Bailey Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 http://randylernerout.com/ This looks almost familiar!!! That isnt in anyway familiar. Did you read their 'reasons'? When the first is 'because he didnt force MON to play his first string side in the UEFA Cup' then you know they are talking out of their arse. Admittedly hiring McLeish wasnt a good move IMO, but to want him out for them two main reasons is a joke. There are several, much larger issues that are debated with Kenwrights reign and its not even mildly comparable to the Aston Villa situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 I think Villa fans are the most fickle you could ever meet and I know loads of them. Yeh me too... They are all decent people but when it comes to Villa they turn into screaming yobos! lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted January 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 That isnt in anyway familiar. Did you read their 'reasons'? When the first is 'because he didnt force MON to play his first string side in the UEFA Cup' then you know they are talking out of their arse. Admittedly hiring McLeish wasnt a good move IMO, but to want him out for them two main reasons is a joke. There are several, much larger issues that are debated with Kenwrights reign and its not even mildly comparable to the Aston Villa situation. I'm not qualifying it in anyway but it's just an example of unrest being out there and by talking to villa fans on a daily basis, many (most) aren't fans of Lerner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 Big difference in opinion between posts on here and posts on ToffeeWeb: http://www.toffeeweb.com/season/11-12/news/20123.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noble Savage Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 Big difference in opinion between posts on here and posts on ToffeeWeb: http://www.toffeeweb...news/20123.html Never been a real big follower of ToffeeWeb ,however a few of the fans have made a good point. The Union boys didn't get aggy and they didn't swear. I was more shocked at that than Saint Bill's refusal to answer the questions put to him. I don't think this will impact at all. One man and his dog just isn't enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 Who do those lads think they are? Cringe worthy louts. Show some respect for once and do things properly, and do it 'above board. Intimidating the chairman in his own club grounds is just as bad as standing in somebodies garden shouting through their window. There is a time and a place. Why should he answer any questions you have? I personally wouldn't give you the time of day, so why should he? You have representatives. Make an appointment and do things the right way. All you are doing is dividing fans and giving the club a bad image. It's not 'your' club. It's his. You're fans, nothing more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted January 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 Never been a real big follower of ToffeeWeb ,however a few of the fans have made a good point. The Union boys didn't get aggy and they didn't swear. I was more shocked at that than Saint Bill's refusal to answer the questions put to him. I don't think this will impact at all. One man and his dog just isn't enough. They didn't swear (because they were stood by the police) but they undid any credibility by asking questions like "where's Stallone?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueherts Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 Shocking behaviour by cretins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted January 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 (edited) Who do those lads think they are? Cringe worthy louts. Show some respect for once and do things properly, and do it 'above board. Intimidating the chairman in his own club grounds is just as bad as standing in somebodies garden shouting through their window. There is a time and a place. Why should he answer any questions you have? I personally wouldn't give you the time of day, so why should he? You have representatives. Make an appointment and do things the right way. All you are doing is dividing fans and giving the club a bad image. It's not 'your' club. It's his. You're fans, nothing more. Pretty much agree with that but in the words of the people's club, EFC is all of of ours! Edited January 7, 2012 by c1982 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noble Savage Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 They didn't swear (because they were stood by the police) but they undid any credibility by asking questions like "where's Stallone?" Really ? I didn't hear that . In that case , they have shot themselves in their clown feet again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 Both sides are led by complete and utter morons who discredit themselves any time they're in the public eye. You've got Kenwright on one side who puts his foot in his mouth that often you'd think he'd brought about foot and mouth disease. Then you have the leaders of the BU who constantly make themselves look like clowns with their methods. I'm sick to fucking death of it all. You lot bicker like little children while Everton falls apart and we all lose out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 IMO I can't see much wrong with what the BU did today. It was another peaceful