpool in the last 6 games. That is an incredibly tough set of fixtures to get results from. However, we could have easily beaten liverpool were it not for jack getting sent off, we have played well in other matches, such as Villa. But if you look at the fixtures, we've had top play, contrasting what we have to come, I wouldn't be surprised if by christmas we are up to 9th or 8th and about 7 or 8 points behind 4/5th.

 

Of course Moyes is down because he can't get players, of course he's frustrated and of course so are we the fans because we're not playing as well as we can. But that one win, that one good game we play next, heads will rise. Players will look at other players with confidence. And im sure we will go on a run that will see us higher up the table and back in contention for europe.

 

every fucking year everyone gets on Moyes' back for the bad starts, and every year we recover. You may say "Well its not good enough" but trust me, no other manager in the world wants Moyes' task. Getting in the top ten every year with literally no money at all? We're lucky to have him. If he walks we're absolutely fucked. No manager will want to come here without knowing they can spend money. And we will get out of this. we know our starting eleven with all players fit and in form can beat almost anyone, the problem is they havent hit that form yet, but they will. They always do.

 

And if they don't do the job there paid for, is it ALL the manager's fault? We still should have beat Newcastle with the players on the field yesterday, regardless of tactics. But Newcastle did just enough to shut us out. Other teams, i doubt, will be able to manage the defensive display that they did.

[pete0]

I'd like him to take a year or two off and let him get his love for the game back(ans some new ideas whilst he's at it). One step back, two steps forward.

Always said I'd like to see Bilic come in if Moyes where to go, and think he would make a great stop gap. Sven if the tole is more long term.

[Avinalaff]

 

 

They are getting blamed, by the fans and Moyes, but Moyes is responsible as well.

 

Romey, Moyes was also responsible for getting us into the European Championship, regular top 6 finishing, Europa football, a Wembley final, and avoiding relegation in his first season. He's also been responsible for getting us players in with very little funding from the board, and bringing great young players into the squad too, not to mention giving all the fans a sense of pride and expectation again, which was something we hadn't enjoyed for decades.

 

Those who are now on his case are selfish, insensitive, and unrealistic, and don't deserve a great manager like Moyes.

[c1982]

I'd love us to go big and offer Beckham a player/assistant manager role at the club when his contract expires later this month - ridiculous I know!!!

[FanchesterCity]

Getting the club out of trouble (and it's not THAT dire yet) needs manager, players and fans all pulling to together and grabbing those wins.

Goodison has to be like QPR last night, a cauldron with the fans never shutting up to spur their team on - it DOES make a difference.

 

I agree that the league is tight (generally speaking) and it's a fine line between winning and losing sometimes - which is why I've warned about being too sure you won't go down.

I don't think you WILL go down,but stuff happens... sod attractive football, sod 'no money' excuses. Points make prizes, and that's what Everton need.

A couple of wins and you'll be looking up again - but you need to get those wins (perfect opportunities coming up!).

 

What I saw yesterday was a lack of effort from SOME players on pitch. I've seen the game twice and half a dozen times, players stopped chasing a ball, and let a Newcastle player carry on chasing for it (and bringing it back into play) in your own half!

 

No excuses for that.

[Avinalaff]

You all do realise this happens every year though. It's been the same for the last what 4 seasons? We play shit, everyone thinks we won't get anywhere then we start and carry a good run because for some reason our team of players love being the underdog and can only perform when they know they have to.

 

Yes Moyes is negative, yes his tactics and substitutions are baffling at times, and yes we all feel we are playing badly. Newcastle however have had consistently the same back 5 since the start of the season, and as much as we weren't creeating a whole lot, noone has mentioned how well they defended, save for Alan Pardew. Who also admitted that at half time with us just having scored, at Goodison we probably would have won.

 

We have faced Manchester City, Manchester United, Chelsea and Liverpool in the last 6 games. That is an incredibly tough set of fixtures to get results from. However, we could have easily beaten liverpool were it not for jack getting sent off, we have played well in other matches, such as Villa. But if you look at the fixtures, we've had top play, contrasting what we have to come, I wouldn't be surprised if by christmas we are up to 9th or 8th and about 7 or 8 points behind 4/5th.

