Hafnia Posted December 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 Drenthe off??? Nice one, fasten seatbelts folks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 We are giving the ball away so easily... Everyone is at it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 WTF is CAhill doing there? A couple of them nearby with time and space and hoofs the ball away and gives them possession back. Stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted December 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 Fellaini, absolute monster, lost count of the foot ins and lay offs. Brilliant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 Good result, Drenthe was class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 Fellaini, absolute monster, lost count of the foot ins and lay offs. Brilliant. Couldn't agree more....hardly put a foot wrong, and when he did he put it right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 Well at least we got the 3 points, its just a shame that a performance that could have promised much more petered out to nothing as we reverted back to our usual play. Its that type of thing that leaves me banging my head against a wall with Everton. We were ripping them to shreds before half time and then come back out looking like half the team, and bar the goal from the corner, we didnt really create too many other opportunities. Again Heitinga was the best at the back. Moyes might see them in training but a lot of people who dont have been right about him when given a run of games at CB. Although Hibbert and Baines also did better than they have been. Osman was a magician and was easily MOTM for me. Well played Sir. Fellaini bossed Swansea all game and could have easily done with Neville, who wasnt the worst he has been but was completely pointless nethertheless. Drenthe & Gueye both showed real promise again. The former is always looking to cut in on his left foot so I think it is important that he swaps wings so the defenders dont get used to him, like they did towards the end of the second half. Saha showed glimpses, especially in the period before half time, but was wasteful for the rest. Straq was less impressive than Saturday, but still won headers and held the ball up well when he took a touch and used his strength (instead of trying to force a one touch pass). I have no idea why Cahill was brought on, and he did sweet FA with the minutes he had on the pitch. Overall, we showed we can play with high intensity, high pressing, quick passing and movement as well as that we do have creative players when they are all on the pitch together and its everythnig I have been asking this team to do all season. Why on earth we could only keep it up for 20-25 minutes is beyond me and the gaps we left in midfield when we started to sit back was worrying. There was no shape or organisation and Swansea showed why they havent got a point in a game in which they have gone behind in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted December 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 Neville better second half but not good enough. Whatever he had its gone, his balance, speed of thought and feet are not up to the pace of the game. Knows how to stifle and organise , but we've got fellaini who dines for two on that meal so let's create the opportunity for a desert in midfield. Barkley is the answer, no matter how raw he is he can only get better playing with the Belgian beast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicagoblue Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 Went to the pub to try and catch the game only to learn it was only being shown on repeat, and then got called in to work before I could watch our match. Hoping to see extended highlights later, but it sounds like we actually played some football and kept our foot on it to the end; just what I needed to prepare me for a week with family Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted December 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 Went to the pub to try and catch the game only to learn it was only being shown on repeat, and then got called in to work before I could watch our match. Hoping to see extended highlights later, but it sounds like we actually played some football and kept our foot on it to the end; just what I needed to prepare me for a week with family It was 6/10 to be honest. Swansea if the had a shearer would be immense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanchesterCity Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 Just the sort of results you need. Actually making the sure the home bankers turn out that way! Nothing up with 1-0's... a win is a win, and closing the gap on your neighbours ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoroBlue Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 When you play 4-5-1 with a striker who drops deep that's what happens, I'm sure moyes must know this. No prescence up front. Thats how Barcelona play, they call it the fake number 9 role and it is occupied by Lionel Messi, who apparently is not a bad little player, but it doesn't really work when you have a striker who drops deep and no-one willing to run beyond him. Only saw the highlights on MOTD and looked like a decent performance. Would like to see Gueye and Drenthe on the wings again switching over to keep defenders on there toes, looks like a potent weapon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 Thats how Barcelona play, they call it the fake number 9 role and it is occupied by Lionel Messi, who apparently is not a bad little player, but it doesn't really work when you have a striker who drops deep and no-one willing to run beyond him. Only saw the highlights on MOTD and looked like a decent performance. Would like to see Gueye and Drenthe on the wings again switching over to keep defenders on there toes, looks like a potent weapon. Im pretty sure they play 433 but anyway, difference is they attack as a unit, 3-4 players pushing up together so theres options for attack. We dont. