MC11 Posted March 6, 2016 Report Share Posted March 6, 2016 http://www.toffeetalk.com/index.php?/topic/25220-from-atlanta/ Nogs see here. Cornish Steve is a Martinez Supporter not an Everton supporter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smeghead1 Posted March 6, 2016 Report Share Posted March 6, 2016 I've opted for the end of season to decide, he has some real problems to sort out. The first thing I would do if I was him is contact Davie Wier or even Richard Gough (a proper defender) with years of experience and appoint them as defensive coach. Were brilliant going forward imagine having that with Moyes defence! We may still win the FA cup were good enough, yesterday's official was crap and that's being polite (Chris Camara pointed that out on Sky this morning) as was Lukaku's penalty. Substitions are suspect to say the least but how many times did we complain about Moyes bringing a defender on at 1-0 with minutes to go only to concede. We need to find a balance between the 2 and I'm not sure if Martinez is able to. dlblue 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted March 6, 2016 Report Share Posted March 6, 2016 I know I hark back to it too often maybe, but if this poll was taken on Kendall at the end of '93 it would be 99.9% nay, screw waiting for the end of the season. We were abject, dreadful, embarrassing and that's being kind. Today we're brilliant a lot of the time but ridiculously frustrating; I'm just not ready to give up on Roberto yet. Chach, London Blue, nutmegwolf203 and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted March 6, 2016 Report Share Posted March 6, 2016 I know I hark back to it too often maybe, but if this poll was taken on Kendall at the end of '93 it would be 99.9% nay, screw waiting for the end of the season. We were abject, dreadful, embarrassing and that's being kind. Today we're brilliant a lot of the time but ridiculously frustrating; I'm just not ready to give up on Roberto yet. I wasn't born at that time but how long did Kendall's so called bad run go on for? Roberto's is coming up to two full seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted March 6, 2016 Report Share Posted March 6, 2016 (edited) http://www.toffeetalk.com/index.php?/topic/25220-from-atlanta/ Nogs see here. Cornish Steve is a Martinez Supporter not an Everton supporter. So how old were you when I was cheering Everton against WBA in the cup final? Any road, it's not an either-or option. Edited March 6, 2016 by Cornish Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted March 6, 2016 Report Share Posted March 6, 2016 So how old were you when I was watching Everton play WBA in the cup final? I'm only going on what you put. You came to the forum when Martinez arrived, said you fell in love with the way he played the game and really you're a spurs fan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn balor Posted March 6, 2016 Report Share Posted March 6, 2016 Don't get me wrong yesterday in the second half we were brilliant but if you look at the first half the 3 at the back didn't work. Stones looked lost we should have been 2-1 down apart from a great Robles save and the post. Roms goal he created himself. I go back to the mirralas pen against west brom, he isn't strong enough to pick the right man for the job. Roms pennos even when he scores are not convincing. In fact they are shit. Every penno I've seen jags take have been top quality even the florentina penno save was a worldly. dlblue 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted March 6, 2016 Report Share Posted March 6, 2016 The end of the season voters what's that going to prove? 100% you'll all say give it till Christmas. The Danes been said for nearly 18months Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted March 6, 2016 Report Share Posted March 6, 2016 (edited) I'm only going on what you put. You came to the forum when Martinez arrived, said you fell in love with the way he played the game and really you're a spurs fan It's true that I was very impressed with the way Martinez created an exciting team on a bare bones budget at Wigan. It's also true that, as a teenager, I supported Spurs (mainly, as it happens, because they responded to my letter for an autographed team picture ). To my mind, the style and insight that Martinez brings, combined with the "people's" team of my youngest years that insists on winning the "right" way, will become unstoppable. Rome, however, was not built in a day. Edited March 6, 2016 by Cornish Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted March 6, 2016 Report Share Posted March 6, 2016 Don't get me wrong yesterday in the second half we were brilliant but if you look at the first half the 3 at the back didn't work. Stones looked lost we should have been 2-1 down apart from a great Robles save and the post. Roms goal he created himself. I go back to the mirralas pen against west brom, he isn't strong enough to pick the right man for the job. Roms pennos even when he scores are not convincing. In fact they are shit. Every penno I've seen jags take have been top quality even the florentina penno save was a worldly. Barkley should be on penalty duty fore Lukaku really is not convincing with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted March 6, 2016 Report Share Posted March 6, 