Blue 250 Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 I can see there are older players who could be near the end thier time at Everton, what I tried to get over was that from the moment Martinez walked in he could see what was needed, from day one he should have been able to see the situation. Plus this season poor results in prem has little to do with the age of the squad. There is a big job, I'm not doubting that, but Martinez has not helped himself. He will be here next season, but he needs to change, adapt, grow as a manager, if he hasn't by December, even Bill will do what needs doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 Martinez is constantly saying everything is fine and blamimg all defeats on bad luck in can see why people would do this. The Martinez bull shit bubble had to be burst, without the bs I doubt the fans would be this fast to react. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Droobie Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 Any manager coming in be it bringing back Moyes, or if we got Mourinho would not be any better position without proper investment into the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 I'm not making any excuses for this season's performance by the way. Not at all. Certain players being a year older would make a bit of difference, but it's not the whole issue this season. Thing is next season the same players are another year older...as said yesterday, you can't stop players ageing! I am genuinely interested in what those who want Martinez replaced would expect from a new manager? How long would you give him? What if he didn't achieve it in the first season? My guess is that, for example, peeps would expect a top 6 finish. But if that wasn't attained, would you call for that blokes head too? Or would you give him another year? 2 years? 3 years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Droobie Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 IMWT - be it Moyes, Martinez or Mourinho! Doesn't matter who's at the helm, they will only get as far as the board will allow. With our aging squad, and injuries we have not had the depth to take us through all competitions. Martinez has had to play who's fit on the day and yes, while players have been out of position, you go with who's fit in training, and experience. Unfortunately, the players have not stepped up to the plate throughout the season - Coleman and Baines have gone missing. Howard went missing. Osman and Pienaar? McCarthy, Gibson and Barry have been missing. Or center backs? Hard to put it all on the manager, where we have so many senior PROFESSIONAL players who should be able to do their job. I'd put it forward that the reason we are in the position we are in now is that we payed top dollar for Lukaku. 28mil is a lot, and while I do believe he's worth it, it's a heck of a lot of eggs to put into one basket. He didn't have the best start this season, being tired from the world cup. Money that could have perhaps been spread out to three or four good squad players. BUT - with the season we had previously why not secure him, but who was to know that our regular squad - the core that makes up the team, would be injured or forget how to play? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 I can see there are older players who could be near the end thier time at Everton, what I tried to get over was that from the moment Martinez walked in he could see what was needed, from day one he should have been able to see the situation. Plus this season poor results in prem has little to do with the age of the squad. There is a big job, I'm not doubting that, but Martinez has not helped himself. He will be here next season, but he needs to change, adapt, grow as a manager, if he hasn't by December, even Bill will do what needs doing. He probably can/could see the situation. He has bought in 7 under 25 players, plus McGeady who I think was 26 at the time. That's were the bulk of money has been spent. Only 4 players have been 30+. I'm sure when he arrived he spoke about the need for the youth system to be more productive. Same ethos will be needed from any manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 I'm not making any excuses for this season's performance by the way. Not at all. Certain players being a year older would make a bit of difference, but it's not the whole issue this season. Thing is next season the same players are another year older...as said yesterday, you can't stop players ageing! I am genuinely interested in what those who want Martinez replaced would expect from a new manager? How long would you give him? What if he didn't achieve it in the first season? My guess is that, for example, peeps would expect a top 6 finish. But if that wasn't attained, would you call for that blokes head too? Or would you give him another year? 2 years? 3 years? Silly question really. Everyone at least wanted Martinez to maintain everything that was built 11 years before him. Build on it and take us to the next level. Unfortunately he's taken us in the opposite direction. He's been exposed. He piggy backed of Moyes in the first season. Taking over a well drilled cautious defence and added a bit more fearlessness in the final third. However as time has moved on and the team has become more Martinez like we've turned into a poorly oiled machine with leaks all over the place. Any other manager would be expected to get us back into the top half of the table and competing for Europe and a cup. This season we failed miserably in both domestic cups and are still not safe. #Martinezout Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 Any other manager would be expected to get us back into the top half of the table and competing for Europe and a cup. This season we failed miserably in both domestic cups and are still not safe. #Martinezout So is that your answer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue 250 Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 I'd like any new manager, be it Moyes or even a 'new thinking' Martinez to play better more watchable football than that served up for the majority of this season.Newcastle weren't very good the other week but we played decent football and easily beat them, had we applied ourselves in similar vein against all the other opponents we would be top 6/7 at least.We can see it Martinez it seems couldn't, he wanted