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 May be showing a lack of technical knowledge here but how is 4-5-1 with attacking players (Drenthe/Gueye) in the wide positions different from 4-3-3? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 May be showing a lack of technical knowledge here but how is 4-5-1 with attacking players (Drenthe/Gueye) in the wide positions different from 4-3-3? its all the mentality Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted December 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 I thought our movement in general was poor, swansea showed us how it is done. The times Felli rescued us from a situation where Neville was stuck flat footed with his right peg ready to launch another ball to nowhere, the times where when we broke we had two men versus 5 with the cavalry 10 seconds behind. A particular moment that highlighted this was when felli released drenthe or baines on the left and a great ball was fired across the face of goal - where was saha? - he was outside the penno area. I think even though we got the 3 points we still need to be realistic about where we are, the crowd at times were groaning, and it was audible. We need some serious coaching regarding our play patterns, we have far better players than the stuff they are serving up, and i'm afraid Neville and Cahill aren't in the mix to do that. For now, let's take the 3 points and be pleased that Moyes has looked at starting drenthe and dropping cahill - but we have a fair bit to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LexKing Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 (edited) It was a really frustrating game again. Even we won i dont feel very confident. When we are dominating the possession throught all the game, we need another STRIKER up there. Saha at this condition is just too easy to keep hiding alone, and when he seems to drop down all the time, we have not any1 up there majority of the time. Really yesterday first scoring chance came to our central defender Johnny, when he followed to the box after sharing the ball on wing to Coleman. That is really concerning me atm. Moyes seems to be very negative these days(well havent he always been?). 4-5-1 had it moments when we had threat ffrom the midfield, but TC havent now scored over a year, so has to change that. Its urgent. Osman scored yesterday, from playing position behind the loneman, but it was a set pieces. Nice goal thought, but we need to get more pressure on the box from open play. I really hope we will get best squad soon on the field and when adding Donovan there also we can produce better results, with 2 strikers. Howard Hibbo-Jags-Johnny-Baines Coleman/Donovan-Felli-Rodwell/Osman-Drenthe Straqa/Vellios/McAleny-Saha That way Saha would got more space what he really needs. He cant win almost any headers and is just a waste of space there alone. Edited December 22, 2011 by LexKing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted December 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 The only players that link up well on the overlaps are baines, drenthe and to be fair maggie. That is why we look incredibly static and gives the 4-5-1 look, Fellaini is a top top defensive midfielder but we rely on him so much with Neville in the team, on the ball neville offers very very little, has no ability to create, make incisive passes or really has any composure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_E Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 May be showing a lack of technical knowledge here but how is 4-5-1 with attacking players (Drenthe/Gueye) in the wide positions different from 4-3-3? It's basically the same thing going forward. It's in the defending aspect that they differ. 