nogs Posted March 20, 2016 Report Share Posted March 20, 2016 Erm hang on! Why have you mentioned top 8? You said we'd finish 'bottom half'...I said we wouldn't. So the bet is simple...if we finish 11th - 20th, you win. If we finish 10th - 1st, I win. I know, I know... Shukes said anything but top 8 was unacceptable. Higher standards than you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted March 20, 2016 Report Share Posted March 20, 2016 Haha!!! I think I might have been! What I understood to be bottom half vs top half finish, now seems to be 'bottom half - 8th vs ???, or something?! My odds are being slashed!!!Makes no difference really because we will finish in the bottom half anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted March 20, 2016 Report Share Posted March 20, 2016 Makes no difference really because we will finish in the bottom half anyway Well you can bet with someone else!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted March 20, 2016 Report Share Posted March 20, 2016 Regardless of yesterday he still has to go. Bills interview after the Chelsea game has me really worried though "what a manager", I think his job is safe. He will be our manager next season, no doubt in my mind. Romey 1878 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted March 20, 2016 Report Share Posted March 20, 2016 Regardless of yesterday he still has to go. Bills interview after the Chelsea game has me really worried though "what a manager", I think his job is safe. He will be our manager next season, no doubt in my mind.Unfortunately I think you are right, I would love it to work out for Martinez and part of me still thinks we are not a million miles away from being a decent side.However another season of abject failure next season would surely be the end for him MikeO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted March 20, 2016 Report Share Posted March 20, 2016 I agree Dunc. The worry is that if he gets another year we will waste this squad. Before we know it Rom and Stones will have gone, and Roberto has £100m to spend. I'd love to see someone with ambition come in and convince our players we are going forward and the standards are improving. But it just won't happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted March 20, 2016 Report Share Posted March 20, 2016 Hardly any players have improved under him! They seem to just stay at a level.... Under Moyes players would gradually get better and better! Player look so unfit as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Blue Posted March 20, 2016 Report Share Posted March 20, 2016 Hardly any players have improved under him! They seem to just stay at a level.... Under Moyes players would gradually get better and better! Player look so unfit as wellRubbish, Rom, Stones, Barkley, Galloway, Jerry have all improved under Martinez. Even Lennon, Barry and Naisy when he was here improved or found a high standard. Martinez is stubborn and defensively nieve, but he is good at finding and developing players. I have often thought that he would make a great director of football. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rusty747 Posted March 20, 2016 Report Share Posted March 20, 2016 Under Martinez we are far too inconsistent. He does seem to be able to spot raw talent and develop it. What he has consistently demonstrated that he cant do, though, is to get a team playing consistently well. I think the analogy about a good player in a poor run of form is appropriate in that we say form is temporary but class is permanent. I fear that we appointed Martinez when he was on a run of good form as a manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted March 20, 2016 Report Share Posted March 20, 2016 Rubbish, Rom, Stones, Barkley, Galloway, Jerry have all improved under Martinez. Even Lennon, Barry and Naisy when he was here improved or found a high standard. Martinez is stubborn and defensively nieve, but he is good at finding and developing players. I have often thought that he would make a great director of football. Bollox, Barkey should be at a higher level than he is now. Stones has gone backwards. Geri came back an improved player. Galloway hasn't hit any height yet! Naismith was played in his proper position. Barry was already a key player for City & Lennon although good certainly ain't the Aaron Lennon of 3-4 years ago. Lukaku is about the only one but is put that down to natural ability and effort tbh. All my opinion of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Blue Posted March 20, 2016 Report Share Posted March 20, 2016 (edited) Bollox, Barkey should be at a higher level than he is now. Stones has gone backwards. Geri came back an improved player. Galloway hasn't hit any height yet! Naismith was played in his proper position. Barry was already a key player for City & Lennon although good certainly ain't the Aaron Lennon of 3-4 years ago. Lukaku is about the only one but is put that down to natural ability and effort tbh. All my opinion of course. Barkley has scored more goals this season and created more chances than he ever has. Stones is now an England Cb and had bids of 50 million yes he his going through a rough patch but most youngsters do. Galloway was great in defence for the first 10 or so games for us when Baines and Oviedo were injured. Jerry came to us after an unsuccessful loan spell where he hardly played. Lennon had not been a spurs regular for years, and certainly not scored or created anything like he's doing for us in at least his last 4 years. Barry was not used in the City team on a regular basis since they got Toure. Lukaku has improved so much from the raw player we bought in loan. Did you not see the goal against Chelsea, would a Lukaku of 2 years ago scored that? Moyes played Naisy up front and behind the striker and he was poor. You could argue it took him time to adjust, or Martinez played a part in this. All opinion as you say but everything is not black or white, there are many shades in-between, Martinez is not poor at everything he is good at developing players and creating a attractive, attacking style of football. He just can't organise a defence. Edited March 21, 2016 by London Blue Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 Barkley has scored more goals this season and created more chances than he ever has. Stones is now an England Cb and had bids of 50 million yes he his going through a rough patch but most youngsters do. Galloway was great in defence for the first 10 or so games for us when Baines and Oviedo were injured. Jerry cameo us after an unsuccessful loan spell where he hardly played. Lennon had not been a spurs regular for years, and certainly not scored or created anything like he's doing for us in at least 4 years. Barry