thoward18 Posted December 28, 2012 Report Share Posted December 28, 2012 At the risk of pissing people off and/or saying anything offensive, I'd like to get a better understand of why the Monarchy still exists and what purpose it serves. Obviously I'm somewhat ignorant on exactly how things work and what goes on, but the way I see it... especially in an economy like this... why exactly does taxpayer money go to fund the ridiculously extravagant lives of a family whose claim to fame is being distantly related to the controlling powers of England 300+ years ago? Why does anyone care who the hell Kate Middleton is? Weren't there protests in London recently over college tuitions? And meanwhile the government is spending millions of dollars on a wedding? Is this a source of debate in the UK or is it just an accepted thing? Sorry if this comes off as ignorant in any way. Just trying to get a better understanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted December 28, 2012 Report Share Posted December 28, 2012 Good question. Wish someone would tell me the answer as well . marcopaulo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcus jones Posted December 28, 2012 Report Share Posted December 28, 2012 The queen is at the head of parliament, where by she has the power to pull the plug if say for eg Nick Griffin of the BNP (which undoubtedly is a far right political party) were to gain a majority in the house of commons where by the government of the day passed a bill (even though the house of lords can only force an amendment three times) of all black, gay or muslim to be shot or deported then the Queen can act to dissolve parliament. Where it goes from here I'm not sure but having sworn an oath to Her Majesty, the Army would then be used to enforce the rule of law that enables another election to take place. The above scenario is the most extreme I could think of. H.M armed forces and H.M goverment kinda gives it away.......................... Basically she is there to stop a government from being a monster........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted December 28, 2012 Report Share Posted December 28, 2012 How about I answer this one? Me not being British at all, a proud Irishman, socialist and democrat fyi. As an aside, Ireland is probably the best comparison of what a republican Britain would look like. Ireland's political system is almost a direct clone of the British system c1920 - with the monarch replaced with an elected President and the House of Lords replaced by a Senate. First of all, the monarchy is cheap. Really cheap. The royal household costs the taxpayer ~£30m a year. It's a pittance per person (In the region of 70p). This money is more than clawed back in various tourist and merchandise related taxes and jobs gained. Cost is not an argument against the monarchy, more an argument in favour. Second, the monarch is a unifying figurehead. It is an apolitical symbol of Britain's proud past and traditions. The pomp and circumstance surrounding the monarchy is as positive a display of nationalism possible. People from across the political divide can be proud of their monarchy. Elections can be divisive and bitter and about personalities. And that's even when you have serious policy issues to debate. Now imagine the election was for a position that had no policy powers (The Irish President for example). What is there to discuss besides personalities? Our Presidential Elections have a habit of being very bitter affairs (the previous one ending in the most bitter fashion with a live-on-TV decimation of the front-runner by Sinn Fein calling into the debate's producers and supplying incriminating information without any evidence). One only has to look at Britain in the 30s and 40s to see a nation that rejected fascism, had political unity and a monarchy that held public resolve together even as the bombs fell and defeat seemed imminent. Philosophically I disagree with monarchy in the hereditary sense, it is elitist and anathema to a equal, democratic state. But speaking pragmatically, the monarchy's benefits to Britain far outweigh its negatives. Bailey 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted December 28, 2012 Report Share Posted December 28, 2012 Philosophically I disagree with monarchy in the hereditary sense, it is elitist and anathema to a equal, democratic state. Can't see beyond this myself...screw pragmatism; don't see why I should have to bow and grovel and defer to anyone (wife aside ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thoward18 Posted December 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2012 How about I answer this one? Me not being British at all, a proud Irishman, socialist and democrat fyi. As an aside, Ireland is probably the best comparison of what a republican Britain would look like. Ireland's political system is almost a direct clone of the British system c1920 - with the monarch replaced with an elected President and the House of Lords replaced by a Senate. First of all, the monarchy is cheap. Really cheap. The royal household costs the taxpayer ~£30m a year. It's a pittance per person (In the region of 70p). This money is more than clawed back in various tourist and merchandise related taxes and jobs gained. Cost is not an argument against the monarchy, more an argument in favour. Second, the monarch is a unifying figurehead. It is an apolitical symbol of Britain's proud past and traditions. The pomp and circumstance surrounding the monarchy is as positive a display of nationalism possible. People from across the political divide can be proud of their monarchy. Elections can be divisive and bitter and about personalities. And that's even when you have serious policy issues to debate. Now imagine the election was for a position that had no policy powers (The Irish President for example). What is there to discuss besides personalities? Our Presidential Elections have a