Sunderland (Away)

[chicagoblue]

Ouch. Well we deserved that.

[Memmaclub]

Moyes hasn't a clue to drop yak and bring in Saha the freench scum bag is the most useless tosser I have ever seen

[Wall Writer]

I don't know what the Fuck Moyes is thinking but for fuck's sake make a positive change.

[bluemonkey]

yakubu and beckford coming on, genuinely surprised moyes isnt bringing on hibbert for heitinga!

[rubecula]

Yak and Beckford on Saha and heitinga off

[Wall Writer]

YEY! at fucking last, with a whopping 8 minutes to go.. unbelieveable!

[rubecula]

Arteta get in

[ftaylor]

Micky is no way in my good graces after that goal

[Bailey]

Arteta has still been fucking shite despite the goal. It was a terrible shot anyway...

 

Now lets fucking win this thing... DONT SIT BACK

[Mogsy]

Well fuck me I take it all back about Arteta! Lol!!

[Wall Writer]

I dont' believe it.. does fuck all, al match and gets a lucky deflection. Moyes is a genius... I would have left Heits on ;|

[coxy051]

thank fuck for that

[chicagoblue]

How did he miss? Should have stolen that game.

[rubecula]

Poo, Hot steaming and smelly poo. That was poo.

 

Did I mention it was a poo result?

[coxy051]

fuckinell how he miss that beckford! hate watching us play now so frustrating

[joemac92]

Beckford? That. Was. DIRE.

[marcopaulo]

thought arteta was alright in that second half looked to go forward a bit more(again after he moved to the wing for a bit..is it time for him to go back there?) he got a goal and shit shot or not he looked to shoot instead of pass it about like some of the other idiots on the edge of the box...beckford last minute should have buried that...and their goal was about 2 yards offside!!

[LexKing]

Another draw. Another point from away. And im still so fucking pissed off. If Saha starts next game, Moysie should start to look new job somewhere else. He was surfing around winning nothing whole the time he was on. And Mikel. Yes, it was his shot wich was deflected into the net. SO WHAT. He was so fookin useless 89minutes of the game. ANd he should be our engine on the middle of the pitch. Rest him, pls . Give him time to find a focus on his game again.

 

Edit. And yes, i dont know either why becks did put it over at last seconds of overtime.

Edited November 22, 2010 by LexKing

[Wall Writer]

Same old story... All the football, no end product, all the football, yet let them score. Arteta - you're not forgiven for that display just because you flukely saved us a point; your were awful today - in fact you cost us two points! Becks and Yakubu should have been brought on sooner, not with just 8 minutes to go, ffs Moyes. Pienaar - don't know whether he's playing to get away (ie. playing well to get a good offer from somewhere know that world knows he's probably leaving on a free)- but he's been, probably, our best player recently. Worked his sock off again.

 

Sick of seeing the same old shit, but us getting a point out of it and then it doesn't seem so bad. The fact of the matter is we're not playing well enough, and some players, I feel, are not pulling their weight.

 

 

On a light hearted note: Funny to see Moyes collapse when Beckford missed that last chance.

[Hafnia]

Awful. Seriously, I don't think moyes has a strategy, totally clueless in his tactics, keeps heitinga on for 80 minutes with a yellow card? Rodwell playing on the right, should have moved arteta there. That miss at the end??? A goalscorer scores them.

[Kohen]

Awful. Seriously, I don't think moyes has a strategy, totally clueless in his tactics, keeps heitinga on for 80 minutes with a yellow card? Rodwell playing on the right, should have moved arteta there. That miss at the end??? A goalscorer scores them.

 

Not sure about that.

 

Bit disappointed but 1 is better than 0 :/

[Blue 250]

What a strange game!......Sunderland off the back of that Chelsea win and with great home form, surely this was never going to be an easy game!

 

We were three players down, with Arteta, Jonny and louis not really showing up.Yet still we played the better football and Cahill had two off the line.

 

Sunderland are big strong and direct and that gave us problems, but saying that the defence did quite well considering the poor games from Arteta and Jonny in front of them.

