Man Utd

[marcopaulo]

good effort

[Wall Writer]

So much for us having nothing to losing and having a go.

[MikeO]

Two injury time goals again and we're sorted .

[Ian C]

Moyesey time

[marcopaulo]

walton can fuck right off though..

[Hafnia]

That's what happens when you turn up looking for a point. Did we have a go?! Don't make me laugh. Is that an inflatable muscle suit that victor wears? Spends more time on the floor than any player I've seen. Cahill miles off pace. Badly need a striker for next season.

[Wall Writer]

I know it's difficult with the side we got (or rather we've not got considering injuries), but how many times have we seen it that we just sit back and try to defend against these teams (Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea), and they will always punish you, the only way you can beat these teams is by having a go at them and trying to attack and play in their half. Wasn't expecting a win, but after holding on for 80 odd minutes, and having at least one penalty claim, I thought maybe we could scrape a draw.

[Matt]

set out to lose that one and lo! we lost.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

That's what happens when you turn up looking for a point. Did we have a go?! Don't make me laugh. Is that an inflatable muscle suit that victor wears? Spends more time on the floor than any player I've seen. Cahill miles off pace. Badly need a striker for next season.

 

 

I thought Cahill played well when he came on and while I am not a fan of Big Vic he was a vast improvement on Beckford

 

He is really starting to piss me off the way he refuses to challenge the CB at all and his first touch was very poor today

[Hafnia]

I thought Cahill played well when he came on and while I am not a fan of Big Vic he was a vast improvement on Beckford

 

He is really starting to piss me off the way he refuses to challenge the CB at all and his first touch was very poor today

 

Yep Cahill was very much up and at em, but needs a reserve game or two. Beckfords second touch is a tackle and needs work. Vic should be a better player than he is. The frame and pace is there, his touch is poor, simple as.

 

Jags and Tim were brilliant. Didn't deserve to be on losing team. Special note for Hernandez - what a buy he is. One of those would do us.

[Finn balor]

If i was davey i would be on the phone now trying to get a buyer for bily. I wouldnt play him ever again the lad is an embarrasment. so lightweight and slow its untrue.

[Hafnia]

If i was davey i would be on the phone now trying to get a buyer for bily. I wouldnt play him ever again the lad is an embarrasment. so lightweight and slow its untrue.

 

No heart whatsoever. Disgrace. Be lucky to get £5m for him.

[Bill]

If i was davey i would be on the phone now trying to get a buyer for bily. I wouldnt play him ever again the lad is an embarrasment. so lightweight and slow its untrue.

 

Yeah he's never disproved what i first thought of him when we bought him.

Even the match commentator yesterday was saying Everton are playing with ten men, Bily has brought nothing to the game and should be subbed , peeps are not usually as scathing as that so it shows how bad he really was.

[marcopaulo]

he's so grim as a winger...should have started with gueye and coleman on the wings..at least then we'd have had some kind of outlet and a chance to run at their defence cos evans and o'shea are shit i think and we really let them have an easy day

[Romey 1878]

I had to laugh when before the game Moyes said we were going to attack United, it was never going to happen and we didn't even get close to giving it a go. Whether it was Moyes or the players or both that bottled it is another story.

 

The funny thing is that this was our best opportunity for a very long time to actually get a victory at Old Trafford or at least a draw, because United are not a team to be feared any more IMO and we have the players more than capable of getting a result against them, but we well and truly blew it because we were too negative and played for a point right from the off which just played into United's hands. Instead of putting them under pressure they were allowed leisurely stroke the ball around. We should have looked to dominate the midfield because what they had out there was fairly weak. But instead we backed off, barely put any tackles in, were too happy to pointlessly pass the ball around in silly situations meaning United invariably closed us down and took the ball from us with ease which meant our ball retention was piss poor. Beckford had no support and can't play the lone striker role very well anyway so our shitty hoof and hope for something meant the ball was constantly coming back at us. The gap between our midfield and striker was alaring. You could have parked a 747 in it. And when we did have the ball we were so slow it was untrue, and the lack of movement from anyone was embarrassing.

 

It's not about losing to United that pisses me off, it's the way we lost (with a whimper). I think we could all have taken the loss if we'd had a go, but we played for a point and lost anyway because we had no plan B. I don't know about anyone else but I'd rather lose after going for the win than lose when we've barely tried. If anyone says that "but it might have worked, so it was worth it", we've tried the same thing at Old Trafford for years now and it hasn't.

