Hafnia

2 hours ago, Palfy said:

He also needs a reality check I’ve never read or heard anyone call him the messiah. 

Unbelievable... started talking about cinema & films laughing and joking.

im not against managers having a personality but ffs pick the moment 

your fault @Matt I told you to keep that powder dry!  He's been reading toffeetalk!

"I'm currently not deemed to be doing a good job".......  as though he's surprised by that?!

yeah Sean the 4 games worth of credit has kinda evaporated in the 15 games of repetitive shite they we have seen. 

I can't handle him sorry..... it's like watching an mp in full bullshit bingo flow. 

dyche said it was a pity he got injured cos he was coming into form in training........ amongst other bits of nonsense this was his biggest lie.

watching dyche press conference...... waffle fest.  DCL and Branthwaite should be fit, other than that it was like watching a career politician at work.

I think Garner at right back with permission to get forward and cross is a good idea. Gana, Gomes and Onana in midfield.  I'll be honest, Onana deserves dropping and if it wasn't for the fact that Doucoure gives the ball away a criminal amount of time he would be dropped.

1 hour ago, Romey 1878 said:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2024/apr/19/fa-cup-replays-fall-victim-to-scramble-for-cash-and-chaotic-decision-making

absolutely disgusting, FA cup replays have actually stopped clubs going under - the only thing that was almost pure about the game even though man united did it untold harm when they missed it.  I hate football now I really do.

6 minutes ago, Shukes said:

I love Everton…. Buts it’s hard to give up my Gomes!

What about a wooden Onana? 
Oh wait… I sold him to Everton already.

£30m in the bank you jammy sod 

12 minutes ago, Matt said:

All good mate. Like I said, but maybe not clearly enough; I can't defend him anymore. I still believe the players are the biggest problem. After all, this run hasn't improved even with the enforced changes mixing the teams up a bit. But when you've got 16 seniors to chose from seriously (before injuries, suspensions and AFCON) mixing things up isn't really an option and the whole style (or complete lack thereof) is to avoid exposing the weakness of our players, like basic passing, basic shooting, basic tracking and running. They do it in the training videos, so how does Dyche transfer that concentration over the line? I don't think he can with everything taken into consideration and so he should go if we have a decent candidate. Hafs shout about Baines is a good call if we want to survive on blood and thunder. I wonder if we could tempt Carsley when thinking outside the media... But again, circumstances prevent us swapping staff.

Not being funny Matt you honestly seem the training videos and thought "good finish" - they are doing 1-2s against mannequins and the goalkeepers don't save shots that are pretty lame. They let them in. 

This is not training at all, it's absolutely farcical.  It's all pr, I've seen people rip the videos apart for the piss poor sessions that they are. 
 

I can't wait to see the back of him and his gang I really can't. Dwight McNeil ironically applauded Mike Jackson for giving him freedom and belief after dyche was sacked 

3 hours ago, Matt said:

If my defenders were abysmal at defending set pieces with their shoelaces tied together, I'd still be angry but I'd understand why. The handicap of the clubs state of affairs over the last several years is still there.

Do you think Baines would rally the troops? He was always so quiet but he was also captain and highly thought of. Maybe him and Coleman, someone who can be the voice and kick them up the arse (metaphorically speaking of course )? But we can't pay Dyche off, else we would have already going on past experiences, so it's immaterial really. Doesn't make it any less frustrating or anger inducing.

Baines doesn't necessarily need to rally the troops, just actually give the team instructions and tactics that aren't rinse and repeat recipes for failure like dyche.

he doesn't have a clue how to change things, he stands there throwing his arms up in the air when his players aren't carrying out his master plan.

dyche looks and sounds like a man who knows his game is up. 
 

we don't need to pay him off, he just takes gardening leave. As far as I can see the players have had enough of him

22 minutes ago, Matt said:

Not dressing anything up. Unless he's actively coaching them to finish and pass well in training but bottle it when it counts, then I'll take it all back. But there's only so much you can do with those factors (and more) that are part of the overall problem before you look clueless. Honestly don't know anyone who would get this group performing as individuals and a team with the cloud hanging over the club and the years of bad mentalities in and around the club.

