Protest prior to Aston Villa game

[milky71]

 

then i'll kindly ignore your further posts.

 

 

 

haha if you wish to look at the way your other 300 posts have been met, when did you last have a good day?

 

 

Everydays a goodday now stick to your guns and ignore me

[Hafnia]

 

Not a good day for you mate

 

You just keep looking for the crumbs of technicalities with your head buried in all that sand.

[toptoffee]

 

I'd love to respond but I really haven't got a clue what you are trying to say

 

What im trying to say is football fans are in no position to comment on how the finances of a football club is run and what is/isnt the best move for us. Protesting and booing does little but upset the players and effects results.

[MTK]

For what it's worth, my opinion is BK deserved his applause yesterday. He has done a lot for this club and deserves his place in our clubs history. Where would we be if he hadn't done the work he did to take the ownership away from Peter Johnson? That's why I clapped over the boo's - if there had been no boo's I doubt I would have done anything.

 

I want a new owner ASAP - a owner who can take us forward, help propel us to the next level... but so does Bill! It's a catch 22 situation, I think Bill wants to sell to the perfect owner because he's a fan and maybe he's being too cautious with regard to a Lerner type buyer, or Bill wants to sell to someone who will keep him as part of the team (which may not neccessarily be such a bad thing).

 

Regardless of who we get to sell us Kenwright will have the final say. He doesn't deserve some of the abuse he's getting, he and Moyes have helped raise the expectations of the fans in their time here. I think Bill has held on too long and missed some excellent opportunities (Kings Dock being the main one) but I still think he wants the best for the club in the long run and will do what he can while he is in charge.

 

Problem is, how long can we continue to sell off assets to pay off the interest we owe on the loans we took out to pay for the losses we made each year. Particularly when we still appear to be making a loss. Can we afford for Bill to be rejecting investors like Lerner simply because Randy is not as big a fan as Bill is?

[StevO]

 

What im trying to say is football fans are in no position to comment on how the finances of a football club is run and what is/isnt the best move for us. Protesting and booing does little but upset the players and effects results.

 

do football fans not run companies? do they not work in finance? do they dont understand balance sheets?

 

at no point has the protest been against the players, and the booing has not been against the players (apart from when they have played shite) so why will it have effected the players or results?

[toptoffee]

For what it's worth, my opinion is BK deserved his applause yesterday. He has done a lot for this club and deserves his place in our clubs history. Where would we be if he hadn't done the work he did to take the ownership away from Peter Johnson? That's why I clapped over the boo's - if there had been no boo's I doubt I would have done anything.

 

I want a new owner ASAP - a owner who can take us forward, help propel us to the next level... but so does Bill! It's a catch 22 situation, I think Bill wants to sell to the perfect owner because he's a fan and maybe he's being too cautious with regard to a Lerner type buyer, or Bill wants to sell to someone who will keep him as part of the team (which may not neccessarily be such a bad thing).

 

Regardless of who we get to sell us Kenwright will have the final say. He doesn't deserve some of the abuse he's getting, he and Moyes have helped raise the expectations of the fans in their time here. I think Bill has held on too long and missed some excellent opportunities (Kings Dock being the main one) but I still think he wants the best for the club in the long run and will do what he can while he is in charge.

 

 

Couldnt agree more

[MTK]

 

What im trying to say is football fans are in no position to comment on how the finances of a football club is run and what is/isnt the best move for us. Protesting and booing does little but upset the players and effects results.

 

Actually there are many people very well qualified to comment on the finances of clubs. Have a read of Swiss Ramble & AndersRed amongst others. Every single one of them will tell you that the business model of the club is unsustainable & will soon lead to bankruptcy.

 

And drop the "I'm just a simple man, what would I know" deference. That's how the Tories get voted in

[toptoffee]

 

do football fans not run companies? do they not work in finance? do they dont understand balance sheets?

 

at no point has the protest been against the players, and the booing has not been against the players (apart from when they have played shite) so why will it have effected the players or results?

 

 

On the main part no they dont. I myself have a business and think the finances of a football club is beyond me. And no its not aimed at the players but it gets through to them. Like Timmy mentioned in his post match interview its clearly on his mind.

[c1982]

 

Problem is, how long can we continue to sell off assets to pay off the interest we owe on the loans we took out to pay for the losses we made each year. Particularly when we still appear to be making a loss. Can we afford for Bill to be rejecting investors like Lerner simply because Randy is not as big a fan as Bill is?

 

Nothing to do with a future owner being a fan.

 

Our problem lies with GP not making enough money through coporate revenues (in my opinion). The current owners are trying to address this with the development behind Park End which I pressume is still going ahead eventually? Do we know Lerner was going to buy us a new stadium? Is that what Bill's holding out for - someone who will promise us that?

