Bailey Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 pienaar was used to the team...has been here before and has had a run of games...drenthe has made 11 goals in limited time...again how is that nowhere near the impact? he can make goals from nothing and has dragged us back into games on his own the assists too...norwich jumps straight to mind in a game he dragged us back into...i'm not saying he's a world beater at all but anyone who dismisses he has had an impact obviously doesn't think Spot on. I wish it had worked out with Drenthe. He obviously has ability and he started out making all the right noises but he's let himself down. Go and read about his time at Hercules last season after a really bright start. There's a pattern to his behaviour. I'm not trying to big up Pienaar, I'm using it as a reference to outline how Drenthe has wasted his opportunity. Feel free to remind me of my 'wrong' opinion when he has a storming season for Liverpool I wouldnt disagree that he has wasted his ability but that doesnt mean he hasn't done a lot in the relatively little amount of game time he has had. Also with Hercules I believe it was because he wasnt getting paid. A lot of the players werent at the time BUT I dont blame him for kicking up a fuss because he wasnt! Trying to turn Drenthe into a Moyesesque footballer is like trying to teach a dog not not to bark at a cat - waste of time. Moyes likes players who keep shape, stay defensively focused, keep disciplined, play the percentages - basically non risk. I'm not saying Drenthe is a saint - but I tell you one thing he would not have played a timid role against Liverpool at Wembley, their keeper would have had shots to save, Jelavic would have had service, and yes maybe Phil Nev and co would have had to shout at him a few times. Somewhere between Moyes cagey, negative tactics and Drenthes carefree, let's have a go and attack midset is the answer to the perfect player and manager mentality. Unfortunately I do not subscribe to the mindset that we have to have 11 rigid, disciplined players on the pitch - that is why I look at Moyes and get annoyed. A team of Kilbanes indeed. Wouldnt disagree with this at all. Every team needs a game changer, and the very best have several. When we line-up against Man Utd at the weekend, we will be lucky if we have one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moyski Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 The fans who don't like him must just like watching turds football, boring old farts or something.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blueboy122 Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 (edited) The fans who don't like him must just like watching turds football, boring old farts or something.. Yeah thats it! Seriously though, he is a love hate player. When he is cracking goals in from 35 yards and going past people and going forward we all love him as would any football fan, but when he is doing stepovers on the edge of the area, giving the ball away in our half, being sloppy with possession, walking back when we are under the cosh from opposistion thats when we hate watching him. Maybe he is a luxury that Everton can't afford? Edited April 20, 2012 by blueboy122 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 Yeah thats it! Seriously though, he is a love hate player. When he is cracking goals in from 35 yards and going past people and going forward we all love him as would any football fan, but when he is doing stepovers on the edge of the area, giving the ball away in our half, being sloppy with possession, walking back when we are under the cosh from opposistion thats when we hate watching him. Maybe he is a luxury that Everton can't afford? Hypothetical say he's on 50k a week, the club won't be willing to fork it out for a player who won't be a regular. In my opinion though he would be, as even if he only started against the bottom half clubs and the last 20 mins against the others he'd make a big contribution 10 points easily, which would make us challenge for champs league at the moment. Keeping him off the pitchers of beer and on the football pitches every week is the only problem, which challenge Moyes clearly isn't up to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 It's sometimes not about how good they are but more about having respect for our club! If he has no respect for the way we do things then kick him out.....simple fact is that we are Everton FC! he is just another player with potential that can't be arsed to realise it, not our problem mate. Get your shit together or take it somewhere else, no matter how good you are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 yeah we have coleman to do the headless chicken thing..he's a grafter so he's 10 times better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moyski Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 We'll never be a flair team, its time we had more options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blueboy122 Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 Hypothetical say he's on 50k a week, the club won't be willing to fork it out for a player who won't be a regular. In my opinion though he would be, as even if he only started against the bottom half clubs and the last 20 mins against the others he'd make a big contribution 10 points easily, which would make us challenge for champs league at the moment. Keeping him off the pitchers of beer and on the football pitches every week is the only problem, which challenge Moyes clearly isn't up to. Didnt actually mean in financial terms I was thinking he is a luxury that our team can't afford with him being sloppy in possession and giving the ball away, our team isnt good enough to be able to cope with him dong that all the time, especially in our half because in premier league we will get punished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blueboy122 Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 yeah we have coleman to do the headless chicken thing..he's a grafter so he's 10 times better Exactly.. Who needs ability? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 Didnt actually mean in financial terms I was thinking he is a luxury that our team can't afford with him being sloppy in possession and giving the ball away, our team isnt good enough to be able to cope with him dong that all the time, especially in our half because in premier league we will get punished. Ah, my bad. Totally agree, but disagree at the same time ( to myself for the oxymoron) think he could be utilised an impact sub and against weaker opposition when he wouldnt have to be as defensive. From the reaction of Moyes today though he's a gonna anyway, wouldnt be surprised if he's already signed for the poo over the park. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blueboy122 Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 Ah, my bad. Totally agree, but disagree at the same time ( to myself for the oxymoron) think he could be utilised an impact sub and against weaker opposition when he wouldnt have to be as defensive. From the reaction of Moyes today though he's a gonna anyway, wouldnt be surprised if he's already signed for the poo over the park. Thats exactly why I am torn on him as I think he is a great player and has the potential to be a world beater. He is a perfect sub to bring on if we are losing however if its a tight game and we are drawing he would eithier go and win us the match or go and lose it or probably do both within 10 minutes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 Thats exactly why I am torn on him as I think he is a great player and has the potential to be a world beater. He is a perfect sub to bring on if we are losing however if its a tight game and we are drawing he would eithier go and win us the match or go and lose it or probably do both within 10 minutes! Very true. Moyes must have some hidden gems hiding in the reserves or lower leagues if he thinks we're better off without him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blueboy122 Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 Very true. Moyes must have some hidden gems hiding in the reserves or lower leagues if he thinks we're better off without him. We probably are best off without him in the long run, he would cause to much unrest in the dressing room with his playboy image Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 We probably are best off without him in the long run, he would cause to much unrest in the dressing room with his playboy image Thinking about his off field if it is true he's going to Liverpool it's probs for the piss up with Carroll and the rest of them. That said I'd love to have a pint with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 Didnt actually mean in financial terms I was thinking he is a luxury that our team can't afford with him being sloppy in possession and giving the ball away, our team isnt good enough to be able to cope with him dong that all the time, especially in our half because in premier league we will get punished. our defence with felli and gibson in front of it should be able to cope with pressure..drenthe could lose the ball yes but he could also take that pressure off if moyes leaves someone up from corners(haha i know) then he's perfect..it just grinds me cos i think moyes is at fault with him too...the guys an idiot but i believe if he was playing and happy he'd just get on with it...guess we'll never know...i just think at the shite they'll allow him to be his free self if he goes there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 yeah we have coleman to do the headless chicken thing..he's a grafter so he's 10 times better I would still rather give a tryer a chance than a guy who thinks he is better than our club....wouldn't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 he was never given a chance...he was told to defend more and that's not him...i'd rather give a player with ability the freedom to do what he wants on the pitch..coleman gives it away nearly every time too but cos he runs hard people don't get at him...at least drenthe gets end results too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 you really want players that think they are bigger than the club playing for us? The guy is taking this piss out of all of us......as a fan i go with the club over the player anyday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 you seem to be missing my point..my point is he never got a massive chance here..moyes tried to change his game..he shouldn't have got him in if he wanted him to defend..the guy is obviously a nut job at times who felt pissed off for not gettin the game time he thought(and i thought) he deserved..i don't want him now but i did and i wish moyes had handled him better and not tried to turn him into a coleman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted April 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 Pretty sure SAF had a few qualms about Ronaldo's defensive efforts (and when to do tricks) in his early man u days and to be fair it took him a good 3 years to become the top class player and then only his last couple of seasons at man u he looked world class. The top, top players need to have the ability to get back and get stuck in. So I don't think it's too much to ask to develop aspects of a players game who is nowhere near in that league! I don't think Moyes necessarily wanted to turn Roy into a defensive player he just wanted his workrate to improve get back and mucking in as much as going forward - a skill required in premier league football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 Moyes walked out of press conference after being asked about Drenthe. http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/4269721/David-Moyes-Everton-need-time-to-heal-after-FA-Cup-semi-final-exit-to-Liverpool.