EFC-Paul Posted February 21, 2019 Report Share Posted February 21, 2019 7 minutes ago, MikeO said: So none then. Expected no more. What do you mean by that Mike? Just because I have a varying opinion to yours one that I personally think is more than justified doesn't mean you have to see your arseĀ There's plenty of footage pictures quotes from herself and multiple others who have interviewed her and so on that justify why she's had her passport revoked then again they've done it because she's not committed any offenses their just racists I guess Mike? "Expected no more" fuck sake Mike get off your high horseĀ KinL 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted February 21, 2019 Report Share Posted February 21, 2019 1 minute ago, EFC-Paul said: What do you mean by that Mike? Just because I have a varying opinion to yours one that I personally think is more than justified doesn't mean you have to see your arseĀ "Expected no more" fuck sake Mike get off your high horseĀ I'm on no horse, you said youĀ have more damning evidence on the girl and I just ask you to elaborate on it, but you've not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFC-Paul Posted February 21, 2019 Report Share Posted February 21, 2019 20 minutes ago, MikeO said: I'm on no horse, you said youĀ have more damning evidence on the girl and I just ask you to elaborate on it, but you've not. Because I don't have to Mike just because you tell people to do something doesn't mean they have to bow to your whim, my opinion differs to yours it's simpleĀ Ā If you went about it in a more polite manner and not sat upon that high horse I'd have obliged I've seen more than enough to come to that conclusion and so have the hierarchy and security services of this country and Bangladesh's to deem her a threatĀ Ā KinL 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted February 21, 2019 Report Share Posted February 21, 2019 I think Mike just asked for more of your reasons for thinking she was a cunt?Ā Matt, EFC-Paul and KinL 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted February 21, 2019 Report Share Posted February 21, 2019 14 minutes ago, EFC-Paul said: If you went about it in a more polite manner and not sat upon that high horse I'd have obliged I'd love to see where I've been impolite in this. But forgetting that for the mo I'm going to bed in a minute due to an early start so imagine that I've been as polite as you want me to be and oblige me with your reasoning, I'll look at it in the morning and give my response (what is it with this "high horse" fantasy btw, just giving my opinion same as you are; but I don't feel the need to suggest you're jumping on a superiorĀ equine level). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted February 22, 2019 Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47330079 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted February 22, 2019 Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 Ā pete0 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted February 22, 2019 Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 On ā21ā/ā02ā/ā2019 at 09:01, Chach said: How are you coming to that conclusion? how would you describe a political representative who refuses to represent?Ā especially one who disagrees with the will of the people? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted February 22, 2019 Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 8 minutes ago, rubecula said: how would you describe a political representative who refuses to represent?Ā especially one who disagrees with the will of the people? How are they refusing to represent? If anything theyāre leaving because they feel the party doesnāt represent what their beliefs are and what their constitutants voted for.Ā MikeO and Bailey 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted February 22, 2019 Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 3 minutes ago, Matt said: How are they refusing to represent? If anything theyāre leaving because they feel the party doesnāt represent what their beliefs are and what their constitutants voted for.Ā if that were the case they would resign their status and try again in an election asapĀ ////Ā not hang on toĀ it like a dog wrapped round a drunk's leg.Ā they (none of them) have the courage of their convictions,Ā you watch them bleat about it if they lose their nice cushy role in parliamentĀ ā¦. well I say fuck them and let them earn their pay like honest folks for once n their misbegotten lives. Ā Useless, the entire house is rotten to the core.Ā Guy Fawks had the right idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted February 22, 2019 Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 19 minutes ago, rubecula said: if that were the case they would resign their status and try again in an election asapĀ ////Ā not hang on toĀ it like a dog wrapped round a drunk's leg.Ā they (none of them) have the courage of their convictions,Ā you watch them bleat about it if they lose their nice cushy role in parliamentĀ ā¦. well I say fuck them and let them earn their pay like honest folks for once n their misbegotten lives. Ā Useless, the entire house is rotten to the core.Ā Guy Fawks had the right idea. Resign and try again at the next election in 3 years time? In that time thereās no representation or thereās a local election where itās new candidates for a party thatās falling apart or a party thatās trying its best to implode the country. How does that help? MikeO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted February 22, 2019 Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 18 minutes ago, Matt said: Resign and try again at the next election in 3 years time? In that time thereās no representation or thereās a local election where itās new candidates for a party thatās falling apart or a party thatās trying its best to implode the country. How does that help? not in 3 years time I know living abroad can make you forget this sort of stuff as I did myself a while ago but every time a member retires, dies or otherwise leaves the post they were voted in for there has to be a byelectionĀ to allow folks to be representedĀ they (the rebels) can therefore stand as representative candidates of an independent group.Ā if they win that will give them the mandate to carry on, if they lose then they van fuck off out of politics for a year or three. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted February 22, 2019 Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 1 hour ago, rubecula said: how would you describe a political representative who refuses to represent?