4-5-1 (actually a 4-4-1-1 or 4-2-3-1) has 4 banks of defenders, a 4-3-3 has just 3 lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 Let's be honest; it was an OK performance. Nothing more, nothing less. We played well in patches and served up crap in other periods. We need to make sure that those good patches turn into the main aspect of our play and the patches become the lulls in our play. The same problems are still there:- we're still embarrassingly slow, the movement of our players off the ball is painful, we're predictable (apart from when Drenthe gets the ball), we don't create enough chances, we struggle to have someone in the box when the balls do eventually find their way in there, we sat back dangerously after taking the lead, and we made extremely hard work of beating a side that barely attacked us until we scored. However, last night there were quite a lot of positives to take out of the game and we have bits we can build on in the coming games, and we haven't been able to say that too much this season. Apart from Saha and Neville I thought every single player put a shift in and added something to the performance. Fellaini absolutely bossed the game. Drenthe and Gueye looked sharp on either wing. Osman played extremely well behind the striker, providing a decent link between midfield and the forward line. We did better at shutting down the oppositions space (although, we could have done better in this respect, IMO). And the central defensive partnership of Jagielka and Heitinga looked solid, like they have a good understanding. There was plenty of talking going on between them. I always thought Jagielka was the organiser at the back but it looked to me like there was more of Heitinga telling Jagielka where to be than the other way round. I thought, other than the Cahill substitution, Moyes got his subs spot on. Gueye brought a big spark to the wing and had a really good game. Denis, while looking a bit cumbersome, offered more effort in the little time he was on the pitch than Saha did all night. The Cahill sub was a waste I felt; he really didn't give us anything up there. You expect a sub late in the game to really put himself about but he barely broke sweat and didn't win any headers. I was extremely disappointed with Swansea tbh. I know they're a newly promoted side and a draw would be seen as a good result for them but I expected them to ave a bit of a go at us. And they didn't at all until we took the lead. Howard - Did he even have anything to do? Hibbert - I thought he had an OK game, plenty of effort etc. But I don't think he was tested defensively and didn't really get that involved attacking wise either. Jagielka - He really does look a lot more comfortable next to Heitinga than Distin doesn't he? He still launches the ball pointlessly, I don't think that will ever change, but he looks a lot less shaky doing the simple things and having someone next to him who he knows he can pass the ball to get us rolling up field is clearly making his job easier. Heitinga - I'm so happy to see him playing so well now he's in his correct position. He marshalled the defence supremely last night, he's the boss back there for sure. And I love the fact that he is comfortable with the ball at his feet, and can play the ball easily with either foot. He gives us some much needed composure at the back and his positional sense was mostly spot on. And, whereas Jags will launch himself for a ball he's never going to win, Johnny will take a step back and wait for the opposition player to get the ball and THEN go and take the ball from him. They compliment each other, IMO. Baines - I thought he was a bit up and down tbh. He certainly needs to take some time away from set-piece duty, he's got Artetaitis at the moment. At some points he'd show great link-up play with the winger and be a key man in all our attacks and then he'd disappear for large spells. Coleman - Never got a chance to make an impact on the game. Neville - I'm really struggling to see what he brought to the table last night tbh. His passing was atrocious, even to a man right next to him, so he couldn't get move us forward. He hardly put a tackle in all night. He just stands in empty space and points a bit. Space doesn't harm us, opposition players do, Phil. Fellaini - When he plays like he did last night he makes it look absolutely effortless, like he's not even trying. The amount of times he just put a foot in and took the ball off a Swansea player like he owned it was insane. And whenever he did get sloppy and lose the ball he rectified it instantly by winning the ball back. He won lots of headers. He showed great composure to bring high balls down on his chest when he knew he had the time to do so (I love it when he does that). Majestic. Imperious. Superb. Phenomenal. Regal. You could run out of superlatives to describe Fellaini's performance last night. My MOTM. Drenthe - He's exciting isn't he? As soon as he gets the ball his first thought is always forward, and it's something that we've been crying out for. Yes, he's frustrating because oftentimes he'll keep hold of the ball a little too long or try to do too much when there's a simple option available to him, but you've got to take the rough with the smooth with a dynamic player like Drenthe. I can forgive him fucking up with his final ball sometimes just because he's willing to do something different. We have enough safety first players. Plus, he got another assist for Osman's goal because he put the corner in. He can keep messing up as long as he keeps bringing the ammunition. Osman - This is what a midfielder playing behind the striker should be like, not what we've had with Cahill recently. He offers something completely different to Cahill behind the striker but it was no less effective than a Cahill in form. We know he's got great feet and he showed that to great effect last night, giving a good link between the midfield and the attacking line. And he brought the wingers into the game brilliantly by always looking for them when he got the ball. Plus, he rounded off his quality performance with