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 Moyes walked out of press conference after being asked about Drenthe. http://www.thesun.co...-Liverpool.html Obvious edit in the middle of that though...so no knowing what happened between the original question "Is that it as far as Roston's concerned?" The S*n misrepresenting what happened. Surprise . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 Pretty sure SAF had a few qualms about Ronaldo's defensive efforts (and when to do tricks) in his early man u days and to be fair it took him a good 3 years to become the top class player and then only his last couple of seasons at man u he looked world class. The top, top players need to have the ability to get back and get stuck in. So I don't think it's too much to ask to develop aspects of a players game who is nowhere near in that league! I don't think Moyes necessarily wanted to turn Roy into a defensive player he just wanted his workrate to improve get back and mucking in as much as going forward - a skill required in premier league football. possibly is needed but for me you let someone settle in by playing their natural game then adapt it...ronaldo settled into man utd then grafted a bit more...ferguson never held him back because of it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blueboy122 Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 Moyes walked out of press conference after being asked about Drenthe. http://www.thesun.co...-Liverpool.html Cant understand him walking out like that, very immature. Why doesnt he just come out and say.. Yes thats it, we wont be signing him or No its not a full gone conclusion that we wont sign him. Just fucking say something Moyes. What kind of game do you think he is playing? Do you think maybe he does want to sign him and playing it down.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted April 22, 2012 Report Share Posted April 22, 2012 As Mike suggested, it was repeated questioning and an edited video to make it look worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted April 22, 2012 Report Share Posted April 22, 2012 Saw a link to the Sun, didn't click Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted April 22, 2012 Report Share Posted April 22, 2012 I would have just embedded the video but it was an Ooyala one and I haven't added support for embedding them yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted April 22, 2012 Report Share Posted April 22, 2012 (edited) you really want players that think they are bigger than the club playing for us? The guy is taking this piss out of all of us......as a fan i go with the club over the player anyday. Whats this crap about him thinking he's bigger than the club? And taking the piss out of us? There has been a rumour about one incident, no one knows for a fact what the incident was, but its one fucking incident! If people were hung drawn and quartered over one incident at work i'd be out of a job a few times over, and im sure im not the only one! I turned up to work hung over and threw up in my hands infront of a queue of customers, and given another chance. I'm sure other less controversial players will have had incidents that have never made the press. Pretty sure SAF had a few qualms about Ronaldo's defensive efforts (and when to do tricks) in his early man u days and to be fair it took him a good 3 years to become the top class player and then only his last couple of seasons at man u he looked world class. The top, top players need to have the ability to get back and get stuck in. So I don't think it's too much to ask to develop aspects of a players game who is nowhere near in that league! I don't think Moyes necessarily wanted to turn Roy into a defensive player he just wanted his workrate to improve get back and mucking in as much as going forward - a skill required in premier league football. You said yourself, it took Ronaldo three years, Moyes wont turn Drenthe round in nine months. The thing is, we wont find a player with Drenthe's attacking ability for free, ok he will get decent wages, but point per pound I think he is a damn good option. Sell him after 12 months if it doesnt work out. Edited April 22, 2012 by StevO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted April 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2012 (edited) You said yourself, it took Ronaldo three years, Moyes wont turn Drenthe round in nine months. Difference being that Ronaldo seemed keen to learn/be the best. This is not the first and will not be the last club Drenthe has dicked about at. Moyes would have given him the time I'd imagine as his class is unquestionable but Roy's got to 'give' as well. Roy not playing has nothing to do with ability it's to do with him breaching club rules. Edited April 22, 2012 by c1982 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted April 22, 2012 Report Share Posted April 22, 2012 Difference being that Ronaldo seemed keen to learn/be the best. This is not the first and will not be the last club Drenthe has dicked about at. Moyes would have given him the time I'd imagine as his class is unquestionable but Roy's got to 'give' as well. Roy not playing has nothing to do with ability it's to do with him breaching club rules. I dont disagree with what your saying there, I just think a manager with the attitude to improve him rather than change him will get the best out of him. A manager like Kevin Keegan would have him scoring and making goals for fun. He did it with Asprilla who was a nut job of the highest order. He just needs the right kind of nurturing, and he hasnt had it yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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