Ā especially one who disagrees with the will of the people? It depends whether you're voting for a person or a party. Too many (imo) vote purely on party lines and expect to have 300+ supposedly intelligent and public spirited people sitting there and doingĀ exactly what they're told to do by the party elite because they all agree on everything so "let's all sit and have a jolly nice time acting like primary school kids". I can certainly see the case for these guys putting themselves forward in by-elections but I still find it pleasing to see some people jumping off the "clone crony conveyor" collect wages and expenses bandwagon. rubecula and Bailey 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted February 22, 2019 Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 6 minutes ago, rubecula said: not in 3 years time I know living abroad can make you forget this sort of stuff as I did myself a while ago but every time a member retires, dies or otherwise leaves the post they were voted in for there has to be a byelectionĀ to allow folks to be representedĀ they (the rebels) can therefore stand as representative candidates of an independent group.Ā if they win that will give them the mandate to carry on, if they lose then they van fuck off out of politics for a year or three. None of them have died, retired or left post though (yet). rubecula 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted February 22, 2019 Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, MikeO said: It depends whether you're voting for a person or a party. Too many (imo) vote purely on party lines and expect to have 300+ supposedly intelligent and public spirited people sitting there and doingĀ exactly what they're told to do by the party elite because they all agree on everything so "let's all sit and have a jolly nice time acting like primary school kids". I can certainly see the case for these guys putting themselves forward in by-elections but I still find it pleasing to see some people jumping off the "clone crony conveyor" collect wages and expenses bandwagon. as do I Miike Ā Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted February 22, 2019 Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 1 minute ago, MikeO said: None of them have died, retired or left post though (yet). my point exactlyĀ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted February 22, 2019 Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 9 minutes ago, rubecula said: my point exactlyĀ My point exactly - there would by no by elections for the reasons Mike stated.Ā 19 minutes ago, rubecula said: not in 3 years time I know living abroad can make you forget this sort of stuff as I did myself a while ago but every time a member retires, dies or otherwise leaves the post they were voted in for there has to be a byelectionĀ to allow folks to be representedĀ they (the rebels) can therefore stand as representative candidates of an independent group.Ā if they win that will give them the mandate to carry on, if they lose then they van fuck off out of politics for a year or three. Iāve learnt more than I ever knew being abroad. One good thing to come from Brexit... 3 years is the next general election. Until one of them dies,Ā retires or steps down, thatās the next chance.Ā Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted February 22, 2019 Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 5 minutes ago, Matt said: My point exactly - there would by no by elections for the reasons Mike stated.Ā Iāve learnt more than I ever knew being abroad. One good thing to come from Brexit... 3 years is the next general election. Until one of them dies,Ā retires or steps down, thatās the next chance.Ā totally agree MattĀ all we need do now is to per suade them to retire or kill them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted February 22, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Matt said: How are they refusing t o represent? If anything theyāre leaving because they feel the party doesnāt represent what their beliefs are and what their constitutants voted for.Ā Matt, didn't they get elected on the party manifesto?Ā In the case of the three Tory MP's who bailed out on an anti-Brexit stance, their constituencies all voted 'leave'.Ā Doesn't sound like democracy to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted February 22, 2019 Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 41 minutes ago, johnh said: Matt, didn't they get elected on the party manifesto?Ā In the case of the three Tory MP's who bailed out on an anti-Brexit stance, their constituencies all voted 'leave'.Ā Doesn't sound like democracy to me. Actually it isĀ very democratic. Representative democracy means the elected members do what they can for the good of the people who vote them in, not just doing what they say. Using a referendum that was non-legally binding without any planning or simple definition as to what Leave even meantĀ to try and consolidate party power is undemocratic. Iām amazed itās not illegalĀ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted February 22, 2019 Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 22 minutes ago, johnh said: Matt, didn't they get elected on the party manifesto?Ā In the case of the three Tory MP's who bailed out on an anti-Brexit stance, their constituencies all voted 'leave'.Ā Doesn't sound like democracy to me. If individual MP's aren't allowed to express their own opinion and act on their own conscience then why do we have them? It'd be a lot cheaper if everyone voted for a colour and six or seven party leaders met in a room and the one with the biggest number got their way all the time. I realise that's not a serious scenario but just thought I'd bring it up. Our electoral system is dreadful, as are many, but it's never going to change because the two big parties won't let it happen; turkeys voting for Christmas springs to mind. Mrs May is running the country after gettingĀ 36.9% of the vote, is that democratic? pete0 and Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted February 22, 2019 Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 6 minutes ago, MikeO said: If individual MP's aren't allowed to express their own opinion and act on their own conscience then why do we have them? It'd be a lot cheaper if everyone voted for a colour and six or seven party leaders met in a room and the one with the biggest number got their way all the time. I realise that's not a serious scenario but just thought I'd bring it up. Our electoral system is dreadful, as are many, but it's never going to change because the two big parties won't let it happen; turkeys voting for Christmas springs to mind. Mrs May is running the country after gettingĀ 36.9% of the vote, is that democratic? Dont forget bribing the DUP... MikeO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted February 22, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 1 minute ago, Matt said: Actually it isĀ very democratic. Representative democracy means the elected members do what they can for the good of the people who vote them in, not just doing what they say. Using a referendum that was legally unbinding without any planning or simple definition as to what Leave even meantĀ to try and consolidate party power is undemocratic. Iām amazed itās not illegalĀ Matt, if Remain had won I just get the feeling that you wouldn't have been concerned that it was legally unbinding or even, perhaps, illegal.