Roberto Martinez to be sacked?

[Shukes]

 

What positive aspects is our club being built on currently? I'd like to know about this "great" direction we are headed in. I'm having difficulty with this task.

First a question to you. Are you asking me as you quoted me but I didn't mention a great direction did I?

 

The positive for me is that after one and three quarters of a season we have finished high in one season, had a good run in Europe and brought a very bright striking prospect.

Now I would like to see how the manager does during the summer and give him the chance to turn things around.

 

Are you still struggling?

[MC11]

If we sack RM now I believe we will lose so much of what our club is built on.

From the start RM said he was here to build. We're in a results game where most can't see past them.

The thing is, if you look into it deeper we know that our fortunes can change just as quickly as the fell. We haven't became a team if donkeys over a season, we have lost confidence.

We have a few players back now and we will see how important they are to us. Ossie has always been our link up player. We expected Ross to take that over but it hasn't worked out yet...That doesn't mean he's shit and it won't happen....it's just taking a longer transition.

Pienaar has been a massive loss this season also.

These players need replacing and mcgeady and Kone are the wrong replacements.

Does that mean that RM is useless in the transfer market? Of course not. He may get the right people in during the summer.

I feel we need to give him the summer and look at his signings and his preparation for the coming season. Give him ten games and if there isn't a marked improvement then we need to look at it again.

Rubbish mate. If he stays on we'll lose everything we've built over the last 10 years he's a charlatan

[seve]

if at sometime during the season he had said this is not working

and taken some tough decisions and changed it I would say yes hes learning give him time

why did he put all his eggs in the euro basket the chances of winning it were nil he ignored the prem

but he is so arrogant he can not do it

howard, barry, birdman, and one or two others should have spent a lot of time on the bench, never going to happen

and this is why sadly he has to go.

[MC11]

if at sometime during the season he had said this is not working

and taken some tough decisions and changed it I would say yes hes learning give him time

why did he put all his eggs in the euro basket the chances of winning it were nil he ignored the prem

but he is so arrogant he can not do it

howard, barry, birdman and one or two others should have spent a lot of time on the bench, never going to happen

and this is why sadly he has to go.

Birdman has been ace this season. Not sure what the problem is.

[Newty82]

I said the forum would get busy after the Kiev defeat! It's the nature of footy forum fans!! Ha.

 

For me, he's still not to be sacked.

 

I'll admit he's doing my nut in at times with team selections, some comments etc. I feel myself getting frustrated with hearing certain things and repeatedly seeing certain things in games.

 

But it would be morally wrong (& expensive!) to sack a man who had a great first season and has had a below standard 2nd season up to now. I can see the 'anti Martinez' guys shaking their head at the mention of a great 1st season, as of course Moyes was still ghosting in at Finch Farm through the air con!!!

 

But it was a great debut season. And the club, and fans, has to give Martinez a chance to prove that this season is a 'learning season', '2nd season syndrome'...whatever you want to call it...and that his first season was no one off, fluke, or whatever. It is absolutely correct to allow Martinez another pre season, another few months into next season to see how things develop.

 

If come next season we are still making daft mistakes, conceding daft goals, if we start off the season looking unfit, if we still play at a stupidly slow tempo, if we still play with one winger, if we still persist with out of form players, if he makes pure dog shit signings...then we'll be in the bottom half and yes he will then deserve to be shown the door. Key word: Deserve. Right now, he does not deserve to be sacked.

 

All managers face adversity. It's up to the individual whether they squirm away or face into it.

 

Also keep in mind that this teams core, the core that has been present for 5-10 years, is now into its final furlong of top level football. We face a difficult task of a complete overhaul of the majority of players who have been fundamental to the success of the Moyes era but who clearly can no longer keep at it. We are talking 10 or 11 players. Even if you guys get your way and Martinez gets sacked tomorrow, you'll have to show more patience with the next guy because there's a pretty big job to do.

[Blue 250]

I said the forum would get busy after the Kiev defeat! It's the nature of footy forum fans!! Ha.

 

For me, he's still not to be sacked.

Even if you guys get your way and Martinez gets sacked tomorrow, you'll have to show more patience with the next guy because there's a pretty big job to do.

 

Why is there 'a pretty big job' to do.

