US Politics/Biden Presidency (Trump-free zone)

[MikeO]

Powerful stuff.

 

[Chach]

On 02/02/2020 at 06:04, MikeO said:

Powerful stuff.

The longer Bernie is in the race the less chance we have of winning.

[markjazzbassist]

7 minutes ago, Chach said:

The longer Bernie is in the race the less chance we have of winning.

who are you referring to as "we" ?

[Sibdane]

42 minutes ago, Chach said:

The longer Bernie is in the race the less chance we have of winning.

Agreed. I like him well enough, but I feel he's too far left for the current political climate over here. 

[Chach]

10 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

who are you referring to as "we" ?

People who want to defeat Trump.

[Cornish Steve]

I really worry for the safety of the whistleblower and his family now that multiple senators have publicly quoted his name. Some crazy Trump supporter might well seek to cause him harm.

[Cornish Steve]

On 01/02/2020 at 17:04, MikeO said:

Powerful stuff.

 

Bernie Sanders would be the Democrats' Jeremy Corbyn. Because of some of the things he's done in the past (such as praise Venezuela's Hugo Chavez), he would be unelectable - the easiest candidate to defeat in an election. Sad but true. At this point, I don't see a viable candidate, and I fear that big money will once again come into play (Michael Bloomberg).

[johnh]

6 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

Bernie Sanders would be the Democrats' Jeremy Corbyn. Because of some of the things he's done in the past (such as praise Venezuela's Hugo Chavez), he would be unelectable - the easiest candidate to defeat in an election. Sad but true. At this point, I don't see a viable candidate, and I fear that big money will once again come into play (Michael Bloomberg).

This seems to be the Democrats on-going problem.  The above could have been written about Hilary (and probably was).

[Chach]

1 hour ago, johnh said:

This seems to be the Democrats on-going problem.  The above could have been written about Hilary (and probably was).

Yeah, nah.

[markjazzbassist]

15 hours ago, Chach said:

People who want to defeat Trump.

none of them are in a great position to beat Trump, but Sanders is better than most.  He has a lot of similar positions to Trump on things like free trade, manufacturing, US jobs, the things that the blue collar workers voted for Trump for.  I'd argue he's the best candidate of who the democrats have.  Neo- Liberalism is not the answer. 

[Cornish Steve]

One for the history books: a classic example of courage, integrity, and conscience - from a man with whom I mostly disagree but whom, today, I admire.
 

 

[Matt]

Not done any good though. Never expected anything but Trump getting away with things again 

[Chach]

18 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

none of them are in a great position to beat Trump, but Sanders is better than most.  He has a lot of similar positions to Trump on things like free trade, manufacturing, US jobs, the things that the blue collar workers voted for Trump for.  I'd argue he's the best candidate of who the democrats have.  Neo- Liberalism is not the answer. 

Sanders represents old style socialism and that is the platform they will fight him on.

Liberalism is the only answer, the sooner the left get that in their head the sooner they'll start winning again.

[Matt]

24 minutes ago, Chach said:

Sanders represents old style socialism and that is the platform they will fight him on.

Liberalism is the only answer, the sooner the left get that in their head the sooner they'll start winning again.

I agree with what I think you mean but 2 things;

1) socialism doesn’t truly exist at the moment 

2) definitions of basically all sides have been simplified to such an extent that they’ve become nonsense / labels for people to affiliate themselves too. 

for example, I’m apparently a right wing centralist liberal according to my beliefs purely because I’ve got a range of opinions. But that doesn’t fit in with the media and the “easy to understand”, or “woke” ( :lol: ) times. 

[Chach]

50 minutes ago, Matt said:

I agree with what I think you mean but 2 things;

1) socialism doesn’t truly exist at the moment 

2) definitions of basically all sides have been simplified to such an extent that they’ve become nonsense / labels for people to affiliate themselves too. 

for example, I’m apparently a right wing centralist liberal according to my beliefs purely because I’ve got a range of opinions. But that doesn’t fit in with the media and the “easy to understand”, or “woke” ( :lol: ) times. 

1) The idea of socialism exists and its not an election winner in any western democracy, this is demonstrably true, its a demonstrable failure and I'm not sure how many times we have to run the experiment before we realise that it doesn't correlate with human nature.

2) Identifying as left wing doesn't mean you have to have all left wing positions if you understand that human culture is diverse. If people who identify as progressive haven't been made a little bit more conservative by Trump, Brexit, what's going on in Eastern Europe, Brazil. Turkey etc then I would argue they're not really progressive. They're just the other end of the reactionary spectrum.

 

[Chach]

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/01/trump-bernie-sanders-socialism.html?fbclid=IwAR3LANjMfA4EeLu2tlwDsVQSKd2UuvEOY_wLhETB5UxjYu-yY1_S4U8myv8

[MikeO]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-51389540

[markjazzbassist]

4 hours ago, Chach said:

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/01/trump-bernie-sanders-socialism.html?fbclid=IwAR3LANjMfA4EeLu2tlwDsVQSKd2UuvEOY_wLhETB5UxjYu-yY1_S4U8myv8

He lies and changes opinions hourly, his thoughts on the matter mean nothing.

