The Blue Union respond

[StevO]

avin, the whole thing is not about winning trophies, its about staying in business.

 

please read up on BU. you will agree with most of their thought (maybe not their followers thoughts though) as you seem to be saying similar things.

[Avinalaff]

avin, the whole thing is not about winning trophies, its about staying in business.

 

please read up on BU. you will agree with most of their thought (maybe not their followers thoughts though) as you seem to be saying similar things.

 

Staying in business has many guises Steve. Because different parties want the same thing does not make them allies. What makes them allies is agreeing how best to achieve it.

[StevO]

the only guise i consider is that the club are there on a match day with 11 players on the pitch.

[Avinalaff]

the only guise i consider is that the club are there on a match day with 11 players on the pitch.

 

Me too.

[Romey 1878]

http://www.sos1878.co.uk/everton-fans/from-the-heart-the-blue-union/

[pete0]

http://www.sos1878.c...the-blue-union/

Yawn fest now, say one thing do another. If the board get fed up and sell us to chicken farmers they're gonna be fully to blame. Absolute idiots.

[Hafnia]

http://www.sos1878.c...the-blue-union/

 

I quite enjoyed reading that. I think that the piece emphasises what they are about and challenges the 'mindless, boorish' tag that many feel they can tag to the B.U.

 

Of course there are going to be members who make ridiculous posts on the facebook page which unfortunately clouds many a sensible and well constructed post.

 

A few snippets from that piece that stand out for me are:

 

We are only human and we are learning as we are going along. We don’t claim to know it all, we don’t claim to represent the majority, but we try to tell it how it is, and when we do get bits of information, we like to pass it on (without revealing any sources of course), and we judge our actions and words on the information we have, the information that is out there and of course how the club is performing.

 

is protesting something only kopites do? Only last week we could see Blackburn supporters protesting against their manager. Wolves fans protesting against theirs. Man United fans famously wore green and yellow scarves to protest against the Glaziers. Are they kopites too? And for those who can’t remember, we protested on the pitch against Johnson after the Coventry game in 1997. I don’t remember that being called kopite behaviour, so why is it now? We do what we do because we love the club. It has nothing to do with Liverpool or ‘kopite behaviour’.

 

The reasons for the campaign are obvious and have been stated. Quite simply we believe this board has had its chance. The 24/7 search for investment, the collapsed stadium deals, the FSF, the NTL deal and the lies to gain votes for Kirkby have constantly been repeated and are well known. The new issues only make us more determined to fight the fight. We as a group, have always felt that investors have been interested in buying Everton but didn’t follow that through for whatever reason (the CEO confirmed this to us, even though Bill told us there is nobody out there as he has heard there is no money in the world).

An argument thrown at us has been ‘If people have been interested, why haven’t they come out and said then?’. Well the answer lies in Robert Elstone’s latest blog where he states in respect to interested parties ‘we respect the confidentiality agreements which prevent either side from disclosing the interest’. Therefore, we will never know who has been interested and why they didn’t follow through.

[Hafnia]

Yawn fest now, say one thing do another. If the board get fed up and sell us to chicken farmers they're gonna be fully to blame. Absolute idiots.

 

Which is why they state:

 

We are adamant in our aims that this board should appoint an autonomous group of professionals to oversee the sale of the club, who can sell the club to the right people, at the right price that is in the best interests of Everton Football Club, not a price that suits the board members and their shares.

[Avinalaff]

We have said ‘doing nothing’ is not an option anymore, and we 100% believe that is the case, so we will carry on the fight against the club.

 

Hmmm ... so you want to fight against the club?

 

 

Quite simply we believe this board has had its chance.

 

What? Like you own the club, and have given them a Saturday job in order to help them out?

 

Also, the Blue Union has always felt, and been under the impression, that the board want too much for their shares, which is a reason why we can’t sell.

 

The shares belong to them, so it's up to them what they want for them. Not you !

 

 

if you consider this board has sold off all Everton’s assets, and is a business losing £5m per year. And if they did somehow manage to sell at that price, each board member would make a big profit on their shares, for investing NOTHING into the club.

 

Sold off 'their' assets. If they make a profit, so what. That's business. Every business makes a profit or fails.

 

We are adamant in our aims that this board should appoint an autonomous group of professionals to oversee the sale of the club, who can sell the club to the right people, at the right price that is in the best interests of Everton Football Club, not a price that suits the board members and their shares.