Ā So you are saying that an MP who gets elected on the party manifesto, which was voted for by his/her constituents, should be entitled to go against that because he/her, as an individual, knows what its best for them?Ā Some weird form of democracy that.Ā Probably EU democracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted February 22, 2019 Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 14 minutes ago, johnh said: Matt, if Remain had won I just get the feeling that you wouldn't have been concerned that it was legally unbinding or even, perhaps, illegal.Ā Leave would have accepted it would they?Ā 14 minutes ago, johnh said: So you are saying that an MP who gets elected on the party manifesto, which was voted for by his/her constituents, should be entitled to go against that because he/her, as an individual, knows what its best for them?Ā Some weird form of democracy that.Ā Probably EU democracy. An MP is elected to do what they think is best for their constituents. The voters give that person the mandate to make the right decisions for them; people may be elected on a manifesto but manifesto's are routinely torn up (by both colours) once a party has power so who do you want representing you? An ex-parrot (I realise you currently have one) or someone capable of thinking for themselves and acting accordingly when things change several years after the manifesto has becomeĀ toilet paper? Was the DUP agreement in the manifesto by the way? Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted February 22, 2019 Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 19 minutes ago, MikeO said: Leave would have accepted it would they?Ā An MP is elected to do what they think is best for their constituents. The voters give that person the mandate to make the right decisions for them; people may be elected on a manifesto but manifesto's are routinely torn up (by both colours) once a party has power so who do you want representing you? An ex-parrot (I realise you currently have one) or someone capable of thinking for themselves and acting accordingly when things change several years after the manifesto has becomeĀ toilet paper? Was the DUP agreement in the manifesto by the way? Conservatives should be the last party to lecture on broken manifesto promises, in there last two terms that Cameron wasĀ Ā in power they have broken or failed to deliver on more manifesto promises than any government at anytime in history.Ā Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted February 22, 2019 Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 The great Ken Clarke on manifesto's Ā Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted February 22, 2019 Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 1 hour ago, MikeO said: If individual MP's aren't allowed to express their own opinion and act on their own conscience then why do we have them? It'd be a lot cheaper if everyone voted for a colour and six or seven party leaders met in a room and the one with the biggest number got their way all the time. I realise that's not a serious scenario but just thought I'd bring it up. Our electoral system is dreadful, as are many, but it's never going to change because the two big parties won't let it happen; turkeys voting for Christmas springs to mind. Mrs May is running the country after gettingĀ 36.9% of the vote, is that democratic? I am seriously surprised mike and matt democratically elected mps follow the dictates of the people who voted for them yes they may have different view points but if they were voted in then the people were not informed otherwise or the person who was elected would not have been.Ā I have no objection to the mps having private concerns but making the public is wrong in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted February 22, 2019 Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, rubecula said: I am seriously surprised mike and matt democratically elected mps follow the dictates of the people who voted for them yes they may have different view points but if they were voted in then the people were not informed otherwise or the person who was elected would not have been.Ā I have no objection to the mps having private concerns but making the public is wrong in my opinion. That's the "I was just following orders" defence Rubes. Not a great ethos to live by. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted February 22, 2019 Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 1 minute ago, MikeO said: That's the "I was just following orders" defence Rubes. Not a great ethos to live by. very true ā¦.. but these are politicians we are discussing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted February 22, 2019 Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 3 hours ago, johnh said: Matt, if Remain had won I just get the feeling that you wouldn't have been concerned that it was legally unbinding or even, perhaps, illegal.Ā So you are saying that an MP who gets elected on the party manifesto, which was voted for by his/her constituents, should be entitled to go against that because he/her, as an individual, knows what its best for them?Ā Some weird form of democracy that.Ā Probably EU democracy. If Leave had lost, I wouldnāt have learnt so much. Iām not that petty but that still doesnāt change the actual that the law exists as it does.Ā I was *refused* a vote. Not ādidnāt voteā; refused. I had zero say, and itās still true to this day.Ā Please explain the ādemocracyā in that as a British citizen.Ā That wasnāt EU law, that was British law.Ā Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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