 

Pretty sure Felleini and Rodwell in their places and a "big, strong, direct, free scoring forward up front with Cahill on that form behind him and we would have won tonight and would be top 4!

 

2-2 was probably the right result in hind-sight.

 

mom between I'd say.....cahill, pienaar and Baines.

[GoodisonRoad]

Awful. Seriously, I don't think moyes has a strategy, totally clueless in his tactics, keeps heitinga on for 80 minutes with a yellow card? Rodwell playing on the right, should have moved arteta there. That miss at the end??? A goalscorer scores them.

 

Im with you on that one, he used to be a decent winger for us, so why not put him out there again from time to time? Rodwell is supposed to be a centre back/Mid he has no attributes whatsoever of a winger.

Also think the main reason Arteta was so bad today was that he was playing so deep! in the first half Heitinga was playing further forward than he was, Pienaar had to go over and have a word! although his touch and passing was like that of a school boy at times.

Edited November 22, 2010 by GoodisonRoad

[Bailey]

Well that was fucking shite... I probably would have taken a draw, so in that respect Im not too upset BUT I am fucking fuming at the performance of certain players and that fuck wit we have as a manager.

 

Iv already mentioned in here about the Arteta/Heitinga roles, they are completely wrong and while it doesnt excuse them sloppy play you cant squeeze the round pegs into the sqaure pegs at the highest level with out it causing problems. Heitinga has to cover the back 4. Neither him or Arteta were doing that. Arteta looked like he was meant to, but he isnt strong enough in that area to do the job properly especially when the other team are breaking forward. So many times Heitinga was the one highest up the pitch and trying to get forward. Its wrong and neither look comfortable. They both also need to move a bit more. They stand there side by side and the CBs lump it forward.

 

Howard was solid. Not too confident with his punching but it was always clear.

 

baines was very godd. Did get abit caught on both goals so maybe should cop some stick but he was probably our best player aside from that.

 

Distin & Jags were solid. Offered no protection most of the game and also rarely offered a simple ball out, hence the many hoofs. Distin was a bit too depp for the first, which lets Welbeck in. Small mistake but cost us nethertheless.

 

Neville was solid but just looped the ball in the air so many times, when balls were on. Not everytime but simply hoofing it up in the air, down the line isnt good enough. Especially not when we are in their half.

 

Heitinga was very poor first half. He got much better in the second half imo, offering more protection and getting the ball down and playing confident passes. Wasnt the worse player on the pitch, but isnt being played in a way that suits him.

 

Arteta was fucking shocking. Passing, tackling, movement, everything just piss poor. His shooting was also piss poor but the ball found the net. Having said that we did look better as a team when he was getting forward, being an extra man in and around the box. SHould be well and truly dropped.

 

Pienaar worked his nuts off. Yet again not too much final ball but the way he breaks up play and starts attacks is first class. He gets my MOTM for being the whole middle and left of our midfield in the first half. I really want him to stay.

 

Coleman didnt really deserve to be subbed. He isnt brilliant skill wise but if he makes mistakes he wins it back and he always wants go forward. I get the feeling he is being restricted in that respect at times. Possibly managerial instructions?

 

Cahill did well. Very little service, no help from Saha but kept plugging away. Probably should also be MOTM. I might change by the time I get to that thread.

 

Saha was also piss poor. He keeps dropping into the same space as Cahill meaning we have 2 players deep and no-one trying to get in behind. Second half to be fair to him, there were more signs of it but not enough. He was easily knocked off the ball and never held it up as far as I can remember. Genuinly shocked he started ahead of Yakubu.

 

Rodwell was started on the right which is one of the stupidest things I have ever fucking seen. Moyes, Round and whichever fuckwit thinks this is a good idea should be sacked. What is the thinking? Why take off Coleman when Arteta is having as poorer game as he ever has. We will always be held back and never reach our potential if we have these decisions being made.

 

Yak & Beckford did well when coming on. They got no service but they tried getting into space, tried running behind plays, dropping off, looking for the ball. Beckfords chance was a real glorius chance and maybe if he had been playing more regularly then he would have slotted it in. Yak also got through with his chance as well.