 

The board members own Everton FC. It is their club. We seem to have a misunderstanding here that somehow the club belongs to 'you'.

 

 

We are just Evertonians, just fans who want change at their club. If that makes us ‘kopites’ in some people’s eyes, then so be it. Don’t worry what other people think though; this is YOUR club, and your chance to do something about it

 

Yes, you are 'just' Evertonians ... the only thing you have gotten right so far.

 

Actually, there you go again. No, it's not 'our' club. Unfortunately 'we' didn't buy shares. The club belongs to the board. The quicker you dumb f%^s get that into your thick head the quicker you might get listened to.

 

Being sentimental is great, but as much as we support a club, we don't have a say in it's financial affairs. We're fans. Nothing more.

 

Come down from your self elevated position, stop thinking you represent the fans (you don't) and stop telling the board what to do with 'their' club. Try 'asking' them, or at least try to help find a solution, instead of just causing problems.

 

 

 

[pete0]

 

Which is why they state:

 

We are adamant in our aims that this board should appoint an autonomous group of professionals to oversee the sale of the club, who can sell the club to the right people, at the right price that is in the best interests of Everton Football Club, not a price that suits the board members and their shares.

They had their chance on the street, and let themselves down. Anyone with enough time can get their wording all nice and polished, but actions speak louder than words, with chants of "Kenwright out" and a guy in a clown suit I think they proved who the real clowns are.

[StevO]

They had their chance on the street, and let themselves down. Anyone with enough time can get their wording all nice and polished, but actions speak louder than words, with chants of "Kenwright out" and a guy in a clown suit I think they proved who the real clowns are.

 

hey come on, give me a break. i came straight from work, didnt have time to get changed.

[Lowensda]

Have to agree with Av on this one! They (B.U) come across as if they have a right to decide what happens to the club?

 

It's like walking into McDonalds (its your favourite fast food venue) and making a group up to change the sauce in the big macs because you don't like it and then wanted to change the menu entirely based on your needs. Yet stil claiming because you enjoy the chain that much, you have a right to alter the way it runs....erm no you don't.

 

I understand they want change, which is fine but constantly stating that "the board are trying to 'making profit' on their shares, it's disgusting"...is a joke. Business men. Business men people. You wouldn't see Branson buying a load of shares, seeing the venture grow its profit margains and then selling at buying price. It's rediculous that people still can't see the business side of things.

[Avinalaff]

I don't know what the average fan spends on a football team Ten, but many of us spend hundreds of pounds each week at Asda, or the local petrol station, and so on. Far more than we do as football fans, and I wouldn't dream of telling Asda how to run their business.

 

They'd have far more of an impact on my life if they closed, than if Everton got relegated or worse, as my lifestyle would have to change, from buying food, to clothes, magazines, petrol, and all the chain events, such as feeding my family etc, yet I wouldn't picket outside telling the Asda board to get out.

 

Folk might frown at that comparison, but fans need to put things into perspective a little, and use their heads, and not their hearts.

 

Everton football club is a business. It's not just focused on the team, but the whole package, and it's roots are not just in football. It could close the stadium, sell the squad, and still operate as a business. It would probably make more money if it did just that as football appears to be a loss leader these days.

 

For patrons to tell the company directors to leave is quite unimaginable. If they screw up, they screw up. That's life, but they bought the club, and we didn't. It is theirs, not ours, regardless of this romantic notion that the club belongs to the fans.

 

I don't remember the ghost of St Domingo leaving it to us in a will.

 

To think they don't want what is best for their own business is just as comical. The problem lies with the industry the club trade in, and the rising costs. Anybody would think that there were queues of people wanting to buy, and invest billions, and the club were saying "Thanks, but we don't want to sell".

 

Kenwright is probably sick to death of Everton fans, and who can blame him. They saw change at Liverpool, and now think if they make enough noise, the same will happen here.

 

It might not, and Kenwright might sell the club to an oil sheikh, who quickly knocks the stadium down and puts an oil rig there instead. If you go to the theatre, you respect the theatre owner. If you go to the game, respect Kenwright. If you can't, don't go, because you are visiting 'his' home, not him yours.

[Hafnia]

Sports Club ownership is incomparable to any other commercial business. McDonalds being an example? OK. Do you get 10 year old kids with pictures of a bic mac on their walls, do they sulk and cry on a saturday if their nuggets were a let down? No they have no emotional attachment to it, if they aren't up to scratch they will give Burger King a try - no great shakes.

