s-mackie Posted September 26, 2011 Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 He suggest people in general think we play shite football still, and we havent done in enough seasons for people to recognise we don't any more. Even the punditsacknowledge this now (even Phil Thomson and the 2 on MOTD, love the squirms on their face as they struggle to knock us anymore or that people know that their idiots and bitter when they do), although they took their sweet time to do so. I agree that, as you said, we have played some great football recently, but we have also played some equally dire football. For example the first half of the 09-10 season, parts of last season etc.. Yes people should realise that our football has improved since the Walter Smith/early Moyes years, but i think that the truly fantastic football has been few and far between. It was a time when we played at a high tempo and harried the opposition whilst having the flair players like Pienaar and a then in-form Arteta. Recently, not only did Pienaar leave and did Arteta lose his form, but we played slow, predictable football.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted September 26, 2011 Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 From my view, it looked like City were going to score at some point, it was more of a case of when. I dont think the Cahill 'stamp' changed anything, we werent offering any threat before that, and in fact our better chances came after he went off. City were more than good enough for the 3 points, despite being only average themselves. For me Cahill going off is the only reason they got belief to score, before that the match could have went on till Sunday and i doubt they would have found the net. They seemed terrified every time we went forward, especially when we got set pieces. Am usually shitting myself when teams attack, I blame Jags for that, but against city I thought we were doing well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s-mackie Posted September 26, 2011 Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 For me Cahill going off is the only reason they got belief to score, before that the match could have went on till Sunday and i doubt they would have found the net. They seemed terrified every time we went forward, especially when we got set pieces. Am usually shitting myself when teams attack, I blame Jags for that, but against city I thought we were doing well. See i was worried all throughout the game, I thought City looked the more likely to score all game even though we did frustrate them up until they actually did go on to score. The amount of time the ball was around our penalty area and we had to rely on blocks etc was unreal and we offered absolutely nothing in an attacking sense in my opinion, they looked comfortable when we came forward because we were often outnumbered.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanchesterCity Posted September 26, 2011 Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 All a matter of perception - from our point of view it looked like we couldn't break you down and it would be just our luck that you'd break and snatch one (exactly what Napoli did to us, and we played very well against them). I'm biased, but yes, it looked like we were the ones looking for the goal all day long, and we did have a couple of close chances, but you defended very solidly and I don't think we once got behind you (other than loose ball in the opening minutes to Dzeko). We got a lucky deflection (but you make your own luck right?) If you shoot enough times from those positions and you have so many men in the box, there's a fair chance you will get a deflection! I can't for the life of me see much negative in the way Everton played. Defensive, yes, but I don't see that as negative. Negative play (to my mind) is constant fouling, breaking the game up. Deciding to play Attack Vs Defence ain't negative! it's just bloody frustrating if you can't break the defence down. City did precisely the same last year away at Arsenal. We got lucky and snatched a draw (which at that point we were damn grateful for). The return match will be more interesting I think when both teams have a slightly better idea of where they stand in the table, and Everton (maybe) more likely to fancy attacking us. City are quite a decent team when the wind is blowing in the right direction, but there's at least 8 teams capable of beating us... hmm ALL teams could beat us, but I think you know what I mean. On a good day, Everton in all likelihood will be a top 1/3 team and to me that means most teams will say "tricky game this". Given you've lost players, and not got money to spend, I think that's a bloody good state of affairs. The only concern is how a ;good team' can get a couple of injuries and find themselves getting dragged into the bottom half of the table where it gets very messy very quickly - and that might be something that could happen to Everton. And, hate to mention finances again, but clubs will come sniffing around in January too, seeing who they can grab from you. If QPR come in with a cheeky bid for Leighton Baines, or Arsenal decide they fancy Jagielka... will Everton be able to hold out? A lot might depend on their league position at the time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted September 26, 2011 Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 I really dont see the need for 2 holding midfielders. Its almost Benitez-esque. When we have one player who is so good at dominating the middle of the