[Matt]

7 hours ago, Chach said:

1) The idea of socialism exists and its not an election winner in any western democracy, this is demonstrably true, its a demonstrable failure and I'm not sure how many times we have to run the experiment before we realise that it doesn't correlate with human nature.

2) Identifying as left wing doesn't mean you have to have all left wing positions if you understand that human culture is diverse. If people who identify as progressive haven't been made a little bit more conservative by Trump, Brexit, what's going on in Eastern Europe, Brazil. Turkey etc then I would argue they're not really progressive. They're just the other end of the reactionary spectrum.

 

1) it’ll never happen because

2) Human nature. 

[MikeO]

"But now we have that gorgeous word. I never thought a word would sound so good - it's called, 'total acquittal'."

Two words when I was at school Donald, 1+1=? Use a calculator if you need to.

Can he actually tie his own shoelaces or does he have someone to do it for him?

[Romey 1878]

57 minutes ago, MikeO said:

"But now we have that gorgeous word. I never thought a word would sound so good - it's called, 'total acquittal'."

Two words when I was at school Donald, 1+1=? Use a calculator if you need to.

Can he actually tie his own shoelaces or does he have someone to do it for him?

Putin does it for him. 

[Chach]

16 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

He lies and changes opinions hourly, his thoughts on the matter mean nothing.

Not really an argument, regardless of what you think of the author there a lot of good points and references confirming the same thing.

I really don't like Ben Shapiro but it's hard to argue with any part of this article, all the right wingers are clucking for Bernie to be the nom.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/02/05/why_the_democrats_wont_stop_bernie_142316.html

[markjazzbassist]

5 hours ago, Chach said:

Not really an argument, regardless of what you think of the author there a lot of good points and references confirming the same thing.

I really don't like Ben Shapiro but it's hard to argue with any part of this article, all the right wingers are clucking for Bernie to be the nom.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/02/05/why_the_democrats_wont_stop_bernie_142316.html

of course they are, they all believe bernie is "pinko commie scum" thinking it's still 1970 and Vietnam war is still happening.  they got brainwashed back then in regards to socialism (well done us educational system) and still hold to those beliefs.  notice the future of my country 30 and younger bernie cleans up.  the only moderate potentially able to go head to head with trump in my opinion is bloomberg but he's so late and not getting votes in the primaries so i think he's a lost cause.  butigeeg tied bernie in iowa but he is awful with voters that aren't white, so he has no chance as democrats are a very diverse group.

[Chach]

16 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

of course they are, they all believe bernie is "pinko commie scum" thinking it's still 1970 and Vietnam war is still happening.  they got brainwashed back then in regards to socialism (well done us educational system) and still hold to those beliefs.  notice the future of my country 30 and younger bernie cleans up.  the only moderate potentially able to go head to head with trump in my opinion is bloomberg but he's so late and not getting votes in the primaries so i think he's a lost cause.  butigeeg tied bernie in iowa but he is awful with voters that aren't white, so he has no chance as democrats are a very diverse group.

Are you using the term socialism interchangeably with social redistribution or do you really think the government you would prefer should do things like Bernie has suggested in the past like nationalise banks and industry and have a centrally planned economy?

 

[Chach]

 

[Sibdane]

2 hours ago, Chach said:

 

In my state it doesn't really matter who I vote for since it always votes conservative (MS); however, I'm more than certain I'll be writing in Yang. He's my favorite candidate by far. 

[MikeO]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-51449739

No depth too low.

[markjazzbassist]

15 hours ago, MikeO said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-51449739

No depth too low.

he has no integrity no character no respect.  he's a disgrace to this world.

[Chach]

Yang is out, I am super surprised at how well Buttigieg is doing.

 

With 59% of New Hampshire precincts, Bernie Sanders leads Pete Buttigieg by 2.1 points. The Vermont senator is at 26%, and the former Indiana mayor is at 23.9%.

[markjazzbassist]

no surprise at all, new hampshire is a very moderate state as a whole, they trend republican usually.  even their democrats are more centrist than left.  prime buttigieg territory.  where he is going to have trouble are the big states like california and new york and so forth, these little ones don't amount to much in the end, they just get the ball rolling with the primaries.

 

big story of the night is klobuchar (another moderate) doing so well and biden in 5th.  I think next is south carolina and if he doesn't do well there i could see him dropping out.  i wouldn't be surprised if warren drops soon too, she's not doing very well, she needs to get to massachusetts or something to get a win, not sure if she will last that long.

 

yang never had a chance.  seemed like a nice guy, maybe he should try getting into politics at the house or senate level and get some experience there.