protest. They went about it the right way. I mean - someone needs to let Kenwright know that its in fact our club and not his, Everton would be nothing without the supporters spending millions a year in tickets and merchandise. You pay for Everton, not BK, nice car though, wonder how much that cost, probably more than Seamus Coleman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 IMO I can't see much wrong with what the BU did today. It was another peaceful protest. They went about it the right way. I mean - someone needs to let Kenwright know that its in fact our club and not his, Everton would be nothing without the supporters spending millions a year in tickets and merchandise. You pay for Everton, not BK, nice car though, wonder how much that cost, probably more than Seamus Coleman. Sorry Aidan but I think you're a little romantic, and in need of being a little realistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everton_Worshiper Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 So my only point on this topic ... I f**king hate BU. They are everything I hate about pressure groups. Other thing, and I hate to get personal, I loathe the high horse that people like Hafnia (feel free to complain to the mods) jump on when stupid stunts like this are performed by this extremely badly run group. That is all. (Romey's last sentence above sums it up nicely for me.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanchesterCity Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 IMO I can't see much wrong with what the BU did today. It was another peaceful protest. They went about it the right way. I mean - someone needs to let Kenwright know that its in fact our club and not his, Everton would be nothing without the supporters spending millions a year in tickets and merchandise. You pay for Everton, not BK, nice car though, wonder how much that cost, probably more than Seamus Coleman. Erm let me explain. 1) Nowhere in life do you shout out your questions to someone, unannounced and uninvited and expect a positive response 2) They weren't legitimate questions, they were taunts in the guise of questions "who next bill?" "what's the price bill?". I understand the frustrations, but this was simply goading to get him to react, or say something. 3) It's not the fans club. You THINK it is. All fans like to believe it, but it's a myth. YOU are a captive punter (I don't mean Everton fans alone, I mean ALL fans of all clubs). You're caught up in a delusion that your passion and love for the club is reciprocated. It's not. They want your money, and they'll charge as much as they think you can sustain. 4) It IS BK's business. He's paid for his shares. 5) I agree entirely that the fans are incredibly important to a club, but y'ain't calling the shots. The only way the fans COULD change something is en masse, and typically only by hurting the club in the process (boycotting matches / merchandise etc). That's not going to happen is it? Which is why the board have the upper hand. I don't think the BU were particularly aggressive today, or particularly rude or anything - simply incapable of grasping that the exercise was entirely futile. They'd be better served raising money and making a legal agreement that the 'gift' be used to buy players or similar - not gonna happen though. All they've done with that video is just emphasize the unflattering situation that some of the fans are 'demanding change' (without any genuine strategy for what that change is going to be other than more money!) and a board that appears powerless to carry out their wishes because they believe the 'market is wrong and Everton are worth something they aren't'. The market is the market, Everton are worth what someone will pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 Erm let me explain. 1) Nowhere in life do you shout out your questions to someone, unannounced and uninvited and expect a positive response 2) They weren't legitimate questions, they were taunts in the guise of questions "who next bill?" "what's the price bill?". I understand the frustrations, but this was simply goading to get him to react, or say something. 3) It's not the fans club. You THINK it is. All fans like to believe it, but it's a myth. YOU are a captive punter (I don't mean Everton fans alone, I mean ALL fans of all clubs). You're caught up in a delusion that your passion and love for the club is reciprocated. It's not. They want your money, and they'll charge as much as they think you can sustain. 4) It IS BK's business. He's paid for his shares. 5) I agree entirely that the fans are incredibly important to a club, but y'ain't calling the shots. The only way the fans COULD change something is en masse, and typically only by hurting the club in the process (boycotting matches / merchandise etc). That's not going to happen is it? Which is why the board have the upper hand. I don't think the BU were particularly aggressive today, or particularly rude or anything - simply incapable of grasping that the exercise was entirely futile. They'd be better served raising money and making a legal agreement that the 'gift' be used to buy players or similar - not gonna happen though. All they've done with that video is just emphasize the unflattering situation that some of the fans are 'demanding change' (without any genuine strategy for what that change is going to be other than more money!) and a board that appears powerless