 

Biggest culprit is Moyes. He is really pissing me off now. Not learning, not seeing obvious changes and he is fucking up our prospects. Yes certain players should bear some of the brunt but if you balls up the foundations then the house can come crashing down. At times Sunderland ran through our central midfield. We didnt attack through it, we didnt defend through it. Yet we didnt make a change. Something as simple as getting Heitina to guard the central channel, and stop Saha dropping back further than Cahill. Rodwell on the wing is another fuck up and waiting for the last 10 to make changes isnt good enough. If Moyes left now I wouldnt be dissapointed, for me its not good enough anymore. I expect much better. End of.

[Matt]

Well that was fucking shite... I probably would have taken a draw, so in that respect Im not too upset BUT I am fucking fuming at the performance of certain players and that fuck wit we have as a manager.

 

Biggest culprit is Moyes. He is really pissing me off now. Not learning, not seeing obvious changes and he is fucking up our prospects. Yes certain players should bear some of the brunt but if you balls up the foundations then the house can come crashing down. At times Sunderland ran through our central midfield. We didnt attack through it, we didnt defend through it. Yet we didnt make a change. Something as simple as getting Heitina to guard the central channel, and stop Saha dropping back further than Cahill. Rodwell on the wing is another fuck up and waiting for the last 10 to make changes isnt good enough. If Moyes left now I wouldnt be dissapointed, for me its not good enough anymore. I expect much better. End of.

 

I agree with pretty much everything except him not being good enough anymore, hes just had a (nother) bad game but we still got a point in a tough place to go. But last night was the 1st time ive really doubted him, seriously thought he was just high, its the only thing i can think of that explains some of the decisions made.

 

Just a little other point, Saha was getting bugger all service last night so no wonder he was dropping off. Everything was aimed through Cahill so im not surprised he man marked Skippy on occasion, he wanted the ball. That being said, Yak and Beckford have to start together, they look like they could be very exciting. Drop Arteta, despite his flukey goal (which is why he wont be dropped, Moyes' arguement is that he keeps getting important goals, and he does) and play 442 (4312 if you include Skippy). Something has to change and it needs to be an aggressive, attacking change.

[carlmc25]

If Saha starts for us ever again I think I'm going to lose it. SERIOUSLY. He's a useless lazy donkey who can't win a header, hold a ball up or make a run. We're aiming everything at Cahill because when it goes in Saha's direction he doesn't win it, and he's about 5 inches bigger than Cahill. Pathetic again.

 

As for saying it was disgraceful etc, the only thing that was disgraceful was the fact that Saha played and the fact that we didn't win. We were playing away from home against an in form team and aside from 20 mins after we scored the first goal we totally dominated and I think we easily deserved to win the game. Why we sat off after we scored I've no idea. Pienaar was sensational again, three matches in a row now he has been electric. Arteta is totally cheesing me off, that being said who's fault is it - his or Moyes? He is actually sitting deeper than Heitinga which makes absolutely no sense. Heitinga is much better defensively and Arteta much better going forward, it's a total joke. Arteta, as per a fair few of the games this season, suddenly starts to go forward in the last 15 minutes and all of a sudden things happen. He sets Pienaar up for a good chance, he scores a goal, he looks dangerous. At the end of the day he has the talent, he's a fantastic footballer who needs to be in and around their box picking passes and putting in crosses and shooting, yet it's as if Moyes has told him to sit in front of the defence and bring the ball out from the back so we don't play the long ball anymore. It is a total waste of his ability. I don't know if it's Moyes decision or whether Arteta has taken it on himself to sit back but it's absolutely crazy tactics.

 

I thought we played really well last night, if Yakubu had have been up front we would have easily won, the problem is Saha is absolutely abysmal. In the 80 mins he was on I can't remember him making any meaningful contribution, ok Beckford missed the chance but at least he made the run to get on it, at least Yakubu shrugged someone off and had a shot on goal. It is so frustrating as we have totally outplayed Blackpool, Bolton and Sunderland and come away with only 3 points. We've been the better team in virtually every match this season yet we're 14th, we should be in the top 4. Unfortunately, again, we're leaving ourselves too much to catch up. I have no doubt we'll get back into the top 8, but really the league is poor and we should be in the top 4/5. We may have done too much damage to get up there now and then the likes of Pienaar will leave and we'll struggle to replace him.