2016 I wasn't born at that time but how long did Kendall's so called bad run go on for? Roberto's is coming up to two full seasons. No "so called" about it. Duration was long enough. I won't go down the attendances route again, or the pitiful football because I don't want to keep repeating myself. Suffice to say you (along with virtually every Evertonian) would be frothing at the mouth to get rid if you'd have been born back then. No question. '84 to '87 wouldn't have happened if people had had their way. I'm not suggesting Roberto can repeat what happened then, but I am saying that we're infinitely better now than we were in those extremely dark days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Blue Posted March 6, 2016 Report Share Posted March 6, 2016 (edited) As for yesterday's result, few teams in the league could have held out, a man short, for the best part of an hour. It's ridiculous to use this loss as a catalyst for complaint about the manager and team direction. True, but we were playing well, we had them cold and when Matinez took off Lennon and replaced him with Niasse the game started slipping away. Lennon needed replacing but to put on a player who was not match fit, no experience of the league is seriously misguided. The game needed managing and Martinez didn't do that. Why didn't he replace Lennon with Jerry who has experience and offered a real threat on the counter. Why didn't he put Barry on to use his experience to shore things up? This type of poor game management isn't a one off, its happened time and time again. I really like Martinez, he has moved our club forward and we are playing great attacking football, I love his positivity, the team play the type of football I love and want us to play, but he needs to learn to master the dirty side the ugly side. Every great team can do both. This is a trial by fire for Martinez, I hope he passes it because he will be a much stronger and more complete manager, but if he cant then he must go. Like Mulder in X-Files "I want to believe", and I will give him till the end of the season to prove it. Edited March 6, 2016 by London Blue pete0, chicagoblue and MikeO 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted March 6, 2016 Report Share Posted March 6, 2016 (edited) Martinez takes no responsibility. Every game we have won it in his head even if we've not got the points. We had the most chances, we had the most possession, we had the most corners, or the ref should have gave a pen, corner, throw in, hand ball etc, they had tremendous luck with their only chance coming from a smelly fart distracting Tim Howard. That said, we do get some shitty decisions, but we do very little to make our own luck. He's not arsed about winning three points as long as he 'won' overall. I don't want Moyes back as manager, but would love for him to go through the videos and berate the players after the game. Edited March 6, 2016 by pete0 Lowensda and chicagoblue 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryj Posted March 7, 2016 Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 (edited) Lol at the above post. Someone with their head up their ass. Blaming decisions for a poor season. We aren't Kopites mate.? - it's fact. My point is this: I feel we have been on the end of a number of bad decisions that have cost us points. I can only recall one decision that went our way that gained us points (1pt a city - assuming they'd of scored the pen). We have also as pointed out lost a number of points from winning positions. This I agree is disappointing but on the positive we are getting goals getting leads and in my opinion aren't that far away from being a great team. I'd like to give him a chance to do that. If we're in the same boat next season making the same mistakes I may have a change of opinion. The same as I'm sure the out brigade will have if we get in the top 4. I'm sure I'll get shot down for having my own opinion though. Kendall - Fergie etc Edited March 7, 2016 by barryj MikeO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rusty747 Posted March 7, 2016 Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 I am somewhere between a Nay and Wait until the end of the season. But only because I think that we will be able to attract a better manager in the close season. What pisses me off more than the results is the utter bollocks that Martinez spouts after yet another capitulation. Accept some responsibility you pig ignorant Catalan prick! pete0, chicagoblue and Lowensda 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chalkpie Posted March 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 (edited) I appreciate everybody's participation and thoughts thus far. I know that this is a very serious issue, and we are all pretty passionate in our beliefs in the direction this club needs to go, but ultimately we all want what is best for this club. I think the one thing we all agree on is that this club is broken in some ways, and we all want it fixed - be it whether we stay with Martinez or introduce a new captain to steer the ship. Whichever way this club chooses to go ahead, Everton needs to do better - the fans deserve better, the players deserve better, the proud history of this club deserves better. 