 

Is it Moyes that doesn't believe his players are good enough or is it that the players don't have belief in themselves? Either way, Moyes has to do something. Whether that's changing his own mindset or doing something to make the players believe they're good enough to play with the big boys.

 

 

 

Howard - Made some great saves to keep us in the game, he's one of very few who can hold their heads high after that. My MOTM.

 

 

Hibbert - He had a fairly good game but I thought he was one of the ones at fault for letting Hernandez in for the header.

 

 

Jagielka - I thought he was terrible in the first half and Distin carried him. On at least to occasions the ball was comfortably his and instead of going and taking the ball he backed away and let the United player have it. Also, one ball by United tied him in knots and he completely lost his man. Thankfully, he was back to being solid in the second half and put in a brilliant defensive performance.

 

 

Distin - He would have been my MOTM if not for his costly mistake which led to them scoring. Before that he'd been solid as rock and had for the most part carried our defence.

 

 

Baines - Couldn't really get forward because of the shitness of Bily infront of him and our crap tactics. I don't think he dealt particularly well with Valencia either.

 

 

Coleman - Barely made a forward run. That's about all I've got to say about him tbh.

 

 

Rodwell - Another anonymous performance from him. I really won't be bothered if we sell him any more, he's gone backwards. He doesn't really contribute going forward and he's useless defensively.

 

 

Neville - I didn't think he played the DM role at all well in this game. He gave the United midfield and forward players all the time in the world to pass it around us when he should've been the one harrying them and putting them under pressure when they had the ball.

 

 

Bilyaletdinov - Absolutely woeful. There's not a single positive to be taken from his 45 minute showing. I think that's the worst I've ever seen him play and he's put in some shockers in his time here.

 

 

Osman - Way below par for Ossie yesterday. He was wasteful in possession and provided absolutely no support for Beckford which he had been doing brilliantly for the past couple of months.

 

 

Beckford - I almost felt sorry for him because of the zero support he had but that is no excuse for not even bothering to challenge the United defenders. Fair enough he was having a tough time with not much to work with but effort is still required.

[Guest blueboy122]

I was so pissed off when Bily came off, he was having a fantastic game! Scarred the united defenders to death! He was a class apart from anyone on that pitch and moyes hauls him off?

[The Beard]

I have to agree with almost everything Romey has said in his post. Spot on with all the analysis. I would have taken a three nil defeat if it meant we had a go but it was such a negative display that we probably didn't deserve anything from it. Osman was below his standards but he was asked to play in about three different positions during the game, which probably affected his overall contribution. Bily, well people have said enough but that was surely the most ineffectual contribution by a single player in the history of the Premiership, totally awful.

Edited April 24, 2011 by The Beard

[Hafnia]

Didn't know which thread to put this but.... Just had a pint with Graeme sharpe. Great fella. Great evertonian. True gent.

[MikeO]

Didn't know which thread to put this but.... Just had a pint with Graeme sharpe. Great fella. Great evertonian. True gent.

Nice one.

[rubecula]

Didn't know which thread to put this but.... Just had a pint with Graeme sharpe. Great fella. Great evertonian. True gent.

 

A lot taller close up than he used to look on the pitch too I thought. But yes he really seems a decent guy.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

I had to laugh when before the game Moyes said we were going to attack United, it was never going to happen and we didn't even get close to giving it a go. Whether it was Moyes or the players or both that bottled it is another story.

 

The funny thing is that this was our best opportunity for a very long time to actually get a victory at Old Trafford or at least a draw, because United are not a team to be feared any more IMO and we have the players more than capable of getting a result against them, but we well and truly blew it because we were too negative and played for a point right from the off which just played into United's hands. Instead of putting them under pressure they were allowed leisurely stroke the ball around. We should have looked to dominate the midfield because what they had out there was fairly weak. But instead we backed off, barely put any tackles in, were too happy to pointlessly pass the ball around in silly situations meaning United invariably closed us down and took the ball from us with ease which meant our ball retention was piss poor. Beckford had no support and can't play the lone striker role very well anyway so our shitty hoof and hope for something meant the ball was constantly coming back at us. The gap between our midfield and striker was alaring. You could have parked a 747 in it. And when we did have the ball we were so slow it was untrue, and the lack of movement from anyone was embarrassing.