 

Moyes you buffoon, drop Saha, play Arteta as an attacking midfielder (and if he doesn't perform get Rodwell in there) and stick with Yakubu.

[Bailey]

I agree with pretty much everything except him not being good enough anymore, hes just had a (nother) bad game but we still got a point in a tough place to go. But last night was the 1st time ive really doubted him, seriously thought he was just high, its the only thing i can think of that explains some of the decisions made.

 

Just a little other point, Saha was getting bugger all service last night so no wonder he was dropping off. Everything was aimed through Cahill so im not surprised he man marked Skippy on occasion, he wanted the ball. That being said, Yak and Beckford have to start together, they look like they could be very exciting. Drop Arteta, despite his flukey goal (which is why he wont be dropped, Moyes' arguement is that he keeps getting important goals, and he does) and play 442 (4312 if you include Skippy). Something has to change and it needs to be an aggressive, attacking change.

 

The only reason I say he should go is because he makes the same fundamental mistakes over and over again. Its the first time I have really thought it tbh.

 

Yeh I agree in principle with the Saha point but when he did drop deep he still didnt do anything. Cahill got the same service and did 20x better. He just has to be disciplined and stay forward. Look at the beckford chance as an example. Saha would have been 20 yards deeper, yet we had becks there and Yakubu about 5 yards behind. Admittedly different circumstances but the point is still valid.

 

As I said at points in the second half he did play off the shoulder, he made some decent runs and we played higher up the pitch because of it. If he had more service from the likes of Arteta then maybe he wouldnt have had to drop so deep but he does it time and time again. If he plays alongside another striker then its not a bad move, but alongside Cahill is a different story and we are inviting pressure onto ourselves.

[Romey 1878]

Are we trying to recreate the film Groundhog Day? That was just the same shit, different day. Im fucking sick of it. We take the lead and then sit back and let Sunderland pound us until they inevitably score. We don't look solid enough at the back to sit on a one goal lead, I would have thought that'd be evident to Moyes and the players by now. We dominate the game posession wise but there's far too much sideways and backwards passing to make that dominance count for anything, again. Stupid mistakes let us down, again. We can't put the ball in the back of the net even though we created enough chances to win more than one game. We were the better side overall and come away with a point.

 

This may seem like an out there idea for Moyes, but we need to change things if we want to do anything this season. First off, stop fucking playing Saha as the lone striker, he's not right for that role. End of story. Yak is the PERFECT lone stiker for absolute fucks sake, so play the man. He makes the whole team play better! How Moyes can't see this is fucking beyond me. Seeing the ball constantly come back at us because Saha failed to hold the ball up and win the header actually made a little bit of me die inside last night. Secondly, either drop Arteta altogether or send him out with the order to fucking attack and not sit deep and play like a fucking pussy. Thirdly, either play Heitinga in defence or not at all.

 

Last night has seriously made me question Moyes. How can he think Saha should be starting after Yak was starting to find form? How can he justify waiting so long to get Saha off and bring Yak and Beckford on? How can he be happy with Arteta sitting so deep? Why do we only go for it when all looks lost? Why not actually go for the win when it's there to be had? Moyes may not be a loser but he's not a winner. Not in any way, shape or form. Im sick to fucking death of this season already.

 

 

 

Howard - He didn't look comfortable with the aerial balls but he was mostly solid.

 

 

Neville - His constant lofted balls had me on the verge of slitting my wrists but his all round play was fairly decent.

 

 

Jagielka - His hoofing was bloody annoying, but he covered for Distin on a couple of occasions and he got in quite a few blocks.

 

 

Distin - WTF was he doing for their first goal? He did well with most of the aerial balls that came his way though.

 

 

Baines - I thought he had a really good game going forward for us, as is typical of him, but his defensive play was pretty average and his defending for their first goal was terrible so I couldn't even think about him for MOTM.

 

 

Coleman - Fair play to him for never giving up and to keep trying things, because not much actually came off for him.