I've defended him in the past because the players were creating chances. But even the chances have dried up and I've not noticed much change in tactics (partly because he hasnt got a squad to change around) so it can only be in the players heads to improve things. 

But all that aside, if we could afford to sack him he would've been gone already and I would be pissed off that yet another manager with yet another style hasn't been given time rather than be annoyed at losing him. I think thats always been my stance, i can defend circumstances but I get angry with the situation and keep insisting on 1 manager just for that 1 element of stability.

Whichever new owner we get will have him out the door on day one (he might already know this and maybe that's affecting him too, though he doesn't seem the type to me). But who turns this groups head around? Genuinely don't know and maybe a fire sale is going to be beneficial, so long as we have a manager in place.

That's not me accepting the poorness of our play, that's me recognising we're in a shit place and if I thought changing the manager would improve things, I'd be supportive of it. But I don't believe it will beneficial.

If the players were abysmal from defending set pieces you would hold him accountable wouldn't you? Why is it different in any other pattern or phase of play? 

its quite frankly unacceptable. The exact same issues were pointed out at Burnley. He does not have answers for them because it's not something he or his coaches have ever been good at. It's a fact. 

everything in football is about drilling and drilling. To me it's abundantly clear he doesn't do that. He was asked about this quite specifically in Portugal to which he replied - no. 

stick him and his coaches on gardening leave and let baines take over. He's taking us down. 

8 minutes ago, Matt said:

This is a general reply Palfy, just your post as a reference. Not targeting anyone here.

I'm pretty sure he knows their strengths and weaknesses. Whether he knows how to get the best balance is another thing and that was hit and miss for a while. I'm not going to say he hasn't become part of the problem, he has (although I didn't see anyone celebrating the triple substitution at half time ). But there are several elements that people either don't ask themselves about or expect miracles.

Look at the squad he inherited.

1) Their mental state is the main reason the players are shit. 7 of the senior squad have been through FSW, SA, Koeman and all the shit of the last 3 seasons, so it's little wonder they've got 0 self belief. I know the argument will be "but that's what they're paid to do" or some other similar statement. They are human beings, elite athletes, vs the general population at least, and 

2) Look at the squad depth. He has had very, very little opportunity to change things up because the squad is so damn thin. I hear the "well play the kids then", but you have to ask yourself, if they were ready, they would've been playing already under other managers or snapped up. 

3) the league is actively trying to destroy the club. No tin hat here, it's all on display. 

He is a part of a much bigger problem and problem has been caused by constant changes in managers, structures, styles, etc.

I've got a project at the moment and it was going swimmingly until the resource got pulled. Now it's scraping along and it's become toxic because its not supported well enough. As the Project Manager you could argue that I should make do with what I've got to hand and make it work, that's my role after all. But when no one has money to support it, it doesn't improve. So until there's a cash injection, I'm operating it on survival mode and have had to sacrifice a lot of the basic functionality and principles because people are getting upset that it's not working. I'm talking about a fuckin IT tool, I can't begin to imagine for a football club. Well, I can, and that's the only reason I continue to back him even though things are not good enough.

 

https://outofmytinymind.com/2022/04/18/off-dyche-and-then/

interesting read..... I used for my post above.  In short he is showing very similar traits his his ones at Burnley.

You can dress it up anyway that you want - that group of players should not be performing like that, its an international level spine - Pickford, Tarks, Branthwait, Onana, Gana, DCL

absolutely shambolic how he has them looking like sunday league hoof merchants.

1 hour ago, Tonsta said:

The manager does not make them miss an open goal from 3 yards out,or miss penalty's, he does not make them suddenly become incapable of passing it 10 yards to each other, He does not stop them putting in shift, he does not stop them running and tell them to just amble about the pitch, he did not buy this bunch of tossers who have thrown half a dozen managers under the bus. He did a great job at Burnley as my season ticket holding friend said for 8 years, kept them in the prem, qualified for europe with a team on a shoe string, Im not saying he is a great manager, or the right man for us going forward, but all this shit i have seen on here putting all the blame on his is pathetic, He come into a toxic club, with no board, no direction, an owner who is clueless and dangerous to our very existence, points deducted, and you want to sack the only man who is doing what he can to keep us up. All the complaints i have seen above should be aimed at the 11 idle tossers who cross the white line every match. He might not have peps mind set, he can not make them play like city, they play a basic style of football, because they are very basic players.