to carry out their wishes because they believe the 'market is wrong and Everton are worth something they aren't'. The market is the market, Everton are worth what someone will pay. Some will never grasp the reality of the situation mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanchesterCity Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 (edited) The reason Everton fans bicker (as any other fan would do in the same situation) is because they are powerless. Their club is clearly being managed badly. I don't like to use the term 'badly', but what other word is there? Everton are one of the handful of greatest clubs in British history, still has a huge fan base, and still playing top flight football, gets fantastic TV money and spends next to sod all.... So the money's going / gone somewhere. It doesn't have some of the super duper fancy modern stadiums that some rivals have, but not all their rivals have them either. It doesn't have the best of locations IF you were to start a football club today, but then neither do many of their rivals. There is NO reason why Everton shouldn't be in a comparable position to Spurs, or Liverpool say. The implication being that the management of the club has been inferior. Fans bickering is simply frustration at seeing all this happen and being unable to do much about it. If they kept it in, they'd be a wreck. Some will show hopeless optimism, and others will be prophets of doom, some will laugh at the mess and some will cry. I'm not even emotionally attached to Everton, but it's a symptom of the mess footballs in (underneath the facade of Premier League being 'all that'). When Everton are in trouble, football is in trouble. Edited January 7, 2012 by BlueSky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 Erm let me explain. 1) Nowhere in life do you shout out your questions to someone, unannounced and uninvited and expect a positive response 2) They weren't legitimate questions, they were taunts in the guise of questions "who next bill?" "what's the price bill?". I understand the frustrations, but this was simply goading to get him to react, or say something. 3) It's not the fans club. You THINK it is. All fans like to believe it, but it's a myth. YOU are a captive punter (I don't mean Everton fans alone, I mean ALL fans of all clubs). You're caught up in a delusion that your passion and love for the club is reciprocated. It's not. They want your money, and they'll charge as much as they think you can sustain. 4) It IS BK's business. He's paid for his shares. 5) I agree entirely that the fans are incredibly important to a club, but y'ain't calling the shots. The only way the fans COULD change something is en masse, and typically only by hurting the club in the process (boycotting matches / merchandise etc). That's not going to happen is it? Which is why the board have the upper hand. I don't think the BU were particularly aggressive today, or particularly rude or anything - simply incapable of grasping that the exercise was entirely futile. They'd be better served raising money and making a legal agreement that the 'gift' be used to buy players or similar - not gonna happen though. All they've done with that video is just emphasize the unflattering situation that some of the fans are 'demanding change' (without any genuine strategy for what that change is going to be other than more money!) and a board that appears powerless to carry out their wishes because they believe the 'market is wrong and Everton are worth something they aren't'. The market is the market, Everton are worth what someone will pay. 1) Nowhere in life do you shout out your questions to someone, unannounced and uninvited and expect a positive response - I dont think the lads were expecting a positive response do you? And they were protesting, it wasnt Parkinson. 2) They weren't legitimate questions, they were taunts in the guise of questions "who next bill?" "what's the price bill?". I understand - Again, they were protesting their questions, and they're right, who is next? Rodwell? Barkley? Who do you want to see leave? Nobody, just like me. 3) It's not the fans club. You THINK it is. All fans like to believe it, but it's a myth. YOU are a captive punter (I don't mean Everton fans alone, I mean ALL fans of all clubs). You're caught up in a delusion that your passion and love for the club is reciprocated. It's not. They want your money, and they'll charge as much as they think you can sustain. - At the end of the day Goodison's average attendance these past few months has dropped dramatically, do you think thats helping the finances? 4) It IS BK's business. He's paid for his shares. - Your just putting words in my mouth now, I never said it wasnt his business, I was trying to say that without us Everton would no longer exsist. It IS our club. The word support dosnt just mean follow. We are the backbone. 