Hafnia

9 hours ago, Btay said:

It’s a dirty move but I have no doubt it’s something the top 6 would do but 777 own Genoa. Say Genoa sign him on a 2 yr deal & then loaned him to us for 2 years, we would be exempt to pay the 10 mil. Probably never do a deal with spurs again though.

Excellent point.  Genoa sign him on a free then sell him to Everton for £1. 
 

would that allow us to make a huge asset on the books? 

7 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

It's not acceptance of average at all, it's realising that reality is reality. And the reality is for us that we're pretty shit and that it's going to take a long time to improve to the extent that we challenge for anything remotely looking like success.

We're nowhere near chasing success currently but what I want us to chase is progress. That means finishing at least one place further up the league every season, possibly getting through to a further round in each cup (possibly because knock-out competitions are hard thing to get through).

What it doesn't mean is getting irate because the team isn't challenging for titles/cups all because we won a league in 1987. Times change. You have to realise where you currently are and where you want to get to. But it takes time and you need to have a bit of perspective.

Now, that does not mean that I don't want to get back to what we once were. Nil Satis Nisi Optimum means a hell of a lot to me, I have it tattooed on my skin. Nothing but the best is good enough is a fantastic motto to follow and we absolutely should live by it, but 'the best' doesn't really mean actually being the best of all. It means being the best you can be and the best we can be is not the best of all.

We need to learn to walk again before we can run.

I wasn't talking about now on in.  I was talking about how people allowed standards to drop from when we were up there.... people downplaying expectations.   

"Penknives to gunfights". "7th place is great for a club like Everton"  -  fans should never allow that.

the reality is we won't be anywhere near the top for a while now cos the club has been destroyed from within whilst people called protestors kopites. 

12 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

That’s more Shukes’ domain if the Gomes thread is anything to go by. 

The inflatable Gomes could partner the real Gomes in midfield and offer more than Onana.  
 

shukes - are you happy to give him a clean and send him to Dyche? 

10 minutes ago, Newty82 said:

But there has to be a sense of reality and context too, doesn't there?

We've flirted with relegation 3 years in a row. To finish 7th next season would be a great season!

If, as we've seen, the man who gets us 7th, then has a wobble for a period the next season, and gets sacked...we'll not see any progress.

We were multiple league winners 40 years ago.

We've won one cup in 30 years.

So the 'accepting' 7th comes from being pretty shit for the vast majority of the last 30 odd years.

I could walk into a room full of rich fuckers and pretend I drive a Ferrari. But at some point I have to accept the reality of where I am...(I only don't drive a Ferrari because the roads in Cumbria are shit ).

I'm not talking about 7th place from 16th.  I'm talking about 7th place from a team that's won leagues. 

the culture of our club will never be right when we have people who actually say "good season" for top half finishes. you can be quietly content that you are moving in the right direction but only if you know that measures and actions are being taken to get the next level.

I've witnessed the decline and how we got there. Acceptance of average is the problem 

1 minute ago, Matt said:

Not sure it's a matter of accepting less, at least not for me. It's a matter of accepting the current and being patient enough to allow change to take place and that's not something we, collectively, as fans have been good at nor has our "owner" because we all want, rightly, for things to improve dramatically in a very short space of time. But with each chop and change it creates more instability and friction.

I don't blame fans being annoyed but the short levels of patience can have for change projects that have a 3-5 year plan isnt helping. 

It would take a very long graph for me to plot the timelines of errors, missed opportunities and the various subtleties that have got us to where we are. 

the immediate trajectory change was the European ban - can't blame anyone at the club for that. It was a huge trajectory changer but none the less we won the league in 1986-1987 and we did have opportunities to stay in the pack.  1989 onwards to 1995 was doldrums but the gap wasn't huge and was recoverable. 
 

the biggest correction opportunity we had was Rooney and the kings dock site. Kenwright absolutely destroyed it. Tried to flog Rooney to Chelsea without Rooney knowing and created the sale to man United cos Rooney was fuming. Kings dock... well let's just say we would be regular top 4 and trophy winners now.  We would have been snapped up and had huge investment. 

