Official Knee Jerk thread 14/15

[Paddock]

What concerns me most is the character within whichever eleven is on the pitch when things go against us. Already, far too many times this season I have seen us start a game well, be looking threatening up front, tight at the back, fluid in midfield, then, usually around the 20-30 minute mark someone has a brain-fart and we go 0-1 down against the run of play. A team that has character, believes in itself, each other and its playing philosophy merely shrugs it off, gets their head down and runs out 3-1 or 4-1 winners. We collapse like a ton of bricks and any belief that was there seems to instantly disappear. Worse, we then seem to carry the mental scars over to the next game and are unable to play out from the back, lose all fluidity in midfield and pose no threat whatsoever up front.

Fitness issues caused by a poorly organised pre season might have played a small part but for me the biggest problem is inside the players heads. They are being talked about publicly by RM as if they are world beaters but they know they are not. The disconnect is, in my opinion, causing major problems with inner belief in almost all of our players and its not something that anyone other than RM can fix - and he shows no signs of even addressing the problem.

We will finish bottom half, go out of FA Cup and Europa League at the earliest stages and have nothing to play for by January (apart from a relegation scrap) unless RM changes his approach, looks in the mirror and realises that the Emperor is not wearing any clothes!

A fucking men brother. Absolutely spot on.

[Lowensda]

My biggest worry is that we took liberties yesterday (no pun intended).

 

League cup is a route back to Europe, something that other teams have stopped us from achieving by winning the competition. On League position alone, we should have been in Europe at least 3 times in the last 4 years but because of non-'Top4' clubs winning the cups, we've lost out. Now, this year we WILL struggle, said it from the off. Our league position will take a knock as a result of Europa, it's been proven by other team's league performances in recent years.

 

With that in mind, the only ways of us getting back into Europe next year are:

 

Winning the FA cup - still possible but have to win the FA cup (still think one of the big boys will WANT it and go all out this year).

Winning the League Cup - We're already out of the League Cup.

Winning the Europa League - To get into the CL, the biggest ask of them all, incredibly slim.

League Position - Already stated, think we'll fall a few places from last year.

Fair play - Very Very slim chance.

 

League Cup was our easiest route back and I can't help but think we've fucked ourselves over a little.

[Cornish Steve]

One small correction...

 

Winning the FA cup - still possible but have to win the FA cup (still think one of the OTHER big boys will WANT it and go all out this year).

[Brett Angel]

Not worried. If we play his style of play we will win more than we lose. Not many teams can say they dominate games and get beat. Our heart wasn't in it last night. If we played full strength we would have won it end of.

My only concern is we should have real competition for places but if Baines or Coleman get injured we are fucked cause last night proved that thats where most of our set up play comes from and teams ate pegged bag because of them.

We will come good. We just need to dart putting early chances away. Last night I thought both teams were shit, it was a really poor game.

Get a good win under our belt on saturday (even thougthough I'm not confident) and we will kick on from there.

I did say some fans expectations were way too high this season. Understandably u would be concerned in the manner if defeats but this is stuff that can be eradicated on the training pitch. The coaching staff need to look hard at themselves also. Not all hanging over bobby.

[Cornish Steve]

Actually, I thought that Garbutt did well as a replacement for Baines. His crosses and corners, in particular, were excellent. It's right back where we struggle.

[Newty82]

Sounds familiar

Exactly.

 

Laughing at some of this stuff. Gonna be a great thread.

[Howardshands]

My knee-jerk worries are our defense, our confidence, and the fact that our stalwarts are inexplicably (and consistently) poor.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

My biggest worry is that we took liberties yesterday (no pun intended).

 

League cup is a route back to Europe, something that other teams have stopped us from achieving by winning the competition. On League position alone, we should have been in Europe at least 3 times in the last 4 years but because of non-'Top4' clubs winning the cups, we've lost out. Now, this year we WILL struggle, said it from the off. Our league position will take a knock as a result of Europa, it's been proven by other team's league performances in recent years.