5) I agree entirely that the fans are incredibly important to a club, but y'ain't calling the shots. The only way the fans COULD change something is en masse, and typically only by hurting the club in the process (boycotting matches / merchandise etc). That's not going to happen is it? Which is why the board have the upper hand. - Its true, the board do have the upper hand, im not here to squabble and disagree. I know you love this club just as much as I do and at the end of the day all I dream of is 15 maybe 20 million every season IF we need it. I want stability and were never going to get that with BK. Theres more that happens behind the scenes than we know and I can feel that BK is full of bull. We have to move on because its getting embaressing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanchesterCity Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 (edited) 1) Nowhere in life do you shout out your questions to someone, unannounced and uninvited and expect a positive response - I dont think the lads were expecting a positive response do you? And they were protesting, it wasnt Parkinson. 2) They weren't legitimate questions, they were taunts in the guise of questions "who next bill?" "what's the price bill?". I understand - Again, they were protesting their questions, and they're right, who is next? Rodwell? Barkley? Who do you want to see leave? Nobody, just like me. 3) It's not the fans club. You THINK it is. All fans like to believe it, but it's a myth. YOU are a captive punter (I don't mean Everton fans alone, I mean ALL fans of all clubs). You're caught up in a delusion that your passion and love for the club is reciprocated. It's not. They want your money, and they'll charge as much as they think you can sustain. - At the end of the day Goodison's average attendance these past few months has dropped dramatically, do you think thats helping the finances? 4) It IS BK's business. He's paid for his shares. - Your just putting words in my mouth now, I never said it wasnt his business, I was trying to say that without us Everton would no longer exsist. It IS our club. The word support dosnt just mean follow. We are the backbone. 5) I agree entirely that the fans are incredibly important to a club, but y'ain't calling the shots. The only way the fans COULD change something is en masse, and typically only by hurting the club in the process (boycotting matches / merchandise etc). That's not going to happen is it? Which is why the board have the upper hand. - Its true, the board do have the upper hand, im not here to squabble and disagree. I know you love this club just as much as I do and at the end of the day all I dream of is 15 maybe 20 million every season IF we need it. I want stability and were never going to get that with BK. Theres more that happens behind the scenes than we know and I can feel that BK is full of bull. We have to move on because its getting embaressing. Fair comments I'd say - although you DID say it was "our club and not his". It's just frustrating with protest groups. I understand their plight, I just don't think it ever gets anything done (certainly not protest groups of that nature). Alas, I'm not an Everton fan. I'm a City fan (don't say a word) - I just think this is a fine forum for football banter in general, and I take an interest in Everton simply because their literally a Grand Old Team (or club). To my mind Everton should be one of the markers we measure football by. If it's raining at Everton, or Arsenal etc, something's not right in football.... Edited January 7, 2012 by BlueSky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted January 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 3) It's not the fans club. You THINK it is. All fans like to believe it, but it's a myth. YOU are a captive punter (I don't mean Everton fans alone, I mean ALL fans of all clubs). You're caught up in a delusion that your passion and love for the club is reciprocated. It's not. They want your money, and they'll charge as much as they think you can sustain. It is the fans club in the sense that if we ALL don't go and don't buy the merchandise etc, EFC wouldn't be able to continue as a business. It is Bill's business as much (well slightly more) as it is Earl's and Woods'... these people should be questioned too... Bill may not even be the main 'problem'! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 Both sides are led by complete and utter morons who discredit themselves any time they're in the public eye. You've got Kenwright on one side who puts his foot in his mouth that often you'd think he'd brought about foot and mouth disease. Then you have the leaders of the BU who constantly make themselves look like clowns with their methods. I'm sick to fucking death of it all. You lot bicker like little children while Everton falls apart and we all lose out. we really need post ratings around this place +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 Why should fans know what goes on behind the scenes? We support what happens on the pitch. We pay for a product. We aren't giving Everton FC our money for free. In return for entrance fees, you get to watch a game of football. It's just the same as supporting a pop group. If you buy a T-shirt, you get a T-shirt for your money, just like you would get a tour T-shirt, or buy a cd. Everton are a business, and they have a product that is in demand. If they decide enough is enough, and decide to cease trading (FA rules permitting) you'll soon see who 'owns' the club. If the board want to, they can sell Baines, Fellaini, Jagielka, and anybody else. They paid for them. Not us. Fans pay to watch the game. Like any business, our custom is essential, but like any business, it's none of our business what happens behind the scenes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 It is the fans club in the sense that if we ALL don't go and don't buy the merchandise etc, EFC wouldn't be able to continue as a business. It