 

Football is a ridiculously passionate sport. The owners are and should be considered custodians.

 

As put by Hill-Wood (Arsenal)

:

"Custodian" was what directors and shareholders used to call themselves in the 100 years when buying into a club really did represent "dead money". Their responsibility – not always discharged with distinction – was to safeguard a club for its supporters, its town or city. Football's guardians said that the motivation, as Hill-Wood claimed four years ago, was opposite to wanting to make money."

 

Everton under current ownership has edged to financial ruin, the banks close to pulling the plug - are the current board safeguarding our club? Not in my opinion. We have sold assets that were originally acquired from previous owners (Bellefield - Moores for example) - in doing so we are still in a worse financial state than we were when Kenwright and co took control from Johnson.

[FanchesterCity]

Fans are the customer.

If enough fans want change, the business adapts or the customers go elsewhere.

 

Of course, football fans have the problem of not being able to go elsewhere (due to emotional attachment). This is why clubs get away with stuff, and to some extent abuse their privilege.

 

Fans don't have a right to change. But they do have a right to request it.

 

Ultimately though, fans have to make a choice too -

 

Do they stop going to games (in protest) or do they carry on?.

 

If they stop going, it hurts the club even more (but it registers protest in a highly tangible and effective manner). The hurt MIGHT be short term, in order to gain in the long term. But it might also be a nail in the coffin.

If they carry on going, then what incentive is their for the club to change? not much. You're effectively condoning it. If you keep eating the stuff that you say tastes crap, you're your own worst enemy.

 

Do you hurt the club short term, in the hope of making it better in the long term? (but at the risk that your plan doesn't work and it hurts the club long term too?)

Or do you just let the folks you believe aren't doing a good job carry on doing a good job.

 

If you REALLY believe they'll carry on doing a bad job, then to my mind, you have to stand by your convictions and stop going.

 

I expect a torrent of abuse for that view, but it's what I believe.

Edited November 14, 2011 by BlueSky

[Hafnia]

Fans are the customer.

If enough fans want change, the business adapts or the customers go elsewhere.

 

Of course, football fans have the problem of not being able to go elsewhere (due to emotional attachment). This is why clubs get away with stuff, and to some extent abuse their privilege.

 

Fans don't have a right to change. But they do have a right to request it.

 

Ultimately though, fans have to make a choice too -

 

Do they stop going to games (in protest) or do they carry on?.

 

If they stop going, it hurts the club even more (but it registers protest in a highly tangible and effective manner). The hurt MIGHT be short term, in order to gain in the long term. But it might also be a nail in the coffin.

If they carry on going, then what incentive is their for the club to change? not much. You're effectively condoning it. If you keep eating the stuff that you say tastes crap, you're your own worst enemy.

 

Do you hurt the club short term, in the hope of making it better in the long term? (but at the risk that your plan doesn't work and it hurts the club long term too?)

Or do you just let the folks you believe aren't doing a good job carry on doing a good job.

 

If you REALLY believe they'll carry on doing a bad job, then to my mind, you have to stand by your convictions and stop going.

 

I expect a torrent of abuse for that view, but it's what I believe.

 

 

I agree, I know of so many who have stopped going the match - are they less passionate than fans who go? No, they are merely exercising their right to make a choice. They are voting with their feet.

[Lowensda]

Then let them vote with their feet. Doesn't affect me directly. But like Av's said, it's there business. We have a right to request it, and the BU and other fans have, but by trying to get involved with business deals far more complex than just any old deal, the BU have to keep their noses out. It's not their business. Full Stop. If they don't like it piss off. They've made their statements and opinions heard, now there's not a lot else that you can do.

 

Sports Club ownership is incomparable to any other commercial business. McDonalds being an example? OK. Do you get 10 year old kids with pictures of a bic mac on their walls, do they sulk and cry on a saturday if their nuggets were a let down? No they have no emotional attachment to it, if they aren't up to scratch they will give Burger King a try - no great shakes.

 

Same could be said about some fans? Especially younger fans. They chop and change based on who's doing well but there are some people (die hard fans, if that's what you would like to call them) who would go nowhere but McDonlads. Who says some young Everton fans who have no 'emotional' ties to the club, haven't started supporting City or United?

[Avinalaff]

Fans are the customer.

If enough fans want change, the business adapts or the customers go elsewhere.