another goal. He's putting some of our "strikers" to shame. Saha - With Swansea always wanting to play the ball out from the back we needed him to put a shift in and chase them for all he was worth. What we got instead was him trotting round the pitch like he didn't have a care in the world. I'm sick of his lethargic performances and the sooner he leaves this club the better. I can't see Moyes dropping Saha or Neville for the Boxing Day game (unless Rodwell's back) so I hope he plays the same side that started this game but Gueye in for Coleman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted December 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 I'm glad i'm not the only one on here who is exasperated by Neville. I'm actually now at the point where I regret us ever getting him - surely that can't be right? I wanted him to be injured when he took a knock - now that is definately not right. So let's look at why he is being played - no other alternatives? Well in midfield we have fellaini pretty much guarding the back 4 single handedly, so what is Neville going to offer - More defending? No, he was flat footed, didn't get a tackle in and pretty much his passing is as it has always been - average to poor at any level. The whole pointing and shouting act was funny at first, now it's just pathetic, unless the other players have no footballing brains then he is just going through the motions and looking busy. I would have Barkley in there without hesitation - this is the lad that single handedly took the game to QPR, even in the prescence of Arteta. So what happened? He had a bit of a wobble against Blackburn, nothing worse than Jags, Johnny, Baines, Hibbo, and specifically Neville have had this year. Why wrap him up in cotton wool? does he have fragile mentality? I dont think so, he was organising the midfield against QPR, against Villareal he was the one player who stood out against technically superior players, against Wolfsburg he too stood out. At the time against Blackburn I said it was the wrong thing to do to take him off, there were 10 experienced players to look after him. Since then we have barely seen him - so whats in his mind now? "Blimey if I get a start I can't make a mistake or I won't see the first team again for a good while" and then we see a shell of the player he should be. We should be seeing the wonders of youthful fearlessness, not the caution of a manager who finds it difficult to embrace players who can change a game with an element of risk. This has yet again been highlighted by Moyes, his praise for Drenthe had to come with a sting "I thought Roy did quite well tonight. There were some good bits, some not so good bits too, but when you have got a player like Roy you are going to have to accept that." - why say that? I thought at times he was sensational - tracking back, winning tackles, taking the game to them. Why not be more gushing in your praise David? He is the type of player who needs to hear "You were awesome tonight Roy, you took on board the defensive work I wanted you to do and it was your best game yet - well done" I want the lad to sign in January and would prefer abit of a charm offensive to lure him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 spot on Haf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoroBlue Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 May be showing a lack of technical knowledge here but how is 4-5-1 with attacking players (Drenthe/Gueye) in the wide positions different from 4-3-3? Thats the point I was trying to make really, the formation we play isn't the problem, its the rigidity with which we play it. Using Barcelona as an example again you could argue that they play 4-5-1 or 4-3-3, or you could write it as 4-1-4-1, 4-4-1-1, 4-1-2-1-2 or even 4-2-3-1. The fact is they don't really stick to any one formation they change through the match with defensive players playing more disciplined roles, and attacking players given the freedom to play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LexKing Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 I'm glad i'm not the only one on here who is exasperated by Neville. I'm actually now at the point where I regret us ever getting him - surely that can't be right? I wanted him to be injured when he took a knock - now that is definately not right. Well writed Haf. Im thinking the same on everything else than this. Im also hating hes playing, but i dont regret we got him. When we had unexperienced team, he really was the skipper for our team what was needed. I dont know why does he play atm, cause he got nothing to give anymore. Well nothing is quite harsh, but not much. And yes i dont also understand why Ross cant get time. At least from the bench he shoudl come in every game, if not any knocks or other rough weeks, youngsters or school etc. He should be prepared with playing, not watching others play. Hes got the influence he can from the bench already Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LexKing Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 And BoroBlue. I dont think that i would(or anyone should) wanna hear anytime soon Barcelona and Everton on tactically based post :/ *sarcasm* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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