 

He (Martinez) took on something that was running pretty good, he kept it going for a season........then slowly (like an Everton attack) we've come to this point.

 

Martinez will get another chance next season, Mr Martinez, apparently you have a 'big job' to do, maybe it's your own fault......DON'T fuc% it up.

[Newty82]

 

Why is there 'a pretty big job' to do.

 

Because you have 10-11 players who have reached their maximum and need replacing. If you take the full context of the statement rather than a few select words, you might see where I'm coming from. The players have been listed several times in another thread.

 

Do you not think it's a big job to replace so many players, of which a good number have been core players for the club for the last 5-10 years?

[MC11]

Newty chatting bum

[Paddock]

I think he's spot on.

 

We need a massive overhaul squad wise it's been cominh for a few seasonz now.

 

The squad needs rebuilding .

[MC11]

I think he's spot on.

 

We need a massive overhaul squad wise it's been cominh for a few seasonz now.

 

The squad needs rebuilding .

Na he's wrong. Too much damage has been done. Giving him "another chance" could well and truly fuck us and right now I don't know how our squad is going to look next season.

 

Our most lethal player is off.

[Newty82]

I think he's spot on.

 

We need a massive overhaul squad wise it's been cominh for a few seasonz now.

 

The squad needs rebuilding .

It does. You can't stop players ageing!

 

And that's the point...whoever is here will have to do it. You can't stop time! So whether you are 'pro martinez' or 'anti martinez', you must be able to see it?

 

It's my biggest concern.

[Paddock]

Na he's wrong. Too much damage has been done. Giving him "another chance" could well and truly fuck us and right now I don't know how our squad is going to look next season.

 

Our most lethal player is off.

I think you've mis-read him mukka, he's saying the squad needs a major overhaul. Never mentioned Martinez doing it.

 

Regardless of this seasons performances, Howard, Hibbert, Distin, Osman and Pienaar all need replacing.

 

Alcaraz, Mcgeady and Kine just compound the problem!

[MC11]

I think you've mis-read him mukka, he's saying the squad needs a major overhaul. Never mentioned Martinez doing it.

 

Regardless of this seasons performances, Howard, Hibbert, Distin, Osman and Pienaar all need replacing.

 

Alcaraz, Mcgeady and Kine just compound the problem!

I think you've Misread. He quite clearly says Martinez should get another pre-season and a few months. First of all that would allow him another transfer window (don't trust him in it) and secondly that would take us into January 2016.

 

I agree the squad needs an overhaul but is that going to be his next excuse..... "Players need to bed in"

 

Biggest concern for me is the damage already done. Our best player by a country mile looks to be leaving. I firmly believe if we were sitting in the top 6 Mirallas would be happy.

[Newty82]

Yup. I do say Martinez deserves to stay a bit longer. That's my opinion, based on good moral and ethic.

 

I also say....

 

"Also keep in mind that this teams core, the core that has been present for 5-10 years, is now into its final furlong of top level football. We face a difficult task of a complete overhaul of the majority of players who have been fundamental to the success of the Moyes era but who clearly can no longer keep at it. We are talking 10 or 11 players. Even if you guys get your way and Martinez gets sacked tomorrow, you'll have to show more patience with the next guy because there's a pretty big job to do."

 

And I also said...

 

"It does. You can't stop players ageing!

 

And that's the point...whoever is here will have to do it. You can't stop time! So whether you are 'pro martinez' or 'anti martinez', you must be able to see it?

 

It's my biggest concern."

 

There is my opinion on Martinez and there is a reality check, whether you want Martinez, Bilic, Laudrup etc.

 

What I want to know from those desperate to see Martinez go...based on the FACT that a load of players need to be turned over, how long will you give the new guy to get us top 6 again?

[MC11]

Yup. I do say Martinez deserves to stay a bit longer. That's my opinion, based on good moral and ethic.

I also say....

"Also keep in mind that this teams core, the core that has been present for 5-10 years, is now into its final furlong of top level football. We face a difficult task of a complete overhaul of the majority of players who have been fundamental to the success of the Moyes era but who clearly can no longer keep at it. We are talking 10 or 11 players. Even if you guys get your way and Martinez gets sacked tomorrow, you'll have to show more patience with the next guy because there's a pretty big job to do."