[StevO]

 

 

On the main part no they dont. I myself have a business and think the finances of a football club is beyond me. And no its not aimed at the players but it gets through to them. Like Timmy mentioned in his post match interview its clearly on his mind.

 

on the main part no they dont? how can you possibly know what people do for a living? there are many successful evertonians who run very successful companies, we have millionaire fans who have done it from the ground up and understand business. we have fans who run construction companies, who run house building firms. we arent just thugs who sit in a pub and shout at the match.

 

of course its on the players minds, they see the squad shinking every year. how do you think that makes them feel?

if you work with 30 people, then next year 28, then 25, then 24. think it helps?

 

 

Nothing to do with a future owner being a fan.

 

Our problem lies with GP not making enough money through coporate revenues (in my opinion). The current owners are trying to address this with the development behind Park End which I pressume is still going ahead eventually? Do we know Lerner was going to buy us a new stadium? Is that what Bill's holding out for - someone who will promise us that?

 

we dont even sell out our current corp seats. if we cant sell 8 boxes, there is no point having 30. even our lounges havent been filled for years. take a look in the exec box at the wigan game.

we cant rely on corp sales to fix anything.

Edited September 11, 2011 by StevO

[toptoffee]

 

on the main part no they dont? how can you possibly know what people do for a living? there are many successful evertonians who run very successful companies, we have millionaire fans who have done it from the ground up and understand business. we have fans who run construction companies, who run house building firms. we arent just thugs who sit in a pub and shout at the match.

 

of course its on the players minds, they see the squad shinking every year. how do you think that makes them feel?

if you work with 30 people, then next year 28, then 25, then 24. think it helps?

 

 

Not for one minute do I think that. One thing is unanamous we ALL want kenwright out but it has to be to the right buyers. With cash and not just a good credit rating.

 

No it doesnt help and what your saying is right but the players ultimately look to the fans for support when things are shit. It couldnt be good for morale hearing one half of goodison boo and the other applaude. When we are all getting away from the fact we looked great yesterday!

[c1982]

we dont even sell out our current corp seats. if we cant sell 8 boxes, there is no point having 30. even our lounges havent been filled for years. take a look in the exec box at the wigan game.

we cant rely on corp sales to fix anything.

 

I'd imaging the boxes are bought by companies/sponsors for the season - so it makes no difference if people are in them, they're still paid for.

 

It's not just match day where coporate facilities make money. If you look into what happens at other clubs on non-match days you will see how important modern and plentiful coporate facilities are.

[StevO]

 

 

Not for one minute do I think that. One thing is unanamous we ALL want kenwright out but it has to be to the right buyers. With cash and not just a good credit rating.

 

No it doesnt help and what your saying is right but the players ultimately look to the fans for support when things are shit. It couldnt be good for morale hearing one half of goodison boo and the other applaude. When we are all getting away from the fact we looked great yesterday!

 

but they will know the booing isnt aimed at them, they know whats going on so they know who it was aimed at. the fans were behind the players.

 

if we looked that great we would have had 3 points, we looked ok, certainly bettter than the other league games so far this season.

[toptoffee]

 

but they will know the booing isnt aimed at them, they know whats going on so they know who it was aimed at. the fans were behind the players.

 

if we looked that great we would have had 3 points, we looked ok, certainly bettter than the other league games so far this season.

 

Agreed, but it does create a feeling of unrest..

 

A lot better and if we can get going quick this season we will look in good shape for the rest.

[StevO]

 

I'd imaging the boxes are bought by companies/sponsors for the season - so it makes no difference if people are in them, they're still paid for.

 

It's not just match day where coporate facilities make money. If you look into what happens at other clubs on non-match days you will see how important modern and plentiful coporate facilities are.

 

but they arent sold out mate. you can go down to goodison today and buy one for this season, they are not sold.

none match days will be really difficult in this city, the amount of hotels with great facilities is huge, and the echo arena has great facilities too. its a swamped market. we dont have the prestige to bring in the massive corps. we will be able to get some more money in on non-match days but not the millions we need.

we could have cleaned up on this with the kings dock, but no point in what ifs.

but i do agree we need to improve them, but dont put too much hope into the difference it can make.

[Avinalaff]

 

 

Not for one minute do I think that. One thing is unanamous we ALL want kenwright out but it has to be to the right buyers. With cash and not just a good credit rating.

 

No it doesnt help and what your saying is right but the players ultimately look to the fans for support when things are shit. It couldnt be good for morale hearing one half of goodison boo and the other applaude. When we are all getting away from the fact we looked great yesterday!

 

Please speak for yourselves when stating opinion.

 

We 'all' have different opinions, and certainly don't 'all' want Kenright out.