 

With that in mind, the only ways of us getting back into Europe next year are:

 

Winning the FA cup - still possible but have to win the FA cup (still think one of the big boys will WANT it and go all out this year).

Winning the League Cup - We're already out of the League Cup.

Winning the Europa League - To get into the CL, the biggest ask of them all, incredibly slim.

League Position - Already stated, think we'll fall a few places from last year.

Fair play - Very Very slim chance.

 

League Cup was our easiest route back and I can't help but think we've fucked ourselves over a little.

 

 

That's very true but the League Cup has always represented our best chance of getting into Europe and we have always turned our back on it by putting out makeshift sides. Personally Im delighted that we actually got beaten by a Premiership side this season as it saves us the embarrassment of going out to yet another lower league team

 

This happens every season without fail and is precisely why I couldn't be arsed to watch or listen to it. The best I could muster was to pop in here to see how shite we were doing

 

However Bobby does need to have a bit of a reality check and start calling a spade a spade

 

http://royalbluemersey.sbnation.com/2014/9/24/6836093/martinez-decisions-leave-supporters-scratching-heads-everton-swansea-league-cup

[Cornish Steve]

Pretty decent assessment, I thought.

 

http://prosoccertalk.nbcsports.com/2014/09/24/deconstructing-everton-whats-gone-wrong-and-stopping-the-rot/

[MC11]

Pretty decent assessment, I thought.

 

http://prosoccertalk.nbcsports.com/2014/09/24/deconstructing-everton-whats-gone-wrong-and-stopping-the-rot/

I think that writer needs to do his homework.... He says McGeady (along with Naismith) has been Barkleys replacement. Then goes on to say "But McGeady is better on the wing"

[Lowensda]

I think that writer needs to do his homework.... He says McGeady (along with Naismith) has been Barkleys replacement. Then goes on to say "But McGeady is better on the wing"

 

He mis-spelt Bench.

[Bailey]

When it comes to Everton and my family then yes I am emotional, everything else just passes me by tbh.

If you go back and read my comments I've always been wary of Martinez and always stated so. He got lucky last season Bailey and this seasin is already compounding my fears. It'll take more than a win at Anfield to convert me mate it really will.

Haha yeh used to be exactly the same when I was younger. I have grown out of it a little more but can't help myself at times. If we lost it used to ruin my day/weekend but now it's only until I have vented! Ha

 

I know what your trying to say Paddock but you can't get lucky over the course or a season when you have outperformed your best ever points tally. If we had got 5th with 60 points I would agree with your reasoning but over 38 games you can't just get lucky.

[Paddock]

Haha yeh used to be exactly the same when I was younger. I have grown out of it a little more but can't help myself at times. If we lost it used to ruin my day/weekend but now it's only until I have vented! Ha

 

I know what your trying to say Paddock but you can't get lucky over the course or a season when you have outperformed your best ever points tally. If we had got 5th with 60 points I would agree with your reasoning but over 38 games you can't just get lucky.

Fair point mate, you can't but that defence still had Moyes mentality and mind-set the team wasn't engrained with Martinez style of play but this season it is and in my eyes it's really starting to show.

 

Yer I do get over emotional over Everton, I know it's stupid, I'm 41 I should know better but I can't help it it just burns inside me, I genuinely get a lump in my throat when I'm inside Goodison and z cars starts, sometimes I swat away a stray tear. Does that make me a saddo? Maybe it does but it's just the way I am and how I feel about the club, I love it. Not the players or manager or chairman but the club. It's my club and I'll support and stand by it no matter what. I'll have my moans and opinions but they are never about the actual club but always about the people who are entrusted to do right by it.

[Matt]

Fair point mate, you can't but that defence still had Moyes mentality and mind-set the team wasn't engrained with Martinez style of play but this season it is and in my eyes it's really starting to show.