habit of being very bitter affairs (the previous one ending in the most bitter fashion with a live-on-TV decimation of the front-runner by Sinn Fein calling into the debate's producers and supplying incriminating information without any evidence). One only has to look at Britain in the 30s and 40s to see a nation that rejected fascism, had political unity and a monarchy that held public resolve together even as the bombs fell and defeat seemed imminent. Philosophically I disagree with monarchy in the hereditary sense, it is elitist and anathema to a equal, democratic state. But speaking pragmatically, the monarchy's benefits to Britain far outweigh its negatives. Alright, well this somewhat makes sense to me. Still, the idea to me that some kid is going to pop out of Kate Middleton and literally have a life of ridiculous and excessive riches handed to him/her thanks to goverment tax dollars while everyone else is struggling to pay mortgages makes me queasy. And though you make a good case for the ecnomics, I just don't understand the pretentious nature of it. I watched the movie The Queen a few years ago... I'm sure some of it was exaggerated and Tony Blair is a pushover, but the way he was expected to treat her seemed ridiculous to me. And it was a big deal when Michelle Obama PUT HER ARM around the Queen? Why the hell does that matter? "There is the "no-touch" rule, for example. The queen's visitors have to wait until she extends her hand to take it, and they are not supposed to grip it tightly or pump it, said Rachel Kelly, a public relations executive at VisitBritain, the U.K.'s official tourism office." (from this article) God forbid someone hold her hand too tight. Or reach out to her first. That just seems absolutely pretentious and ridiculous to me. There are a number of absolutely incredible people from the UK. Richard Dawkins is one that comes to mind. Someone who has worked hard and earned his place in the world and has done so much for the promotion of learning, science and equal rights. He doesn't get a special set of petty rules. But some woman who was literally born into relevance does? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcus jones Posted December 28, 2012 Report Share Posted December 28, 2012 I'm no fan of the Queen but she really is the point of call should a government try to install a dictatorship, therefore I would like to keep her where she is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted December 28, 2012 Report Share Posted December 28, 2012 Lol, probably the worst question an American can put to an Englishman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcus jones Posted December 28, 2012 Report Share Posted December 28, 2012 Lol, probably the worst question an American can put to an Englishman. Off with his head! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted December 28, 2012 Report Share Posted December 28, 2012 Alright, well this somewhat makes sense to me. Still, the idea to me that some kid is going to pop out of Kate Middleton and literally have a life of ridiculous and excessive riches handed to him/her thanks to goverment tax dollars while everyone else is struggling to pay mortgages makes me queasy. And though you make a good case for the ecnomics, I just don't understand the pretentious nature of it. I watched the movie The Queen a few years ago... I'm sure some of it was exaggerated and Tony Blair is a pushover, but the way he was expected to treat her seemed ridiculous to me. And it was a big deal when Michelle Obama PUT HER ARM around the Queen? Why the hell does that matter? "There is the "no-touch" rule, for example. The queen's visitors have to wait until she extends her hand to take it, and they are not supposed to grip it tightly or pump it, said Rachel Kelly, a public relations executive at VisitBritain, the U.K.'s official tourism office." (from this article) God forbid someone hold her hand too tight. Or reach out to her first. That just seems absolutely pretentious and ridiculous to me. There are a number of absolutely incredible people from the UK. Richard Dawkins is one that comes to mind. Someone who has worked hard and earned his place in the world and has done so much for the promotion of learning, science and equal rights. He doesn't get a special set of petty rules. But some woman who was literally born into relevance does? Dawkins probably not the best example seeing as he is very much a white, old man. (http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/07/05/richard-dawkins-and-male-privilege/#.UN2gGqX7WTc). There are plenty of ridiculous and pretentious things about every country - the protocol around the monarch is a bit out-dated, but it'll be liberalised when William takes the throne. The monarchy will probably head down the Scandinavian/Dutch model in the next while. pete0 and Bailey 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalziel Kane Posted December 28, 2012 Report Share Posted December 28, 2012 They serve no purpose and get saturation coverage for even the most immaterial of events. I don't like to talk about the British royal family or this government in any capacity if I can help it. Horrible bunch of cunts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oztoffee Posted December 28, 2012 Report Share Posted December 28, 2012 The Royals must continue. I only get 5 mins of quiet a couple of times a week when the wife reads the women's magazines! Without the Royals there would be no women's mags as there would be little else to write about. Mind you, they already write crap about almost everything and the womenfolk just lap it up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted December 28, 2012 Report Share Posted December 28, 2012 IanC pretty much sums it up perfectly. I like the Royals, they might not have any 'real' power but they are an important political figurehead and they more than pay their way. The real problem is the