[StevO]

 

Agreed, but it does create a feeling of unrest..

 

A lot better and if we can get going quick this season we will look in good shape for the rest.

 

i agree with that, there will be unrest.

fingers crossed the injuries will stay away and give us a fighting chance.

[toptoffee]

 

Please speak for yourselves when stating opinion.

 

We 'all' have different opinions, and certainly don't 'all' want Kenright out.

 

I apologise. But your the first person I haver heard say that..

 

Whats your opinion on what he can do to make the financial situation better? Instead of selling..

[MikeO]

We 'all' have different opinions, and certainly don't 'all' want Kenright out.

Even Kenwright wants Kenwright out .

 

Why would you want him to stay against his wishes?

[c1982]

but they arent sold out mate. you can go down to goodison today and buy one for this season, they are not sold.

 

I would imagine they would though if they were top notch facilities.

[StevO]

 

I would imagine they would though if they were top notch facilities.

 

have a look for yourself http://www.evertonfc.com/exec?page=lounges

our lounges are great, the food is great, the service is exceptional, ive been lucky enough with work and with family/company friends to experience them.

but they dont sell. just look at the first 20 or so rows in the middle of the main stand on a match day, see how many empty seats there are.

you can use the lounges for parties and weddings, and they do well at christmas time for parties and summer for weddings, but inbetween there isnt much interest.

[MTK]

 

I would imagine they would though if they were top notch facilities.

 

I know a company that ran an event at Everton and hated it. Now to be fair this was 4 years ago but they said that the rooms were dreadful, internet facilities didn't work properly & that when they parked their cars the staff warned them that there was a good chance on being broken into. I think a fair few of these problems have been fixed & matchday hospitality does well in the industry awards (for what those are worth) but location is a big problem. People spending that type of money want a really good reason to spend it in L4

[Avinalaff]

 

I apologise. But your the first person I haver heard say that..

 

Whats your opinion on what he can do to make the financial situation better? Instead of selling..

 

Sometimes you have to see the man, and not the Chairman.

 

It would take an enormous post in which to explain why I would prefer Kenwright at the helm, and I think I've taken steps over the past month towards doing the same, only in little segments, so no need to summarize just yet.

 

I think a lot of opinions come from lots of backgrounds, and not all of them are football, or business related.

 

Football is about passion, and not always about right or wrong.

 

If we could choose between an Arab / Sheikh Billionaire (nothing against Arabs) , or a Kenwright Billionaire, how many would want the Arab?

 

I don't get this 'get lost because you're skint' attitude many fans have. They don't have the club at heart, only their own ego's, that should be fullfilled by their own lives, and not have their hopes rest on the shoulders of a football club.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

For what it's worth, my opinion is BK deserved his applause yesterday. He has done a lot for this club and deserves his place in our clubs history. Where would we be if he hadn't done the work he did to take the ownership away from Peter Johnson? That's why I clapped over the boo's - if there had been no boo's I doubt I would have done anything.

 

I want a new owner ASAP - a owner who can take us forward, help propel us to the next level... but so does Bill! It's a catch 22 situation, I think Bill wants to sell to the perfect owner because he's a fan and maybe he's being too cautious with regard to a Lerner type buyer, or Bill wants to sell to someone who will keep him as part of the team (which may not neccessarily be such a bad thing).

 

Regardless of who we get to sell us Kenwright will have the final say. He doesn't deserve some of the abuse he's getting, he and Moyes have helped raise the expectations of the fans in their time here. I think Bill has held on too long and missed some excellent opportunities (Kings Dock being the main one) but I still think he wants the best for the club in the long run and will do what he can while he is in charge.

 

 

Totally agree

[StevO]

 

I know a company that ran an event at Everton and hated it. Now to be fair this was 4 years ago but they said that the rooms were dreadful, internet facilities didn't work properly & that when they parked their cars the staff warned them that there was a good chance on being broken into. I think a fair few of these problems have been fixed & matchday hospitality does well in the industry awards (for what those are worth) but location is a big problem. People spending that type of money want a really good reason to spend it in L4

 

i think all of the lounges have been refurbed since then, the dixie dean being the latest. ive been over the last seven years or so, and there is always security in the park end car park.

[c1982]

 

have a look for yourself http://www.evertonfc...ec?page=lounges

our lounges are great, the food is great, the service is exceptional, ive been lucky enough with work and with family/company friends to experience them.

but they dont sell. just look at the first 20 or so rows in the middle of the main stand on a match day, see how many empty seats there are.

you can use the lounges for parties and weddings, and they do well at christmas time for parties and summer for weddings, but inbetween there isnt much interest.