to do it his way, make a name for himself. Steve Bruce brought a very average Hull to Goodison and took the piss out of our tactics, being heard above a silent Goodison shouting out the only tactic needed.........PUSH UP ! Please Martinez adapt ! No more build up play of 30 passes to the edge of the 18 yard area to end up back with Howard, it's boring and it doesn't work.Last season it was quicker, slicker and better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 (edited) This thread is becoming laughable, I have to say. - Where did David Moyes' Everton finish in his second season? - When was the last time we played in Europe? - When did an English team last thrash a top 3 German team home and away? Looking at the stats for Premier League managers is very sad. Excluding Arsene Wenger, every one of them has been in their post for less than four years. How can teams build a legacy if they react so quickly to disappointments? Frankly, a manager needs a decade to really build a lasting legacy - from bringing in the right players for his footballing philosophy, to getting the most out of the youth program, to carefully removing from the squad those who no longer fit in. It can't be done overnight. It takes time and patience, but it then pays off. Just look at any of the great managers of the top teams over the last few decades. Thankfully, it looks like Everton have an owner who understands that. Are you seriously trying to compare that season with this one? That was a squad that was used to fighting against relegation every season, that was a squad that was imoroving and on the way up were as this appears to be a squad that is going in the opposite direction Edited March 22, 2015 by duncanmckenzieismagic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 Are you seriously trying to compare that season with this one? That was a squad that was used to fighting against relegation every season, that was a squad that was imoroving and on the way up were as this appears to be a squad that is going in the opposite direction Yes, it's a serious comment. In his first full season, David Moyes' team finished in sixth place. In Martinez' first season, we finished in fifth place. In Moyes' second season, Everton barely escaped relegation and finished 17th with 39 points. Despite the disappointment of this season, Martinez' team will probably finish 11th or 12th. Why is that not a decent comparison? In fact, when comparing the two managers, Martinez so far has done better. The proof of the pudding, of course, is how we do next season. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 Yes, it's a serious comment. In his first full season, David Moyes' team finished in sixth place. In Martinez' first season, we finished in fifth place. In Moyes' second season, Everton barely escaped relegation and finished 17th with 39 points. Despite the disappointment of this season, Martinez' team will probably finish 11th or 12th. Why is that not a decent comparison? In fact, when comparing the two managers, Martinez so far has done better. The proof of the pudding, of course, is how we do next season. It's a terrible comparison. Look at difference in quality of the two squads. We finished 7th in Moyes second season if I recall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 Yes, it's a serious comment. In his first full season, David Moyes' team finished in sixth place. In Martinez' first season, we finished in fifth place. In Moyes' second season, Everton barely escaped relegation and finished 17th with 39 points. Despite the disappointment of this season, Martinez' team will probably finish 11th or 12th. Why is that not a decent comparison? In fact, when comparing the two managers, Martinez so far has done better. The proof of the pudding, of course, is how we do next seaso As MC says its an absolutely ridiculous comparison There is a massive gulf in quality between the two squads. Moyes took over a side that was constantly fighting relegation and turned them into a side that was constantly challenging for Europe. Martinez has done it the other way around so I fail to see how Martinez has done far better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 It's a terrible comparison. Look at difference in quality of the two squads. We finished 7th in Moyes second season if I recall 17th. I thought you knew this stuff!! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Everton_F.C._seasons Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 As MC says its an absolutely ridiculous comparison There is a massive gulf in quality between the two squads. Moyes took over a side that was constantly fighting relegation and turned them into a side that was constantly challenging for Europe. Martinez has done it the other way around so I fail to see how Martinez has done far better So if they were a crap team, how come they finished seventh (not sixth as mentioned above) in Moyes' first season? I just don't see why the parallel isn't a solid one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 I don't think in this instance it's a question of Martinez 'doing far better' Dunc, it's a case of 'you can get up there, and...back down there!'. Comparing the quality of the 2 squads is pointless, as it is a decade ago. The whole league is of a higher quality now than it was then. The squads for the 2 seasons were very similar. 03/04 possibly slightly better as Martyn arrived in goal, Rooney a year older. The core of the teams was the same. I guess the quality in depth is better now. When you get a team to finish 7th, then nearly the same team finishes 17th the year after...well, I don't know. It's a debate with no answer!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 17th. I thought you knew this stuff!! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Everton_F.C._seasons I do we finished 7th in his second season in charge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 I don't think in this instance it's a question of Martinez 'doing far better' Dunc, it's a case of 'you can get up there, and...back down there!'. Comparing the quality of the 2 squads is pointless, as it is a decade ago. The whole league is of a higher quality now than it was then. The squads for the 2 seasons were very similar. 