park, it seems folly to dillute his responsibility. The whole point of having a defensive midfielder is to plug the gaps through the centre of defence and pick up those tricky players like Silva, Messi, Rooney that drop deep to pick the ball up. Having two players doing half that job isnt anywhere near as effective. It also means that when we get the ball, you tend to have two people standing side by side and not creating the angles to get the ball forward with ease. haha please dont compare Mourinhos tactics against Barca to ours against City! The only similarity is that they got people behind the ball when defending, but the way they defending with lots of pressing and organisation, along with quick fluid counters had no resemblance in anyway to us on Saturday. In them games it was Inter that had all the best chances because of the way they went from defence to attack. We just hoof it clear and hope Cahill and get somewhere near. I agree with the Beckford comments but you overlook a big difference to last year. Yes we set up similar. but we had Fellaini as the sole defensive midfielder (at least for the first half) with Cahill and Rodwell breaking forward fro midfield to support Vic. We went two goals up early playing positively, getting our foot on the ball and getting forward well. After about 20mins we gradually started sitting further and further back, swapping Vic & Cahill & Osman all over the show, lost our shape a little before half time, where we were a little lucky not to concede. Then 2nd half Vic was sent off and everyone was behind the ball, and we defended admirably and with Fellaini being the stand out. Our tactics to start that game were perfect for the squad we had. We pressured them all over the pitch, but we weakened as the game went on and sat further back. Im pretty sure I remember a few people complaining about the way we sat deep in the second half of that game (me being one) but we could afford to as we were 2 up. It finished 2-1 and City hit the post a couple of times. Surely you werent happy with the way we went about that game? Its understandable if we still provide an attacking threat, but for 80minutes we didnt. We lost 2-0 and didnt even have a go. I dont think Moyes had any other option, if we had tried to play open football aginst them I honestly think we would have been played off the park. In the event it took some poor refereeing and a lucky deflection to beat us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted September 26, 2011 Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 There was no way we were even looking anything like threatening city with a goal, to say that Cahill company incident threw it is blinkered. Total hoof ball, 10 men behind the ball, it was coming straight back at us. Their full backs were playing like wingers, in the match thread I posted it was only a matter of time and sure enough it was. You just can't set out like that and expect something from the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted September 27, 2011 Report Share Posted September 27, 2011 There was no way we were even looking anything like threatening city with a goal, to say that Cahill company incident threw it is blinkered. Total hoof ball, 10 men behind the ball, it was coming straight back at us. Their full backs were playing like wingers, in the match thread I posted it was only a matter of time and sure enough it was. You just can't set out like that and expect something from the game. It worked in our previous visits there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcus jones Posted September 27, 2011 Report Share Posted September 27, 2011 It worked in our previous visits there! And so Mancini being a clot, would'nt have worked out a plan to beat us? His tactical nous evolved while our stood still, sorry pal but managers are quick to work out and try different things. Can ours? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted September 27, 2011 Report Share Posted September 27, 2011 Moyes will destroy Liverpool on Saturday and be everybody's hero again. Mancini's tactical nous didn't evolve much tonight, so enough said. I can't believe it's derby week and everyone is talking about Mancini. Screw him. We'll get him next time. Let's sort King Kenny out first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted September 27, 2011 Report Share Posted September 27, 2011 Moyes will destroy Liverpool on Saturday and be everybody's hero again. Mancini's tactical nous didn't evolve much tonight, so enough said. I can't believe it's derby week and everyone is talking about Mancini. Screw him. We'll get him next time. Let's sort King Kenny out first. city struggled against a team that attacked, Gave the full backs something to deal with and therefore scored a couple, who knows even we may have given them something to deal with unless you think our players are crap? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFC-Paul Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 city struggled against a team that attacked, Gave the full backs something to deal with and therefore scored a couple, who knows even we may have given them something to deal with unless you think our players are crap? I agree mate Moyes set that team out to sit back and take hits, it's Moyes's biggest downfall for me being so negative and tactically inept I hate this lets settle for a draw mentality. Either way if we are set up and play like that against the shite we'll be passing three points up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 Get Rodders to do the man marking on suarez, other than that I would have vellios up front with cahill to give their iffy defence something to contend with. Start with drenthe on the left as they have no right back at present, any time they have been up against pace they have struggled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 I like the look of Vellios, but Moyes will probably go with experienced players. I hope he gets a go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 I like the look of Vellios, but Moyes will probably go with experienced players. I hope he gets a go. There lies the problem, we haven't got anyone with experience upfront barring Saha. For me the derby will be a little heavy footed for Louis, Vellios looks like he can put himself around and do far more defending from the front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 There lies the problem, we haven't got anyone with experience upfront barring Saha. For me the derby will be a little heavy footed for Louis, Vellios looks like he can put himself around and do far more defending from the front. I'm still none the wiser about our new striker from Argentina. He must have something to be top scorer in that league. Vellios looks up for it, and Moyes may want to make amends for last weeks performance by going for it. Who knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 I'm still none the wiser about our new striker from Argentina. He must have something to be top scorer in that league. Vellios looks up for it, and Moyes may want to make amends for last weeks performance by going for it. Who knows. You are joking, right? Gawd you are joking arn't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 You are joking, right? Gawd you are joking arn't you? No, not this time lol. I anticipate lots of goals and possession. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 I'm still none the wiser about our new striker from Argentina. He must have something to be top scorer in that league. Vellios looks up for it, and Moyes may want to make amends for last weeks performance by going for it. Who knows. Looks a right handful, and imo he should play on Saturday, because Carragher, whether reds like it or not is a liability. He's prone to conceeding a penalty. Once he gets annoyed, frustrated or beaten, he starts to hack and pull all over the place. That being the case, get Straq on and be a pain in his ass. If Cahill plays too, then that's two of our front men, causing the oppositions defence difficulties...without technically being a handful in the ability sense. that will then allow our midfield (and Bainesy) to get around or through their backline with more effect. Saha plays with his back to defenders, he plays the ball in front of him, away from goal which allows Defensive mids to come back and challenge him. Get straq turning a his man like he did against WestBrom, and you'll see mistakes appearing along their backline. That's how i would approach the game anyway. I'd like Howard Hibbert Heitinga Distin Baines Fellaini Rodwell Coleman Osman Straq Cahill I realise people don't like the idea of Ossie on the wing back as someone who can work with baines on the overlap, it's one of very few options. However i think we'll see: Howard Hibbert Jags Distin Baines Heitinga Neville Coleman Osman Fellaini Cahill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 Like to see Straq and Vellios together. Brings back memories of the old RAF (Rideout and Ferguson for the youngsters amongst you) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 Like to see Straq and Vellios together. Brings back memories of the old RAF (Rideout and Ferguson for the youngsters amongst you) That partnership was flying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 That partnership was flying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 Phil McNulty tweet... 'If Moyes could take praise from his peers to the bank Everton would be richest club in Britain. Pardew says "one of the best in the world"' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oztoffee Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 Phil McNulty tweet... 'If Moyes could take praise from his peers to the bank Everton would be richest club in Britain. Pardew says "one of the best in the world"' OK...so how come we're in the bottom five again? 'We always start badly.' OK.... so why hasn't the problem been fixed? We've seen this for years. The team is basically the same at the end of the season as it was at the start! There is something radically wrong in what Moyes is doing at the season start then. 'We don't have the players' Many on here reckon we have the players.....it's what Moyes does with them that is the difference. Misplaced loyalty to out-of -form players, leaving top players on the bench until it's too late to make a difference, playing players out of position rather than bring in someone young and fresh....etc. etc. We've all discussed this for years, but nothing changes. My belief is that Moyes is in many respects the author of his own demise.....too reliant on trying to repeat past successes with old tactics and old ideas. Some team selections and substitutions beggar belief. When we criticise players we must not forget that they are playing to the managers instructions. Ossie out wide? ......blame the boss! Rodwell ineffective in a holding role?......blame the boss! The players are doing a job. If the manager selects them in an unfamiliar role they can hardly be blamed for not turning in a top performance. Time for Moyes to go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 OK...so how come we're in the bottom five again? 