3 hours ago, patto said:

Ian Croll of the echo pointing the finger at the Portugal incident the slap he called it he thinks Dyche has lost the dressing room.

I said at the time this was a serious incident but some on here seemed to think it was banter or it was a simple tap on the head or it didn't happen because no 1 came forward well I'll say again it was serious and regardless of results Dyche has got to go if not now definitely in the summer.

"Lardy dardy dah nothing to see here, probably didn't happen" .......

manager slaps a player in front of others "man up!",  "You need to work with real men, that's how it is". 

nah.... the position of a manager is one of the most difficult to maintain cos you are never off duty when the people under you are in your presence, you are being watched and judged all the time. 

you wanna demand timeliness, being called "gaffer", maximum effort, respect, the adherence to your instructions - you better make sure you are impeccable.

you do not put your hands on a player. A popular lad at that. It's not done.

in my criticism of dyche i had to actually justify why I wasn't a snowflake to people who are usually very woke.  Ive always been a man's man in what is old money - I teach my kids "someone hits you - you do the same back and I'll deal with the fallout"

Dyche should have been disciplined because as far as I'm concerned Patterson was well in his rights to stand up and give him a slap back.  Obviously 6ft2 alpha male Dyche would have no doubt given him a good hiding and tried to clear the air "at the bar with a beer to forget about it" 

the top and bottom is that he had to apologise in front of the team after being told he's out of order by Tarkowski.   The balance of power was taken away there and then. 

54 minutes ago, Matt said:

If we got 2 seasons of 10th, the fans will be complaining why we're not 6th. We always want better but we're often too impatient. Fingers crossed that comes true from next season though!

That's human nature.

the reason our club has ended up where it is is mainly due to 7th place being touted as a great season.

how did we get there from being multiple league winners? It's dilution of expectations. 
 

as soon as you accept less you are plotting the descent 

9 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

It didn’t come across as likely to be a comeback with Everton tbh. 

I think he was indicating that there is stuff to unravel regards him staying at Everton.   My feeling is that there is contract grey areas regarding the 10 games = £10m and I don't know what this looks like.

spurs should have waived the ridiculous agreement - not because it's unfair on us but because they have a duty to their ex player.  They essentially watched him decline and got shut - they seen Everton as "we buy any car" and flogged a rolls royce that needed extensive work.

He comes across as a very nice lad.  I'd love to see him get fit and and make his comeback with us. 
 

1 minute ago, Matt said:

I get that, its the obvious thing. But why would he be flying earlier in the season and shit after his injury. I'm not convinced he was singled out, like with Ancelotti, under Lampard.

But then, I will always try and find the positive, there's enough shit going on at the moment. Playing with injury is a more tangible reason in my eyes.

Cos he got his one year extension around the time he was injured. 
 

seen many players put their feet up once they get a nice extension. 

1 hour ago, Matt said:

Pretty sure he's still injured watching him. But we're so desperate for any attacking link-up play between midfield and attack that he's only in because of that and its detrimental. 

I just think he's a mercenary.  I wasn't a Lampard fan but the way he downed tools under Lampard was disgusting. 

The one thing that's consistent about Doucoure is that when he downs tools - he really downs tools. 

Got his £130k a week extended for a year back in November..... not seen a performance from him since. 
 

I expect him to be sat on a footy in the warmup on Sunday. 

10 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

I had to laugh at Dyche throwing the lad to the wolves tonight and then him being saved from it by picking up an injury.

Then I grimaced at the thought that it probably means we'll be watching Godfrey and Young renew their partnership at the weekend.

No one will convince me that what went on in Portugal hasn't destroyed this team.

"oh yeah it's a slap on the back of the head, just a joke everyone blowing it out of proportion"

it was clear that Dyche didn't fancy the lad, regardless - you do not smack/slap a player on the back of the head.

i will repeat the same question - would Dyche do the same to a big Dunc character?  - no chance.  Why? - cos a no nonsense bloke would get up and chin you for doing it. 
 