Do you not think he would get rid of most of them if he had a chance.

Everything you are talking about is all about confidence and repetition.   The only thing that Dyche repeats are soundbites and failed selections and tactics.  He took them to portugal and admitted working on nothing new

My view is because of the very predictable nature of dyche it would be very easy to find trends.... so let's go to his sacking at Burnley and look for the similarities to what we may be seeing now:- 

1. he was sacked at Burnley for 14 wins in 68 prem matches - 1 in 4 and lost 50% of those games.  For us this season he has lost just under half the games and is averaging 1 win in 3.5 games.  In the 12 prem games of 2024 he has 1 win in 12 and lost almost half the games.  Sackable.

2. Burnley fans views: - here some snippets... pretty scary

"The problem was that Dyche was steadfastly repeating the same mistakes.  I’m all for letting a player play himself back into form, but both Ashley Westwood and Dwight McNeil got an enormous amount of leeway. No matter how badly it wasn’t working, and it didn’t take much to see that it the Burnley midfield had massive great holes in it where some semblance of creativity should have been, change was not coming."

"Tactically, the team were relying on the same old approach, keep disciplined, organised and make up for a lack of quality by outworking your opponent in 1 on 1 battles.  That’s a perfectly fine concept, except anyone is going to cotton on it by the sixth consecutive season.  There was no surprise element and clubs that had been previously upset by the Clarets were fully prepared to minimise their own problems this time around. Dyche had few answers, either in his toolbox or in the squad."

"The problem is that Chris Wood has gone and tactically, we’re treating his replacement as a taller, Dutch Chris Wood.  This is despite him clearly being far, far more effective with the ball passed to his feet.  Dyche’s insistence on lumping it up to the Big Guy was absolutely detrimental to the team.  It’s all well and good to moan about a lack of goals from Weghorst, but he has had absolutely no quality service from anywhere in the midfield."

"Dyche continually preached about “small margins” and there is no denying that Burnley have been on the wrong side of those small margins."

58 minutes ago, Zoo 2.0 said:

He wasn't good enough and they're a club in and around the Champions League places. Football is a business and they do business well, much better than us sadly. 

His off field issues were not known until his interview with Gary Neville. Spurs were right to move him on, 100%.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-9280415/amp/England-international-Premier-League-star-hooked-sleeping-pills.html

this story was in 2021  one year before joining us.  The "unknown" players teammates knew.... you honestly don't think the club didn't?

the managers know absolutely everything as the clubs have spies everywhere. 

spurs got him on sleeping tablets - he even said their doctors gave them him to help with sleep after evening games. 

Spurs absolutely knew about their £100m rated asset - levy does not move on players that Real Madrid were looking at for £20m max on the drip unless he knew what we do now. 

3 hours ago, Palfy said:

I look at our remaining games and with probably misplaced expectations / optimism I believe we will stay up, but then I think about Dyche who’s he going to pick, what’s he going to do tactically, and how are the players going to respond to those tactics and it fills me with fear. 
We have players that are equally as good or not better on paper than quite a few teams in the league, but we play the ugliest style of football in the league it’s shockingly embarrassing to watch and for a majority of our players must be soul destroying to play week in week out, yet the one thing that sets us apart from these other teams and there is no doubt that we unequivocally have the worst manager in the league. 
For those of you who live in and around the city you won’t hear what other fans think of our football you will only hear the shite from the shite fan’s and the wtf going on between the Evertonian’s, you need to try living and working where I am and listen on a daily basis to what supporters who know you are an Everton fan have to say, yes there is plenty of sympathy from the wider footballing community, Everton are a very much respected club with supporters around the country. 
But what these fans rival supporters say about our manager and our style of football is heart wrenching to hear and there’s no argument you can have with them because they are fucking right, and it’s basically we are shit because our manager is shit. 
Yet there are so many Evertonian’s who sucked in by Dyche and his 18 months of talking a good job, because they are cocooned in this small environment of Liverpool and don’t hear what the rest of the country and their fans think of us, the useless fucker is getting away with turning us week by week into the worst team in the league and the worst team I can remember in my 57 years of supporting this club, and this story he relentlessly goes on about every week that we need to change and he needs to change, will only change when the worst manager ever to set foot in this club is shown the door, and only then can we start along the long road to building a better future on the pitch. 