 

It's not about losing to United that pisses me off, it's the way we lost (with a whimper). I think we could all have taken the loss if we'd had a go, but we played for a point and lost anyway because we had no plan B. I don't know about anyone else but I'd rather lose after going for the win than lose when we've barely tried. If anyone says that "but it might have worked, so it was worth it", we've tried the same thing at Old Trafford for years now and it hasn't.

 

Is it Moyes that doesn't believe his players are good enough or is it that the players don't have belief in themselves? Either way, Moyes has to do something. Whether that's changing his own mindset or doing something to make the players believe they're good enough to play with the big boys.

 

 

 

Howard - Made some great saves to keep us in the game, he's one of very few who can hold their heads high after that. My MOTM.

 

 

Hibbert - He had a fairly good game but I thought he was one of the ones at fault for letting Hernandez in for the header.

 

 

Jagielka - I thought he was terrible in the first half and Distin carried him. On at least to occasions the ball was comfortably his and instead of going and taking the ball he backed away and let the United player have it. Also, one ball by United tied him in knots and he completely lost his man. Thankfully, he was back to being solid in the second half and put in a brilliant defensive performance.

 

 

Distin - He would have been my MOTM if not for his costly mistake which led to them scoring. Before that he'd been solid as rock and had for the most part carried our defence.

 

 

Baines - Couldn't really get forward because of the shitness of Bily infront of him and our crap tactics. I don't think he dealt particularly well with Valencia either.

 

 

Coleman - Barely made a forward run. That's about all I've got to say about him tbh.

 

 

Rodwell - Another anonymous performance from him. I really won't be bothered if we sell him any more, he's gone backwards. He doesn't really contribute going forward and he's useless defensively.

 

 

Neville - I didn't think he played the DM role at all well in this game. He gave the United midfield and forward players all the time in the world to pass it around us when he should've been the one harrying them and putting them under pressure when they had the ball.

 

 

Bilyaletdinov - Absolutely woeful. There's not a single positive to be taken from his 45 minute showing. I think that's the worst I've ever seen him play and he's put in some shockers in his time here.

 

 

Osman - Way below par for Ossie yesterday. He was wasteful in possession and provided absolutely no support for Beckford which he had been doing brilliantly for the past couple of months.

 

 

Beckford - I almost felt sorry for him because of the zero support he had but that is no excuse for not even bothering to challenge the United defenders. Fair enough he was having a tough time with not much to work with but effort is still required.

 

 

 

Whilst I think you pretty much got your analysis spot on I dont see how you can say it was our best chance of getting a result at Old Trafford for years. We took a depleted squad to the home of the best team in the country who depserately needed the points as the Championship race draws to a conclusion. They have just had two poor results and I was expecting a back lash, and we got one

 

I also thought your critisiscm of Jags was a bit harsh again. He made some crucial tackles and interceptions in the first half and he is the one who marshalls the back four and he does it superbly. I really dont know what more you expect him to do. Ok at times he is prone to a bit of hoofball but he has always done that including in the second half when you seem to think his game was spot on so just a little confused as to why you think he was poor in the first half

 

One thing I do agree 100% with you on is Beckfords performance, it is really pissing me off the way he never challenges the centre back. I wouldnt mind if he didnt win one challenge all game but he could at least put the defender under a bit of pressure.

[Romey 1878]

Whilst I think you pretty much got your analysis spot on I dont see how you can say it was our best chance of getting a result at Old Trafford for years. We took a depleted squad to the home of the best team in the country who depserately needed the points as the Championship race draws to a conclusion. They have just had two poor results and I was expecting a back lash, and we got one

 

I also thought your critisiscm of Jags was a bit harsh again. He made some crucial tackles and interceptions in the first half and he is the one who marshalls the back four and he does it superbly. I really dont know what more you expect him to do. Ok at times he is prone to a bit of hoofball but he has always done that including in the second half when you seem to think his game was spot on so just a little confused as to why you think he was poor in the first half

 

It was our best chance to get a result there because we were in good form, so should have been brimming with confidence, and they're not a side to be feared any more (also mentioned in my post), and especially when you consider the side they ended up putting out. We should have looked at that starting 11 and thought to ourselves "do you know what? We can do this, we've got the players to match this lot". But instead we handed the game to them, again.