Dyche doing that has basically insulted Patterson in front of his teammates - watch any podcast on YouTube with ex players, they do not take disrespect lightly. A manager putting himself in a situation where he has to apologise to players in front of others is the end..... it's game over. 
 

he never had anywhere near enough credit in the bank to get away with this.

Get all the stat trendy fifa fan boys telling us he's gonna be class.

no he's not. He lacks integrity as a footballer, at 23 he's acting like he's paul pogba.  Sums up everything that's wrong with our club. Highly unlikeable player. 

23 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

Got to start him on Sunday. Scandalous that he was dropped for Onana tonight.

Yep. Gomes didn't deserve dropping 

17 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

Nah, he's not for me.

Bad prick him.  I seen a fan leg on the Highbury pitch and try and swap shirts for less than what this wage thief has done the past few appearances. 
 

disgusting.  Get rid asap 

He blamed Onana and garner in the middle tonight - Onana I could understand.  But Ashley young of course escaped criticism. 
 

he needs to go 

58 minutes ago, dunlopp9987 said:

Well...we do need to do a talent search in order to sack the manager because...well I don't think I need to spell it out

We don't.   its abundantly clear the manager has lost the players. 
 

these players could probably get the points we need with caretaker managers like Baines/rooney/carsley. 
 

1 minute ago, dunlopp9987 said:

Those two have.... nothing to do with each other?

Not sure what that means..... I'll be clear

dyches performance warrants a sacking - no excuses, absolutely unacceptable. 

we don't need to do a talent search of the market in order to decide that the manager should be sacked - his record dictates that. 

Just now, dunlopp9987 said:

If you're gonna call for his head, I'd love to hear who you think would a) do a better job but more importantly b) even want to take on this dumpster fire of a job!

wasn't aware we need to review c.v's to decide the current managers shite 
 

Baines caretaker manager.  Simple as that. 

8 minutes ago, dunlopp9987 said:

Who we bringin in, Palf? 

Is Palf director of football now? Blimey congrats Palfy! 

7 minutes ago, dunlopp9987 said:

We won 4 league games before the deduction. Where you gettin your facts from, Haf?? Or I guess more importantly, what are you smoking?? 

Yes it was 4 wins over 12 then we got the points deduction and got 4 in 4..... so why did you think the points deduction was the read-on for our downturn? It clearly wasn't 
 

fact of the matter is this - we've got a one dimensional dinosaur in charge and other managers adapt and tweak to negate what other managers do.   What does dyche do????  Repeat the same nonsense. 

14 minutes ago, dunlopp9987 said:

After the 3 losses to start the season, we went 8-2-3 before the deduction. Playing good football, scoring lots of goals.

Deduction happens and we lose to United but then win 4 in a row before the Fulham loss in the cup.

We were inevitably going to hit a rough patch of form, but because of the points deduction, it was compounded and made everything more tense than it should have been.

So you're saying we were playing like shit before the deduction?

I honestly think you are taking the piss and trolling. We won 2 league games before the deduction including a loss at home to Luton.

what are you smoking?!

we are getting dicked by a team that drew 2-2 with sheff United. 
 

the manager is an utter fraud, the pantomime in Portugal is everything I thought it would be. His reaction to it smacked of an arrogant man who thinks he's unsackable.

the performance vs Burnley was the prequel to this shit show. Hope you enjoyed it and continue to back this clown of a manager 

4 minutes ago, dunlopp9987 said:

Congrats. Take the deductions away and who knows how this team could've been performing.

We got the deductions and went on a winning spree - so no .... talking nonsense there. 

clearly trying to get a rise here, this is abject.  Worst football I've seen as an Everton fan of 40 years.  

so take your congrats and tell me I'm lying? 

2 minutes ago, badaids said:

A bit of perspective.  Tonight's performance is one of the worst I've ever seen us have.

But out fate is still in our own hands, all the other teams around us are their own versions of shit too. We can still avoid the drop with another couple of winds, though its hard to see where they come from on a night like this.

I said it after Burnley. If we stay up it's in spite of Dyche. 
 

Statistically our "blip" was the 3 wins going into December ...... the rest has been an absolute disgrace.