And I also said...

"It does. You can't stop players ageing!

And that's the point...whoever is here will have to do it. You can't stop time! So whether you are 'pro martinez' or 'anti martinez', you must be able to see it?

It's my biggest concern."

There is my opinion on Martinez and there is a reality check, whether you want Martinez, Bilic, Laudrup etc.

What I want to know from those desperate to see Martinez go...based on the FAC

T that a load of players need to be turned over, how long will you give the new guy to get us top 6 again?

The squad is in nowhere as bad as you're making out for a start. We need some gap fillers but other than that it's not terrible. This squad should have been competing for the top 6 this season I have no doubts at all another manager could come in and hurdle the likes of NEwcastle, Stoke, West Ham, Crystal Palace and Swansea

[Newty82]

The squad is in nowhere as bad as you're making out for a start. We need some gap fillers but other than that it's not terrible. This squad should have been competing for the top 6 this season

Yep, they should have been top 6 this season.

 

You don't think the squads too bad? I'm talking about the next year or 2? 8 of the current lot are 32+ years of age. Add Baines and Kone, you have 10 at 30+. From the 24 players in the squad that belong to us, that's a fair chunk? Amongst those there are players that have been valuable to us for years...Howard, Jags, Osman, Hibbert, Pienaar. That's just from an age point of view...then you add McGeady who may not be of good enough quality, Mirallas most probably wants to be off, and Gibson who is of good quality but injury prone.

 

How many players does that leave us with? Take the 8 oldies, 2 wingers and an injury prone CM...we have 13 players left.

 

Can we really just put gap fillers in there?

 

I can't remember who you want to replace Martinez, but will your expectations be top 6 and how long would you give them?

[MC11]

Yep, they should have been top 6 this season.

You don't think the squads too bad? I'm talking about the next year or 2? 8 of the current lot are 32+ years of age. Add Baines and Kone, you have 10 at 30+. From the 24 players in the squad that belong to us, that's a fair chunk? Amongst those there are players that have been valuable to us for years...Howard, Jags, Osman, Hibbert, Pienaar. That's just from an age point of view...then you add McGeady who may not be of good enough quality, Mirallas most probably wants to be off, and Gibson who is of good quality but injury prone.

How many players does that leave us with? Take the 8 oldies, 2 wingers and an injury prone CM...we have 13 players left.

Can we really just put gap fillers in there?

I can't remember who you want to replace Martinez, but will your expectations be top 6 and how long would you give them?

Ok,

Barry, Alcaraz & Kone all Martinez signings. If he was building for the future he should not have signed these players. However they can be considered gap fillers for the time being.

 

Over the next couple of season our team should look like this (we can fill the gaps later):

 

Robles

Gap

 

Coleman

Browning

 

Stones

Jags (reserve)

Gap

Gap

 

Oviedo

Garbutt

Baines (reserve)

 

RM

Mirallas

Gap

 

CM

Gibson

Besic

McCarthy

Gap

 

LM

McGeady

Gap

 

AM

Naismith

Barkley

 

Lukaku

Gap

 

By my reckoning we will need:

 

1 GK

1 top centre back + 1 reserve

1 top winger + 1 reserve Winger - if Mirallas stays

1 top ball playing CM

1 top striker

 

The current squad is good enough and there is still a few seasons left in Baines and Jags even as reserves. Like any other season we will need to bring players in. But in terms of squad depth this looks a lot better than most seasons under Moyes.

 

I would expect any fairly decent manager could get at least a top 8 finish

Edited March 21, 2015 by MC11

[c1982]

[MC11]

Just seen it. Only way to get the message across without armchair fans criticising atmosphere.

[Newty82]

So 7 new players? 4 of which need to be 'top' players? I'm guessing for top end fees? Plus possibly a replacement for Mirallas (possible want away) and McGeady (possible quality). Possibly 9 replacements. That's quite a job?

 

The reason I hone in on 30+ players is that once us men hit 30 odd our testosterone levels start to drop year on year...therefore so does our physical performance capability, rate of recovery etc. That's fine for every day casual blokes, but not for elite sportsmen. That's why some clubs only offer 1 year contract extensions to 30+ players. You don't know how long their bodies can keep it up.