 

It's explained next to Jagielka's name why I thought he had a bad first half and there's no mention of hoofball.

[Hafnia]

Let's just say sharpie didn't mince his words about two individual performances. He is very much the same thinking as we are, lack of effort is unforgivable.

 

I personally now think we should sell beckford. For me his attitude is not what is required to play for everton. He behaves in a way that he thinks he has now made it, where IMO he should be looking to develop and learn. Possibly get £4m for him.

 

To repeat a previous point, Hernandez is absolute quality. £6m is a steal for him. He is the perfect partner for Rooney and they bring out the best in each other. To see him interpret for Anderson after one year in England shows you alot about his character.

[Romey 1878]

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/everton-fc/everton-fc-news/2011/04/25/david-prentice-key-to-ending-everton-fc-s-old-trafford-hoodoo-try-turning-up-for-a-start-100252-28577686/

[Matt]

Let's just say sharpie didn't mince his words about two individual performances. He is very much the same thinking as we are, lack of effort is unforgivable.

 

I personally now think we should sell beckford. For me his attitude is not what is required to play for everton. He behaves in a way that he thinks he has now made it, where IMO he should be looking to develop and learn. Possibly get £4m for him.

 

To repeat a previous point, Hernandez is absolute quality. £6m is a steal for him. He is the perfect partner for Rooney and they bring out the best in each other. To see him interpret for Anderson after one year in England shows you alot about his character.

 

Sell our leading goal scorer, someone who has more goals to minutes than most in the premiership?

 

He isnt a loan striker, he isnt strong enough to muscle people of the ball but put him up there with someone of strength (Vellios) and watch him become as good as he can be. If we are going to sell anyone, it should be Vic, talk about someone who thinks theyve made it....

[carlmc25]

Sell our leading goal scorer, someone who has more goals to minutes than most in the premiership?

 

He isnt a loan striker, he isnt strong enough to muscle people of the ball but put him up there with someone of strength (Vellios) and watch him become as good as he can be. If we are going to sell anyone, it should be Vic, talk about someone who thinks theyve made it....

Surely he isn't our leading scorer? I thought Cahill was banging them in earlier in the season but I could be wrong...? Also, goals to minutes is a little misleading, he's hardly finished a game he's started because he keeps getting subbed due to his zero effort.

 

He gets a fair few chances, that I will say for him, but he misses too many, he's got an attitude problem and he just isn't very good - personally he's a sub at best imo. Anichebe has gone backwards this year, although personally I thought he was VERY unlucky not to get a penalty on Saturday, if he hadn't slightly overrun the ball I think it was a stonewall. That was the type of play he is capable of - strength, direct running, power etc, unfortunately there hasn't been enough of it this season. That being said, he has every physical attribute a top class forward needs so personally I'd hang on to him and hope that he starts to deliver at some point as if he does, he'll be virtually unstoppable.

 

I personally thought the mistake at the weekend was bringing Cahill on, he looked well off it to me and all he did was give the ball away.

 

I'll get in on the Jags thing as well, I thought he was absolutely magnificent on Saturday, an absolutely Dave Watson-esque masterclass in defending, throwing himself in front of things, getting last ditch tackles in, he was brilliant and I always have total confidence when anything goes down his side. Distin had a good game but once again a poor error of judgement cost us. He messed up at least twice for their goal imo.

 

A shout for Howard as well, another fantastic performance from - in my opinion, our best keeper since Southall.

 

Apart from that we were pretty poor, for some unknown reason we looked tired and played it as if it was a pre season friendly (defence aside) particularly in the first half. How we missed someone like Arteta, someone who can actually show some composure and class. Rodwell was once again Captain Safe, decent shot which he nearly scored from but apart from that, anonymous as usual. Osman worked hard but unfortunately, against good teams he needs a little help and with the injuries we have, there is little help available from the rest of the midfielders we have available - except for possibly Coleman who was inexplicably quiet.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

It was our best chance to get a result there because we were in good form, so should have been brimming with confidence, and they're not a side to be feared any more (also mentioned in my post), and especially when you consider the side they ended up putting out. We should have looked at that starting 11 and thought to ourselves "do you know what? We can do this, we've got the players to match this lot". But instead we handed the game to them, again.

It's explained next to Jagielka's name why I thought he had a bad first half and there's no mention of hoofball.

