StevO Posted September 11, 2011 Report Share Posted September 11, 2011 If someone could just agree to buy out Bill, how long would Woods and Earl stay on the board for before they would sell their share for a cut down price. If I had a spare few mill that would be my point of attack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 Seeing as we have a few threads for "EFC and Selling" thought this article could go here. http://www.toffeeweb.com/season/11-12/comment/mailbag/18973.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 and at the same moment.... http://www.sos1878.co.uk/everton-news/bu-statement-protest-march-a-resounding-success/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 Are we now to refer to them as the Boo Union ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 I think the club had the fishing rod out also... What was the point in showing kenwright on the screen in the game? A boo vs cheer contest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 just as much point as booing him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 just as much point as booing him That's the point marco. The game was in play, it was about getting behind the team, not bringing in personal opinions of kenwright. The march was done, time to get behind team, if we were 3-0 down they wouldn't have done it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 no one would have cheered him if on one had booed..the guys who were commentating on the game must have been talking about him so it goes to him..just like it does if you're watching a match on sky if it talks about the owner/manager/player the camera tends to pan to them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 no one would have cheered him if on one had booed..the guys who were commentating on the game must have been talking about him so it goes to him..just like it does if you're watching a match on sky if it talks about the owner/manager/player the camera tends to pan to them Correct me if I'm wrong, the in stadium footage is done by the club? If so it was poor judgement. If it was done Independantly fair enough but the club should try and encourage that not to happen, meanwhile earl and woods get off scot free too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 I think the club had the fishing rod out also... What was the point in showing kenwright on the screen in the game? A boo vs cheer contest? apparently the feed on the big screen comes from the broadcasting company, not the club, so we cant accuse the board of anything here. It was a neutral party who put the image up and the voices spoke for themselves. That moment wasnt (just) about getting behind the team, it was the vast majority of Goodison supporting their chairman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 Correct me if I'm wrong, the in stadium footage is done by the club? If so it was poor judgement. If it was done Independantly fair enough but the club should try and encourage that not to happen, meanwhile earl and woods get off scot free too... I'd have thought the club use the BBC feed....duplicate camera crews all over the ground would be a ridiculous expense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 Genuine question here; how long has it been the done thing to applaud failure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 Genuine question here; how long has it been the done thing to applaud failure? You mean the stable club competing at the right end of the table, best (albeit smallest) squad weve had in how long? Record deals both and off the pitch? I think this is whats being applauded. You are right, the board have screwed up a couple of times but despite that we are still one of the most sucessful clubs (4th i read somewhere) in England. We all know the pros and cons of this board, but I think "applauding failure" is a little harsh, makes it sound like theyve never done anything right. One more thing, I really think people are not getting the impact of getting 13.2m off the wage bill each year - based on last years numbers and this regression we will be looking at turning a profit, 5-7m a year. That alone will help sell the club. We are in this situation (amongst other reasons) because the board broke their rules on wage structure (showing ambition as its sometimes referred to) and suffered for it, because we didnt win anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 I'd hardly say we're a stable club when we're having to keep the banks at bay, how could that possibly be the sign of stability? Competing at the right end of the table yes, but this is all on the pitch and where the board have failed is off the pitch. And failed miserably. Record deals they may be but they're hardly anything to shout about are they? Infact, when you look at them they're pretty shit as StevO has pointed out in regards to the Kitbag deal elsewhere. I booed Kenwright when they put his face on the big screen and every time they do it I'll boo him, it's the only way I have to show my displeasure at the man. That being said, it's not fair that the invisible men Woods and Earl get off scot free. They're probably worse than Kenwright because they actually do have money. So credit has to go to Kenwright for still showing his face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 (edited) I'd hardly say we're a stable club when we're having to keep the banks at bay, how could that possibly be the sign of stability? won't the arteta sale and drop in wage bill make us stable now? they tried to get us to compete and win things as matt said by breaking wage structures to try and make us a more successful club and the players