'We always start badly.' OK.... so why hasn't the problem been fixed? We've seen this for years. The team is basically the same at the end of the season as it was at the start! There is something radically wrong in what Moyes is doing at the season start then. 'We don't have the players' Many on here reckon we have the players.....it's what Moyes does with them that is the difference. Misplaced loyalty to out-of -form players, leaving top players on the bench until it's too late to make a difference, playing players out of position rather than bring in someone young and fresh....etc. etc. We've all discussed this for years, but nothing changes. My belief is that Moyes is in many respects the author of his own demise.....too reliant on trying to repeat past successes with old tactics and old ideas. Some team selections and substitutions beggar belief. When we criticise players we must not forget that they are playing to the managers instructions. Ossie out wide? ......blame the boss! Rodwell ineffective in a holding role?......blame the boss! The players are doing a job. If the manager selects them in an unfamiliar role they can hardly be blamed for not turning in a top performance. Time for Moyes to go? A bit knee jerky don't you think? We've fallen down the pecking order as teams above us have spent a fortune, and we've lost key players. A few mediocre seasons follow on from our best period of football in 25 years and you want to sack a guy who's only major crime is to have no cash? Moyes isn't the problem, and sacking him isn't the solution. We all think we can do better where picking a team is concerned, but most of us, including you, would have a sharp wake up call if we had to do it for real. He deserves all the time he needs. There are plenty other teams to support if we're that desperate for trophies. It's a game. Moyes is the epitome of everything I like about football, and he's a damn nice guy too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oztoffee Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 A bit knee jerky don't you think Perhaps not Avinalaff. This has been an ongoing saga for probably 3 years now - same problems, no solutions. By the way, I had a question mark after 'Time for Moyes to go?' This was to try to stimulate some meaningful discussion on the subject. It really does seem that Moyes has almost as many fans as he does detractors. You say 'he's a damn nice guy too'. If you've met him, perhaps you could give us some insight into the man. I for one would be glad to read it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 im sure he is nice, but im bored to death of us being nice. everton are the nice guys of the prem, everyone likes plucky old everton! i want everton to be hated, teams who are hated are feared by other teams, get more decisions. we dont badger the ref, we are polite and stand back, we've even seen our wall at free kicks moved forwards by the ref before. while other clubs cloud the ref and get decisions. everyone likes a crewe or a southampton, while united and chelsea are hated they pick up the medals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 im sure he is nice, but im bored to death of us being nice. everton are the nice guys of the prem, everyone likes plucky old everton! i want everton to be hated, teams who are hated are feared by other teams, get more decisions. we dont badger the ref, we are polite and stand back, we've even seen our wall at free kicks moved forwards by the ref before. while other clubs cloud the ref and get decisions. everyone likes a crewe or a southampton, while united and chelsea are hated they pick up the medals. This. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonButtle Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 A bit knee jerky don't you think? We've fallen down the pecking order as teams above us have spent a fortune, and we've lost key players. A few mediocre seasons follow on from our best period of football in 25 years and you want to sack a guy who's only major crime is to have no cash? Moyes isn't the problem, and sacking him isn't the solution. We all think we can do better where picking a team is concerned, but most of us, including you, would have a sharp wake up call if we had to do it for real. He deserves all the time he needs. There are plenty other teams to support if we're that desperate for trophies. It's a game. Moyes is the epitome of everything I like about football, and he's a damn nice guy too. what? so you like the negative, square pegs in round holes type of game then Avin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 This. thanks J, much appreciated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 im sure he is nice, but im bored to death of us being nice. everton are the nice guys of the prem, everyone likes plucky old everton! i want everton to be hated, teams who are hated are feared by other teams, get more decisions. we dont badger the ref, we are polite and stand back, we've even seen our wall at free kicks moved forwards by the ref before. while other clubs cloud the ref and get decisions. everyone likes a crewe or a southampton, while united and chelsea are hated they pick up the medals. This is very true, but I'd prefer the referees upped their performance and forced behaviour, than us stoop to their petty level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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