 

Yer I do get over emotional over Everton, I know it's stupid, I'm 41 I should know better but I can't help it it just burns inside me, I genuinely get a lump in my throat when I'm inside Goodison and z cars starts, sometimes I swat away a stray tear. Does that make me a saddo? Maybe it does but it's just the way I am and how I feel about the club, I love it. Not the players or manager or chairman but the club. It's my club and I'll support and stand by it no matter what. I'll have my moans and opinions but they are never about the actual club but always about the people who are entrusted to do right by it.

To be honest, I'm the same. Really hoping that having a kid will help me be less emotional towards the team I love. I'm convinced Everton are responsible for my high blood pressure before I was 30

[MC11]

That wonder strike by Jagielka has bailed Martinez out of the shit as far as I'm concerned. That was a terrible performance. The only positives I can take from it was a fairly decent defensive display, mainly on behalf of Stones. Jagielka did play well to be fair and Howard had a decent game (bar the goal). That's all the positives though.

 

On a whole it was a typical a Everton performance at Anfield, absolutely toothless in the final third. Did we even have an attempt from inside their box?

 

What was the point of the 3 defensive minded midfielders? who all have no ability in the final 3rd. I said in the game thread we were heavily reliant on the wide players creating because of this. With Hibbert playing, another of the usual wide attacking outlets was not available. We never really looked capable. McCarthy for me has been pants for the majority of the season. He stands off all the time and allows teams to play the ball around him. He offers energy and that's about it. The word overrated sums him up perfectly because if we aren't in control of a game he becomes a passenger and people are blinded by his work rate. He very rarely breaks play up.

 

They were no great shakers either but they got the better of us in most departments today. The loss of Mirallas is huge, especially with Barkley still out and questions of Pienaars fitness. That allows more time for Mcgeady who needs a rocket up his arse.... He has major talents but uses it in tiny percentages.

 

This could just be a blip but I'm starting to think that the manager just isn't as great as we thought. I thought he set the team up wrong. I thought his substitutions were very late especially Eto'os.

[Cornish Steve]

I thought his substitutions were very late especially Eto'os.

 

Right now, he's not managing each game in isolation. Playing so many games in such a short period, you have to think carefully about bringing on any subs, let alone bringing them on late. Liverpool away, Krasnodar away, and United away - all in the space of a week. The pressure is really on.

[Bailey]

This forum makes me laugh. We ship too many goals but still score lots and people complain we are too open. We defend well on the whole but don't create a great deal and we set up too defensive.

 

We ship late goals and we are too soft. We pull goals back late and we get lucky.

 

Either way it's all Martinez fault. He picked the wrong team, wrong subs, he didn't frown enough on the touchline, he says all the wrong things before and after games, he is far too positive for us negative Evertonians and to top it off he even wears brown shoes with a black or grey suit. What a cunt.

[MC11]

He hasn't found the balance though has he Bailey. We either ship plenty or can't get inside the oppositions box. There wasn't any clear cut opportunity for us today. He played 3 defensive midfielders who can't operate in the final third. You can say he played it safe in fear of a similar result to last season. But he got it completely wrong again. As I say the wonder strike bailed him out the shit.

 

Get your head out of his arse.

[Bailey]

You can say a wonder free kick or bad keeping stopped us from winning.

 

I'm certainly not saying we were perfect but if you want to be more defensively solid you need to hold back to a certain extent on the attacking. Only the best teams in the world have that perfect blend of attack and defence especially up against a decent team like Liverpool. It's amazing that you aren't a manager yourself as you make everything sound so simple.

[MC11]

You can say a wonder free kick or bad keeping stopped us from winning.

I'm certainly not saying we were perfect but if you want to be more defensively solid you need to hold back to a certain extent on the attacking. Only the best teams in the world have that perfect blend of attack and defence especially up against a decent team like Liverpool. It's amazing that you aren't a manager yourself as you make everything sound so simple.