 

 

Either way I think you are being extremely unfair on him.

 

I know its all about opinions and obviously you are entitled to yours but at the game the general consensus was that he had a blinder. I know sometimes that people who watch it on the box tend to have a different perspective than people at the match but the majority of the people in here also either voted him as MotM or a close second, he has since received plenty of plaudits in the media and the manager and his team mates have all commented on what a great game he had. So he must have been doing something right

[Matt]

Surely he isn't our leading scorer? I thought Cahill was banging them in earlier in the season but I could be wrong...? Also, goals to minutes is a little misleading, he's hardly finished a game he's started because he keeps getting subbed due to his zero effort.

 

He gets a fair few chances, that I will say for him, but he misses too many, he's got an attitude problem and he just isn't very good - personally he's a sub at best imo. Anichebe has gone backwards this year, although personally I thought he was VERY unlucky not to get a penalty on Saturday, if he hadn't slightly overrun the ball I think it was a stonewall. That was the type of play he is capable of - strength, direct running, power etc, unfortunately there hasn't been enough of it this season. That being said, he has every physical attribute a top class forward needs so personally I'd hang on to him and hope that he starts to deliver at some point as if he does, he'll be virtually unstoppable.

 

I personally thought the mistake at the weekend was bringing Cahill on, he looked well off it to me and all he did was give the ball away.

 

I'll get in on the Jags thing as well, I thought he was absolutely magnificent on Saturday, an absolutely Dave Watson-esque masterclass in defending, throwing himself in front of things, getting last ditch tackles in, he was brilliant and I always have total confidence when anything goes down his side. Distin had a good game but once again a poor error of judgement cost us. He messed up at least twice for their goal imo.

 

A shout for Howard as well, another fantastic performance from - in my opinion, our best keeper since Southall.

 

Apart from that we were pretty poor, for some unknown reason we looked tired and played it as if it was a pre season friendly (defence aside) particularly in the first half. How we missed someone like Arteta, someone who can actually show some composure and class. Rodwell was once again Captain Safe, decent shot which he nearly scored from but apart from that, anonymous as usual. Osman worked hard but unfortunately, against good teams he needs a little help and with the injuries we have, there is little help available from the rest of the midfielders we have available - except for possibly Coleman who was inexplicably quiet.

http://news.bbc.co.u...ton/default.stm

 

Look a little further down and you can see Saha has 1 more than him due to FA cup goals but equal in league goals. The fact he misses so many is annoying but at least he has a shot!!! This is his 1st season in the premiership and he's still getting to grips with it. Hell, I'll quote the Echo again (from before the Utd game):

 

 

For a 26-year-old coming to terms with his first experience of top flight football, a return of seven Premier League goals in 26 appearances is respectable.

But that figure doesn’t take into account anything like the actual time Beckford has spent on a football pitch this season.

The recent visit of Aston Villa was the first time he has actually completed 90 minutes in a Premier League match.

He has figured in exactly 1,018 minutes of top flight football – and has returned a goal every 145 minutes.

That’s enormously impressive.

To put it into some perspective, it’s a return only Didier Drogba, Robin van Persie and Carlos Tevez can top.

And it’s a better record than Wayne Rooney, Andy Carroll, Kenwynne Jones, Asamoah Gyan, Peter Odemwingie and Fernando Torres (although even Tony Hibbert can match the sulky Spaniard for goals scored over the last 12 games)

 

 

So I ask again, why get rid of him?

 

as for Vic... he has embodied all the bad points of the Yak; lazy, strong but cant stay on his feet, goes down far too easy (though it was a pen on Saturday). Plus, he cant score!!!

Edited April 26, 2011 by Matt

[Romey 1878]

Either way I think you are being extremely unfair on him.

 

I know its all about opinions and obviously you are entitled to yours but at the game the general consensus was that he had a blinder. I know sometimes that people who watch it on the box tend to have a different perspective than people at the match but the majority of the people in here also either voted him as MotM or a close second, he has since received plenty of plaudits in the media and the manager and his team mates have all commented on what a great game he had. So he must have been doing something right

 

 

Christ, I didn't say he'd had a bad game, I said he'd had a bad first bloody half but was very solid in the second half.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Christ, I didn't say he'd had a bad game, I said he'd had a bad first bloody half but was very solid in the second half.

 

 

 

Im well aware of what you said and that is the point Im disputing