failed on the pitch..i don't know enough about finances to get too deep into it but it seems simple to me that the club will be stable now after the gamble backfired Edited September 12, 2011 by marcopaulo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 won't the arteta sale and drop in wage bill make us stable now? they tried to get us to compete and win things as matt said by breaking wage structures to try and make us a more successful club and the players failed on the pitch..i don't know enough about finances to get too deep into it but it seems simple to me that the club will be stable now after the gamble backfired I suppose it's about a waiting game now. Let's see what happens in January and next summer, maybe we'll finally buy a player and that will answer the question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 (edited) I'd hardly say we're a stable club when we're having to keep the banks at bay, how could that possibly be the sign of stability? Competing at the right end of the table yes, but this is all on the pitch and where the board have failed is off the pitch. And failed miserably. Record deals they may be but they're hardly anything to shout about are they? Infact, when you look at them they're pretty shit as StevO has pointed out in regards to the Kitbag deal elsewhere. I booed Kenwright when they put his face on the big screen and every time they do it I'll boo him, it's the only way I have to show my displeasure at the man. That being said, it's not fair that the invisible men Woods and Earl get off scot free. They're probably worse than Kenwright because they actually do have money. So credit has to go to Kenwright for still showing his face. taking the numbers that were published (theyre on here somewhere too): 2010/11 Income = 80m Outgoing = 85m Assuming same income 80m Outgoing 85 - 13m = 72m. No idea if we are picking up Denis and Drenthes wages so lets say its 10m a year of the wage bill. Thats 5m a year profit. Sounds stable to me. Biggest mistake they made in since Kings Dock was giving Arteta a bumper payrise; it was a stupid, unjustified move brought on by this false ideal that spending = ambition. It doesnt, finishing positions equal ambition and no amount of money can guarantee that. Record deals, despite not being world breaking deals are guaranteed profit, which considering the global economy is a damn smart move. Edited September 12, 2011 by Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 I think the club had the fishing rod out also... What was the point in showing kenwright on the screen in the game? A boo vs cheer contest? That was down to the BBC and had nothing to do with the club apparently http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/everton-fc/everton-fc-news/2011/09/12/tim-cahill-hails-everton-fc-fans-applause-for-chairman-bill-kenwright-100252-29404171/ "The images on the Goodison screens are chosen by the host broadcaster – on Saturday the BBC – independent of Everton officials." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 All clubs are in debt. It's not like the grass is any greener. I don't look upon Kenwright as a failure at all. I've enjoyed us playing in Europe, competing at the top, and the Wembley experience it gave many fans. We have a great manager, and probably a team not so long ago that I would argue was the best team since the league winning side. Our attendances are up, and we've had record signings and record turnover. I think we'll get in Europe again soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 You mean the stable club competing at the right end of the table, best (albeit smallest) squad weve had in how long? Record deals both and off the pitch? I think this is whats being applauded. You are right, the board have screwed up a couple of times but despite that we are still one of the most sucessful clubs (4th i read somewhere) in England. We all know the pros and cons of this board, but I think "applauding failure" is a little harsh, makes it sound like theyve never done anything right. One more thing, I really think people are not getting the impact of getting 13.2m off the wage bill each year - based on last years numbers and this regression we will be looking at turning a profit, 5-7m a year. That alone will help sell the club. We are in this situation (amongst other reasons) because the board broke their rules on wage structure (showing ambition as its sometimes referred to) and suffered for it, because we didnt win anything. Seriously admire your staunch defence of Kenwright, but using the word stability is wrong. He had opportunities to make us stable and failed, the biggest and only one that needs mentioning is Kings Dock. It was the Devon Loch of Kenwrights tenure Giving Arteta a pay rise was greeted with unbelievable joy - we thought he was a goner and would be playing for Man City. Yes £70k was a good wedge and he didn't live up to that billing, but all the comments above are trying to paint the fire sale as prudent as opposed to desperation. Taking the amount of money we have done off the wage bill has been at a cost of stripping our playing staff of talent. What's next? Baines and Fellaini aren't going to be happy earning half what they could elsewhere? are we to sell them and hope that the replacements offer the same quality for less? Totally unsustainable model - stability? No chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 All clubs are in debt. It's not like the grass is any greener. I don't look upon Kenwright as a failure at all. I've enjoyed us playing in Europe, competing at the top, and the Wembley experience it gave many fans. We have a great