 

Gone slightly off topic now I think.

 

So, who do you want to replace Martinez? Would you expect them to get top 6 straight in?

[Newty82]

https://twitter.com/toffeetv1/status/579411471043547137

Oh no. That's sad.

[MC11]

So 7 new players? 4 of which need to be 'top' players? I'm guessing for top end fees? Plus possibly a replacement for Mirallas (possible want away) and McGeady (possible quality). Possibly 9 replacements. That's quite a job?

The reason I hone in on 30+ players is that once us men hit 30 odd our testosterone levels start to drop year on year...therefore so does our physical performance capability, rate of recovery etc. That's fine for every day casual blokes, but not for elite sportsmen. That's why some clubs only offer 1 year contract extensions to 30+ players. You don't know how long their bodies can keep it up.

Gone slightly off topic now I think.

So, who do you want to replace Martinez? Would you expect them to get top 6 straight in?

7 new players isn't a lot spread over 2 years, and 4 transfer Windows. 4 top players (first teamers) isn't a lot to ask for over 2 season. Especially if you are right in thinking we'll have £25m a year to spend.

[c1982]

Just seen it. Only way to get the message across without armchair fans criticising atmosphere.

If you're 12 years old maybe.

[MC11]

Oh let's get this straight graffiti is childish but the message is spot on "not good enough"

[gethinO]

Just a cheap and very low way of expressing opinion I think. Graffiti on our own stadium?? Yeah that's a classy way to go about it. Embarrassing way of showing your opinion. Bet the Kopites are absolutely loving that.

[Cornish Steve]

This thread is becoming laughable, I have to say.

 

- Where did David Moyes' Everton finish in his second season?

- When was the last time we played in Europe?

- When did an English team last thrash a top 3 German team home and away?

 

Looking at the stats for Premier League managers is very sad. Excluding Arsene Wenger, every one of them has been in their post for less than four years. How can teams build a legacy if they react so quickly to disappointments? Frankly, a manager needs a decade to really build a lasting legacy - from bringing in the right players for his footballing philosophy, to getting the most out of the youth program, to carefully removing from the squad those who no longer fit in. It can't be done overnight. It takes time and patience, but it then pays off. Just look at any of the great managers of the top teams over the last few decades.

 

Thankfully, it looks like Everton have an owner who understands that.

[Newty82]

7 new players isn't a lot spread over 2 years, and 4 transfer Windows. 4 top players (first teamers) isn't a lot to ask for over 2 season. Especially if you are right in thinking we'll have £25m a year to spend.

Could very well be 9 players. And most of them this pre season. And if your aiming high, you need a fair whack to replace them. Keep in mind most of those players we ain't going to get any money for, or minimal money. And that 4, 5 or 6 of them have been key players of the last 10 years.

 

It's a debatable one. I see a possible issue. You don't. That's fair enough.

 

Still not giving me a clue as to who your next manager is and what you would expect?

[Paddock]

I think you've Misread. He quite clearly says Martinez should get another pre-season and a few months. First of all that would allow him another transfer window (don't trust him in it) and secondly that would take us into January 2016.

 

I agree the squad needs an overhaul but is that going to be his next excuse..... "Players need to bed in"

 

Biggest concern for me is the damage already done. Our best player by a country mile looks to be leaving. I firmly believe if we were sitting in the top 6 Mirallas would be happy.

Nope I was resonding to the Blue250 post saying why is there a big job and he put cos 8-10 players need replacing.

 

I wasn't refering to his earlier one of giving Martinez another season just him saying a big overhaul is needed, which it is which is why I said he was spot on.

 

No reference to his earlier post.

 

Crossed wires I think.

[MC11]

Nope I was resonding to the Blue250 post saying why is there a big job and he put cos 8-10 players need replacing.

I wasn't refering to his earlier one of giving Martinez another season just him saying a big overhaul is needed, which it is which is why I said he was spot on.

No reference to his earlier post.

Crossed wires I think.

 

 

You said you think he's spot on. Without highlighting any of his post. So I presumed you thought his whole post was spot on

[Paddock]

You said you think he's spot on. Without highlighting any of his post. So I presumed you thought his whole post was spot on

With the andwer to blue250s post about the players needing replacing.

 

You know my feelings on Martinez.