is Bill's business as much (well slightly more) as it is Earl's and Woods'... these people should be questioned too... Bill may not even be the main 'problem'! If we 'all' don't shop in Asda, they will struggle too, but is Asda ours? It is a romantic notion that fans own clubs. They never have and never will, unless they put their hands in their pockets and get their names on the deeds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanchesterCity Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 (edited) Why should fans know what goes on behind the scenes? We support what happens on the pitch. We pay for a product. We aren't giving Everton FC our money for free. In return for entrance fees, you get to watch a game of football. It's just the same as supporting a pop group. If you buy a T-shirt, you get a T-shirt for your money, just like you would get a tour T-shirt, or buy a cd. Everton are a business, and they have a product that is in demand. If they decide enough is enough, and decide to cease trading (FA rules permitting) you'll soon see who 'owns' the club. If the board want to, they can sell Baines, Fellaini, Jagielka, and anybody else. They paid for them. Not us. Fans pay to watch the game. Like any business, our custom is essential, but like any business, it's none of our business what happens behind the scenes. When you get down to brass tacks.... this. BUT.... It's understandable why fans want to know. And fans aren't typical consumers because of the emotional attachment. Even with your very favourite band, you can still switch sides.... but with your club? it's virtually impossible. Fans think they are investing in the club, not paying for 90 mins entertainment, but in truth, you're spot on. That's all they are paying for. Actually, awful analogy really, but we are more like drug addicts and the club are our dealer. ONLY one dealer has the 'stuff' we need though. No other shit will do! Edited January 7, 2012 by BlueSky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted January 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 If we 'all' don't shop in Asda, they will struggle too, but is Asda ours? It is a romantic notion that fans own clubs. They never have and never will, unless they put their hands in their pockets and get their names on the deeds. What I'm saying is, it's our club in the sense that they rely on us, in part, to exist. Plus many fans are shareholders anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 i think av is sayin the same about asda too..they rely on customers to exist too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanchesterCity Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 What I'm saying is, it's our club in the sense that they rely on us, in part, to exist. Plus many fans are shareholders anyway. The real tragedy is... of all the interested parties in a club, above the board, the players, the sponsors, the regulators..... it's the fans who pay the most, and suffer the most and love the most. In that sense, ONLY the fans truly own the club in their hearts. That's the biggest tragedy of all. Those to whom it literally matters the most are the ones who have the least power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanchesterCity Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 i think av is sayin the same about asda too..they rely on customers to exist too yeah, clubs NEED us.... although only about 30% of club revenue comes from the gate and merchandise! (so with zero fans they could still survive, in theory) Just like Asda NEED us.... (they'd go under with no customers) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Blue Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 Fans make an emotional investment in the club they support, they are pationate about it and thats why they care who is running it and how. You shop at ASDA's but you dont cheer the special offers or make up chants about the own brands. Likewise I doubt the players would enjoy playing a match infront of a crowd that thinks its on its weekly shop at Tesco's. I dont like Blue Unions tactics, but I understand and share their frustrations. Blue bill has failed to answer questions at AGM's and has constantly been in error where the truth is concerned (fortress fund, watch this space..., kings dock money etc) Like Mike O I just want it sorted, I want to know whats going on with regard to selling the club (as long a it doesnt jepodise the clubs commercial interests) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalziel Kane Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 We've been to ASDA about five times this week, dodging those who just stand at the end of aisles in groups of threes or fours engaging in some tedious, banal debates about their daily lives and snidey kid store assistants who think they are the end all and be all of customer services I think Kenwright does have the clubs best interests at heart, I don't see all that goes on and sometimes would like to concentrate about affairs on the field than events off it but it's clear that something needs to give. Many have said before in an ideal world they'd like to see the back of both Kenwright and Moyes if possible, that's fair enough. We can argue about it all day long but all I ask for is some kind of resolvement if it were possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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