03/04 possibly slightly better as Martyn arrived in goal, Rooney a year older. The core of the teams was the same. I guess the quality in depth is better now. When you get a team to finish 7th, then nearly the same team finishes 17th the year after...well, I don't know. It's a debate with no answer!!! It's not even comparable and stop going down the lines of the leagues a lot better now. English football is of a very poor standard atm. David Moyes had a team full of dead wood. Not even close to the standard of players we currently possess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 Is it me or is the title of this thread wrong? What about having just his name? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 It's not even comparable and stop going down the lines of the leagues a lot better now. English football is of a very poor standard atm. David Moyes had a team full of dead wood. Not even close to the standard of players we currently possess. Moyes took the team to 7th. So they must have been capable of finishing 7th? The same team, with a couple of improvements, finished 17th. Look at the squads...hardly any difference... 2002/3 http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/everton-fc/2003/2/ 2003/4 http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/everton-fc/2004/2/ Then, with the same back line and core players, we finished 4th!!! http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/everton-fc/2005/2/ So did Moyes just have an off season? A learning season? Moyes said that he learnt a lot from his 2nd full season and then altered his approach. That 2nd season rumours were rife that he had lost the dressing room. This is all factual stuff. After we finished 4th in Moyes 3rd full season, there was a failure to really take advantage of the CL placing, the squad was too thin and the football was dire that season. Point is...Moyes didn't get everything right straight away. And you say Moyes had to deal with a load of dead wood? That's sounds familiar too. Cornish Steve and Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 Is it me or is the title of this thread wrong? What about having just his name? Ha! It's gone that way! It's all linked though isn't it? If you want him sacked, who next etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 I do we finished 7th in his second season in charge. If you include 2001/2 as his first season when he joined in March 2002 then we finished seventh in his second season. In his second full season we finished seventeenth. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 Is it me or is the title of this thread wrong? What about having just his name? Ridiculous title imo; but the other threads with his name on them (from last season) are full of posts saying how we won't hold on to him for long because he'll be off to Barcelona or Real any time; so can't really merge . Also I'd get accused of all sorts of nazism if I was to alter anything by Brett, I don't think he likes me very much . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 Yes, it's a serious comment. In his first full season, David Moyes' team finished in sixth place. In Martinez' first season, we finished in fifth place. In Moyes' second season, Everton barely escaped relegation and finished 17th with 39 points. Despite the disappointment of this season, Martinez' team will probably finish 11th or 12th. Why is that not a decent comparison? In fact, when comparing the two managers, Martinez so far has done better. The proof of the pudding, of course, is how we do next season. I do we finished 7th in his second season in charge. If you include 2001/2 as his first season when he joined in March 2002 then we finished seventh in his second season. In his second full season we finished seventeenth. Exactly. The key word was 'full'. You can't really count the couple of months prior to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 (edited) Exactly. The key word was 'full'. You can't really count the couple of months prior to that. I've followed your words. You said Moyes second season.... What's the problem? Edited March 22, 2015 by MC11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 (edited) I've followed your words. You said Moyes second season.... What's the problem? Geez. You are cantankerous at times. Would you like me to quote my original post yet again with 'full' in 18 font and highlighted in red? You just happened to misread what I wrote. Heaven knows I do that often enough as well. Edited March 22, 2015 by Cornish Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 Geez. You are cantankerous at times. Would you like me to quote my original post yet again with 'full' in 18 font and highlighted in red? You just happened to misread what I wrote. Heaven knows I do that often enough as well. Yes please Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 Geez. You are cantankerous at times. Would you like me to quote my original post yet again with 'full' in 18 font and highlighted in red? You just happened to misread what I wrote. Heaven knows I do that often enough as well. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 Geez. You are cantankerous at times. Would you like me to quote my original post yet again with 'full' in 18 font and highlighted in red? You just happened to misread what I wrote. Heaven knows I do that often enough as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seve Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 you all seem to be comparing apples with pears moyes this Martinez that with a bit a truth in both camps but the problem is Martinez can not adapt and has to many favourites who have constantly let him down but he had choices every one agrees he should not have brought howard back after robles run of clean sheets every one agrees howard should have been dropped long before his injury barry should never have brought back every time he was available besic should have played a lot more even when they have all been fit he still brings barry back in Barkley has been constantly played out of position why? no wonder hes gone backwards if Martinez wants to show hes here for the long haul he should say to robles, besic, garbutt, and maybe one or two more you are in for the rest of the season and lets see what we have to build on sadly what will happen is barry will come back the above mentioned wont get a game and we will sign cleverly in the summer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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