 

Of course Moyes is down because he can't get players, of course he's frustrated and of course so are we the fans because we're not playing as well as we can. But that one win, that one good game we play next, heads will rise. Players will look at other players with confidence. And im sure we will go on a run that will see us higher up the table and back in contention for europe.

 

every fucking year everyone gets on Moyes' back for the bad starts, and every year we recover. You may say "Well its not good enough" but trust me, no other manager in the world wants Moyes' task. Getting in the top ten every year with literally no money at all? We're lucky to have him. If he walks we're absolutely fucked. No manager will want to come here without knowing they can spend money. And we will get out of this. we know our starting eleven with all players fit and in form can beat almost anyone, the problem is they havent hit that form yet, but they will. They always do.

 

And if they don't do the job there paid for, is it ALL the manager's fault? We still should have beat Newcastle with the players on the field yesterday, regardless of tactics. But Newcastle did just enough to shut us out. Other teams, i doubt, will be able to manage the defensive display that they did.

 

I agree. Thoughtful points well put.

[Romey 1878]

 

Romey, Moyes was also responsible for getting us into the European Championship, regular top 6 finishing, Europa football, a Wembley final, and avoiding relegation in his first season. He's also been responsible for getting us players in with very little funding from the board, and bringing great young players into the squad too, not to mention giving all the fans a sense of pride and expectation again, which was something we hadn't enjoyed for decades.

 

Those who are now on his case are selfish, insensitive, and unrealistic, and don't deserve a great manager like Moyes.

 

 

No one's saying he hasn't achieved all of that though. And he was praised to high heaven (quite rightly) for those achievements, so why shouldn't he be criticised for his poor performance as well? When players play well they get praised, and when they fuck up they get criticised, it should be the same for managers.

 

Just because Moyes has done well for us doesn't mean his mistakes should be swept under the carpet. The same way if a player scores a wonder goal one week it doesn't mean that it doesn't matter when the next week they get sent off etc.

 

Personally, I'm not asking for Moyes to be sacked or to resign. I just want him to be less rigid and be willing to change, because the tactics and decisions he's making simply aren't working and haven't for quite a while now. If somethig isn't working then you have to try something new, freshen things up.

[MikeO]

Romey, Moyes was also responsible for getting us into the European Championship, regular top 6 finishing, Europa football, a Wembley final, and avoiding relegation in his first season. He's also been responsible for getting us players in with very little funding from the board, and bringing great young players into the squad too, not to mention giving all the fans a sense of pride and expectation again, which was something we hadn't enjoyed for decades.

Using that argument we should re-employ Kendall.

[FanchesterCity]

Moyes is basically kicked in the teeth by club finances every year.

 

He gets a promising team together and the best players get bought, and forget who bought them, and how, Everton DID sell in the end (that's a whole different thread there!).

 

Moyes is constantly building a new team, only he makes one step forward, and Everton selling players takes him two steps backwards.

 

I appreciate that Moyes himself has a say in the sale of players, but the fact that he has to balance the books so prudently just makes his task nigh on impossible.

 

Sooner or later, the team will sell another player (say Baines) and replace him with an 'ok' player, and you'll be worse still. It's death by 1000 cuts really.

[FanchesterCity]

Using that argument we should re-employ Kendall.

 

No better example of living in the past. Great days, but they aren't 'now'.

 

This is how teams keep holding on to players past their sell by date, or clutching on to managers who aren't doing the business any more.

 

I'm not saying Moyes isn't - I think he's doing a sterling job, but what he did 5 years ago won't fix tomorrow.

[Hafnia]

 

 

 

No offence haf but that has got to be the biggest load of bollox I have ever heard in my life. Do you seriously beleive if we suddenly came into money and the Chairman said to Moyse , look I can sign Silva, Rooney, Ronaldo and Aguero tomorrow that Moyse wouyld say no thanks I wouldnt know what to do with them?

 

 

Oh and by the way its not only a record for someone who hasnt won anything its a record full stop!

 

Blimey Dunc everything is the biggest load of tosh you've heard, till the next post you disagree with and need to start it with a wow statement.

 

You know what, I actually discussed moyes with a Liverpool fan last night, even he said if moyes had balotelli he would be scrubbing boots and playing in the reserves. Moyes does "backs to the wall, under dog, kiss Kevin kilbanes arse and watch him cover 12km over 90 minutes" - he doesn't do spoilt over paid match winners. He could not manage players with egos or pay packets bigger than his, most managers can't, the best ones can.