 

Of course, football fans have the problem of not being able to go elsewhere (due to emotional attachment). This is why clubs get away with stuff, and to some extent abuse their privilege.

 

Fans don't have a right to change. But they do have a right to request it.

 

Ultimately though, fans have to make a choice too -

 

Do they stop going to games (in protest) or do they carry on?.

 

If they stop going, it hurts the club even more (but it registers protest in a highly tangible and effective manner). The hurt MIGHT be short term, in order to gain in the long term. But it might also be a nail in the coffin.

If they carry on going, then what incentive is their for the club to change? not much. You're effectively condoning it. If you keep eating the stuff that you say tastes crap, you're your own worst enemy.

 

Do you hurt the club short term, in the hope of making it better in the long term? (but at the risk that your plan doesn't work and it hurts the club long term too?)

Or do you just let the folks you believe aren't doing a good job carry on doing a good job.

 

If you REALLY believe they'll carry on doing a bad job, then to my mind, you have to stand by your convictions and stop going.

 

I expect a torrent of abuse for that view, but it's what I believe.

 

You need to realise that fans are individuals, not groups. There are fans who go the matches, fans who don't. Fans who live in Liverpool and fans who don't even live in the UK. It's not just about match goers, and even if it was, the revenue they bring in for the club is only a percentage of the overall income.

 

Not all fans are anti Kenwright. It's a minority view as opposed to a majority one. The only people who will tell you it's a majority are the hate mobs, and most people don't want them at the ground anyway. It would probably increase turnover if they kicked them all out.

[SimonButtle]

As far as the price of shares and the club go, any prospective buyer gets a chance to look at the books first with a fine tooth comb, they will soon tell BK and the Board if the price is too high, simply buy making a lesser offer, or not offering at all. It's not up too the BU to decide how much things should be valued at.

[StevO]

 

You need to realise that fans are individuals, not groups. There are fans who go the matches, fans who don't. Fans who live in Liverpool and fans who don't even live in the UK. It's not just about match goers, and even if it was, the revenue they bring in for the club is only a percentage of the overall income.

 

Not all fans are anti Kenwright. It's a minority view as opposed to a majority one. The only people who will tell you it's a majority are the hate mobs, and most people don't want them at the ground anyway. It would probably increase turnover if they kicked them all out.

 

TUT TUT!!!

that is speculating.

[Avinalaff]

 

TUT TUT!!!

that is speculating.

 

Yeah, you're right Steve.

 

There is a possibility that most people 'will' want the hate mobs at the matches. Silly me.

[StevO]

 

Yeah, you're right Steve.

 

There is a possibility that most people 'will' want the hate mobs at the matches. Silly me.

 

come on avin, me and you go the game together with blazing torches and clubs with nails in them! i'll meet you at the wilmslow! we'll have a great time

[FanchesterCity]

That's not what I said or implied.

 

The 'stop going to games' is symbolic of 'not buying the product'. I'm hardly likely to say "stop going to games, but keep buying the shirts!".

 

I said - if fans truly don't believe in the product - stop going (or buying the product). Doesn't matter where in the world they are.

The only way for a fan to protest (other than petitions and lobby groups) is with their feet (or pocket). If you want to influence a business, stop giving them your money.

 

For the fans that are fine with the regime - let them carry on - it IS a personal choice.

 

I don't see anything in my post that 'I need to realise'.

Edited November 14, 2011 by BlueSky

[FanchesterCity]

As for the 'fans will go to other clubs' - existing fans can't easily do that. The emotional attachment is too great.

Young kids though? well - that's another story - they're influenced by the TV, who's winning at the moment, and their favourite stars etc etc. 90% of Merseyside will still end up choosing Red or Blue, but a few will look elsewhere.

 

But the future of the club isn't in those people, it's in the millions outside of Merseyside - in Asia, Middle East and Africa (and to a small extent USA). That's where the land grab for fans is all happening. THOSE fans will pick and choose far more easily based on popularity etc.

 

Back back on topic.

How else CAN a fan register protest? Chanting for someone's head? I suppose that would work eventually, if enough of them were of the same mind. But unless there's enough willing to do that (which I deplore), then I can only think of voting with your feet/pocket.

[Hafnia]

Football fans are diverse - why do some people classify the various elements and tag mentalities accordingly - majority minority whatever??? The blue union have categorically stated that for the 90 minutes they want full support for the team? Each person has their own opinion - the B.U is not a popularity contest.