was not used in the City team on a regular basis since they got Toure. Lukaku has improved so much from the raw player we bought in loan. Did you not see the goal against Chelsea, would a Lukaku of 2 years ago scored that? Moyes played Naisy up front and behind the striker and he was poor. You could argue it took him time to adjust, or Martinez played a part in this. All opinion as you say but everything is not black or white, there are many shades in-between, Martinez is not poor at everything he is good at developing players and creating a attractive, attacking style of football. He just can't organise a defence. Just like Moyes before him - Martinez will have a fair few positives he can point to. That doesn't mean that you get to stay. Managers don't have to be disasters like Mike Walker and Walter Smith before they given their marching orders. The club needs to be more ruthless - Martinez seems to believe he is above criticism. Its funny, one of my managerial bug bears is Martin O'Neill and I now see many similarities between Martinez and MON. O'Neill was far more verbally confrontational and "what you see is what you get" - ultimately both have very high opinions of themselves and believe they can never be at fault. It also appears both are very good at falling out with players. An FA Cup win would be lovely, it will also give us the opportunity to make a very strong statement of intent for us to get rid of a manager who delivers a trophy but is sacked for such a pathetic and to a degree "dangerous" league performance. Years ago the Romans used to decimate in order to instil fear and respect amongst the ranks - to me there are far too many people who have got too comfortable in the club. I am watching with great interest to see what Moshiri does - if he wants a new manager I feel that Bill will oppose him as he was the man who bought in Martinez and like many would love to see him succeed. Like the CEO I would like to think Martinez knows we are no longer a club with dampened expectations - accountability needs to be increased across the board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chalkpie Posted March 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 ^ I'm not sure he can inspire either. That is a quality that is not just black/white but might be the most important quality, period. I can honestly say that Leicester and Tottenham are teams that are inspired, play as if every game is a Cup final, go for the jugular. I'm not sure the last time I have seen EFC play with that attitude - Chelsea maybe? There are some ingredients missing with Roberto as chef. This latest article with him threatening his players if they don't shape up is the first time I have seen him out of 'Kum-Bi-Yah' mode, but the irony is that he is the one that needs to shape up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Blue Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 (edited) I'm not saying Martinez is a great manager, he is not. He has faults which have been much discussed on this and other forums. But he also has admirable qualities, he has changed our style of play to an attractive attacking one. We also score many goals. He spots talent and develops it. I agree that time is running out for him to prove himself, he must prove he can master the defensive side of the game and be more flexible if not in his footballing principles, then in how they are applied. Above all he must prove himself a winner, if he leads us to a FA Cup victory, and we can have a good run of results and performances leading up to it, then I believe we are set for a real leap forward for this club. If he cant do these things and we limp over the line, and don't win the cup then he has to go. However I do genuinely believe we are so close to something very special at Everton. Martinez has the potential to be a great manager with us, I hope he does but time will tell. Edited March 21, 2016 by London Blue MikeO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 I have reviewed and reviewed this. His arrogance and defiance is going to stop him becoming a good manager - its as simple as that. No one tells Roberto what he needs to do. If you told him it was raining outside and that he needed a coat he would go out in t-shirt and shorts just because he can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 I have reviewed and reviewed this. His arrogance and defiance is going to stop him becoming a good manager - its as simple as that. No one tells Roberto what he needs to do. If you told him it was raining outside and that he needed a coat he would go out in t-shirt and shorts just because he can. I do have fears that he is going to ruin himself...if that makes sense?! That long post that Lowensda posted in the Martinez Direction thread (the one of interviews with clearly level headed Wigan fans 3 years ago) has really struke a chord with me. At the time you read something like that and think 'Pah, whatever...different club now, better budget etc etc'. But 3 years on you read it and so much of it is true to your own thoughts. Reading that has certainly been a 'moment' for me!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chalkpie Posted March 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 I do have fears that he is going to ruin himself...if that makes sense?! That long post that Lowensda posted in the Martinez Direction thread (the one of interviews with clearly level headed Wigan fans 3 years ago) has really struke a chord with me. At the time you read something like that and think 'Pah, whatever...different club now, better budget etc etc'. But 3 years on you read it and so much of it is true to your own thoughts. Reading that has certainly been a 'moment' for me!!! Yeah, eerily prophetic and then some, eh? Hey Newt, you can come over to our side whenever you're ready. Don't worry, the water's nice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 Yeah, eerily prophetic and then some, eh? Hey Newt, you can come over to our side whenever you're ready. Don't worry, the water's nice Yes man. I'd love to come over to good old U S of A. Thanks for the invite and your offer of hospitality. Send me your details...I'll book a flight. What a nice gesture. MikeO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chalkpie Posted March 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 Yes man. I'd love to come over to good old U S of A. Thanks for the invite and your offer of hospitality. Send me your details...I'll book a flight. What a nice gesture. Don't tempt me - it'll be torture for you! Guns, Trump, Republicans, American Football, Baseball, Budweiser, SUV's.....should I go on? Really never been here? Its not as bad as I make out to be, or is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.