 

I have said repeatedly moyes has one of the best gigs in the game. An underestimated team, a chairman whose ambition is not to be as bad as were under smith, £70k a week and now he caps it off by telling anyone who will listen that we need to recalibrate our expectations. He should manage Sunderland with those ambitions, I'll take the Swansea mangers thanks very much.

 

[Avinalaff]

Using that argument we should re-employ Kendall.

 

Moyes is a far better manager than little ole wine drinking Howard.

 

Are you forgetting Kendall nearly took us down twice?

 

Give Moyes the same money Kendall had and I'm sure he'd have a wide smile. Heck, give Moyes the same team, and I'm sure he'd smile. One thing Moyes has to compete with that Kendall didn't is Billionaire owners.

If we gave Kendall the job Mike we'd be relegated, and you know it as much as me mate.

[StevO]

I saw a few days back someone on here said David Moyes is Everton, not sure who it was.

 

After a bit of thinking I agree, but probably not in the same was as the poster.

 

Everton at the top end has stagnated, has run out of ideas and has been left behind by its peers and has left us in this financial mess.

The team look very similar, stagnated, no fresh ideas, no new style of play, and currently, no commitment.

 

David Moyes and his team are starting to reflect the board. The best thing about Moyes over the last few years was that even when the business was doing shit he kept it away from the pitch. The financial situation has got so bad the squad is feeling it, I can accept that. I cant accept poor ideas, poor attitude and poor commitment.

[Lowensda]

Reg - problem is our shit starts have been against the majority of lesser teams because they play us and park the bus. We can't unlock those teams! then we play the big boys and play well, normally because they play free-flowing football which allows us to intercept and counter. Our problem this year? We've played the teams we usually get points at! And got fuck all from them so from now on we play the lesser teams, who are only goin to do as we expect. And as I've mentioned earlier, we don't have the creativity or the ability to beat them.

 

So we go from weak starts against lesser opposition and have stronger finishes against the bigger teams but this year the fixture set-up is reversed and we've already dropped the points we should have gained to make-up our points tally against the lesser teams.

[c1982]

Getting the club out of trouble (and it's not THAT dire yet) needs manager, players and fans all pulling to together and grabbing those wins.

Goodison has to be like QPR last night, a cauldron with the fans never shutting up to spur their team on - it DOES make a difference.

 

Yes it makes a massive difference but once again you're missing the point and comparing a team who have just been promoted for the first time in many years and have not long been taken over by a £££ owner and are now watching a team far superior to what they have over the past decade... on the other hand we're a team who have not signed a player for 3 years, sold some of our best players, not getting the run of the green all too often and generally going stale... investment is pretty much the only thing that will bring back any optimism to Goodison Park - where there's optimism there is atmosphere.

 

Cue the but Man.City fans got behind 'us' in the 3rd tier of English football.. true but that's siege mentallity, Leeds fans did too. If we (Everton) were to go that low we (Evertonians) would be there week in week out getting us back to where we belong. But we're not at that stage yet, we are in a stale and sorry position and it's gone on for too long and I will not blame Evertonians for not making much of an atmosphere at the moment as I'm finding it hard to sing about much myself when I'm at GP.

[StevO]

 

Romey, Moyes was also responsible for getting us into the European Championship, regular top 6 finishing, Europa football, a Wembley final, and avoiding relegation in his first season. He's also been responsible for getting us players in with very little funding from the board, and bringing great young players into the squad too, not to mention giving all the fans a sense of pride and expectation again, which was something we hadn't enjoyed for decades.

 

Those who are now on his case are selfish, insensitive, and unrealistic, and don't deserve a great manager like Moyes.

 

He has to take the rough with the smooth though Avin.

He took lots and lots of praise with the good times, he must also take it when the bad times are here too.

It happens in every other job, you get praise when you do well and you get stick when you do bad.

[Hafnia]

 

 

No better example of living in the past. Great days, but they aren't 'now'.

 

This is how teams keep holding on to players past their sell by date, or clutching on to managers who aren't doing the business any more.

 

I'm not saying Moyes isn't - I think he's doing a sterling job, but what he did 5 years ago won't fix tomorrow.