 

£45,000 a season, wow! - okay you're right in that they may not all sell but probably as they are over priced as we have so few! Most clubs have 50 odd. I stand by this is a stream where we are missing out and it would make a massive difference if we could exploit this avenue. Maybe the Park End corporate development would help. It's obviously something the club have identified too.

[toptoffee]

 

Sometimes you have to see the man, and not the Chairman.

 

It would take an enormous post in which to explain why I would prefer Kenwright at the helm, and I think I've taken steps over the past month towards doing the same, only in little segments, so no need to summarize just yet.

 

I think a lot of opinions come from lots of backgrounds, and not all of them are football, or business related.

 

Football is about passion, and not always about right or wrong.

 

If we could choose between an Arab / Sheikh Billionaire (nothing against Arabs) , or a Kenwright Billionaire, how many would want the Arab?

 

I don't get this 'get lost because you're skint' attitude many fans have. They don't have the club at heart, only their own ego's, that should be fullfilled by their own lives, and not have their hopes rest on the shoulders of a football club.

 

 

 

I see your point.. And I do agree on some aspects. To me Everton never has been about money..Its about the club as a whole.

 

However in the current conditions the way the premiership is going as a whole is, spend or be relagated.

 

How long can moyes keep making these signings, and selling them at big profits to keep the banks happy.

 

I think kenwright has served his purpose and cant do much else in terms of generating revenue..

 

He is doing all he can I believe. And I certainly don't want any arabs owning our club!

[StevO]

 

£45,000 a season, wow! - okay you're right in that they may not all sell but probably as they are over priced as we have so few! Most clubs have 50 odd. I stand by this is a stream where we are missing out and it would make a massive difference if we could exploit this avenue. Maybe the Park End corporate development would help. It's obviously something the club have identified too.

 

in fairness the 45k a season is for ten people, so per person its not that much more than our other lounges.

i do completely agree that we are missing out with this, but its often made out as the only thing holding us back about GP.

 

the park end development wouldnt have had the lounges in them, but the offices in the main stand would have moved into them, leaving the old offices to be converted into new lounges.

 

for me, the lower level lounges would be a start to build up. a couple of lounges that are quite cheap, like the to cheapest ones, may be able to be promoted as a family lounge. for example, maybe sell a table of four with four tickets (2 adults and 2 kids) with a couple of programmes per table, a drink each and a snack of your choice. could attract a different type of customer. just one idea, they can have that one for free. anymore of my ideas come with a price

[Avinalaff]

 

 

 

I see your point.. And I do agree on some aspects. To me Everton never has been about money..Its about the club as a whole.

 

However in the current conditions the way the premiership is going as a whole is, spend or be relagated.

 

How long can moyes keep making these signings, and selling them at big profits to keep the banks happy.

 

I think kenwright has served his purpose and cant do much else in terms of generating revenue..

 

He is doing all he can I believe. And I certainly don't want any arabs owning our club!

 

There are different reasons for fan unrest, but I think it's important to realise that there is only a minority of unrest, as opposed to being a majority.

 

There are different types of fans too.

 

We have age aspects, location, match goers v none attenders, social variations from professional people to jobless fans, and all the attitudes in between, from good sensible folk to complete Neanderthals. Summing up the typical football fan isn't easy to do.

 

For those who think the board are doing a bad job, and don't have the business acumen to succeed, I'm all ears, if they can come up with a better business plan, and present it to the shareholders and board alike, but let's not forget that the guys on the board know a little about business, Kenwright especially owning the largest theatrical company there is.

 

I'm fairly sure Kenwright doesn't want to leave. Why would he? He's the biggest Evertonian I know. It's more that fans have gotten to him, and his heart has been broken.

 

For those who just want trophies at any cost, so they can walk down the street thinking they've achieved something, might they politely piss off to Manchester and support another club.

 

Spend or be relegated is not the case.

 

We haven't been in danger of relegation for quite some time, and in fact it's been quite the opposite. We've been one of the most successful clubs in the league since Kenwright took over, and employed Moyes to work with him.

 

Spend and go bankrupt is a much more realistic proposition.

 

Why can't fans come to terms with being an 'average' club, with average success? Is it so important to be the best, regardless of cost?

 

Only one club can be the best, regardless of how much money gets spent.

 

In our entire history, we've won the league a handful of times. Are we not still fans?

[StevO]

you do talk sense avin. my stance is i dont want them to spend, and its the spending while costs have been increased that is the problem i have. its the long term security of the club i have in mind. but that is only my opinion. im not bothered that we havent bought anyone for two years, im more bothered about the long term future of the club. i can only judge our current lot on the finances we have and it worries me that they have had to sell to stay afloat. not that it has been done, but more that there is nothing left to sell, im worried what the next step will be.