 

Does that mean that only the B.U supporters are the hate mob? No - it doesn't, There are some fans who for whatever reason "like" Kenwright and may spend the best part of 90 minutes being the annoying moaning at every single misplaced pass, get on bily's back, give Saha stick etc. There may be fans who despise Kenwright but fully get behind the team for the 90 minutes.

[FanchesterCity]

I agree that liking BK is not the same as believing he's doing a good job, and is not the same as believing he's the best man for the job.

Conversely, you could have a guy you loathe, but is doing a great job.

 

I can't abide Ferguson (Alex) but does he do a good job - course he does (and some!).

I like Francis Lee but did he do a good job? No. He was a proven player, and proven businessman. Still made a mess.

 

Even cheering the team on has limits. If you think they 'club' are being unethical / dodgy / tossers (call it what you will) just because you like the product, doesn't mean you have to buy it!.

 

Sadly, most of us are hypocrites deep down. Addicts too.

We keep spending, We keep following, We keep moaning.

 

It ain't that bad if we keep doing all those things - and that's why the board always have an upper hand. They are they dealer, we are the junkies.

[Bailey]

Have to agree with Av on this one! They (B.U) come across as if they have a right to decide what happens to the club?

 

It's like walking into McDonalds (its your favourite fast food venue) and making a group up to change the sauce in the big macs because you don't like it and then wanted to change the menu entirely based on your needs. Yet stil claiming because you enjoy the chain that much, you have a right to alter the way it runs....erm no you don't.

 

I understand they want change, which is fine but constantly stating that "the board are trying to 'making profit' on their shares, it's disgusting"...is a joke. Business men. Business men people. You wouldn't see Branson buying a load of shares, seeing the venture grow its profit margains and then selling at buying price. It's rediculous that people still can't see the business side of things.

 

While I do agree with what you are saying, I think these 'businessmen' havent exactly been running the club the way it should have been over the past however many years. If these rough valuation that have been banded about are more or less correct, I cant help but personally feel that they are taking the piss a little bit. Its not like they have really earnt this money, as relatively speaking we are in a worse position off the field than we were when they took over. I would have thought that by now, they would have had enough of keeping hold of Everton, especially given the financial footing (as if we went bust then they would get Sweet FA), and it would probably also be in their interests to drop the price down a bit (its not like they cant afford a slightly reduced profit) and get a quicker sale.

 

With regards to Bill supposedly buying these shares, then it might well be one of the smartest decisions he has made at the club and it shows me that he might actually be business savvy after all! It is also the biggest indication to me that a sale could be imminant (sp?).

 

Finally, I will also add that football clubs arent like normal business and shouldnt be run like one either. Bang on about, Mcdonalds this and Asda that, but you dont see people walking around with Mcdonalds shirts on or Asda bedding and curtains, with signed pictures of Ronald Mcdonald hanging on the wall. We might not have a right to know the inner workings of the finances & its dealings, but we deserve to know that the club we all love and support is being run soundly and that the club will continue to have a future.

[FanchesterCity]

And therein lies the real crux of the problem in football...

 

The 'fan' isn't a typical consumer - he's an addict. He only want HIS football team, nothing else will do.

 

The owners (typically) are businessmen. They don't give a flying toss who's buying, or why. They only care that you keep buying. Yes they want success (it's nice to have), but it makes them money too.

 

We (the fans) aren't dealing with a fantasy vision of our clubs (who care about us). We all like to think the guys still have out interests at heart. It's bollocks,. They don't.

We're suckers. Plain and simple.

 

We (the fans) don't make help outselves either. We want more money to be spent on players, we want 'success'. We want a change of manager when it's not going well.

I'm talking in very general terms here, but just about Everton, but still, the principle applies to all clubs.

 

Almost all the riches in football come from us the fan. (with the exception of the very rare benefactor). Sponsorship? that's via us too. Firms don't advertise or sponsor for the fun of it, they need us to buy their products. Sky money? that's us too - Sky need our subscriptions.

 

WE are paying for it, Owners are 'managing it' (most badly) and we carry on tossing money at them.

[FanchesterCity]

You'd be hard pressed to find a shining example of a PL club that's 'well run' that you'd put forward as a model for a long term sustainable business. That is a shocking indictment for an industry that has such a huge market, and a league that is hailed as 'envy of the world'.

 

Quite shocking indeed.

[The Beard]

For what it's worth I'm marching on Saturday.