 

Moyes managerial career has an uncanny resemblance to cahills everton career. Plucky, ambitious, hard working, no respect for reputations and an overall good egg. Roll on the years, tired, one dimensional, over rated by those watch from afar. Sad but true, you do not continue employing someone for what they have done, it is based on what they have to offer.

[Avinalaff]

 

 

No one's saying he hasn't achieved all of that though. And he was praised to high heaven (quite rightly) for those achievements, so why shouldn't he be criticised for his poor performance as well? When players play well they get praised, and when they fuck up they get criticised, it should be the same for managers.

 

Just because Moyes has done well for us doesn't mean his mistakes should be swept under the carpet. The same way if a player scores a wonder goal one week it doesn't mean that it doesn't matter when the next week they get sent off etc.

 

Personally, I'm not asking for Moyes to be sacked or to resign. I just want him to be less rigid and be willing to change, because the tactics and decisions he's making simply aren't working and haven't for quite a while now. If somethig isn't working then you have to try something new, freshen things up.

 

Picture being in a Chess game, and every time you turn away, someone takes away one of your pieces, and not just pawns, but key pieces. Meanwhile, the opponents are being given 3 or 4 queens by rich owners, and instead of having the same amount of pieces to begin with, you realise that even before the game started, you only had half the line up of the other teams.

 

That is what Moyes faces.

 

We've not had a decade of misery, but a decade of enjoyable times, and only in the last few seasons have we fallen slightly, but look at the teams who finish above us, and look how much they have spent.

 

We still finished 7th last year. How exactly were we to compete with the money of City, Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs? We finished behind those teams. Take a look at their squads. We still finished above everybody else, and some of the teams below us also have rich owners.

 

Moyes is a legend.

[FanchesterCity]

 

Yes it makes a massive difference but once again you're missing the point and comparing a team who have just been promoted for the first time in many years and have not long been taken over by a £££ owner and are now watching a team far superior to what they have over the past decade... on the other hand we're a team who have not signed a player for 3 years, sold some of our best players, not getting the run of the green all too often and generally going stale... investment is pretty much the only thing that will bring back any optimism to Goodison Park - where there's optimism there is atmosphere.

 

Cue the but Man.City fans got behind 'us' in the 3rd tier of English football.. true but that's siege mentallity, Leeds fans did too. If we (Everton) were to go that low we (Evertonians) would be there week in week out getting us back to where we belong. But we're not at that stage yet, we are in a stale and sorry position and it's gone on for too long and I will not blame Evertonians for not making much of an atmosphere at the moment as I'm finding it hard to sing about much myself when I'm at GP.

 

Fair point on the whole, but maybe Everton DO need to adopt the siege mentality themselves.

It doesn't really matter WHY QPR fans gave great support, they simply did.

And whilst it's 100% understandable why some Everton fans aren't giving support, the net result is one ground where the fans are onside making a difference and another ground where they aren't.

 

It's happening at Blackburn too and the fans have ever right to be mad, BUT it's not helping the team. It's just not

[StevO]

 

Moyes is a far better manager than little ole wine drinking Howard.

 

Are you forgetting Kendall nearly took us down twice?

 

Give Moyes the same money Kendall had and I'm sure he'd have a wide smile. Heck, give Moyes the same team, and I'm sure he'd smile. One thing Moyes has to compete with that Kendall didn't is Billionaire owners.

If we gave Kendall the job Mike we'd be relegated, and you know it as much as me mate.

 

So Moyes gets praise for his good work so we let him off with the bad.

Kendall doesnt get recignition for his good work and only gets called on for the bad?

 

Yes the situation is different at the club and has been from all three of Kendalls stints and Moyes stint. But when Moyes has a trophy cabinet to match our most successful manager I will then consider him as good as Kendall. Until then Kendall has his medals to keep him warm at night, Moyes just has £50 notes.

[Avinalaff]

Reg - problem is our shit starts have been against the majority of lesser teams because they play us and park the bus. We can't unlock those teams! then we play the big boys and play well, normally because they play free-flowing football which allows us to intercept and counter. Our problem this year? We've played the teams we usually get points at! And got fuck all from them so from now on we play the lesser teams, who are only goin to do as we expect. And as I've mentioned earlier, we don't have the creativity or the ability to beat them.