12th place in the table is not good enough for the talent we have. Not even close. I truly believe that this team is top 4 material, and aside from one or two teams, we should not fear anybody in the BPL, yet we always find a way to fuck it up and so here we sit. The manager should not take 100% of the blame, yet a proper manager knows how to light a fire under his players asses to get them to perform as if their life depended on it. I personally don't think that Martinez is *that* person, and it seems from this poll and the general vibe that the majority of fans don't think so either. If he was, well we would be sitting 4th or 5th, no? If Martinez stays, he needs to change - its obvious its not working now. He also needs to change the way he talks in press conferences - we're not fools, so don't talk down to us as if we are. The bullshit has worn VERY thin. Own up to your own shortcomings, and I think you'll see more fans backing you. Whatever happens, we had better not be sitting 12th in March next year! Edited March 7, 2016 by chalkpie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nogs Posted March 7, 2016 Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 Kendall - Fergie etc Don't waste your time - Martinez is NOTHING like either of them, never has been, never will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryj Posted March 7, 2016 Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 Don't waste your time - Martinez is NOTHING like either of them, never has been, never will be. Totally missed my point. Let's forget history it teaches us nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makis Posted March 7, 2016 Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 I'm in the fence party. A lot of people seem to say Martinez is not learning or adapting. This is not correct. Saturday is not representative of anything because tactics are hard to judge after a team goes a man down. He did make a mistake by bringing on Niasse, but that wasn't the worst mistake in that game by a long shot (the red card, missed penalty and shite defending from Funes Mori contributed more to the loss). For instance, we had an issue with our wide positions when using the front trio of Kone, Lukaku and Deulofeu. Martinez changed this, bringing on Cleverley and Lennon instead. Unfortunately Cleverley was sick so that twat Mirallas had to be played instead. Since the 3-1 loss to City on January 27 and before Saturday the team conceded two goals, one of which was the Villa consolation goal. He has also been too stubborn with Howard, but looks like he finally woke up. On the other hand such stubborness is common among managers. Seems like almost every manager has their favourites and tend to stick to the same tactic for too long. Tactics have also definitely changed when in possession. Attacking play is much more incisive than it was last season. More direct balls forward and less recycling. He has also managed to build a very exiting and young team that seems to score goals for fun. Yes, Pulis would definitely shore up the defence but I doubt many would enjoy that either. And his transfer dealings have been good. His transfer outlay has been around 100 million and only about 10 million can be said to be wasted. And apart from Kone and McGeady those signings were cheap long-shots anyways (e.g. Rodrigues). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted March 7, 2016 Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 (edited) Everton boss Martinez: Moshiri investment does not put extra pressure on my future Well it should. http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/everton-boss-martinez-moshiri-investment-10998929 "I have got seven years of experience in this league and I know what it takes." Seven years...OK, so how have you done in that time Roberto? League positions during those years are - 2009/2010 - 16th (Wigan) 2010/2011 - 16th (Wigan) 2011/2012 - 15th (Wigan) 2012/2013 - 18th (Wigan - Relegated) 2013/2014 - 5th (Everton - Post Moyes) 2014/2015 - 11th (Everton) 2015/2016 - 12th (Current position, Everton) Still not learnt. He's not a new manager anymore. He's had plenty of Premier League experience and nearly 3 years just at Everton, the signs are that we're going backwards. Edited March 7, 2016 by Lowensda markjazzbassist and Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted March 7, 2016 Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 I voted nay, wasn't happy to do it but its how I feel. I'd love to see a press conference tomorrow where Roberto is stood with Stubbs, or Weir, or Dave Watson, or even Phil Neville, and him be honest that we aren't cutting it defensively and he needs help to get it right. But what manager with an ego would do that? Even though I would see it as a sign of strength to admit the problem rather than keep saying we have been unfortunate. This wont happen though, and I've loved the attacking football I've seen under him, I've loved seeing players like Geri, Rom, Barkley and even Stones all play some really good football, but we aren't nasty enough. We don't have any aggression in the team. When Mark Noble was all over the ref and buying his team some decisions and we stand off (at one point Jags shouted at the ref, from about 30 yards away!). Closing the game down is not even in Robertos head. Taking off Lennon and going two up front, when we don't even do that with 11 men, was just crazy. Take Lennon off if you have to, but put Barry in there to see the game out. I'm not sure if you can call it naïve but it feels that way. I just hope we get a manager with a win first entertain second mentality. We've had Moyes with his don't get beat attitude, Roberto with his play nice football and the results will come attitude, we need some more aggression in this team, more desire to do the not so pretty stuff to get the three points. Time up for me. pete0 and Lowensda 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 7, 2016 Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 Lol at the above post. Someone with their head up their ass. Blaming decisions for a poor season. We aren't Kopites mate. I wonder if that's why Kev fell over.