The balance was fine last season. He's been playing 4-3-3 all season. Instead of 4-2-3-1

 

It definitely wasn't a wonder free kick. It was bad keeping. But that was another rubbish performance we had virtually no clear cut chances we were restricted to long range shots. There was no creator and that's why I backed Lukaku today because at least he was looking to go forward. His touch was terrible and he lost the ball a lot but a lot if players his today!

Edited September 27, 2014 by MiguelCotto

[Matt]

The balance was fine last season. He's been playing 4-3-3 all season. Instead of 4-2-3-1

 

It definitely wasn't a wonder free kick. It was bad keeping. But that was another rubbish performance we had virtually no clear cut chances we were restricted to long range shots. There was no creator and that's why I backed Lukaku today because at least he was looking to go forward. His touch was terrible and he lost the ball a lot but a lot if players his today!

So far as I know this was the first time he has played 433, otherwise its been 4231 all season.

[MC11]

So far as I know this was the first time he has played 433, otherwise its been 4231 all season.

 

It ain't Matt, I've mentioned the high wide players week in week out. He's been playing 3 upfront all season

[Matt]

It ain't Matt, I've mentioned the high wide players week in week out. He's been playing 3 upfront all season

So who is the other CM?

 

On another point, I heard that Guinness book of records have put Lukaku in there as the most expensive scapegoat.

[Newty82]

So who is the other CM?

 

On another point, I heard that Guinness book of records have put Lukaku in there as the most expensive scapegoat.

Exactly. That's the question that ends the debate.

 

Then again, I might be wrong. Over to Cotto! Who is this mysterious 3rd CM we have been using in this 4-3-3???

[Romey 1878]

Fuck, Cotto I've just deleted your post by accident. I apologise, it was a hefty one as well!

[MC11]

Lol

[MC11]

I'll go again:

 

We have been playing with 3 upfront. The wide players acting as forwards that is very evident. We did this once last year. Against Arsenal at home but only then.

 

It's been the two wide players and either Lukaku as the spear head or Naismith as the false 9.

 

If Lukaku has been the spear head Naismith has been playing in the hole. If Naismith has been the false 9 it's been Osman in the hole. However when we've defended with Osman in the hole he's dropped to the left and it's became a flat 3 of McCarthy, Barry & Osman. When Naismith has been in the hole he's obviously stayed as an AM.

 

So the formations I've seen have either been:

 

4-2-1-3 or 4-3-3 but the point here is it's always been 3 forwards.

[Matt]

I'll go again:

We have been playing with 3 upfront. The wide players acting as forwards that is very evident. We did this once last year. Against Arsenal at home but only then.

It's been the two wide players and either Lukaku as the spear head or Naismith as the false 9.

If Lukaku has been the spear head Naismith has been playing in the hole. If Naismith has been the false 9 it's been Osman in the hole. However when we've defended with Osman in the hole he's dropped to the left and it's became a flat 3 of McCarthy, Barry & Osman. When Naismith has been in the hole he's obviously stayed as an AM.

So the formations I've seen have either been:

4-2-1-3 or 4-3-3 but the point here is it's always been 3 forwards.

Agree to disagree, simply because I've seen us play 4 attacking in front of 2 DCMs. Every time, except yesterday.

[MC11]

Agree to disagree, simply because I've seen us play 4 attacking in front of 2 DCMs. Every time, except yesterday.

For example look at this season Arsenal at Home - Osman pulling off to the left in a flat 3. See Girouds goal.

 

Again a Palace at Home - see their 3rd goal. Again Osman dropped off to the left in a flat 3. Gave ball away for their 3rd

[Matt]

For example look at this season Arsenal at Home - Osman pulling off to the left in a flat 3. See Girouds goal.

Again a Palace at Home - see their 3rd goal. Again Osman dropped off to the left in a flat 3. Gave ball away for their 3rd

Like I say, agree to disagree. Yes, we change formation when defending, but that is not how we setup, which was my point. We set up as usual 4231 and adapt to the demands of the game, using the 433 as you mentioned, as required. Yesterday was the first time we setup 433 to begin with.