manager, and probably a team not so long ago that I would argue was the best team since the league winning side. Our attendances are up, and we've had record signings and record turnover. I think we'll get in Europe again soon. Europe? With an 18 man squad with no fit recognised strikers at present??? We will struggle to compete in the league alone with those numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 Genuine question here; how long has it been the done thing to applaud failure? I applauded him to show him that the vast majority of fans dont agree with the abuse he has been receiving from the Bufoon Union As it happens I dont beleive his tenure has been a failure. When he took over we had an ageing squad full of players way past their best such as Gascoigne and Ginola that was constantly flirting with relegation, and it was only a matter of time before we would have lost that particular battle. Now we have a squad full of young internationals with their best years ahead of them and we are challenging for Europe every year. Doesnt sound much like a failure to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 (edited) Correct me if I'm wrong, the in stadium footage is done by the club? If so it was poor judgement. If it was done Independantly fair enough but the club should try and encourage that not to happen, meanwhile earl and woods get off scot free too... in this country that is run by sky on behalf of the FA. edit: i see above it was the Beeb, i thought it was sky here. ah well, still not the club. Record deals, despite not being world breaking deals are guaranteed profit, which considering the global economy is a damn smart move. they are records for us but poor compared to the likes of spurs and villa who we are trying to compete with. a smarter move, in my opinion, would have been to do the deal over three years and see how it goes. or have stipulations, for example, as we have a £3m guarantee they make any other profits, how about if the profit margin gets to £4m we split any additional. that way if we grow we could get some back. I applauded him to show him that the vast majority of fans dont agree with the abuse he has been receiving from the Bufoon Union As it happens I dont beleive his tenure has been a failure. When he took over we had an ageing squad full of players way past their best such as Gascoigne and Ginola that was constantly flirting with relegation, and it was only a matter of time before we would have lost that particular battle. Now we have a squad full of young internationals with their best years ahead of them and we are challenging for Europe every year. Doesnt sound much like a failure to me i disagree that we have been challenging for europe. i dont doubt the squad has improved since bill has come in, it is the financial mess it has left the club in and the poorly planned asset sale. selling something for £10m and buying it back for £50m just scares the shit out of me! Edited September 12, 2011 by StevO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 Seriously admire your staunch defence of Kenwright, but using the word stability is wrong. He had opportunities to make us stable and failed, the biggest and only one that needs mentioning is Kings Dock. It was the Devon Loch of Kenwrights tenure Giving Arteta a pay rise was greeted with unbelievable joy - we thought he was a goner and would be playing for Man City. Yes £70k was a good wedge and he didn't live up to that billing, but all the comments above are trying to paint the fire sale as prudent as opposed to desperation. Taking the amount of money we have done off the wage bill has been at a cost of stripping our playing staff of talent. What's next? Baines and Fellaini aren't going to be happy earning half what they could elsewhere? are we to sell them and hope that the replacements offer the same quality for less? Totally unsustainable model - stability? No chance. I accepted over and over again that the board and BK screwed up majorly with Kings Dock, wont argue with you there. However, he and the board should be recognized for the good they have done also, which outweighs Kings Dock. I wanted Arteta to go, I was not happy with his new contract because i dont think he earned it. I think the people who celebrated this were afraid of change (how ironic) or thought that ambition came in $$$ rather than performances. Stripping our playing staff of talent?! Yak and Arteta had done nothing for 2 years (both living on a season or 2 of brilliance and never recovering to that standard), Yobo had done nothing for 3+ years.... Sounds like cutting off the dead wood to me. Some of the 5m profit i mentioned could be put towards securing Felli (with Baines and Jags already on new long term contracts). Can you please explain to me now, regardless of the past, this is not now a stable club. I applauded him to show him that the vast majority of fans dont agree with the abuse he has been receiving from the Bufoon Union As it happens I dont beleive his tenure has been a failure. When he took over we had an ageing squad full of players way past their best such as Gascoigne and Ginola that was constantly flirting with relegation, and it was only a matter of time before we would have lost that particular battle. Now we have a squad full of young internationals with their best years ahead of them and we are challenging for Europe every year. Doesnt sound much like a failure to me 100% agree. they are records for us but poor compared to the likes of spurs and villa who we are trying to compete with. a smarter move, in my opinion, would have been to do the deal over three years and see how it goes. or have stipulations, for