damn politicians who like to think they can do what they like and increase the taxes on the people who work hard and hand it over to the people who cant be arsed to find a job. Dont even get me started on the modern liberties of so called 'prisoners'! pete0 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted December 28, 2012 Report Share Posted December 28, 2012 I think they pay their way regarding London. The rest of the country gets sod all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalziel Kane Posted December 29, 2012 Report Share Posted December 29, 2012 All the Royal Family should be scooped up and put in a big fucking incinerator. The Queen's half German and half Greek of all things, and if any one of them has the slightest incident, such as a sprained ankle or declares a vacation somewhere, it's splashed all over the damn papers. When they had that Diamond jubilee thing here back in the spring I took off out of the country for a few days. Who needs to hang around for that bullshit. Just can't abide the Royals and all that it entails, there's no sense in lying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted December 29, 2012 Report Share Posted December 29, 2012 Basically the Monarchy are there as a preventative, to stop the Prime Minister becoming a dictator. The government can make the laws and do the 'governing' generally, but the monarch, despite being mostly powerless can act as the brakes in dire circumstances, and has as already been said, the armed forced take a vow of allegience to the monarch, not the government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted December 29, 2012 Report Share Posted December 29, 2012 All the Royal Family should be scooped up and put in a big fucking incinerator. The Queen's half German and half Greek of all things, and if any one of them has the slightest incident, such as a sprained ankle or declares a vacation somewhere, it's splashed all over the damn papers. When they had that Diamond jubilee thing here back in the spring I took off out of the country for a few days. Who needs to hang around for that bullshit. Just can't abide the Royals and all that it entails, there's no sense in lying. The Queen was born in UK of a British mother and a King who was also born in UK, so I am at a loss as to how she can be half German and half Greek? pete0 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted December 29, 2012 Report Share Posted December 29, 2012 The Queen was born in UK of a British mother and a King who was also born in UK, so I am at a loss as to how she can be half German and half Greek? Imperial halves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcus jones Posted December 29, 2012 Report Share Posted December 29, 2012 Basically the Monarchy are there as a preventative, to stop the Prime Minister becoming a dictator. The government can make the laws and do the 'governing' generally, but the monarch, despite being mostly powerless can act as the brakes in dire circumstances, and has as already been said, the armed forced take a vow of allegience to the monarch, not the government. Nicely put Rubes!! rubecula 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted December 29, 2012 Report Share Posted December 29, 2012 Thank you Jona. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted December 29, 2012 Report Share Posted December 29, 2012 Are they our new imminent investors ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted December 29, 2012 Report Share Posted December 29, 2012 Are they our new imminent investors ? That would be nice but we would have to change our name to Royal (or Real) Everton. Still we do wear the right colours Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted December 29, 2012 Report Share Posted December 29, 2012 Can you imagine Fellaini having to Curtsy before leaving the field? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted December 29, 2012 Report Share Posted December 29, 2012 I thought the blokes just bowed or do you know something I don't? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted December 29, 2012 Report Share Posted December 29, 2012 I thought the blokes just bowed or do you know something I don't? You are correct. Hence why the Queen only invited me for tea the once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thoward18 Posted July 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2013 Is this baby something that England as a whole actually cares about or is it just tabloid crap for supermarket shelves and 40-year-old-women who have nothing better to do to get worked up about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted July 22, 2013 Report Share Posted July 22, 2013 you couldn't fathom how much of a shit i don't give thoward18 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonButtle Posted July 22, 2013 Report Share Posted July 22, 2013 Is this baby something that England as a whole actually cares about or is it just tabloid crap for supermarket shelves and 40-year-old-women who have nothing better to do to get worked up about? Alarmingly people do seem to be getting a little worked up about it, can't stand the royals wish they would all just do one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted July 22, 2013 Report Share Posted July 22, 2013 Is this baby something that England as a whole actually cares about or is it just tabloid crap for supermarket shelves and 40-year-old-women who have nothing better to do to get worked up about? theres a baby on the way? and to answer the initial thread question.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted July 22, 2013 Report Share Posted July 22, 2013 Don't care about it at all, but equally I don't understand why there is so much animosity towards the Royal family from people who don't even know them. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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