Guest millwallforever Posted September 25, 2014 Report Share Posted September 25, 2014 I have identified four main culprits whose shortcomings serve to explain our poor start to the season. 1) Tim Howard: this man has to be the most overrated goalkeeper in the EPL. His distribution has always been below par, his dithering often lets him down, tends to chicken out during one-on-ones, and concedes too many goals at his near post. Now is the time to cash in on this guy: his stock is still high after the world cup and clubs in the MSL would be willing to pay more than his actual worth. 2) Phil Jagielka: As much as I like Jags, it must be conceded that he is not Martinez's type of defender. Everton's new style of play does not suit Jags at all. He appears to be in panic mode when he receives the ball from Howard and frequently causes problems for the midfielders by passing the ball to them although they have the opposition breathing down their necks. Furthermore, Jags is too much of a nice guy; there is not an iota of cynicism in him. Pulling, pinching, and creative treading of toes are essential components to the defensive game, and it is dirty tricks like these that have made crooks like Ivanovic and Terry into respected and even feared defenders. These are alien concepts to Jags, because he is simply not that kind of guy. I bet he's a submissive husband as well. 3) Sylvain Distin: If Jags is the nice guy, Distin is the very incarnation of Bambi. Add to this his habit of committing clumsy fouls in dangerous areas and there is only one conclusion that can be drawn: liability. 4) Gareth Barry: This might surprise some, because there are so many things that Barry does well. Collecting the ball from the defenders and passing it along in a clear-headed manner, not afraid of lunging into challenges, and cynical (read: dirty) when required by the circumstances. But did anyone notice how slow Barry is? What he provides in terms of security is counter-balanced by his lack of dynamism, and this in turn impedes the attacking dimension to McCarthy's game. Remedies to the foregoing: 1) Joel Robles (!): Southall used to be a shaky goalkeeper when he was 24 years of age. He was dropped from the team and loaned to a club in the fourth division. It is absolutely ridiculous to write off a goalkeeper, no more than 24 years of age, who has not even played 10 full games for Everton. Yes, Robles needs to work on his distribution and decision-making, but if he really had been that dire, Martinez would have purchased another goalkeeper by now. Postpone your verdict until Robles has played at least a dozen consecutive games. People often give Howard benefit of the doubt; they should extending the same goodwill to Robles. From what I have seen, Robles is extremely competent in one-on-one situations; where Howard is wont to chickening out, as against John Terry at Stamford last season, Robles typically stands his ground and is not afraid of diving into a challenge, reminiscent of Southall. Robles is a very able goalkeeper who deserves the chance to prove his worth. 2) John Stones: I have never seen a British defender as comfortable on the ball as Stones: He is yet to add cynicism to his game, and once he has done that, he will be a very accomplished defender indeed. 3) Sign a new defender. 4) Mo Besic: This guy is a complete Psycho with balls of steel. That sublime backheel against Chelsea and attempting to dribble his way out of the penalty area against Swansea are ample indicators of the kind of arrogance that Martinez's lauds among his players. This guy will come good, but I also suspect that the day will come when he will consider himself bigger than the club. That interview he gave to a Bosnian magazine a few weeks ago had me worried. Hopefully Big Dunc will knock some sense into our hot-blooded Bosniak. MikeO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted September 25, 2014 Report Share Posted September 25, 2014 Agree with the latter points but would disagree with the criticism in the 1st four points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted September 25, 2014 Report Share Posted September 25, 2014 I can't agree with the Robles point. He's shocking, no faith in him at all. Stones should be playing anyway and I really don't see the problem with Distin. Barry has done ok. No need to be looking to replace him. McCarthy has had a worse start to the season. He just backs off when players run at him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest millwallforever Posted September 25, 2014 Report Share Posted September 25, 2014 (edited) Maybe my memory is failing me, but I can recall only one howler by Robles in an official game for Everton: namely against Southampton. If I am missing out on any, please provide me with video links. What I do know is that there is a fair amount of unfounded accusations being hurled at Robles, e.g., that he had a stinker against Arsenal in the FA-cup. Well, I have had another look at the goals and I cannot see how Robles can be held accountable for any of the goals conceded: Robles's error against Southampton may have been lamentable, but it was nowhere close to burlesque antics of Howard over the years. Imagine if this had been Robles and not Howard: Howard typically gets away with crimes for which Robles would have been nailed to the cross. I can't agree with the Robles point. He's shocking, no faith in him at all.Stones should be playing anyway and I really don't see the problem with Distin.Barry has done ok. No need to be looking to replace him. McCarthy has had a worse start to the season. He just backs off when players run at him. Edited September 25, 2014 by millwallforever Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted September 25, 2014 Report Share Posted September 25, 2014 Robles is dodgy. He can't kick for a start. In general he has me like a bag of nerves anytime the ball goes near him. Also his insistence to punch everything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted September 25, 2014 Report Share Posted September 25, 2014 For the record, I too think that Robles is quite capable. He needs a steady run of games. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted September 25, 2014 Report Share Posted September 25, 2014 For the record, I too think that Robles is quite capable. He needs a steady run of games. On what evidence Steve? Honestly the crowd grasps everytime the ball goes near him. He's not a good keeper at present and by that I mean he doesn't do the simple things well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest millwallforever Posted September 25, 2014 Report Share Posted September 25, 2014 I know several Atletico fans who rate him highly and who were sad to see him leave, he belongs to a generation of very talented Spanish goalkeepers, and he pushed a keeper of Al-Habsi's stature out of the team. An eccentric clown like Grobelaar always kept the Kopites on their toes, precisely because he had a strange approach to the simplest of procedures, yet that did not stop him from being one of the best. On what evidence Steve? Honestly the crowd grasps everytime the ball goes near him. He's not a good keeper at present and by that I mean he doesn't do the simple things well. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted September 25, 2014 Report Share Posted September 25, 2014 I know several Atletico fans who rate him highly and who were sad to see him leave, he belongs to a generation of very talented Spanish goalkeepers, and he pushed a keeper of Al-Habsi's stature out of the team. An eccentric clown like Grobelaar always kept the Kopites on their toes, precisely because he had a strange approach to the simplest of procedures, yet that did not stop him from being one of the best. I don't agree. If he was "that" good Atletico would never have let him go. Especially at that fee. You look how much they sold De Gea for, who he grew up through the youth team with. Let's be honest Al Habsi isn't a world beater either. I just totally disagree that Robles should play. Howard's a better keeper even when out of form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Angel Posted September 26, 2014 Report Share Posted September 26, 2014 I don't agree. If he was "that" good Atletico would never have let him go. Especially at that fee. You look how much they sold De Gea for, who he grew up through the youth team with. Let's be honest Al Habsi isn't a world beater either. I just totally disagree that Robles should play. Howard's a better keeper even when out of for I really don't get the logic in you. You don't want Robles in goal cause he looks dodgy but your quite happy with an Eratic clown in goal making mistake after mistake. What is the point in even having a second keeper if we will never use it for "competition of places" He looked fine in the Wigan goal and he has not had enough game time to prove himself. You can't stick with Howard just because of your insecurity for Robles ability cause Tim will just keep making mistake after mistake. Joe hart had some shockers and was dropped. They brought him back in when they deemed fit. Can't remember how city ended up that season. Please tell me :-) Bailey 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted September 26, 2014 Report Share Posted September 26, 2014 I don't agree. If he was "that" good Atletico would never have let him go. Especially at that fee. You look how much they sold De Gea for, who he grew up through the youth team with. Let's be honest Al Habsi isn't a world beater either. I just totally disagree that Robles should play. Howard's a better keeper even when out of form. They had Thibaut Courtois and Robles was 3rd choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest millwallforever Posted September 26, 2014 Report Share Posted September 26, 2014 They had Thibaut Courtois and Robles was 3rd choice. "After de Gea was signed by Manchester United in the off-season, Joel was made first-choice by newly appointed manager Gregorio Manzano, but he lost his position after only three official games, to Belgian Thibaut Courtois." (Wikipedia) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted September 26, 2014 Report Share Posted September 26, 2014 (edited) They had Thibaut Courtois and Robles was 3rd choice. Yes, he was that good they brought another keeper in and sold him Edited September 26, 2014 by MiguelCotto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted September 26, 2014 Report Share Posted September 26, 2014 I really don't get the logic in you. You don't want Robles in goal cause he looks dodgy but your quite happy with an Eratic clown in goal making mistake after mistake. What is the point in even having a second keeper if we will never use it for "competition of places" He looked fine in the Wigan goal and he has not had enough game time to prove himself. You can't stick with Howard just because of your insecurity for Robles ability cause Tim will just keep making mistake after mistake. Joe hart had some shockers and was dropped. They brought him back in when they deemed fit. Can't remember how city ended up that season. Please tell me :-) Robles going in goal will only make us more unstable. Howard is a much better keeper than Robles. You can try and twist it against him as much as you like at the end of the day I still have more confidence in Howard. That's not going to change over one bad game. duncanmckenzieismagic 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluenosetoffee Posted September 26, 2014 Report Share Posted September 26, 2014 Tim Howard isn't overrated, he is having a bad spell at the moment but I am confident he will come out of it stronger than ever. The amount of games he has kept us in as well. He is a big player and having him in nets gives me more confidence than if we were to have Robles in. I agree not to write him off either but stick with FA Cup for now. He doesn't catch the ball, he doesn't get down quick enough, doesn't close players down and doesn't use his voice to control his defenders. If Robles was in nets for the first 5 games we would be conceding more than normal. I remember when De