I know like many fans I have said "you bust a gut for the shirt and the fans even if you hate the manager"

looking at it properly - if you are miserable in your job then that's a considerable amount of time that you feel like crap regardless of how much you are getting paid. You are gonna be unmotivated, lack confidence, doing your role with fear.

thats what I see in our players, its the reason why you get new manager bounces. 

when Burnley sacked Dyche many of us were delighted cos we thought he was the only reason they were in the league.  The reality was far different, their fans were made up, the players responded to a man with no managerial experience and they nearly survived.  

When dyche was sacked they were 4 points off safety on 24 points with 8 to play - 0.8 ppg.  Jackson won manager of the month and returned 1.4 ppg. 

i'm not saying Mike Jackson is a great manager - what I'm saying is that a bloke who got sacked from Tranmere got more from their players than Dyche. 

3 hours ago, Matt said:

Pretty sure that could be challenged legally. The transfer is linked to the contract, the contract is no longer active. Regardless, considering the state of affairs, £10m for him isn't any more of a gamble than the frees and loans.

I just think spurs are pretty scummy in this. 
 

the lad was broken, he has praised us for looking after him. What did spurs do??? Flogged him. 

9 hours ago, Btay said:

It’s a dirty move but I have no doubt it’s something the top 6 would do but 777 own Genoa. Say Genoa sign him on a 2 yr deal & then loaned him to us for 2 years, we would be exempt to pay the 10 mil. Probably never do a deal with spurs again though.

Excellent point.  Genoa sign him on a free then sell him to Everton for £1. 
 

would that allow us to make a huge asset on the books? 

7 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

It's not acceptance of average at all, it's realising that reality is reality. And the reality is for us that we're pretty shit and that it's going to take a long time to improve to the extent that we challenge for anything remotely looking like success.

We're nowhere near chasing success currently but what I want us to chase is progress. That means finishing at least one place further up the league every season, possibly getting through to a further round in each cup (possibly because knock-out competitions are hard thing to get through).

What it doesn't mean is getting irate because the team isn't challenging for titles/cups all because we won a league in 1987. Times change. You have to realise where you currently are and where you want to get to. But it takes time and you need to have a bit of perspective.

Now, that does not mean that I don't want to get back to what we once were. Nil Satis Nisi Optimum means a hell of a lot to me, I have it tattooed on my skin. Nothing but the best is good enough is a fantastic motto to follow and we absolutely should live by it, but 'the best' doesn't really mean actually being the best of all. It means being the best you can be and the best we can be is not the best of all.

We need to learn to walk again before we can run.

I wasn't talking about now on in.  I was talking about how people allowed standards to drop from when we were up there.... people downplaying expectations.   

"Penknives to gunfights". "7th place is great for a club like Everton"  -  fans should never allow that.

the reality is we won't be anywhere near the top for a while now cos the club has been destroyed from within whilst people called protestors kopites. 

12 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

That’s more Shukes’ domain if the Gomes thread is anything to go by. 

The inflatable Gomes could partner the real Gomes in midfield and offer more than Onana.  
 

shukes - are you happy to give him a clean and send him to Dyche? 

10 minutes ago, Newty82 said:

But there has to be a sense of reality and context too, doesn't there?

We've flirted with relegation 3 years in a row. To finish 7th next season would be a great season!

If, as we've seen, the man who gets us 7th, then has a wobble for a period the next season, and gets sacked...we'll not see any progress.

We were multiple league winners 40 years ago.

We've won one cup in 30 years.

So the 'accepting' 7th comes from being pretty shit for the vast majority of the last 30 odd years.

I could walk into a room full of rich fuckers and pretend I drive a Ferrari. But at some point I have to accept the reality of where I am...(I only don't drive a Ferrari because the roads in Cumbria are shit ).