example, as we have a £3m guarantee they make any other profits, how about if the profit margin gets to £4m we split any additional. that way if we grow we could get some back. So? Spurs and Villa will get a bit more money, they'll sod all with it performance wise. Spurs are doing what we did 7 years ago and will be in the same position - despite their deals they could afford 1 player for 5m and he is a 30yr old who will get another 2-3 more seasons. Im also guessing theyve both got insane wage bills which will cripple them eventually. Maybe Kitbag couldve been negotiated a bit better, as you suggest. But this "well theyve got a better one than us" is like asking for a car, getting a 911 Porsche (which you should be extremely grateful to have considering you had Austin Allegro with a leaking fuel tank before) then pointing at people who have a Bugatti and complaining! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 how spurs and villa spend that money on the playing squad to effect performance is down to their management and their playing staff not their board, the case is their board have put them in with a chance due to being a bit more savy with their deals. the kitbag deal could and should have been negotiated better thou matt. with interest as it has been and football finances going through the roof, tying in for ten years is just short sighted. regardless of other peoples deals, this is not a good one. it is only good compared to what was a very bad deal with JJB previous. if someone like me can see the short sightedness (i do have to work to budgets and generate profits and better deals for my company but im no finance expert) people who are paid handsomely to bring in money have dropped a long term clanger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 i disagree that we have been challenging for europe. i dont doubt the squad has improved since bill has come in, it is the financial mess it has left the club in and the poorly planned asset sale. selling something for £10m and buying it back for £50m just scares the shit out of me! Really????? Then what happened in 2004/05 , 2006/07, 2007/08, 2008/09 ? We also finished 7th in 2002/03 and 2010/11 and 8th in 2009/10 so I would say we have very much been challenging for Europe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2011/08/23/premier-league-shirt-deals-surge-to-117-5m-on-back-of-citys-etihad-uplift/ People seem to think the board have done so badly yet these figures show that we have the 8th best shirt sponsorship in the Premiership, is that really so bad? Add that to the latest sponsorship deals with Best Buy, Crabbies and 188Bet plus the business they have just done in the last window and then the debt suddenly doesnt look so bad. There are plenty of Premiership clubs who are in even more debt than us http://www.myfootballfacts.com/PremierLeagueFinances.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 Europe? With an 18 man squad with no fit recognised strikers at present??? We will struggle to compete in the league alone with those numbers. Lol Haf. I think I need to spend some time sat on your shoulder and whisper sweet positives in your shell like instead of listening to that devil you have sat there. The future is bright - the future is Erikson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted September 13, 2011 Report Share Posted September 13, 2011 Lol Haf. I think I need to spend some time sat on your shoulder and whisper sweet positives in your shell like instead of listening to that devil you have sat there. The future is bright - the future is Erikson. Forgive me for thinking it, the cover we have is minimal. It feels like setting off on a 200 bike bike ride without a puncture repair kit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted September 13, 2011 Report Share Posted September 13, 2011 (edited) taking the numbers that were published (theyre on here somewhere too): 2010/11 Income = 80m Outgoing = 85m Assuming same income 80m Outgoing 85 - 13m = 72m. No idea if we are picking up Denis and Drenthes wages so lets say its 10m a year of the wage bill. Thats 5m a year profit. Sounds stable to me. Biggest mistake they made in since Kings Dock was giving Arteta a bumper payrise; it was a stupid, unjustified move brought on by this false ideal that spending = ambition. It doesnt, finishing positions equal ambition and no amount of money can guarantee that. Record deals, despite not being world breaking deals are guaranteed profit, which considering the global economy is a damn smart move. But the fact that we had to sell players so we could survive shows how unstable we are Matt, the mere fact that it was necessary shows what a precarious position we are in. You're acting like the board should be congratulated for selling players to get them off the wage bill to make us more comfortable when the truth is they had no other option! You then mention later on that the £5million saved in wages could go towards giving Fellaini increased wages on a new contract. But we do that and then we're right back to where we found ourselves this summer and we'll have to ship players out, make our squad smaller and have no way of bringing players in again. Stability? My fucking arse. These record deals are rubbish. They show no forward thinking whatsoever, it's been all about getting money in as fast as possible with no thought. That doesn't show stability either. Elstone should be strung up for some of the deals he's concluded since come in, not lauded. Edited September 13, 2011 by Romey 1878 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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