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlblue Posted March 7, 2016 Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 Don't get me wrong yesterday in the second half we were brilliant but if you look at the first half the 3 at the back didn't work. Stones looked lost we should have been 2-1 down apart from a great Robles save and the post. Roms goal he created himself. I go back to the mirralas pen against west brom, he isn't strong enough to pick the right man for the job. Roms pennos even when he scores are not convincing. In fact they are shit. Every penno I've seen jags take have been top quality even the florentina penno save was a worldly. Agree with this, i'm not sure why Lukaku takes the penalties they never look convincing. For me iv always been a Martinez supporter as i like a lot of what he offers the club, BUT the results are starting to take the piss now and especially how we are losing. I'm tired of us being such a soft touch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elston Gunnn Posted March 7, 2016 Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 http://www.theguardian.com/football/these-football-times/2016/mar/07/roberto-martinez-brendan-rodgers-pep-guardiola-everton-liverpool chicagoblue 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kant Posted March 7, 2016 Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 http://www.theguardian.com/football/these-football-times/2016/mar/07/roberto-martinez-brendan-rodgers-pep-guardiola-everton-liverpool What journos seem to miss is that Guardiola is obsessive in his pressing (extremely high up the pitch) and it's the most important rule. The game played on the opposite half. Martinez is definitely not doing that, and I don't recall BR doing it either. The other manager that does it is Pochettino and it works wonders for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted March 7, 2016 Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 Save yourself the heartache - i've been lying to myself for weeks saying we can still do it! It's just not worth the weekly crushing disappointment. We will finish bottom half. You say we'll finish bottom half? I don't think so. What do you want the bet to be? A contribution to the running of TT? Name your price...I'm game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted March 7, 2016 Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 The end of the season voters what's that going to prove? 100% you'll all say give it till Christmas. The Danes been said for nearly 18months What it proves is that you make a decision at a time when it matters. It proves that you are able to put your own preconceptions and prejudice to one side and judge it based on true fact. It also proves that you see 10 games to go, 30 points up for grabs, results totally unpredictable and with a few wins you're back in the hunt for 5th. And there's the FA Cup. I'm not saying we will March on without doubt...but while the option is still viable, all has to be considered. At the moment, it's a frustrating season. We'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gethinO Posted March 7, 2016 Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 (edited) I just think after our investment we'll be a great attraction to big name managers and I'm sorry there's much better than him out there. Nothing will happen though will it? Being realistic for a moment. We're not a club that will sack their manager. I'll be very very surprised if he's sacked and I pretty much guarantee that he'll be in charge the first game of next season. Edited March 7, 2016 by Geth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nogs Posted March 7, 2016 Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 (edited) You say we'll finish bottom half? I don't think so. What do you want the bet to be? A contribution to the running of TT? Name your price...I'm game. With Arsenal, Man Utd, Leicester and Liverpool still to play... and a manager who has finished top half once in 6 seasons as a Premiership manager... and a wretched habit of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory... Shall we call it a tenner? Edited March 7, 2016 by nogs MC11 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryj Posted March 7, 2016 Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 All very well those saying nah it's everyone's prerogative. But who would you guys realistically replace Roberto with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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