I'm not talking about 7th place from 16th.  I'm talking about 7th place from a team that's won leagues. 

the culture of our club will never be right when we have people who actually say "good season" for top half finishes. you can be quietly content that you are moving in the right direction but only if you know that measures and actions are being taken to get the next level.

I've witnessed the decline and how we got there. Acceptance of average is the problem 

1 minute ago, Matt said:

Not sure it's a matter of accepting less, at least not for me. It's a matter of accepting the current and being patient enough to allow change to take place and that's not something we, collectively, as fans have been good at nor has our "owner" because we all want, rightly, for things to improve dramatically in a very short space of time. But with each chop and change it creates more instability and friction.

I don't blame fans being annoyed but the short levels of patience can have for change projects that have a 3-5 year plan isnt helping. 

It would take a very long graph for me to plot the timelines of errors, missed opportunities and the various subtleties that have got us to where we are. 

the immediate trajectory change was the European ban - can't blame anyone at the club for that. It was a huge trajectory changer but none the less we won the league in 1986-1987 and we did have opportunities to stay in the pack.  1989 onwards to 1995 was doldrums but the gap wasn't huge and was recoverable. 
 

the biggest correction opportunity we had was Rooney and the kings dock site. Kenwright absolutely destroyed it. Tried to flog Rooney to Chelsea without Rooney knowing and created the sale to man United cos Rooney was fuming. Kings dock... well let's just say we would be regular top 4 and trophy winners now.  We would have been snapped up and had huge investment. 

3 hours ago, patto said:

Ian Croll of the echo pointing the finger at the Portugal incident the slap he called it he thinks Dyche has lost the dressing room.

I said at the time this was a serious incident but some on here seemed to think it was banter or it was a simple tap on the head or it didn't happen because no 1 came forward well I'll say again it was serious and regardless of results Dyche has got to go if not now definitely in the summer.

"Lardy dardy dah nothing to see here, probably didn't happen" .......

manager slaps a player in front of others "man up!",  "You need to work with real men, that's how it is". 

nah.... the position of a manager is one of the most difficult to maintain cos you are never off duty when the people under you are in your presence, you are being watched and judged all the time. 

you wanna demand timeliness, being called "gaffer", maximum effort, respect, the adherence to your instructions - you better make sure you are impeccable.

you do not put your hands on a player. A popular lad at that. It's not done.

in my criticism of dyche i had to actually justify why I wasn't a snowflake to people who are usually very woke.  Ive always been a man's man in what is old money - I teach my kids "someone hits you - you do the same back and I'll deal with the fallout"

Dyche should have been disciplined because as far as I'm concerned Patterson was well in his rights to stand up and give him a slap back.  Obviously 6ft2 alpha male Dyche would have no doubt given him a good hiding and tried to clear the air "at the bar with a beer to forget about it" 

the top and bottom is that he had to apologise in front of the team after being told he's out of order by Tarkowski.   The balance of power was taken away there and then. 

54 minutes ago, Matt said:

If we got 2 seasons of 10th, the fans will be complaining why we're not 6th. We always want better but we're often too impatient. Fingers crossed that comes true from next season though!

That's human nature.

the reason our club has ended up where it is is mainly due to 7th place being touted as a great season.

how did we get there from being multiple league winners? It's dilution of expectations. 
 

as soon as you accept less you are plotting the descent 

9 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

It didn’t come across as likely to be a comeback with Everton tbh. 

I think he was indicating that there is stuff to unravel regards him staying at Everton.   My feeling is that there is contract grey areas regarding the 10 games = £10m and I don't know what this looks like.

spurs should have waived the ridiculous agreement - not because it's unfair on us but because they have a duty to their ex player.  They essentially watched him decline and got shut - they seen Everton as "we buy any car" and flogged a rolls royce that needed extensive work.

He comes across as a very nice lad.  I'd love to see him get fit and and make his comeback with us. 
 

1 minute ago, Matt said:

I get that, its the obvious thing. But why would he be flying earlier in the season and shit after his injury. I'm not convinced he was singled out, like with Ancelotti, under Lampard.

But then, I will always try and find the positive, there's enough shit going on at the moment. Playing with injury is a more tangible reason in my eyes.

Cos he got his one year extension around the time he was injured. 
 

seen many players put their feet up once they get a nice extension.