 

So we go from weak starts against lesser opposition and have stronger finishes against the bigger teams but this year the fixture set-up is reversed and we've already dropped the points we should have gained to make-up our points tally against the lesser teams.

 

 

TJ, we've just had a run of games against the best sides in the league. I include Newcastle in that too, as they aren't 3rd because they are crap. Had we played Spurs we'd have done the full set, other than Arsenal. I mention Arsenal, as Arsenal are currently 7th. That is how hard the division is.

 

Having played these teams, it's no surprise many of us are feeling down, but better times are ahead.

[c1982]

 

Fair point on the whole, but maybe Everton DO need to adopt the siege mentality themselves.

It doesn't really matter WHY QPR fans gave great support, they simply did.

And whilst it's 100% understandable why some Everton fans aren't giving support, the net result is one ground where the fans are onside making a difference and another ground where they aren't.

 

It's happening at Blackburn too and the fans have ever right to be mad, BUT it's not helping the team. It's just not

 

A siege mentallity would come if we went into admin or went down - it's not going to just come from playing poorly and picking up the odd win to keep our heads above water.

 

It does matter why QPR fans gave great support because their recent success is the plain and obvious reason.

[Hafnia]

 

 

Moyes is a far better manager than little ole wine drinking Howard.

 

Are you forgetting Kendall nearly took us down twice?

 

Give Moyes the same money Kendall had and I'm sure he'd have a wide smile. Heck, give Moyes the same team, and I'm sure he'd smile. One thing Moyes has to compete with that Kendall didn't is Billionaire owners.

If we gave Kendall the job Mike we'd be relegated, and you know it as much as me mate.

 

Kendall was our most succesful manager? Made some of the best signings in the clubs history. He never had an open cheque book. Managers barring a few notable exceptions have a shelf life at a club. Don't like Kendall as a person (met him and he was a grumpy prick, I was half way through blowing sunshine up his arse at a gentlemans dinner whilst getting an autograph and he snapped "just get on with it" - gutted) - but his everton career was excellent.

[Lowensda]

What Mark and Stev said!

[c1982]

 

So Moyes gets praise for his good work so we let him off with the bad.

Kendall doesnt get recignition for his good work and only gets called on for the bad?

 

Yes the situation is different at the club and has been from all three of Kendalls stints and Moyes stint. But when Moyes has a trophy cabinet to match our most successful manager I will then consider him as good as Kendall. Until then Kendall has his medals to keep him warm at night, Moyes just has £50 notes.

 

I love Moyes but this is an excellent point. Kendall remains the most successful manager in our history and even then we can look back and say what if.. re. Euro ban.

[Romey 1878]

 

Picture being in a Chess game, and every time you turn away, someone takes away one of your pieces, and not just pawns, but key pieces. Meanwhile, the opponents are being given 3 or 4 queens by rich owners, and instead of having the same amount of pieces to begin with, you realise that even before the game started, you only had half the line up of the other teams.

 

That is what Moyes faces.

 

We've not had a decade of misery, but a decade of enjoyable times, and only in the last few seasons have we fallen slightly, but look at the teams who finish above us, and look how much they have spent.

 

We still finished 7th last year. How exactly were we to compete with the money of City, Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs? We finished behind those teams. Take a look at their squads. We still finished above everybody else, and some of the teams below us also have rich owners.

 

Moyes is a legend.

 

 

No one's saying Moyes should have us at the top of the league competing with the moneybags of the league now, so I don't know why you're even bringing it up. And no one is saying it's not hard on Moyes that we've lost some players.

 

What the problem many fans have with Moyes is his decision making, his tactics, his use of what players he does have, his unwillingness to change. Money doesn't come into that.

 

When we finished fourth did we really have, on paper, a squad capable of finishing fourth? Did we like shite! We got there on hard work, on getting our tactics spot on etc etc. We may not be able to compete off the field with a lot of the sides in the Premier League but there is no excuse not to compete on the field. Yes, other teams may have better players than us but all I'm asking for the management to send the players out there with a belief that they can win against any one. But it just seems rightnow that Moyes has lost belief in his players, maybe in himself.

 

I love Moyes for everything he's given us, I really do, but that's the past and the present is that we're right in the shit. Him and his players are collectively responsible for our poor position in the league, and our mostly dire football, and they are collectively responsible for fixing that.