Gea started for United and he was shaky as fook but now if one of the best goalkeepers in the league. The difference being United had a good defence so took the pressure of him a bit. With our defence the way it is we would literally chucking him in the deep end. I agree with Jagielka, since the WC he seems to have lost any pace he did have. Still a good player but it is safe to say his best days are behind him. Distin is quick and manages to track back quickly. I can't recall any clumsy fouls this season that Jags hasn't made either. This weekend if Coleman is out I would start Hibbert on the right with Stones and Distin in the middle. I also agree with signing a new defender. Alcaraz isn I can't agree with Barry though, it is working that combination at the moment. McCarthy the workhorse that he is running all the time and Barry making the important tackles/interceptions. It is a bit like Gerrard and Henderson combination. The whole team is playing bad at the moment and to drop Barry for Besic wouldn't be the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted September 26, 2014 Report Share Posted September 26, 2014 Yes, he was that good they brought another keeper in and sold him He was already 3rd choice, because he was young. He went back after a loan spell, after hearing that Roberto wanted him, and asked to leave so he could get more game time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted September 26, 2014 Report Share Posted September 26, 2014 He was already 3rd choice, because he was young. He went back after a loan spell, after hearing that Roberto wanted him, and asked to leave so he could get more game time. That's gone well for him . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted September 26, 2014 Report Share Posted September 26, 2014 That's gone well for him . He got cup games... Last season... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted September 26, 2014 Report Share Posted September 26, 2014 One of our major weak links this season is Roberto Martinez I reckon. As big a weak link as the defence has been. SimonButtle and Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted September 26, 2014 Report Share Posted September 26, 2014 On what evidence Steve? Honestly the crowd grasps everytime the ball goes near him. He's not a good keeper at present and by that I mean he doesn't do the simple things well. As was mentioned earlier, he's made few mistakes. Nervousness emanates from (1) he's not played many first-team games, and goalkeeping has to be the most difficult position for a player to sit for months on end on the bench, and (2) his style is quite different from Tim Howard and others. One obvious example is that he punches the ball a lot more. In a sense, I hope he doesn't get a string of games, because it would have to be because Tim Howard is injured. On the other hand, it's the only way he can prove himself for the longer term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted September 26, 2014 Report Share Posted September 26, 2014 I think one of our weakest links is fickle fans It never ceases to amaze me how quickly some Everton fans will turn on the team (some players more then others) and the negativity and apprehension in the crowd obviously filters through into the players Sibdane, Quinn31, Lowensda and 1 other 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted September 26, 2014 Report Share Posted September 26, 2014 I think one of our weakest links is fickle fans It never ceases to amaze me how quickly some Everton fans will turn on the team (some players more then others) and the negativity and apprehension in the crowd obviously filters through into the players I think 17 goals conceded in 7 games is cause for concern, especially how most have come about. Leicester - 2 points dropped from winning position Arsenal - 2 points dropped from winning position Chelsea - less said the better Palace - 3 points dropped from winning position Swansea.... Ok, the League Cup just hurt, plain and simple. May not have been the most important game but it was the manner in which it was lost. As for the league games, that record is simply unacceptable and frustrations are extremely valid. For me, its compounded by our manager continuing with a charm offensive and seemingly ignoring / oblivious to the very big issues! 5 games is not quickly turning on a team, its acknowledging a very worrying trend, intensified by the manner of the losses and the managers comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest millwallforever Posted September 26, 2014 Report Share Posted September 26, 2014 People pay quite a lot of money to watch the games of their favourite team. To criticise trends and factors with which they are unhappy is their right. Even those who are vocal and perhaps even unreasonable in their criticism typically get behind the team when the game is on. In other words: what you are saying appears to me as a rather poor attempt at in-group cohesion. I think one of our weakest links is fickle fans It never ceases to amaze me how quickly some Everton fans will turn on the team (some players more then others) and the negativity and apprehension in the crowd obviously filters through into the players Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted September 26, 2014 Report Share Posted September 26, 2014 (edited) One of our major weak links this season is Roberto Martinez I reckon. As big a weak link as the defence has been. Yeps Edited September 26, 2014 by Paddock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest millwallforever Posted September 26, 2014 Report Share Posted September 26, 2014 (edited) I agree with your summary of the all that has gone wrong thus far, but I think it is important to distinguish the exoteric Martinez from the esoteric. It's the manager's job to communicate with media, and they all have their own peculiar way of performing their their duty. Redknapp in frivolous, Mourinho is smug, Rodgers is pseudoprofound, and Martinez...well, he would have made an excellent diplomat. He talks too much