 

 

Arteta - It's a good job he scored because other than that he was a complete non-entity last night. At least he's stopped taking the set pieces.

 

 

Heitinga - It's time to stop playing him as a midfielder, or at least stop playing him as the more advanced central midfielder that he seems to be being deployed as. Play him as a DM because he's more comfortable in that position and he'll have more time on the ball that way, playing as the more advanced of our two central midfielders is giving him less time on the ball because it's more congested and he's not coping with that at all.

 

 

Pienaar - A typical Pienaar performance tbh. Worked hard, always looking for the ball, always trying things without much of it actually amounting to anything. I didn't even consider him for MOTM because of the schoolboy shit he pulled in the build up to their first goal.

 

 

Cahill - Christ, he was doing the job of two strikers last night playing alongside that useless lump Saha. He was everywhere for us, he ran himself into the ground. Won header after header, but the thick Saha was very rarely on the same page and the headers usually fell to no one and Sunderland mopped it up. Took his goal very well and even towards the end of the game when he was moved back into midfield he was still busting a gut at every opportunity. My MOTM.

 

 

Saha - Not only is he a waste of a place in the starting 11 right now, he's also a waste of fucking oxygen. I've defended him in the past but he looks totally disinterested atm, and he's hindering our play big time. Drop him. Please.

[marcopaulo]

arteta looked good for a 5 minute spell yesterday when he seemed to move onto the wing and actually went forward...i've said it before and i will say it again...is it time to try him back out there? what would people think to that? stick pienaar in his role..i know it is breaking up the baines pienaar partnership but pienaar looks to go forward which is what arteta should be doing and only seems to when he is on the wing..it couldn't make him any worse anyways and with an outlet like baines overlapping it would almost force him to play it forward! of all the criticisms of him lately too at least he looked to shoot when he scored and it was lucky but other players fuck about far too much sometimes on the edge of the area when they should just have a pop! it doesn't forgive him for shit form but i'm not totally convinced it's all him..we all know how negative moyes is and these tactics could be shackling mikky and forcing him to sit back and play it sideways? i just want the arteta of 3 years ago back on the wing with his short burts of pace and beautiful crossing!

 

as for heitinga the sooner felli is back and playing week in week out the better..the guy gets booked in the first 10 then makes himself ineffective for the remaining 80

[Bailey]

arteta looked good for a 5 minute spell yesterday when he seemed to move onto the wing and actually went forward...i've said it before and i will say it again...is it time to try him back out there? what would people think to that? stick pienaar in his role..i know it is breaking up the baines pienaar partnership but pienaar looks to go forward which is what arteta should be doing and only seems to when he is on the wing..it couldn't make him any worse anyways and with an outlet like baines overlapping it would almost force him to play it forward! of all the criticisms of him lately too at least he looked to shoot when he scored and it was lucky but other players fuck about far too much sometimes on the edge of the area when they should just have a pop! it doesn't forgive him for shit form but i'm not totally convinced it's all him..we all know how negative moyes is and these tactics could be shackling mikky and forcing him to sit back and play it sideways? i just want the arteta of 3 years ago back on the wing with his short burts of pace and beautiful crossing!

 

as for heitinga the sooner felli is back and playing week in week out the better..the guy gets booked in the first 10 then makes himself ineffective for the remaining 80

 

I personally wouldnt chuck him back there. Yesterday I would have thought about it when Rodwell came on as he clearly isnt a right winger and Arteta can play there but in general no. I think you have a slight selective memory with regards to Arteta on the wing, as from what I remember he did a couple of quality things but a lot of the time he was completely ineffectual. We need to play Arteta in an advanced role, like he did for a couple of small spells yesterday where he looked interested but not on the wing imo.

 

Im also gunna stick up for Heitinga. Remember how poor Felli looked playing as the advanced one of the 2 central midfielders. Imagine how well Makelele would look in that position? They need to play deeper, plug the channels & break up the play. By playing deeper they get more time on the ball and they look up the pitch instead of playing facing our own goal. I personally dont think Heitinga has enough movement for a DM, unlike Felli and Makelele who always look for the ball, but at the end of the day he is a CB.