yet says very little and he knows how to sidestep controversy. I am certain that the Martinez whom the players have to deal with is very different from the smiling guy we encounter in the media. I don't expect Martinez to criticise his players in public. Rodgers, to the contrary, has no qualms about doing so, and I question the wisdom of Rodger's approach. As for the league games, that record is simply unacceptable and frustrations are extremely valid. For me, its compounded by our manager continuing with a charm offensive and seemingly ignoring / oblivious to the very big issues! Edited September 26, 2014 by millwallforever Cornish Steve and MikeO 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted September 26, 2014 Report Share Posted September 26, 2014 I agree with your summary of the all that has gone wrong thus far, but I think it is important to distinguish the exoteric Martinez from the esoteric. It's the manager's job to communicate with media, and they all have their own peculiar way of performing their their duty. Redknapp in frivolous, Mourinho is smug, Rodgers is pseudoprofound, and Martinez...well, he would have made an excellent diplomat. He talks too much yet says very little and he knows how to sidestep controversy. I am certain that the Martinez whom the players have to deal with is very different from the smiling guy we encounter in the media. I don't expect Martinez to criticise his players in public. Rodgers, to the contrary, has no qualms about doing so, and I question the wisdom of Rodger's approach. cant argue with that, Barry. It's the accumulation of poor performances that has fans turning a bit. I didn't even mention the comical preseason games! We've had months of looking amazing for a while then bottling things. The wonderful football we have displayed again increases irritation as well as players either not delivering, whatever the reason. I'll clarify; I still believe in Martinez and the team to do well, I'm just getting impatient and annoyed at the diplomacy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest millwallforever Posted September 26, 2014 Report Share Posted September 26, 2014 I stopped watching the press conferences of Roberto long ago. He seems to enjoy them far too much, and I am not surprised at all that the weekly posturing causes annoyance among the fans, especially when things are not running smoothly in terms of the results we have achieved. I would say that defensive ineptitude has let us down; scoring goals is least of our problems. Martinez is still in the process pf building a team and I an willing to give him all the time he needs. After all, we gave Moyes a decade... cant argue with that, Barry. It's the accumulation of poor performances that has fans turning a bit. I didn't even mention the comical preseason games! We've had months of looking amazing for a while then bottling things. The wonderful football we have displayed again increases irritation as well as players either not delivering, whatever the reason.I'll clarify; I still believe in Martinez and the team to do well, I'm just getting impatient and annoyed at the diplomacy Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted September 26, 2014 Report Share Posted September 26, 2014 I think 17 goals conceded in 7 games is cause for concern, especially how most have come about. Leicester - 2 points dropped from winning position Arsenal - 2 points dropped from winning position Chelsea - less said the better Palace - 3 points dropped from winning position Swansea.... Ok, the League Cup just hurt, plain and simple. May not have been the most important game but it was the manner in which it was lost. As for the league games, that record is simply unacceptable and frustrations are extremely valid. For me, its compounded by our manager continuing with a charm offensive and seemingly ignoring / oblivious to the very big issues! 5 games is not quickly turning on a team, its acknowledging a very worrying trend, intensified by the manner of the losses and the managers comments. Very valid points however some fans get on certain players backs even before a ball is kicked It seems to be the Everton way to build a player up but then as soon as he has a couple of bad games to then try and completely destroy them (Jags,Baines,Coleman,Howard,Osman etc) People pay quite a lot of money to watch the games of their favourite team. To criticise trends and factors with which they are unhappy is their right. Even those who are vocal and perhaps even unreasonable in their criticism typically get behind the team when the game is on. In other words: what you are saying appears to me as a rather poor attempt at in-group cohesion. Im not trying to build any kind of united front, if people pay their money they are entitled to voice their opinions Im just saying when the crowd are so noticeably anxious it effects the players and that is when mistakes tend to happen Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted September 26, 2014 Report Share Posted September 26, 2014 I think one of our weakest links is fickle fans It never ceases to amaze me how quickly some Everton fans will turn on the team (some players more then others) and the negativity and apprehension in the crowd obviously filters through into the players I kind of 2nd this. Not as strongly. But I understand the jist. It's the pettiness creeping in that is unfortunate. Comments scrutinised or taken out of context. Some of the comments at the moment are far fetched. Honestly cannot wait for us to start playing properly again. I'll save myself for then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted September 26, 2014 Report Share Posted September 26, 2014 I think one of our weakest links is fickle fans It never ceases to amaze me how quickly some Everton fans will turn on the team (some players more then others) and the negativity and apprehension in the crowd obviously filters through into the players I agree with you. On the whole I think we lack a little persepective! Sibdane 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.